ajemeister
ajemeister
Joined: Mar 20, 2012
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April 17th, 2012 at 8:44:16 AM permalink
Just a quick question while i'm thinking about it... say I have $100 and am playing on a theoretical machine where i can change denominations and can play numerous small sessions or one "all in" session where I play the $100. Both are max bet/lines just different denominations. My question for you is are my odds the same if i play one large spin vs playing many small spins to wind up positive? If that doesn't make sense I'll ask this.. Is my expected return the same whether I pull the lever once (big bet) or I pull the lever 1000+ times (small bet)? Or would I be expected to do better in the long run of 1000+ spins since I'd be more likely to hit jackpots/bonuses do to more play?

I have always been curious if I should just throw $20 or so in a machine and pull it once or just play it all out in the penny denominations. I understand the expected comps would be far greater with long play
teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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April 17th, 2012 at 9:33:45 AM permalink
In most (almost all) slot machines, the payback percentage does not change depending on how many lines you play. The percentage usually changes the higher denomination you play (for the better). You can see this on a lot of video poker machines where the $1 game pays better than the $0.25 game.

So, you will do better playing one big spin at a high denomination. Of course, the variance will be huge. You may have more fun playing a bunch of small spins.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
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April 17th, 2012 at 9:43:46 AM permalink
It depends.
On your machine, are all of the payouts and bonus in direct proportion to the amount bet?
If they are, then the ER should be the same.
Otherwise, obviously play the one with the higher ER.

Quote:

I understand the expected comps would be far greater with long play


I am under the impression that it's the total amount bet, and not the time, that determines the comps. Otherwise, what stops somebody from spending hours playing one line per spin on a penny or nickel slot, and then claiming comps with a higher value than the total bet? (If you slow down to one spin every 10 seconds on a nickel slot, that's $18/hour bet.)
CrystalMath
CrystalMath
Joined: May 10, 2011
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April 17th, 2012 at 9:51:49 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

It depends.
On your machine, are all of the payouts and bonus in direct proportion to the amount bet?
If they are, then the ER should be the same.
Otherwise, obviously play the one with the higher ER.


I am under the impression that it's the total amount bet, and not the time, that determines the comps. Otherwise, what stops somebody from spending hours playing one line per spin on a penny or nickel slot, and then claiming comps with a higher value than the total bet? (If you slow down to one spin every 10 seconds on a nickel slot, that's $18/hour bet.)



I agree that comps are based on total coin in. I also assumed that playing 1 spin for $20 will result in a ruin or a win that you would cash out. If, however, you play penny games, you will likely win small prizes along the way and will wind up wagering several times the initial $20. Also, you likely won't ever be up enough to entice you to cash out.

The 1 cent play is for getting alcohol "comps."
I heart Crystal Math.
ajemeister
ajemeister
Joined: Mar 20, 2012
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April 17th, 2012 at 10:12:22 AM permalink
Quote:

It depends.
On your machine, are all of the payouts and bonus in direct proportion to the amount bet?
If they are, then the ER should be the same.
Otherwise, obviously play the one with the higher ER.



Say that both denominations are equal multipliers in payouts and bonuses.. is it better to play for 1 spin? 100? 1000?

EDIT: (not sure if comps should can be figured into this as I'm not sure the rule of thumb for calculating them)


Quote:

I am under the impression that it's the total amount bet, and not the time, that determines the comps. Otherwise, what stops somebody from spending hours playing one line per spin on a penny or nickel slot, and then claiming comps with a higher value than the total bet? (If you slow down to one spin every 10 seconds on a nickel slot, that's $18/hour bet.)



My theory on this is that rarely will you lose every single spin and ruin betting small. You will have ups and downs that will accumulate more total money played. By playing more than the starting amount, you are guaranteed comps of at least what you started with plus any plays on additional small wins, thus giving you more comps.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
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April 17th, 2012 at 10:30:26 AM permalink
Quote: ajemeister

Say that both denominations are equal multipliers in payouts and bonuses.. is it better to play for 1 spin? 100? 1000?

EDIT: (not sure if comps should can be figured into this as I'm not sure the rule of thumb for calculating them)




My theory on this is that rarely will you lose every single spin and ruin betting small. You will have ups and downs that will accumulate more total money played. By playing more than the starting amount, you are guaranteed comps of at least what you started with plus any plays on additional small wins, thus giving you more comps.



If you're playing a game with a 90% average return, you're worse off the more you play. After 1 spin of $100, you expect to have $90. After 1000 spins of $1, you expect to have 0 (actually, you'd have to stop spinning after 990 tries - you'd be under $1).
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
puzzlenut
puzzlenut
Joined: Sep 19, 2013
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September 19th, 2013 at 11:39:49 PM permalink
In an unfavorable game such as a slot machine it can be demonstrated mathematically that you lose less by making large bets than by making small bets. See "How to Gamble If You Must" by Lester E. Dubins or "Fifty Challenging Problems in Probability With Solutions" by Frederick Mosteller.

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