Downtown Attraction: USS Enterprise
April 20th, 2012 at 4:47:38 AM
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There are - or at least were - plans to build a full scale Enterprise downtown.
The Las Vegas Advisor Question Of The Day talks briefly about it. If you're not a member, you won't be able to read it after today.
Sadly, this is a report about a concept that was talked about in 1992, and is only now becoming public knowledge.
Fortunately, they link to the full story, which has no limitations. Check it out:
http://www.thegoddardgroup.com/blog/index.php/now-it-can-be-told-the-star-trek-attraction-that-almost-came-to-life-in-1992/
The Las Vegas Advisor Question Of The Day talks briefly about it. If you're not a member, you won't be able to read it after today.
Sadly, this is a report about a concept that was talked about in 1992, and is only now becoming public knowledge.
Fortunately, they link to the full story, which has no limitations. Check it out:
http://www.thegoddardgroup.com/blog/index.php/now-it-can-be-told-the-star-trek-attraction-that-almost-came-to-life-in-1992/
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
April 20th, 2012 at 6:21:54 AM
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While I would have loved to see this, I can't imagine how it could have been done, both correctly and profitably.
Since the downtown casinos were paying, one of the conditions was that whatever new attraction was built, it could not be a casino or hotel.
When I showed the article to my brother, he though the 'excuse' that the Paramount CEO gave for killing the idea is lame. I could not agree more.
But it got me thinking.
This concept was developed because the Strip was taking business away from downtown, and they were looking for a way to reverse that trend.
Nowadays, it is the entire Las Vegas area that needs to find a way to reverse the trend of business moving to the new casinos across the country.
I think the time is right to build this. But let be a self-contained hotel, casino resort.
Instead of a hotel's typical range of rooms with the best being the "Presidential Suite", there would be varying levels of "crew's quarters", "officer's quarters", and "The Captain's Quarters".
As a "decommissioned" starship, there's no need for a shuttle deck, so turn that area into the outdoor pool. There would still be an indoor pool, right where the original Enterprise bluprints, created in the 1970's, says there should be one. (I think I still own my copy...)
It's an idea....
Since the downtown casinos were paying, one of the conditions was that whatever new attraction was built, it could not be a casino or hotel.
When I showed the article to my brother, he though the 'excuse' that the Paramount CEO gave for killing the idea is lame. I could not agree more.
But it got me thinking.
This concept was developed because the Strip was taking business away from downtown, and they were looking for a way to reverse that trend.
Nowadays, it is the entire Las Vegas area that needs to find a way to reverse the trend of business moving to the new casinos across the country.
I think the time is right to build this. But let be a self-contained hotel, casino resort.
Instead of a hotel's typical range of rooms with the best being the "Presidential Suite", there would be varying levels of "crew's quarters", "officer's quarters", and "The Captain's Quarters".
As a "decommissioned" starship, there's no need for a shuttle deck, so turn that area into the outdoor pool. There would still be an indoor pool, right where the original Enterprise bluprints, created in the 1970's, says there should be one. (I think I still own my copy...)
It's an idea....
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
April 20th, 2012 at 7:17:02 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearWhile I would have loved to see this, I can't imagine how it could have been done, both correctly and profitably.
I don't think a replica Enterprise is a good idea for an attraction. And the article description of how the idea was kileld just doens't ring true. You don't get all of Downtown Vegas, the people developing the project, the money guys, and two thirds of the studio on the same side all fired up, and then meekly give up when the big PHB says "no." I just don't buy it.
Quote:I think the time is right to build this. But let be a self-contained hotel, casino resort.
I think 1992 was the time to build it. That was when the themed casino hotels were big and there was plenty of money to spend, and even some money to burn. Now money's tight and themeing is passe. Even Luxor is de-themeing, which is rather ridiculous considering it's a freaking, giant pyramid. Then, too, Star Trek is more or less in limbo, if not outright at the end of its run.
Not that I'd mind, personally. I just don't see it happening.
Now, if you were to do a science fiction theme park, then a replica Enterprise would fit right in. I've had some fantasies and daydreams about such a thing, with Trek rides, Star Wars rides, Star Gate rides, and even some more obscure, yet more spectacular ideas as well (like Niven's Integral Trees and the Ringworld. You know what I'd love to see? A replica Enterprise near a replica Star Destroyer :)
And there's a lot of empty land at the north end of the Strip... ;)
Quote:Instead of a hotel's typical range of rooms with the best being the "Presidential Suite", there would be varying levels of "crew's quarters", "officer's quarters", and "The Captain's Quarters".
Hmm, not a good idea. Have "Officer's Quarters" for the regular rooms and name the suites for Kirk, Picard, etc. Maybe a grand suite named "The Admiral's Suite." The palyers card can be coded as crew, officer, and captain. But calling a regular room the equivalent of third class is a bad idea, IMO.
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April 20th, 2012 at 7:17:26 AM
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Star Trek had it's run at the Hilton and it was good.
Imagine building a full scale Enterprise and letting people inside. Now imagine how you are going to evacuate that structure when the replicator makes the Earl Grey Tea too hot. The fantasy clashes with the reality in ways that are irreconcilable.
Imagine building a full scale Enterprise and letting people inside. Now imagine how you are going to evacuate that structure when the replicator makes the Earl Grey Tea too hot. The fantasy clashes with the reality in ways that are irreconcilable.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
April 20th, 2012 at 7:18:35 AM
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Quote: s2dbakerImagine building a full scale Enterprise and letting people inside. Now imagine how you are going to evacuate that structure when the replicator makes the Earl Grey Tea too hot. The fantasy clashes with the reality in ways that are irreconcilable.
Why do you think the ship has trasnporters? :P
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April 20th, 2012 at 7:34:47 AM
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Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life here.
"What, me worry?"
April 20th, 2012 at 8:46:48 AM
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The best way to go about it today would probably be to cooperate for it to double as sets for a new Star Trek movie, since there will be one, then partially preserve it as a museum, partially repurpose into a casino hotel, maintaining as much of the original sets as possible and closely replicating them in the hotel section - assuming of course success of the movie.
New Zealand gained a massive revenue boost from LotR tourism (out of $15 billion, between $1 and $4 billion are attributed to the film trilogy), and that's landscapes and a few incomplete sets. Now, Star Trek is not quite as mainstream as LotR and Vegas doesn't have nature resort appeal to it, but a full scale starship with interiors as seen in the movie is going to be pretty hard to turn down.
It won't really save anything on the sets themselves, since these have to be built to last, but it's about attraction, not savings. Being a movie location would be critical for elevating it from a gimmick (a great one, but still a gimmick) to a must-see sci-fi destination with cross-audience appeal.
Such a thing, of course, isn't likely to happen, requiring an unusual level of cooperation between industries, as well as being too adventurous for corporate committees, requiring one major investor able to make single-handed decisions. Should it happen, though, it's likely to succeed, although in a somewhat different light, with Star Trek today being less of a niche franchise and more of a classic.
New Zealand gained a massive revenue boost from LotR tourism (out of $15 billion, between $1 and $4 billion are attributed to the film trilogy), and that's landscapes and a few incomplete sets. Now, Star Trek is not quite as mainstream as LotR and Vegas doesn't have nature resort appeal to it, but a full scale starship with interiors as seen in the movie is going to be pretty hard to turn down.
It won't really save anything on the sets themselves, since these have to be built to last, but it's about attraction, not savings. Being a movie location would be critical for elevating it from a gimmick (a great one, but still a gimmick) to a must-see sci-fi destination with cross-audience appeal.
Such a thing, of course, isn't likely to happen, requiring an unusual level of cooperation between industries, as well as being too adventurous for corporate committees, requiring one major investor able to make single-handed decisions. Should it happen, though, it's likely to succeed, although in a somewhat different light, with Star Trek today being less of a niche franchise and more of a classic.
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April 20th, 2012 at 8:58:59 AM
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Quote: P90The best way to go about it today would probably be to cooperate for it to double as sets for a new Star Trek movie, since there will be one, then partially preserve it as a museum, partially repurpose into a casino hotel, maintaining as much of the original sets as possible and closely replicating them in the hotel section - assuming of course success of the movie.
That's a ebtter idea, IMO. Especially if you can gimmick or otherwise incorporate Vegas into the storyline. Say even Kirk and co. must salvage the real Enterprise which is sued a tourist attraction on old Earth? Just a thought.
Quote:Now, Star Trek is not quite as mainstream as LotR and Vegas doesn't have nature resort appeal to it, but a full scale starship with interiors as seen in the movie is going to be pretty hard to turn down.
Tell me that when Lord fo the ZZZZZZZZZ's lasts for over 40 years and spawns TV series, movies and well over 200 novels. Hmpf!
Besides, any desert-planet locale is a natural for the wilderness around Vegas. Not to mention Hoover Dam and the Bridge. not natural, granted, but stunning for movie visuals.
Quote:Such a thing, of course, isn't likely to happen,
I see as much likelier hitting the Megabucks jackpot three times on my next trip.
But it's nice to daydream.
Remember my first law of Vegas: Whatever happens in Vegas, especially concerning development, nothing happens!
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
April 20th, 2012 at 9:17:49 AM
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When I first read this title, I thought that the USS Enterprise was referring to the aircraft carrier. And I thought, wow, that would be an interesting structure to have in Downtown Las Vegas. They could make it U.S Military friendly. Not sure what they would have done with the flight deck. Maybe save it for VIP jets to land on.
I guess that shows that I am not a die hard Star Trek fan.
I guess that shows that I am not a die hard Star Trek fan.
Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.
April 20th, 2012 at 9:40:53 AM
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Quote: JuyemuraWhen I first read this title, I thought that the USS Enterprise was referring to the aircraft carrier. And I thought, wow, that would be an interesting structure to have in Downtown Las Vegas. They could make it U.S Military friendly. Not sure what they would have done with the flight deck. Maybe save it for VIP jets to land on.
I guess that shows that I am not a die hard Star Trek fan.
plus 1. I thought we were talking aircraft carrier too.
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April 20th, 2012 at 9:51:26 AM
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Perhaps the new Enterprise would be better, but the saucer section is 360 x 463 x 60 meters in size, which is about a 1/2 km^2 of floor space on each floor. On 16 decks, you're looking at 8km^2 of design or about 3 square miles.
The old enterprise saucer section is only about 500 feet in length and covers 2 or 3 decks (floors), maximum. Still, that's a huge amount of floor space (785,400 square feet). In that case, I'd stick the casino in the middle and work my way outwards.
I can't see it happening.
The old enterprise saucer section is only about 500 feet in length and covers 2 or 3 decks (floors), maximum. Still, that's a huge amount of floor space (785,400 square feet). In that case, I'd stick the casino in the middle and work my way outwards.
I can't see it happening.
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April 20th, 2012 at 10:05:38 AM
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I also can't see it happening, especially since the Hilton's museum/ride/themed area failed to generate sustainable interest and support. Now a Star Wars themed resort could work out very nicely... but Lucas will never let it happen.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
April 20th, 2012 at 10:13:41 AM
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He can be bought.Quote: Ayecarumbabut Lucas will never let it happen.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
April 20th, 2012 at 10:19:14 AM
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Quote: JuyemuraThey could make it U.S Military friendly. Not sure what they would have done with the flight deck. Maybe save it for VIP jets to land on.
...how do you imagine the logistics of bringing a carrier to Vegas?
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April 20th, 2012 at 10:31:20 AM
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Float it up the Colorado River and through the lock system at Hoover Dam into Lake Mead and then suck it in through the "third straw" right to Fremont Street.Quote: P90...how do you imagine the logistics of bringing a carrier to Vegas?
Easypeasy!!
They did include a lock system when they built the Hoover Dam, right?
:)
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
April 20th, 2012 at 10:31:52 AM
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This is for the star ship enterprise. It almost was a go back in 1992. What would that have done to the downtown?
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
April 20th, 2012 at 10:49:13 AM
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Quote: JuyemuraWhen I first read this title, I thought that the USS Enterprise was referring to the aircraft carrier. And I thought, wow, that would be an interesting structure to have in Downtown Las Vegas. They could make it U.S Military friendly. Not sure what they would have done with the flight deck. Maybe save it for VIP jets to land on.
I guess that shows that I am not a die hard Star Trek fan.
I thought the exact same thing; "Wow, an aircraft carrier in the desert, I wonder if they're going to do waterline & up?" Then I thought, will it be the WW2 Enterprise, or the current one?
A falling knife has no handle.
April 20th, 2012 at 10:54:24 AM
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Quote: MoscaI thought the exact same thing; "Wow, an aircraft carrier in the desert, I wonder if they're going to do waterline & up?" Then I thought, will it be the WW2 Enterprise, or the current one?
Given the logistics, it would be cheaper to build an aircraft carrier on site than to bring one in.
On the other hand, did Vegas push to get one of the decomissioned Shuttles? That would have been a great attraction, and one Vegas would never get in a million years.
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April 20th, 2012 at 11:15:39 AM
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Quote: NareedDid Vegas push to get one of the decomissioned Shuttles? That would have been a great attraction, and one Vegas would never get in a million years.
That WOULD be a great attraction, but a logistical nightmare almost as much as an aircraft carrier.
The "never flew in space" Enterprise shuttle, smaller than the shuttles that DID fly, is coming to New York. I heard a brief piece on the logistics needed to move it.
It will fly piggy-back on a 747, (the same way the other shuttles that land anywhere other than Florida are returned) to Kennedy airport, where it will be transferred to a barge, and ferried around NYC to find it's new home on a pier on the Hudson, next to the Interpid aircraft carrier (which is a sea / air museum). There wasn't any indication on how it gets transferred from the 747 to the barge, or barge to pier.
Kennedy is at least on a bay so there is a direct access. What would you do if it's new home was Vegas? Truck it thru the streets? It's way too big for that.
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Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
April 20th, 2012 at 11:42:16 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearThat WOULD be a great attraction, but a logistical nightmare almost as much as an aircraft carrier.
They're not even only one order of magnitude apart. Space Shuttles are pretty easy to transport, there are two planes that can carry them, and once on solid ground it's just like any other oversize load.
It only weighs as much as a main battle tank or a couple shipping containers, so loading/unloading can be done with any any transporter can get it through. As for size, you could avoid the city. Or, if you do need to get it inside, since you don't intend to fly it again, the wings can be removed and reattached. They even do it with airplanes that are intended to fly again.
To transport a carrier over land, you'd need to cut it into 500+ pieces and build a small shipyard to reassemble them...
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April 20th, 2012 at 11:44:20 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearThere wasn't any indication on how it gets transferred from the 747 to the barge, or barge to pier.
They use a wide crane, same as they do in KSC to mount and dismount it from the 747. Cranes are designed to be dismantled for moving, and for easy reassembly.
Quote:Kennedy is at least on a bay so there is a direct access. What would you do if it's new home was Vegas? Truck it thru the streets? It's way too big for that.
Well, it depends where it would be placed. Can you build a casino around it right at McCarran? I suppose not, but that would simplify the problem. Let's assume then that it would be placed along the north part of the Strip, where it would fit right in with the other boondoggles <w>. I don't know what streets are available and when, but the wings and tail could be removed easily and then reattached. It's not as though there's any worry concerning airworthiness anymore, and that makes transport easier.
I suggest this beacsue that's exactly how a DC-9 was taken from the Mex city airport, through the streets to a relatively nearby plaza. now it serves, for some reason, as a library, wings, tail and all (well, i'm sure the engine nacelles don't have any engines). The Shuttle has dimensions similar to a DC-9
It's surprising what things get moved and where they end up.
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April 20th, 2012 at 12:00:15 PM
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I'm bummed that I missed the Star Trek Experience. I would settle for just a full-size replica of Quark's bar...walk in, say hi to Morn, order a kanar...check out the Dabo girls...
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
April 20th, 2012 at 12:26:23 PM
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If it makes you feel better, just outside the Star Trek Experience, there WAS a "Quark's", but it was a restaurant that looked nothing like Quark's bar. The theme was totally lost in the restaurant.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
April 20th, 2012 at 12:31:11 PM
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I don't want to start a thread or discussion, but my daughter just had a conversation with me about Star trek and all the spinoffs.
She said there are no gay characters in any of them. She remarked " Does that mean there aren't any gays in the future? "
I would say she is WIERD, but don't want to see the next post about the apple not falling far from the tree.
She said there are no gay characters in any of them. She remarked " Does that mean there aren't any gays in the future? "
I would say she is WIERD, but don't want to see the next post about the apple not falling far from the tree.
April 20th, 2012 at 12:31:57 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearIf it makes you feel better, just outside the Star Trek Experience, there WAS a "Quark's", but it was a restaurant that looked nothing like Quark's bar. The theme was totally lost in the restaurant.
Oh, yes. they muffed it completely. They should have had it outside the ride are and combined it with a part of the casino.
The Promenade shop, though, did look nice, and the merchandise was Trekkie Heaven. But the best part, aside from standing on Picard's bridge, were teh props and other exhibits on the line to the rides. Complete with actors playing Ferengi, Klingons and others. I'm glad I caught it before it closed.
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April 20th, 2012 at 12:37:27 PM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsI'm bummed that I missed the Star Trek Experience. I would settle for just a full-size replica of Quark's bar...walk in, say hi to Morn, order a kanar...check out the Dabo girls...
It's too bad the Star Trek attractions move to Neonopolis got the, "red shirt guy" treatment. The transporter effect was pretty cool, and even after experiencing it a couple times, I was still impressed (mainly because the floor would actually "change" beneath your feet.)
The flaming babyback Targ ribs at Quark's were really tasty too. Love that Targ.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
April 20th, 2012 at 12:45:06 PM
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I would say that television, and attitudes in general, weren't ready for gays in the 80's and not at all in the 60's - though in 1968, Plato's Stepchildren featured the first interacial kiss.Quote: buzzpaffI don't want to start a thread or discussion, but my daughter just had a conversation with me about Star trek and all the spinoffs.
She said there are no gay characters in any of them. She remarked " Does that mean there aren't any gays in the future? "
I would say she is WIERD, but don't want to see the next post about the apple not falling far from the tree.
However, there was an episode of Deep Space 9, Rejoined that aired in 1995, featuring one of the first woman/woman kisses on TV.
FYI: There's an entire Wikipedia article devided to Sexuality in Star Trek.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
April 20th, 2012 at 12:45:17 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffI don't want to start a thread or discussion, but my daughter just had a conversation with me about Star trek and all the spinoffs.
She said there are no gay characters in any of them. She remarked " Does that mean there aren't any gays in the future? "
I would say she is WIERD, but don't want to see the next post about the apple not falling far from the tree.
I think same sex relationships were explored in a few episodes of the later spin offs. An alien race did not have a concept of male/female, another race could switch back and forth depending on their "host", etc.
And from the original series, there was Sulu...
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
April 20th, 2012 at 1:03:02 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI would say that television, and attitudes in general, weren't ready for gays in the 80's and not at all in the 60's - though in 1968, Plato's Stepchildren featured the first interacial kiss.
True. But for that matter there were no Jewish, Chrisitan, Muslim, Bhuddist, etc characters on Trek at all (there were such characters in B5, including guest appearances by some monks and a rabbi, BTW).
As to the original series, leave alone the kiss scene between Uhura and Kirk. Simlpy having Nichelle Nichols in the cast at all was a bit risque for the times. Watch the episodes. She's treated as any other crew member. And short skirts plus gogo boots aside, the fact that a ship carried women in the crew was also kind of remarkable. Oh, in the pilot episode, Majel Barret (Gene Roddenberry's wife, later she played Troi's mother in TNG) played the first officer.
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April 20th, 2012 at 2:31:17 PM
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Quote: buzzpaff
She said there are no gay characters in any of them.
You mean Data wasn't Gay? Or the blind black guy? Or Picard?
You could'a fooled me..
When Picard said 'make it so', wasn't that code words
for Data to meet him on the Holodeck for another round
of Capt Bligh and His Merry Men? With Data playing all
the merry men parts?
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April 20th, 2012 at 3:45:18 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearThere are - or at least were - plans to build a full scale Enterprise downtown.
OK, who says it has to be a full size Enterprise ?
Wouldn't one even 100 feet long be kindof cool, with a similarly sized
Klingon Battle cruiser a couple of hundred feet away.
I'd come downtown to get a picture taken, especially if they had a nice
viewing deck where you could have the model in the background.
It could be sized to fit under the canopy on Fremont street.
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
April 20th, 2012 at 4:51:04 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffI don't want to start a thread or discussion, but my daughter just had a conversation with me about Star trek and all the spinoffs.
She said there are no gay characters in any of them. She remarked " Does that mean there aren't any gays in the future? "
I would say she is WIERD, but don't want to see the next post about the apple not falling far from the tree.
That's a pretty strange thing to complain about. About 1 in 50 people is gay (there are higher and lower estimates though), and, even with no closets in the future, you'd need to explore the romantic life of 50 characters to meet one who is gay, and over 100 characters for a gay couple.
If I remember right, Star Trek only involved the romantic life of Captain Kirk and occasional temporary characters, up until Deep Space 9, where about a dozen characters got it. For the rest, you don't know if they are straight either.
While including gay (and other) characters well above their statistical occurrence for diversity purposes can be a good thing, there's nothing wrong with not including them either, if your show isn't about that.
Star Trek already took a number of very progressive steps, for its time, and then in the new series. Of course, by the time of ST:ENT, they kind of lost it. Deep Space 9 was a big step forward, as a show, and they should have taken that step and gone forward from there. Instead they tried to force the series back to its roots... big surprise that it failed to impress.
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