Casino Chip of the Day

Quote: Doc

State: New Hampshire
City: Hampton Beach
Casino: Ocean Gaming
...Ocean Gaming probably found such a manufacturer to produce these chips and add the required identification and denomination.

It could also be that the aftemarket embosser sourced the chips from the Chinese wholesaler. It is quite common for these "customizers" to buy blanks, then add their own flair.

While it is called a, "charity" was there any indication who or what cause gets the proceeds?

I didn't see (or look for) information at the casino. Their web site has information about their charitable role, but it looks out of date. Among other things, it says that 35% of casino winnings go to charity, and it includes an October 2011 letter describing how to apply to be one of the participating charities in 2012. It appears that charities can apply to sponsor events on specific dates, so that they can do promos that generate funds for the specific charity. I don't know how they handle day-to-day winnings, perhaps because I haven't read the details. There is a list of 2014 charities along with dates for which winnings will be shared with each. It doesn't appear to cover the entire year. Here are the charities:

Quote: Ocean Gaming Casino participating charities for 2014

AIDS Response Seacoast, CASA New Hampshire, Children's Dyslexia Center, Child and Family Service of NH, Dover High School Football Boosters Club, Exeter Area Charitable Foundation, East Kingston Public Library, Experience Hampton, Inc, Friends in Action, Hampton Historical Society, Hurd-Welch American Legion Post 90, The James House Assoc., Inc., Little Warriors Football, Inc., New Hampshire Made, New Hampshire Theatre Project, Pro Portsmouth, Inc, Rochester Child Care Center, Rockingham County Law Enforcement Officers Assoc., SASS (Sexual Assault Support Services), Seabrook Emergency Training Association, Sisters of the Holy Cross, Vic Geary Drop In Center, Wings & Hooves Therapeutic Riding, Inc., Webster at Rye

Quote: Doc

I think the only “charity casino” I have ever been to before was the one in Brantford, Ontario, and I’m not sure that this is quite the same.

I stumbled across Brantford Charity Casino on a drive across southern Ontario in 2000, and remember it looking like any other casino with slots and table games. Today, it goes by the more generic name OLG Brantford (Ontario Lottery and Gaming). The OLG website seems to suggest that most of the 6 OLG casinos support the local community, so the fact that only some of them are called charity casinos is a little confusing.

As far as these state charity casinos, the only ones I'm aware of are in New Hampshire, a few in Fargo, ND (the rest in ND seem to be closed now) and some scattered across southern Michigan, although the governor may have suspended them for a review of charitable gaming laws. I tend not to include these on my todo list, because I generally don't collect plainish chips like the one Doc posted. I get the impression that most of these such rooms are small with 4-8 tables, mostly poker and possibly blackjack.

State: Rhode Island
City: Lincoln
Casino: Twin River

Yes, another brand new state for this thread. Second one in two days. Keep your eyes open for a third one tomorrow.

As is often the case, there is starkly-differing information available from different sites on the web. I haven’t bothered to research the truth, so I’ll just report the things I found.

The MoGH chip guide indicates that Lincoln Park opened as a casino in 2006 and later changed its name to Twin River. On a different page, the same site claims that the Twin River Casino opened in 2001 and added table games in 2013. If that’s not enough contradiction for you, here is the more detailed version from Wikipedia.

That site says that the Lincoln Downs horse racing facility opened in 1947 and closed in 1976 under financial difficulties. After a change in ownership, the track was converted to dog racing, opening in 1997 with the new name of Lincoln Greyhound Park. Off-track betting was authorized in 1991, and video lottery terminals, with poker and blackjack games, were added in 1992.

In 2003, the owners were trying to gain political support for an expansion of their gaming operations. A scandal ensued in which two executives were indicted on federal charges for trying to bribe the house speaker to back their proposal and also to block a casino application by the Narragansett tribe. The governor declared that no further discussion on this matter would be held unless the facility was sold to new owners. That happened in 2004. The $220 million expansion opened in March 2007 under the new name of Twin River Casino.

All did not turn out well, and the new owners filed for bankruptcy protection in 2009, stating at the time that they would have to discontinue the dog-racing activities in order to survive. Ownership transferred to lenders in 2010, with the bankruptcy case closing in 2011. A November 2012 referendum was approved, allowing table games at the facility, and those opened in June 2013.

Or so says Wiki, and at least that last date agrees with the MoGH description of the table games opening, though not much of anything else does. The Twin River Casino’s own web site does not describe the history of the place, but it now claims “4,500 video slot machines and virtual table games and 80 live table games including blackjack, roulette, craps and more.” Gaming is on (at least) two floors, with separate smoking and non-smoking areas.

In December 2013, Twin River Casino announced a deal to purchase the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Biloxi for $250 million. Then in July of this year there was an announcement that the purchase has been finalized. I do not know whether there will be any obvious changes in Biloxi.

I visited the Twin River Casino this August, had lunch at one of the restaurants, and played $10 minimum craps for slightly over a nanosecond, which was long enough for me to drop $200 and be on my way. At least I added an expensive souvenir to my collection.

The chip is a white, reversed-hat-and-cane Paulson design with two triangular edge inserts in purple and gray. The center inlays are different on the two sides, with both inlays being slightly oversized, covering the brims of the top hats. One insert has the name and city/state around the yellowish perimeter, with the name repeated as a logo on the black center, with a couple of river swooshes replacing the “I” in both Twin and River.

The other inlay also has the name presented on the perimeter but a slogan in place of the city/state. The center of that inlay on this $1 chip shows a section of a Big 6 wheel, while other denominations of this series of chips show other gaming images. UV light reveals a hidden Paulson hat and cane logo on each side of the chip, with nothing else fluorescing.

Yes, even for us rail birds it was tough to follow since most of it took place behind the black curtain. May, 2013 table games opened, they are located on the ground floor. Non-smoking slots upstairs.

BTW, State law forbids winning at craps, sorry. :-0

Let me point out that Twin River Casino is run by the Rhode Island Lottery, or The Lot, and that the slots are VLTs. Many people mistakenly call it Twin Rivers with an s.

Quote: 1BB

Let me point out that Twin River Casino is run by the Rhode Island Lottery, or The Lot, and that the slots are VLTs.

Well, I had definitely missed that part of the story. The Wiki article mentions that as part of the 2009-11 bankruptcy case, ownership transferred to "a group led by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Sankaty Advisors." So, do those folks own the place with the state lottery operating the gaming? Why would slots be VLTs at a place that has full table gaming?

BTW, I didn't mention before, but they also have electronic craps and roulette (and maybe electronic blackjack) operating on the 2nd floor, with the real games on the lower level. How would those electronic games be operated as VLTs without it being essentially a thoroughly rigged game? I would feel it was fraudulent to operate a video craps game where the chance of each of the 36 possible outcomes of a roll were not random and equally likely on every roll. Same for an electronic roulette or blackjack machine.

Electronic Roulette and BJ on ground floor as well.

In 2006, the Narragansett tribe wanted to open an actual casino in another town. It had to go to referendum because the State Supreme Court had ruled in a mind-numbing violation of the rules of logic "A lottery is a game of chance, therefore games of chance are lotteries" and thus had to be administered by the Lottery commission.The honorable justices don't realize one cannot draw a universal from a particular? Only in Rhode Island...

A change was needed to the state constitution, but the referendum failed. The table games were ultimately ordered under the aegis of the Lot. RI politics could give New Jersey a run for its money.

State: Maine
City: Bangor
Casino: Hollywood

Three new states for this thread in three days. Whodathunkit?

Bangor was the northern extreme for our driving trip in August. We went there specifically to drop into the Hollywood casino, but we initially planned to spend one night in town. That plan had to be tweaked during the trip, so from Ocean Gaming in NH, it was a direct drive to Bangor, a quick stop in the casino for a little gaming, and an immediate reversal of direction to head back toward the south.

The Hollywood Casino and Raceway is located on the south side of Bangor, on the shore of the Penobscot River, and just a block off I-395. It is owned by Penn National, and it was not until after I returned from my visit and started working on this write-up that I even realized that they had a horse racing facility there. The track is located across the street from the casino and hotel, and according to their web site, they offer harness racing from May through November. However, they have no races at all (at least not in 2014) in either August or September, so that may explain why I was not aware of the track operations.

The racetrack is part of Bass Park, a public area that includes the State Fair Grounds. I do not know when that track opened, but the casino began as Hollywood Slots in 2005 as the state’s first slot machine complex. In 2012, they introduced table games and became “Maine’s first full Casino.”

According to CasinoCity.com, this Hollywood offers 1,000 gaming machines and 14 table and poker games. I was quite unimpressed with the table games offering. I didn’t count the number of tables myself, but there were only a few in operation late in the afternoon on a Monday. They had one craps table, but it was unstaffed. A roulette dealer was standing at a completely idle table and saw me looping the pit. He asked what I was looking for, so I mentioned that they didn’t have my usual game ready, pointing to the craps table next to him. He said they only work that table on weekends. Hardly an endorsement for a national-chain casino.

With few other options available, I took to my usual fall-back choice and played $10-minimum blackjack for half an hour. Both of the dealers that I encountered seemed nice but were bordering on being inept. It appeared that they had attended no schooling on the game and were both on their very first day of on-the-job training. I don’t know whether that was indeed the case, but supervisors were hovering over them constantly, correcting many moves on each hand.

I toked both of the dealers for their valiant efforts and got back on the road up $50 and apparently ahead of whatever rush hour traffic there might be in Bangor.

My souvenir chip is a white RHC Paulson with four narrow edge inserts, two each in brown and black. The center inlay is the usual Hollywood design that is slightly undersized and seems to have a wood-grain pattern on a lighter-colored disk underneath the darker circle with the spotlight-in-the-sky pattern. This is exactly like the center inlays we have seen on chips from other Hollywood casinos except for the notations of Bangor (twice) and Maine. UV light reveals the hidden Paulson hat and cane logo in the center, with nothing else fluorescing.

State: Maine
City: Oxford
Casino: Oxford

Nope, no new state for this thread today, just a chip from the second full casino to operate in Maine. (And this chip is the last one I currently have available to post, so I am once again looking for others to step up to the plate.)

As we drove southwest from Bangor and the Hollywood casino, I followed the route recommended by my GPS unit to get to the Oxford casino in/near the town of Oxford. I don’t think we ever got to the town, which apparently is a mile or so northwest of the casino site. Along the way, after leaving I-95, we travelled quite a distance on winding, two-lane roads through forests and residential areas that may have been agriculture based. I was convinced that we were headed to a tiny, roadhouse-dive sort of casino hidden way out in the woods.

I was very pleasantly surprised when we arrived. The Oxford Casino building is quite a bit smaller than the Hollywood in Bangor, likely because it does not include a hotel. As for gaming, the Oxford facility has 790 machines (per CasinoCity.com) or 848 machines (per Wikipedia) compared to the 1,000 machines reported by CasinoCity for the Hollywood. That had little impact on me, since I don’t play the machines at all.

The stark difference is in the table game offerings. While the Hollywood has 14 tables (most of which were idle while I was there), the Oxford casino has 22 tables all in operation during my visit – a 50+% bigger pit area than the national chain offering and fully active. Of particular interest to me, they had their craps table operating and staffed with a crew that seemed quite competent!

I guess I shouldn’t word it quite that way – while the Oxford Casino certainly presents itself as if it were an independent operation, it is now owned by Churchill Downs. While under development, it was known by the name Black Bear Four Season Resort and Casino, but it opened in June 2012 under the Oxford name and was sold to Churchill Downs in 2013.

I played $5-minimum craps for 45 minutes and managed to lose the $50 that I had won earlier that day playing blackjack at the Hollywood. Easy come, easy go, I suppose. After I finished fiddling with the dice, my wife and I had a fine little dinner at one of their restaurants and got back on the road south.

My souvenir chip is a white RHC Paulson with three edge inserts in blue, olive, and red/rust. I’m not sure what the logo represents, but it reminds me of some kind of fireplace. Other than the logo, the white and slightly undersized center inlay includes the casino name, the denomination, and the city/state. Both sides of the chip appear the same, other than the sequence of the edge inserts, of course. UV light reveals the hidden Paulson hat and cane logo in the center, with nothing else fluorescing.

Quote: Doc

State: Maine
City: Oxford
Casino: Oxford

If I recall, when Oxford was opening they hired Silverton Casino as the contractor to run their casino itself. Did you notice any similarities between Oxford and Silverton?

I had never heard about that. I did not notice anything at Oxford that particularly reminded me of the Silverton any more than any other casino. Of course, the things that stick in my mind about Silverton are: (1) an attached Bass Pro Shops, (2) a huge aquarium with mermaids, and (3) habitually grumpy craps dealers who (of course) complain about the abuse that Ahigh gives them. I saw none of that at Oxford. Of course, I have to admit that both of the places strike me as being just a bit remote.


Edit: This 9/20/11 article in the Las Vegas Sun reports on the proposed Silverton/Oxford affiliation.

Quote: Doc

State: Maine
City: Oxford
Casino: Oxford

...The stark difference is in the table game offerings...

Very interesting. That is quite a difference in their offerings, especially since the Oxford is so much smaller. Why do you think that is? Is there a local preference for table games vs. machines, or are they trying to establish a niche?

Trivia: To get to Oxford proper from the casino, you pass through the village of Welchville.

Oxford is smaller? Well, the town of Oxford is definitely a lot smaller than Bangor, but the Oxford casino isn't really smaller than the Hollywood, if you ignore the hotel and the racetrack. In my opinion, the Oxford Casino offering of table games is much more reasonable for a casino with 700 to 1,000 machines -- the Hollywood pit just looked like a joke.

Quote: Ayecarumba

Trivia: To get to Oxford proper from the casino, you pass through the village of Welchville.

Now that is an interesting trivia point! Not only is it funny, but it is extremely trivial. I looked on Google Maps, and I could find no indication of a place called Welchville, ME. Then, I did a search on that name, and sure enough, it took me to a little intersection between Oxford and the Oxford Casino, still with no name presented. I looked at the StreetView image for that intersection and noticed a sign for www.welchville.com. I tried that, but it seems to be a non-functioning site that says it is a backdoor for a web hosting service.

Nice find! How did you come up with Welchville?

Quote: Doc

Nice find! How did you come up with Welchville?

I'll bet Lem66 tipped him off :)

Quote: chickenman

I'll bet Lem66 tipped him off :)

Bah-dum-bum!

Actually, it came up on a Google search. I think there is a mention in Wikipedia. My original thought was that the table games were supported by cross border traffic, but looking a the map, it seemed like a long haul to get to Oxford from Canada.

If there were cross-border traffic looking for casinos, I think it would more likely be in the other direction. My original plan for this trip was to head from Maine northwest across the upper tips of NH and VT to visit the casinos in Ottawa and Montreal (and maybe even as far up as Mont Tremblant) to collect chips, heading south from there with stops in Gananoque and (when again south of the border) Hogansburg and Verona. My wife hit the delete button on that idea.

Almost due north from Oxford, there is even a casino with table games at La Malbaie, some 75 miles or so NE of Quebec City. To the east of Maine, there are Casino New Brunswick and two editions of Casino Nova Scotia. At least one of those establishments should be more convenient for each Canadian resident than the casinos in Oxford and Bangor.

Quote: Doc

To the east of Maine, there are Casino New Brunswick and two editions of Casino Nova Scotia.

There's also a casino at the Red Shores Racetrack in Charlottetown on Prince Edward Island. Note that the bridge to/from PEI has a hefty $45 one-way toll. I've never been to the Atlantic provinces but I always keep my casino listings fairly up to date since you never know when an opportunity might arise. Right now, my todo list is a daunting 321 (plus another 44 that only offer poker; I'm no good but I'll play it if I have to). I really wish I had tried harder to collect back when I used to get 3-4 weeks vacation a year and gas was a buck. Another crazy statistic is that since I started collecting in 1998, more than 500 casinos and cardrooms closed before I could visit them. Yes, I actually compile and track this information. I thought it might be motivational but it's bumming me out.

Incidentally, Doc messaged me and ask if I was ready to start contributing as the others have mostly run through their collection. Sadly, the answer is no, but I'm hoping things will be better in a month or so. In the past 2 years I've only collected about 20 chips. I need to get back in the game.

Quote: ChipmanSpiff

There's also a casino at the Red Shores Racetrack in Charlottetown on Prince Edward Island. Note that the bridge to/from PEI has a hefty $45 one-way toll.

Well, dang! That one wasn't on my list at all!

Maybe some day I will get and post a chip from there, telling as much of the story as I can. For the moment, based on my five minutes of research, suffice it to say that the place started as Summerside Raceway in 1886, became Charlottetown Driving Park in 1889, added an "entertainment center" in 2005, and became the Red Shores Racetrack and Casino in 2009, with slots and poker. More recently (date unclear) they have added blackjack ($5 min, $200 max), and their rules seem quite reasonable.

I have visited Charlottetown twice, in 2006 and 2010, staying that second time at a very nice B&B down the road in Victoria. I am not a poker player and have specifically avoided going after souvenir chips in all of the California card rooms that rdw4potus presented here. Since I don't know when the blackjack tables were introduced at Red Shores, I don't know whether I missed an opportunity to pick up a souvenir chip playing a game that I do participate in. Well, the Red Shores is now on my list of chips I might get some day. My wife and I enjoyed our trips to New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island, but I don't know that we will make it back up there.

With regard to the hefty toll for the bridge, there is a nice way to evade that if you are interested in seeing Nova Scotia, too. As ChipmanSpiff noted, the bridge toll is only collected for the New Brunswick to PEI direction. There is also a ferry between PEI and Nova Scotia that only collects the fare for the PEI to NS direction. On both of our visits to the Atlantic provinces, we drove from New Brunswick to Nova Scotia, took the ferry to PEI, and crossed the bridge back to New Brunswick, with no tolls to be paid at all!

Quote: Doc

I am not a poker player and have specifically avoided going after souvenir chips in all of the California card rooms that rdw4potus presented here.

The vast majority (I'd say at least 80%) of the California card rooms offer at least blackjack (well, the California version) and a growing number are adding games like 3CP (again, often the weird California version, where the dealer reveals one of their cards, and there's no ante bonus). I have a whole bunch of California chips and only played poker once. These card rooms are all player-banked (usually a professional) but be aware that in some places, you pay the commission. The worst I've seen is Casino M8trix in San Jose, which charges $1 per hand plus $1 per bonus bet. I won't go back there.

In Washington state, where the rooms are house-banked, the games are more mainstream: normal blackjack, Spanish 21, Let It Ride, etc. The WSGC cardroom list totals 50 right now (down from 96 in 2006, yikes) and as far as I know, at most 3-4 of them are poker-only.

I take no responsibility for the spousal consequences of this information.

Quote: ChipmanSpiff

The vast majority (I'd say at least 80%) of the California card rooms offer at least blackjack (well, the California version) and a growing number are adding games like 3CP (again, often the weird California version, where the dealer reveals one of their cards, and there's no ante bonus). I have a whole bunch of California chips and only played poker once. These card rooms are all player-banked (usually a professional) but be aware that in some places, you pay the commission. The worst I've seen is Casino M8trix in San Jose, which charges $1 per hand plus $1 per bonus bet. I won't go back there.

In Washington state, where the rooms are house-banked, the games are more mainstream: normal blackjack, Spanish 21, Let It Ride, etc. The WSGC cardroom list totals 50 right now (down from 96 in 2006, yikes) and as far as I know, at most 3-4 of them are poker-only.

I take no responsibility for the spousal consequences of this information.

I think I played poker only 6 times to collect my chips from CA. 2 of those were scenarios where a bar had 1 poker table. Another was me and 5 70 year old mexican dudes in what was basically their clubhouse. A 4th was the poker game in the back room of a private stripclub. The other two were multi-table poker-only clubs in central CA.

I think this is an easy sell to Mrs. Doc - there are lots of clubs along the Pacific Coast Highway from SLO County to the bay area, and in Napa and Sonoma. Those are trips that could easily stand on their own without the casino/cardclub connection.

I have a question for Doc, and possibly others, since the thread is a little slow at the moment. Doc, I know that you consider a name change to be a "new" casino (I do as well) but I'm curious how you handle very subtle name changes. Here's a few examples:

1. The Terrible's properties in MO and IA changed their names from "X" to "Terrible's X" to "X" again. Is this 2 or 3 different casinos? (In the case of "Spotlight 29" in California, when it abandoned "Trump 29" I think they actually took the old chips out of storage. I have both the pre-Trump and Trump chips and feel no need to get a post-Trump chip, even if it's different.)

2. Casinos destroyed in Hurricane Katrina. They kept the same name, but moved from a riverboat/barge to land-based and issued updated chips. Is "Treasure Bay" Biloxi (riverboat) different than "Treasure Bay" Biloxi (land-based) ?

3. I recall that you consider "Harrah's Atlantic City" different from "Harrah's Marina"; what about "Resorts International" becoming "Resorts Atlantic City" ?

4. Some Indian casinos have undergone subtle changes, e.g. "X Indian Bingo" is now "X Casino Resort"

5. Other. Is "Jackie Gaughan's Gold Spike" different than "Gold Spike" (post-Gaughan) ?

I tend to use MOGH as my guideline; if they consider a name change to be two separate casinos, so do I. Yet I'm mixed about whether "Arizona Charlie's East" and "Arizone Charlie's Boulder" are the same or different. I finally had to draw the line at "Peppermill's Western Village" and "Western Village, a Peppermill Resorts Property" in Sparks, NV and treat it as a single casino.

Quote: ChipmanSpiff

I have a question for Doc, and possibly others, since the thread is a little slow at the moment. Doc, I know that you consider a name change to be a "new" casino (I do as well) but I'm curious how you handle very subtle name changes. Here's a few examples:

1. The Terrible's properties in MO and IA changed their names from "X" to "Terrible's X" to "X" again. Is this 2 or 3 different casinos? (In the case of "Spotlight 29" in California, when it abandoned "Trump 29" I think they actually took the old chips out of storage. I have both the pre-Trump and Trump chips and feel no need to get a post-Trump chip, even if it's different.)

2. Casinos destroyed in Hurricane Katrina. They kept the same name, but moved from a riverboat/barge to land-based and issued updated chips. Is "Treasure Bay" Biloxi (riverboat) different than "Treasure Bay" Biloxi (land-based) ?

3. I recall that you consider "Harrah's Atlantic City" different from "Harrah's Marina"; what about "Resorts International" becoming "Resorts Atlantic City" ?

4. Some Indian casinos have undergone subtle changes, e.g. "X Indian Bingo" is now "X Casino Resort"

5. Other. Is "Jackie Gaughan's Gold Spike" different than "Gold Spike" (post-Gaughan) ?

I tend to use MOGH as my guideline; if they consider a name change to be two separate casinos, so do I. Yet I'm mixed about whether "Arizona Charlie's East" and "Arizone Charlie's Boulder" are the same or different. I finally had to draw the line at "Peppermill's Western Village" and "Western Village, a Peppermill Resorts Property" in Sparks, NV and treat it as a single casino.

I think I'm looser than Doc about what I consider a change. It probably helps that I don't have to consider the retribution of a spouse as I plan my travels. For me, if any word changes, I want the new chip. So just about all of your examples would cause me to re-add the casino to my hitlist. For example, I revisited the former Terribles casinos when they reverted to the Frontier/Lakeside/Mark Twain names. I don't go out of my way to collect new series of chips from casinos that have not changed their name.

Quote: rdw4potus

I think I'm looser than Doc about what I consider a change. It probably helps that I don't have to consider the retribution of a spouse as I plan my travels. For me, if any word changes, I want the new chip. So just about all of your examples would cause me to re-add the casino to my hitlist. For example, I revisited the former Terribles casinos when they reverted to the Frontier/Lakeside/Mark Twain names. I don't go out of my way to collect new series of chips from casinos that have not changed their name.

I'm fairly loose as well, if only to increase the chip count of my collection. The problem is I'm not always very consistent. I don't have either a pre-Terrible's Mark Twain or a Terrible's, but if I had a pre-Terrible's I think I'd be inclined to not get a post-Terrible's. There's a few "anomalies" in my collection ("mistake" is not quite an accurate term) so if I really wanted to be authentic, I should probably kick a few chips out. I already dropped a "Cache Creek" (CA) chip as not being any different than "Cache Creek Casino Resort".

I forgot to include an example in my previous post: I have a chip from the Catfish Bend in Ft. Madison, IA, but the Burlington, IA, location is just the same boat that floated from one spot to another. I'm inclined to consider that "new" and get another chip. I passed through Ft. Madison in 2002 on a roadtrip that ended for the day in Davenport, where I picked up a chip from the Rhythm City Casino before I saw George Carlin perform at the Adler Theatre.

Quote: ChipmanSpiff

I'm fairly loose as well, if only to increase the chip count of my collection. The problem is I'm not always very consistent. I don't have either a pre-Terrible's Mark Twain or a Terrible's, but if I had a pre-Terrible's I think I'd be inclined to not get a post-Terrible's. There's a few "anomalies" in my collection ("mistake" is not quite an accurate term) so if I really wanted to be authentic, I should probably kick a few chips out. I already dropped a "Cache Creek" (CA) chip as not being any different than "Cache Creek Casino Resort".

I forgot to include an example in my previous post: I have a chip from the Catfish Bend in Ft. Madison, IA, but the Burlington, IA, location is just the same boat that floated from one spot to another. I'm inclined to consider that "new" and get another chip. I passed through Ft. Madison in 2002 on a roadtrip that ended for the day in Davenport, where I picked up a chip from the Rhythm City Casino before I saw George Carlin perform at the Adler Theatre.

I think I can actually help with your new example. The permanent location of the Catfish Bend casino is in a new building on land about 1 mile inland in Burlington, just off of US61 (Roosevelt Ave). I assume that the combination of the new city and the new structure would be sufficient for you to to re-visit.

Quote: ChipmanSpiff

I have a question for Doc, and possibly others, since the thread is a little slow at the moment. Doc, I know that you consider a name change to be a "new" casino (I do as well) but I'm curious how you handle very subtle name changes. Here's a few examples:

I was absent from the forum last night, and there were some interesting comments made here. I might have to consider that Pacific Coast Highway trip for some day in the future. ChipmanSpiff, I haven't encountered any of the specific cases that you listed, in part because I never got to the particular casinos prior to the changes that you describe.

Two years ago in this thread, I did post a discussion here about some different kinds of name changes and how I have handled them. That discussion was presented as a lead-in to the last item of the list, the chip that I was posting that day. I have returned to that casino a couple of times to try to get the "missing" chip for my collection, but I have never found one.

Country: Colombia
City: Medellín
Casino: Gran Casino

1 US Dollar ~ 1974 pesos

Hmm how should I start? I should start by apologizing for my unorganized writing. I hope you don't get a headache reading this. Also, I've decided not to write a trip report as Doc suggested because I didn't take good notes and don't want to write a sloppy TR. I enjoyed my 9-day trip to Colombia very much. Met a bunch of interesting people at the hostels and on the streets. I won't bore anyone with the details though because I'm sure you want to know about the gambling scene and the chips!

Casinos in Colombia (well, the ones I visited in Bogotá and Medellín) were pretty uninteresting. Mainly because of the lack of craps. And most are tiny by US standards. Actually, most should not even be called casinos because they are pure slot parlors with no table games. To add to the confusion, some of the casinos I went to are chains with multiple locations in the city, with some locations with tables and some without.

There was at least one security guard at all the "casinos" I went to, with the nicer properties having an armed guard. In order to get it you have to go through a metal detector and be frisked at the waistband when it beeps, and open up your purse/bag/backpack for a visual check.

For those properties that do have table games, roulette is definitely the game of choice, with standard payouts and a double zero wheel. Minimums are usually 500 pesos (about 25 cents) inside and 5000 pesos outside. A supervisor monitors the table, sometimes 2 tables and confirms payouts. At one property the supervisor called out the result then the dealer visually confirms it and call it out again. The dealer calls "last bet" about 10 seconds before calling "no more bets."

Other games available are blackjack, and some sort of poker game like UTH with similar betting circles of ante, play, and something else. The player gets 2 cards but for some reason the dealer did not have 2 cards, he only had 5 cards in front of him. Anyway I did not pay much attention to it because I don't play UTH. Mini baccarat is also available. At all seven properties I visited blackjack was dealt from a CSM. Most places (maybe all) did not have a placard with the rules. Cards are dealt face up and the dealer does not take a hole card. Surrender is available but I did not get to see how it works in the case of a dealer ace. Dealer hits soft 17. The smallest property I visited had 2 blackjack tables and the biggest had about 12 tables of assorted games, with roulette and blackjack making up the bulk of it.

In the short time I spent at each property I did not see many people eating, only saw one or two eating a plate of wings (comped, I think) while playing bj and betting bigger (like 20000 pesos and up, which is still only like $10 USD). Trays with soda and juice were brought around the tables from time to time. 1000 pesos is not worth a lot, so this chip type is one of the nicer ones. The 5000 chips and up are nicer like paulson. Some other ones I obtained feels really cheap, like something out of a home poker set.

I forgot which ones had which machines but about half the places I went had the SEGA Royal Ascot and/or SEGA bingo game and the Royal Ascot especially had quite a few people playing. Other than this I did not pay much attention to other machines VP, slots etc.

I must have gone into 20+ "casinos" and other than the really tiny slot parlors most of them had a electronic roulette table with 8 betting stations. There were times where security said they had table game only to find out that it was a electronic roulette. At the casinos with actual roulette table I did not see anyone play the electronic version. I overheard 2 men say that they try to never play it because it's rigged, and that whenever they bet heavy the ball would land on zero.

I will try to post the other chips daily late at night but if someone else has posted something for the day then it's OK, I will save it for the next day.

Oops, I don't think I talked about the Gran at all! Well, the Gran Casino is located in the El Poblado district of Medellín, which is the affluent and gringo section of town. There are many fine restaurants and hotels along the main throughfare Avenida El Poblado, and plenty of nightlife. As such, the casino itself is upscale, spacious, and the staff were professionals. It has maybe about 12 tables, with 3 or 4 roulette and other Colombian standard fare. The denominations were $1000, $2500, $5000, $10000, $50000, $100000, and maybe higher denoms but I did not see it in play.


-Both sides are the same.

Edit: photos re-uploaded.

Nice contribution, Konbu!

This looks like a Matsui chip, based on the shape of the four double edge inserts. They have so many designs that I can't pick this one out of their catalog.

The MoGH chip guide has several chips from the Gran Casino Medellin, including a couple of 1,000 peso chips, but not this one. They show one with a very similar center inlay, except the denomination is written as 1'000 with no $ or similar mark. That chip looks to be the same junky "6-dice" design that was used in the Ocean Gaming chip from New Hampshire that I posted here. I'm glad you got a better looking souvenir.

Now, if I had one of those, I might just try to tell folks that it was a 1,000 dollar chip!

Country: Colombia
City: Medellín
Casino: Rio Casino

The Rio Casino is located next to San Diego mall in Medellín. It's a decent-sized casino by Colombian standards. To the best of my recollection, it has about 10 tables and a Royal Ascot machine. This casino is part of the Winner Group Cirsa (www.winnergroup.com) which is a multinational firm from Spain. Further googling shows CIRSA (Spanish) is a gaming division of NORTIA Corp. Winner Group Cirsa is perhaps a Spanish/Colombian joint venture/partnership of some sort. The website states that this group has in Colombia 2600 employees, 67 “entertainment centers” in the main cities of which 19 are traditional casinos and 48 electronic casinos, with over 6000 slots/electronic games and over 200 table games. The website calls the electronic games “máquinas pagamonedas” (pay money machines) but slots are known as tragamonedas (swallow money), at least that I know of in Mexico and Colombia. That was the first time I saw the word pagamonedas referring to slots and I had a chuckle. I did not trust the “swallow money” machines enough to put even a peso in them.

So anyway like I explained there could be more than one casino of the same name and branding in the country. It happens that the Rio Casino is in Bogota, Medellin, Barranquilla, Cartagena, and Pereira. I collected mine in Medellin playing blackjack. This is the only one I have of $2500 pesos which is worth about $1.25 USD. You are correct if you guessed that I bet $5000 and got a blackjack.



Edit: photos re-uploaded.

Man, that looks as if it was probably a really nice chip in its prime -- an orange RHC Paulson with three triple edge inserts. It shows plenty of wear, though. I tried to check the MoGH chip guide to see whether they indicated when this chip was issued, but they don't even acknowledge that there is a Rio casino in Medellin. They show a Casino Rio in Cartegena, but not in Medellin or any of the other cities that you listed. That's not a comment suggesting I doubt your report -- CasinoCity.com even confirms this casino -- but possibly a shortcoming in how the MoGH guide is organized. They show a chip just like your souvenir and list it as coming from Cartegena without noting that other casinos in the country use the same chips.

That would strengthen my suspicion that all the locations share the same chip design.

Country: Colombia
City: Medellín
Casino: Casino Caribe

According to www.winnergroup.com/casinos/caribe/ Casino Caribe has 3 locations: Bogota, Bucamaranga, and Medellín. I obtained my sample in Medellín, which is located in the busy centro (downtown) at Avenida Oriental and Calle 52. The closest metro station would be Parque Berrío, which is where I spent a good few hours one night drinking cheap beer and talking to old men from the countryside while listening to vallenato music from street performers. I love to immerse myself in local commoner entertainment like this, so that was definitely the cultural highlight of my trip to Colombia.

The property itself is one of the biggest I've seen in Colombia, with about 15 tables more or less, and the requisite Royal Ascot horsey game. Due to its central location the casino felt lively even on a weekday early night (6:30 ish PM), so I can imagine the tables being full on weekend nights.

The letters below the 1.000 looks like "BG"



Edit: photos re-uploaded.

Yes, indeed. The BG logo stands for B&G or Bourgogne-et-Grasset, which is now the European division of Gaming Partners International. We have seen this clover mold from B&G at least once before, on the Naga World chip that I received as a gift from member teliot and posted as what was then the very last chip I had to offer.

I am heading out on a short trip and expect to meet up with another forum member tomorrow on a floating casino. When I get back home, I will update the directory with additional chips that have been posted in my absence.


Edit 3/11/19: PokerGrinder has been touring South America and the Caribbean islands to collect chips, some of which are from casinos already covered in this thread. He posted these chips here, including several new chips from Colombian casinos that were covered here by Konbu.

Quote: Konbu

Country: Colombia
City: Medellín
Casino: Casino Caribe

Thanks for the post Konbu. Are the casinos in Columbia open 24/7? Do they accept American dollars or other currencies at the tables?

Quote: Ayecarumba

Thanks for the post Konbu. Are the casinos in Columbia open 24/7? Do they accept American dollars or other currencies at the tables?

I believe most of the casinos are 24/7 but the tables are likely not. I did not ask when the tables are closed but many places did not have open tables until 2-3 PM on weekdays and 12PM on weekends. US currency was not widely accepted in Bogota and Medellin, well I should say I did not see any places posting their exchange rates but I've heard one can pay in US dollars at hotels, fine restaurants but at a substantial discount to the exchange rate. As for the casinos I did not see any exchange rate signs either and there's no chips in foreign currency either. The largest Colombian pesos bill is 50,000 (50mil) pesos, which is worth about $25. At a casino I will post in a few days I saw one guy take out a big roll of 50mil and bought in at the roulette with half the roll, which was about $500 US more or less. Rather inconvenient. Imagine buying in at a card table with $1000 in 20's (which I've seen in Reno) hahaha

Country: Colombia
City: Medellín
Casino: Havana Casino

Well, guess what? The Havana Casino also belongs to the Winner Group Cirsa and has a total of 13 locations in Colombia (http://www.winnergroup.com/casinos/havana/). The worst thing is I don't remember if I got it in Medellín or in Bogotá! I do remember visiting their location in Medellín at Carrera 80 and Calle 48b so that is where I will claim I got it from. I remember visiting around noon on a weekday and the 3-4 card tables (so no roulette) they had weren't open yet.

One particular note about this chip is that it feels slightly heavier than a paulson or even the Gran Casino chip. If I get my hands on a kitchen scale I will weight it and verify.

This chip also has the BG above Havana.



Edit: photos re-uploaded.

Quote: Konbu

Country: Colombia
City: Medellín
Casino: Havana Casino

...One particular note about this chip is that it feels slightly heavier than a paulson or even the Gran Casino chip...

Could it have a metal "slug" insert to give it extra heft? Were the other denominations of similar weight? The chip could actually be made of clay as opposed to a clay/plastic composite.

The other explanation could be a RFID chip insert, but on that low a denomination, it would be very unusual.

I didn't play with denoms higher than 5,000 pesos. I only got the higher denoms like 50,000 once when I doubled my buy in and went to cash out, so I don't know if other denoms were of similar weight.

Country: Colombia
City: Bogotá
Casino: Rock n' Jazz Casino

Today we are moving to Bogotá where I collected 3 chips. There were 3 casinos I was going to visit in the area. One of them, the Rockefeller was closed with lights off on a Sunday night but I did not get close to see if it was closed for good or if something else was going on. As I kept wandered around I stumbled upon the Crown so of course I got my souvenir.

As for the Rock n' Jazz, the website (http://www.winnergroup.com/casinos/rock-n-jazz/) has it listed as “Rock’n Jazz” (notice the apostrophe) whereas the chip has “Rock n' Jazz.” Yes, this is a Winner Group Cirsa property as well, and it's the last one I will present from. This property is the only one in Colombia (and the other two I collected from) is located in the “Zona G” (G for gourmet) where many fine restaurants are and has a modern feel. I went on Sunday night early around 7:30PM and it was not busy at all. I did not remember any music playing at all or maybe it was set very low. I think I lost about $40 playing roulette and changed 2 roulette chip (of 500 pesos each = .25) for a 1,000 pesos chip before I lost my buy in.



Edit: photos re-uploaded.

Country: Colombia
City: Bogotá
Casino: Crown

According to its website (http://www.crowncasinos.com.co/site/) there are 4 locations in Bogota and 1 in Cali. It is managed (owned?) by CODERE, a Spanish company. It is located in the “Zona T” and not the “Zona G” like I said in my last post. The Zona T is a upscale part of town with nice malls and restaurants, and the three casinos I collected from are located there.

This casino is the nicest looking one out of the ones I visited in Colombia, but not the newest. The newest one I will present tomorrow (or 2 days from now...). The website claims 15 tables, with Black Jack, 21 Spanish, Double Attack, Ruleta, Texas Hold´em, Funny Poker, Draw Poker, Punto y Banca. Also it claims to become (it's not yet? Strange wording) the largest casino in Colombia, with a floor space of 3,800 square meter on 5 floors, more than 205 slots, VIP gaming area, bingo hall. I only stayed on the first floor but it was spacious.

This chip is a bit dirty and usually I like to wash them. However, this one I won't because it has the foil stamp, which is in excellent condition. This is the RHC chip.

Something I observed and have not mentioned yet is when buying in roulette at most places I've been there is a little metal 2-step staircase looking thing that's placed on the table above 0,00 next to the wheel. When people put money down the dealer places it on the top step then cuts out the chips. The money is also sometimes placed on the lower step and I did not figure out why in the short time I was in the casinos. I don't usually play roulette either so I don't remember if we have this in the states. But who could resist not playing some quarter roulette at places 10 times nicer than Jokers Wild right?



Edit: photos re-uploaded.

Is the foil on the stamp all gold, or is it only partially covered with foil? The logo looks half gold and half white on my monitor.

Regarding the minimum bets at an "upscale" casino, is the cost of living that much less in Columbian cities? For example, how much does a bottle of soda cost in the market? How much to buy a car?

Quote: Ayecarumba

Is the foil on the stamp all gold, or is it only partially covered with foil? The logo looks half gold and half white on my monitor.

Regarding the minimum bets at an "upscale" casino, is the cost of living that much less in Columbian cities? For example, how much does a bottle of soda cost in the market? How much to buy a car?

The foil is silver/white.

I did not ask anyone like ordinary people how much they made but according to this document (http://www.bakermckenzie.com/files/Publication/ba82c378-fe84-4521-8c85-ecce12261a82/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/168050ae-e5e1-4f26-9ad2-f93cb2febd34/AL_Colombia_NewMinimumSalary_Jan14.pdf) the minimum monthly statutory salary: Col. Pesos $616.000. ~ $305 USD with a statutory transportation allowance: Col. Pesos $72.000 ~ $36 USD. Soda is expensive for international brands like Coke/Pepsi, goes for about $1 USD for a 16/20oz bottle at the supermarket. About $1.50 for a 1.5 liter, and a 2 pack of 2.5 liter bottles for $4. I did not see any 2 liter bottles there as is standard in the US. Another thing is sodas (called gaseosa in Colombia) are served in little cups by street food vendors as a combo, such as hot dogs, stuffed arepas, empanadas, etc. It's also served warm on the streets. But cheap food is available. In the fruits [wholesale] market in the "food court" I had a bowl of mondongo (beef tripe) soup with rice and salad and a juice for $4000 pesos ~ $2, and in a nicer restaurant I had a bandeja paisa (Colombian typical plate) for $22,000 pesos ~ $11USD so prices are all over. OK I don't want to keep wading off topic but last thing is price does NOT correlate to food quality in Colombia.

Country: Colombia
City: Bogotá
Casino: Luckia

According to (http://viccagroup.org/portal/index.php/encuentranos/bogota/casino-luckia), Luckia is part of the VICCA Group (Victoria Casinos) which is a holding company itself for 3 corporations. This property is new and just opened on 8/1 and had its inauguration celebration on 9/26-27 (https://www.facebook.com/luckiabogota). I collected my chip on 9/6, so it must have been on soft opening. All the equipment was new and the ground floor ceiling was probably 2-3 floors high. With the usual spacious layout of Colombian casinos I felt very comfortable playing there compared to some cramped casinos such as in downtown vegas.

This chip is one of those home poker set type with a silver foil. Nothing remarkable about it.

And with this I conclude my posting of Colombian chips. I see there's no Princess Cruise chip yet so next month when I go on a cruise I shall take good notes and make a more detailed post, Doc-style.



Edit: photos re-uploaded.

Just got back home a little while ago, and I have updated the thread index to include the rest of the Colombia chips posted by Konbu. Thanks very much for this nice addition to the thread.

I posted all but two of the cruise ship chips (sometimes called "wet chips") that have appeared thus far in this thread. I have never been on a Princess Cruise, so I look forward to seeing the chip(s) that you collect. One thing you might watch for when you collect your Princess souvenir: sometimes the cruise line chips will identify the specific ship, and sometimes they only identify the cruise line. On your ship, their might be chips of both types, particularly in different denominations.

My wife and I have sailed on Carnival Cruise Line ships six times (I think), with two of those cruises coming after I had started collecting casino chips. By that time, Carnival had started using the same $1 chips on all of their ships (again, I think) but had ship specific chips for $5 and up. I encountered the same issue with the chip I collected from the Celebrity Century, which doesn't name the ship. If I had thought about it more at the time, I might have brought home $5 souvenir chips in order to get ones that identified the ship better.

State: California
City: Rohnert Park
Casino: Graton Resort & Casino

Graton Resort & Casino opened its doors in November 2013 in Sonoma County, in the famous northern California wine country. According to their website (https://www.gratonresortcasino.com/About-Us) they have 3,000 slots and video poker, 144 table games including Blackjack, Pai Gow Poker, and Baccarat, a live poker room and VIP gaming salons. I will describe my trip below in just a little bit.

As for food options, there are 4 sit down restaurants and a food court with 6 food places, Starbucks, and an ice cream place. There's no buffet, which is a first for a northern California Indian casino. There's also no self-serve soda fountain and I'm too thrifty to tip a dollar for just soda.

I took an Asian bus from the east bay this morning. I sat towards the back close to the toilet so it smelled quite a bit. Travel time was about 45 minutes, probably faster if going by POV. The fare was $10 + $1 (tip) roundtrip, with a $10 free slot play or $15 match play and $5 dining credit from the casino. Back when the Graton just opened tons of buses delivered players to the casino at $10-15/pp with no benefits to players. Not sure if the bus companies got any money from the casino then.

I don't normally play slots but I had to make a walk through the entire property to learn the different games available. As I browsed the selection I happened upon this. OMG Kittens!



I'm not a crazy cat guy but this was just too cute so I decided to play my $10 free play. Upon inserting my players card the machine said I have an extra $5 slot play. I played through the now $15 free play and ended cashing out $28.05, minus $1 to activate the fp. Up $27.05 and feeling kitty happy. I then started looking at the table games. Only about 20 tables were open at 10:30am, but about another 15 opened by the time I left around 1:15pm. Minimums were generally $5 for UTH, $10 for bj and its variants, and $15 for PGP and bac. I finally played some Free Bet BJ and lost about $100 and lost another $150 on PGP. Oh well.




The map shows the layout of the casino. Tables are laid out in different sized pits around the Sky center bar. The only 8 tables I saw (not including high limit room) of mini baccarat is in the southwest corner of the floor in a rectangular pit, just outside of the M.Y. China restaurant. Four tables were open and fully occupied with Chinese/Vietnamese players and by 11am the other 4 were fully open as well, but still empty. There's a PGP pit of 6 tables in the northwest table games area, and right next to it another pit of 8 PGP, 1 BJ Switch, 2 Single Deck 21, and a UTH. Other games available are 2 Free Bet BJ (that only pays 6:5 on BJ), 3CP, 4CP, Double Deck 21 (pays 6:5 as well). All BJ tables had One2Six shufflers with the exception of course of Single Deck 21. All the BJ tables has an integrated peeker in the chip tray holder that I thought was pretty nice.




For those interested in pay tables of 3CP 4CP UTH you may refer to these table photos. The website says they have 81 BJ tables . As for the poker room, from the outside I counted 20 tables but the website says they have 18 poker tables. At 10:30 am on a Monday they had 4 tables going.








There is no craps or roulette in any form, unlike other large Indian casinos in the area, such as Cache Creek, Thunder Valley, and Red Hawk. I read somewhere online about how it might be written into the agreement that they will not operate craps or roulette in any form or fashion. Perhaps someone can confirm this.

As for VP, I look in 2 different machines and the pay for Deuces Wild is 96.8% for 25 and 50 cents, and 97.6% at $1 and 2 and for Bonus Deuces is 97.4 at 25 cents.

Lastly, I used my $5 dining credit at the Slice House Pizza by Tony Gemignani in the food court for a big slice of cheese pizza and soda, which came out to $4.99 after tax. I don't know who this Tony guy is but it was decent pizza for a decent price.



As for the chip, it's one of those nice ones with the words molded on the chip. I also like their symbol/motif.



Edit: photos re-uploaded.

Another nice chip, and a very nice post, Konbu. This chip just has that "look" of a Paulson product, but there is no obvious logo to verify that source. The MoGH chip guide just calls it a "house mold". By any chance do you have access to a UV light to see whether it makes a hidden hat and cane logo appear on the center inlay?

I guess I really should check out some new parts of California for casinos and chips. I don't have any plans to get to the central or northern parts of the state any time soon, but my wife and I will hit the southern part of the state again next month. I still haven't been able to verify whether the renamed Harrah's Resort Southern California has any chips with the new name, other than a "Grand Opening" commemorative $5 chip that I have seen a couple of places on the web. Unlike the way some folks do it, that's not the kind of chip I try to add to my collection. I do plan to pick up a chip from the Tortoise Rock casino while we are out there. Maybe I need to visit Napa Valley and even the Sacramento area. I think my wife could probably tolerate a trip through wine country.

Quote: Doc

... I do plan to pick up a chip from the Tortoise Rock casino while we are out there. Maybe I need to visit Napa Valley and even the Sacramento area. I think my wife could probably tolerate a trip through wine country.

I recently picked up a chip from Tortoise Rock. Would you like me to post the image? I don't mind waiting for yours and your write up. I did note that there were two styles of $5 chips in play, some with white edge inserts and others without.

Either way works for me. My trip to the Pacific time zone will not be until November, returning home late the evening of the 12th. I would not likely be able to get my photos edited and uploaded and a respectable post prepared before 11/14. If you would like to prepare a write-up on this fairly-new casino and post your chip prior to that date, have at it, and I will just post an image of mine when I get back from the trip. Or you can wait, leave the work to me, and just post your chip in mid-November. Whichever you prefer. Unless there is something really out of the ordinary, I will be collecting a souvenir chip in my usual $1 denomination.

Quote: Doc

Either way works for me. My trip to the Pacific time zone will not be until November, returning home late the evening of the 12th. I would not likely be able to get my photos edited and uploaded and a respectable post prepared before 11/14. If you would like to prepare a write-up on this fairly-new casino and post your chip prior to that date, have at it, and I will just post an image of mine when I get back from the trip. Or you can wait, leave the work to me, and just post your chip in mid-November. Whichever you prefer. Unless there is something really out of the ordinary, I will be collecting a souvenir chip in my usual $1 denomination.

I will be happy to wait for your report. I was surprised by the number of houses along the 29 Palms highway, in what is basically the middle of the desert. There is even a pretty large Walmart anchored shopping center. However, there are also many small store fronts,and several gas stations that look abandoned. The Walmart is probably bigger than the Tortoise Rock casino, so the casino is probably the right size for the area.

The art that I was able to see in 29 Palms was looking weathered. It was 105 degrees when I was there, so I am not surprised that colors were faded on everything baking in the sun. The most interesting sight to me was a row of large dinosaur sculptures made of metal, right along the highway; including one that looked like a Brontosaurus covered in gold leaf.

Quote: Ayecarumba

I will be happy to wait for your report. I was surprised by the number of houses along the 29 Palms highway, in what is basically the middle of the desert. There is even a pretty large Walmart anchored shopping center. However, there are also many small store fronts,and several gas stations that look abandoned. The Walmart is probably bigger than the Tortoise Rock casino, so the casino is probably the right size for the area.

The art that I was able to see in 29 Palms was looking weathered. It was 105 degrees when I was there, so I am not surprised that colors were faded on everything baking in the sun. The most interesting sight to me was a row of large dinosaur sculptures made of metal, right along the highway; including one that looked like a Brontosaurus covered in gold leaf.

There's a lot of military there, and the FAA Large TRACON for all of SoCal is in the neighborhood as well. I think most of the populace is military/ military support; there are 3 large bases very close together, with a lot of live firing exercises and off-limits acreage, so what development there is kind of goes into the spare spots; there are a lot more people around than it seems. But I've never lived there, so I'm not that familiar with their specifics, just visited some friends in the area a few times. (Doc; I'll delete this if it's too off-topic for the chip thread.)