Is Tip Sharing Socialism?
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29 members have voted
February 24th, 2012 at 4:35:26 PM
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Most people know that in most (all?) casinos, tips
go into a pool and they're shared equally by all
the casinos dealers. This is a point of contention
with a lot of dealers because they feel they're
'carrying' the lazy dealers who get a lot less in
tips then they do.
Steve Wynn went as far as taking some of the tip
pool and sharing it with the pit crew. Wynn dealers
sued and the policy was deemed illegal last Nov.
Wynn is appealing.
Tip pooling is a big deal inside the industry. The
Wiz calls it 'institutionalized favoritism' and
a form of socialism in one of his
Ask the Wiz columns. (scroll a third of the way down)
I think dealers should keep their own tips, I would
certainly tip more if I knew they got to keep all
of it.
go into a pool and they're shared equally by all
the casinos dealers. This is a point of contention
with a lot of dealers because they feel they're
'carrying' the lazy dealers who get a lot less in
tips then they do.
Steve Wynn went as far as taking some of the tip
pool and sharing it with the pit crew. Wynn dealers
sued and the policy was deemed illegal last Nov.
Wynn is appealing.
Tip pooling is a big deal inside the industry. The
Wiz calls it 'institutionalized favoritism' and
a form of socialism in one of his
Ask the Wiz columns. (scroll a third of the way down)
I think dealers should keep their own tips, I would
certainly tip more if I knew they got to keep all
of it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 24th, 2012 at 4:39:13 PM
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The reason I believe tips end up pooled is that some shifts are better for tips than others, and some games are better for tips than others. So it helps smooth out the random income that might happen if one week you get the evening shift at the $100 Blackjack table, and the next graveyard at the $1 Big Six wheel.
Extreme example, but you get the idea. I think the comparison to socialism isn't a bad one.
Of course, the downside is the opposite effect : one person can coast on the backs of another's hard work.
I'd prefer that the tip I pay goes to the person providing the service. I'd have no problem with a percentage share for the pool, while that percentage is around 50% or less.
Extreme example, but you get the idea. I think the comparison to socialism isn't a bad one.
Of course, the downside is the opposite effect : one person can coast on the backs of another's hard work.
I'd prefer that the tip I pay goes to the person providing the service. I'd have no problem with a percentage share for the pool, while that percentage is around 50% or less.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
February 24th, 2012 at 4:46:50 PM
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Quote: thecesspitone person can coast on the backs of another's hard work.
Its also an excuse for players not to tip. I've heard
players tell dealers they wish they could tip them
but they get a share of all the tips so it really doesn't
matter, they're little $2 tip won't be missed. I think
a lot of people feel this way.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 24th, 2012 at 4:49:46 PM
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To what extent are the tips pooled? I mean what are the time bounds on the pooling. Do they pool the tips per day, per month, per shift, and then split them up to the dealers who worked during that time period? I've never heard the exact mechanics of it explained.
I ask because if a place pools their tips but it's somewhat granular...then I would be more inspired to tip for good service.
I ask because if a place pools their tips but it's somewhat granular...then I would be more inspired to tip for good service.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 24th, 2012 at 4:50:19 PM
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Quote: EvenBobIts also an excuse for players not to tip. I've heard
players tell dealers they wish they could tip them
but they get a share of all the tips so it really doesn't
matter, they're little $2 tip won't be missed. I think
a lot of people feel this way.
I think some of those folks will always find a reason not to tip.
I find the "my little piece doesn't change anything" attitude generally annoying though, whether that's tipping, charity donations, voting or saving a couple of bucks in electric bills. That's just me.
But yeah, if there is an effect where tip pooling is reducing the amount of tips, that could be a reason to take away a pool.
Another advantage of a pool, thought, might be peer pressure/encouragement/coaching to perform better?
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
February 24th, 2012 at 4:53:53 PM
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Wasn't the original motivation behind tip-pooling in Vegas to reduce collusion? Seems like with modern day surveillance this should be less of an issue.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 24th, 2012 at 5:00:31 PM
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Why tokes are pooled:
-Reduces cheating. I've seen this first hand when playing at table-for-table casinos.
-Reduces drama. No more worrying about favoritism when it comes time to assign games. This is a really big one.
-Craps dealers are usually the most skilled in a casino yet it's a low toke-per-dealer game. This evens that out.
-Keeps the IRS happy. Pooling allows the IRS to know exactly what tax to estimate for each dealer. "Go for your own" dealers are either on the honor system or they have to pay an IRS-estimated hourly tax that's usually grossly incorrect. This can be solved by having each dealer drop their own tokes in a toke box they keep with them, then having the cage unlock it at the end of the shift for tracking, but that adds a lot of administration.
-Smooths out the disparity between the high limit area and other areas of the casino.
Yes pooling causes the tokes per shift to drop. It also saps customer service motivation. The casino just exposes itself to too much risk when not pooling so it's become a fact of life. I think "socialism" is a bit too strong of a word though.
Tokes can be pooled by shift or by entire day and the pool may be averaged across the whole week or a single day. There's benefits to each method.
-Reduces cheating. I've seen this first hand when playing at table-for-table casinos.
-Reduces drama. No more worrying about favoritism when it comes time to assign games. This is a really big one.
-Craps dealers are usually the most skilled in a casino yet it's a low toke-per-dealer game. This evens that out.
-Keeps the IRS happy. Pooling allows the IRS to know exactly what tax to estimate for each dealer. "Go for your own" dealers are either on the honor system or they have to pay an IRS-estimated hourly tax that's usually grossly incorrect. This can be solved by having each dealer drop their own tokes in a toke box they keep with them, then having the cage unlock it at the end of the shift for tracking, but that adds a lot of administration.
-Smooths out the disparity between the high limit area and other areas of the casino.
Yes pooling causes the tokes per shift to drop. It also saps customer service motivation. The casino just exposes itself to too much risk when not pooling so it's become a fact of life. I think "socialism" is a bit too strong of a word though.
Tokes can be pooled by shift or by entire day and the pool may be averaged across the whole week or a single day. There's benefits to each method.
February 24th, 2012 at 5:03:10 PM
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Quote: PopCanThis can be solved by having each dealer drop their own tokes in a toke box they keep with them, then having the cage unlock it at the end of the shift for tracking, but that adds a lot of administration.
This is how they do it at my local casinos. Well I don't know if only the cage can unlock the boxes, but I know the dealers carry the boxes around with them.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 24th, 2012 at 5:07:43 PM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsThis is how they do it at my local casinos. Well I don't know if only the cage can unlock the boxes, but I know the dealers carry the boxes around with them.
If you see them carrying a box and there's a lock on the box it's so the casino can track their tokes for tax purposes.
Quote: AcesAndEightsWasn't the original motivation behind tip-pooling in Vegas to reduce collusion? Seems like with modern day surveillance this should be less of an issue.
Sure it's less of an issue, but not much less. Imagine a packed casino with 100 table games going. Conservatively say 30 hands per hour. That's 50 hands dealt every minute. Even the largest surveillance department wouldn't have the resources to cover a tenth of those games in real time.
February 24th, 2012 at 5:10:25 PM
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Oh and another reason is though customer service might be increased on average, the dealers become much, much colder to a stiff in table-for-table casino.
February 24th, 2012 at 5:22:20 PM
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Most casinos split tips per day, meaning the grave, swing, and day make the same. Mine splits it over the 2 week pay period so no matter what day you work you end up with the same average.
February 24th, 2012 at 5:25:03 PM
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The main reason is so the casino is not abetting income tax evasion.
The tips are pooled and the dealers are paid.
It's on the books.
The tips are pooled and the dealers are paid.
It's on the books.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 24th, 2012 at 5:28:17 PM
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Quote: NicksGamingStuffMost casinos split tips per day, meaning the grave, swing, and day make the same. Mine splits it over the 2 week pay period so no matter what day you work you end up with the same average.
Nick, do you find your tips average out to be the
same for every two week period? When I was a
bartender my tips were always around $100 a
week, give or take $5, it was uncanny. That was
in the late 70's and early 80's, $400 a month was a
lot of money in those days, it paid for all my daily
expenses, like gas and food. The women at the
restaurant across the street, which had been there
for 40 years, averaged over $100 a day just for
lunch. Somebody had to die before a waitress job
opened there.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 24th, 2012 at 5:28:40 PM
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Quote: thecesspitThe comparison to socialism isn't a bad one.
Pooling tips doesn't really fit the conventional definitions of socialism:
"For orthodox Marxists, socialism is the lower stage of communism based on the principle of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution" while upper stage communism is based on the principle of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"; the upper stage becoming possible only after the socialist stage further develops economic efficiency and the automation of production has led to a superabundance of goods and services."--wikipedia.com
February 24th, 2012 at 5:42:02 PM
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They convert the total amount of tips made over the 2 week period and divide it by the number of hours worked by everyone to make an hourly wage. It usually runs between $6-$8 an hour. Adding in the 8.25 min wage (since we get no health insurance otherwise it would be 7.25) it averages out to around $15 an hour when working full time is not bad, I can pay all my bills but I won't be doing anything fancy anytime soon.
February 24th, 2012 at 6:48:30 PM
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What if you designed a hybrid system, where 75% of the tips were shared the normal way and 25% were share amongst some top % of toke generators?
You would have to design the measurement of top toke generators based on what tables they worked and how the tokes for their shift compared to an average or expected amount for that same shift. As an example, if the $100 BJ table averages $50 an hour in tokes and on Dealer A's shift it brings in $40 per hour, A is not going to make the top percentage as compared to Dealer B who works the $5 BJ table that averages $15 per hour and Dealer B generates $25 per hour.
Not sure how exactly the system would be designed in detail, but if you made it open & competitive and provided the right amount of incentive and peer pressure to at least hit the average toke rate for that table on that shift, it seems like you would be able to add back some of the positive attributes of table-for-table methodology and still have the property in control of distributing and reporting the proper income, etc.
Plus if you, as a dealer, are only ever measured against what the table average toke rate is for the table you are assigned, you aren't going to get dramatic about table assignments. You just need to be better than average at the tables you are assigned to.
Of course there are problems with pure relief dealers that float from game to game as breaks occur and I am sure a myriad of other issues I am not thinking about, but seems like you could design a system that is better than the zero financial incentive situation that happens now for dealers that pool.
You would have to design the measurement of top toke generators based on what tables they worked and how the tokes for their shift compared to an average or expected amount for that same shift. As an example, if the $100 BJ table averages $50 an hour in tokes and on Dealer A's shift it brings in $40 per hour, A is not going to make the top percentage as compared to Dealer B who works the $5 BJ table that averages $15 per hour and Dealer B generates $25 per hour.
Not sure how exactly the system would be designed in detail, but if you made it open & competitive and provided the right amount of incentive and peer pressure to at least hit the average toke rate for that table on that shift, it seems like you would be able to add back some of the positive attributes of table-for-table methodology and still have the property in control of distributing and reporting the proper income, etc.
Plus if you, as a dealer, are only ever measured against what the table average toke rate is for the table you are assigned, you aren't going to get dramatic about table assignments. You just need to be better than average at the tables you are assigned to.
Of course there are problems with pure relief dealers that float from game to game as breaks occur and I am sure a myriad of other issues I am not thinking about, but seems like you could design a system that is better than the zero financial incentive situation that happens now for dealers that pool.
February 24th, 2012 at 7:12:37 PM
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Most dealers seem to favor shared tips (at least the ones I talk to...the exception being poker dealers)...
The reason being is that if you are a blackjack dealer, the dealer dealing high stakes blackjack is going to receive more tips then the dealer who deals low stakes. The amount of work required for either is the same.
One dealer argued to me that it would suck for those who worked the graveyard shift. I argued back that those working the graveyard shift don't need to work as hard as those working during peak hours. He just kind of gave me a dirty look, so I ended the discussion...
In the end, I would be in favor of non-tip sharing, and rewarding those who work harder with the tables that lead to better tips.
You have a lazy worker? Put him on a game that doesn't get played much, or a 6/5 minimum bet blackjack table.
The reason being is that if you are a blackjack dealer, the dealer dealing high stakes blackjack is going to receive more tips then the dealer who deals low stakes. The amount of work required for either is the same.
One dealer argued to me that it would suck for those who worked the graveyard shift. I argued back that those working the graveyard shift don't need to work as hard as those working during peak hours. He just kind of gave me a dirty look, so I ended the discussion...
In the end, I would be in favor of non-tip sharing, and rewarding those who work harder with the tables that lead to better tips.
You have a lazy worker? Put him on a game that doesn't get played much, or a 6/5 minimum bet blackjack table.
February 24th, 2012 at 7:42:17 PM
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Quote: TriplellIn the end, I would be in favor of non-tip sharing, and rewarding those who work harder with the tables that lead to better tips.
You have a lazy worker? Put him on a game that doesn't get played much, or a 6/5 minimum bet blackjack table.
There's a problem behind that and another advantage for sharing. I once had a dealer who was one of the sweetest, kindest, and dumbest girls I've known. She talked incessantly and was always cheery. She wasn't the best dealer skill-wise but she was fantastic on the fun, tourist filled low minimum tables and carnival games; everyone there loved her. If they weren't pooling she would want to move into the higher minimum tables where the tokes dropped tend to be better. Unfortunately her always sunny attitude wouldn't fit on many of those tables and could become an issue.
February 24th, 2012 at 9:00:46 PM
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Quote: SanchoPanzaPooling tips doesn't really fit the conventional definitions of socialism:
"For orthodox Marxists, socialism is the lower stage of communism based on the principle of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution"
Sound perfect to a tip pool. Each person contributes all their tips from their abilities, and gets paid out according to how much time they put into the work.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
February 24th, 2012 at 10:03:27 PM
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Do any casinos give dealers working high limit tables a bigger cut? Or do casinos ever make exceptions on tip sharing for really high rollers?
For example, say I was a whale, had a great session with a couple of competent fun dealers, and wanted to tip them $10,000 each. If I insisted, would the management allow it? Or would I have to find a work around and have one of my lackeys discreetly provide the tip outside normal rounds? Given the competition to bring in whales, I tend to believe that casino management might look the other way in that instance.
For example, say I was a whale, had a great session with a couple of competent fun dealers, and wanted to tip them $10,000 each. If I insisted, would the management allow it? Or would I have to find a work around and have one of my lackeys discreetly provide the tip outside normal rounds? Given the competition to bring in whales, I tend to believe that casino management might look the other way in that instance.
"Bite my Glorious Golden Ass!" - Bender Bending Rodriguez
February 24th, 2012 at 10:14:57 PM
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Considering whales get whatever they want, I'm sure it could be arranged.
It would just have to be taxed and reported as income.
It would just have to be taxed and reported as income.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 25th, 2012 at 4:06:45 AM
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I know a dealer can be fired for accepting a tip outside of work, if they ever found out
February 25th, 2012 at 4:19:09 AM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsTo what extent are the tips pooled? I mean what are the time bounds on the pooling. Do they pool the tips per day, per month, per shift, and then split them up to the dealers who worked during that time period? I've never heard the exact mechanics of it explained.
I ask because if a place pools their tips but it's somewhat granular...then I would be more inspired to tip for good service.
I asked a friendly dealer at Seneca Niagara. He said their tips are pooled over 21 eight hour shifts, or one consecutive week. They then tally exactly how many dealer-shifts there were, and you get an exact proportion, depending upon how many (usually 5) of the shifts you did. So the Tuesday morning guys get the same tips as the Saturday evening guys.
February 25th, 2012 at 5:07:05 AM
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I can see the "fairness" of tip pooling to help curb favoritism (the same guy or gal getting all the best tipping tables) and also to keep people happy when working slow shifts (they might get virtually no tips on an individual basis) but I think that it would only work to improve customer service--a factor in getting players to come back--if there was also a policy to get rid of the dealers who provide the worst customer service.
We have a lot of "takers" in society and we need to push more to be "contributors"--in a small way asking that dealers perform to a high level of customer satisfaction while splitting the tips with others is a way to make sure that "contributing" is more important than just showing up...
My take on it, as far as "fairness" goes is this--does the casino make the bottom end dealers work to live up to the better dealers? If they don't, it is just socialism and it is also unfair to the good dealers.
We have a lot of "takers" in society and we need to push more to be "contributors"--in a small way asking that dealers perform to a high level of customer satisfaction while splitting the tips with others is a way to make sure that "contributing" is more important than just showing up...
My take on it, as far as "fairness" goes is this--does the casino make the bottom end dealers work to live up to the better dealers? If they don't, it is just socialism and it is also unfair to the good dealers.
February 25th, 2012 at 5:22:59 AM
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Quote: TriplellOne dealer argued to me that it would suck for those who worked the graveyard shift. I argued back that those working the graveyard shift don't need to work as hard as those working during peak hours. He just kind of gave me a dirty look, so I ended the discussion...
I was suprised back when I was thinking of getting into dealing and a pit boss told me that the split is 24 hour because shift-for-shift would let the graveyard crews clean up. Reasoning is there were so few of them to split amnong, and I guess graveyard actually draws some tippers.
I still stick to my 50% "toke tax" idea. Locked boxes like in poker room. You keep half of your drop, half goes to the toke pool.
My reasoning is that your best people sometimes can't be put on the best tipping game. The dead $100 game is a waste of the dealer that can handle the activity that the jammed $10 table has. Do not forget the badwill if someone sleeps hedr way to the best shift.
Yes. Tip-pooling is socialism, but maybe by having it more people learn how evil of a system socialism really is.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
February 25th, 2012 at 5:50:13 AM
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Dealers also share their tips with the Internal Revenue Service. If I tip, I am donating money to the IRS.
I don't tip.....EVER.
I don't tip.....EVER.
"I don't have a gambling problem. I have a financial problem."
February 25th, 2012 at 7:28:19 AM
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Whoa! That opens up a whole other ball of wax. If you don't want the IRS to get a share of the money you give/pay to someone, then I suppose you never make purchases on the open market either. Spend your life on the gray market or in the barter life. It would be a shame to have to pay the IRS a cut for those groceries you would like to eat.Quote: DanMahownyDealers also share their tips with the Internal Revenue Service. If I tip, I am donating money to the IRS.
I don't tip.....EVER.
February 25th, 2012 at 8:07:29 AM
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Quote: DanMahownyDealers also share their tips with the Internal Revenue Service. If I tip, I am donating money to the IRS.
I don't tip.....EVER.
You can't be serious. Every time you get gas or
a haircut, part of that money goes to the IRS. I
don't think you've thought this through.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 25th, 2012 at 8:07:37 AM
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Quote: DanMahownyDealers also share their tips with the Internal Revenue Service. If I tip, I am donating money to the IRS.
I don't tip.....EVER.
You want sauce on those ribs, Dan?
In a perfect world, the most skilled dealers would be receiving the most tips by dealing the games with the most tips. However, this sets up a nightmare scheduling environment and I think would create a great deal of envy and disparity among dealers between the $5 Pai Gow dealer and the $100 blackjack dealer. As well, there is the accounting matter to tracking and paying out tips to each dealer. I also think collusion might be an issue. Yes, there are ways to work around all of that through a fair crew rotation and tracking tips. Perhaps a hybrid solution might be found where tips are tracked per game, per dealer, and the tip pool is adjusted based on some complicated formula. Still, it creates a tracking effort that costs money, and it reduces Customer service to those tables that are historically bad with tipping or to players who might provide the casino with alot of action but don't tip as a policy.
I think that there should be a minimum service level in the casino that the pit should take care of. If the dealer is not meeting that service level, then they shouldn't be dealing, period. Inotherwords, I feel that if you are a dealer and you're pulling your weight, you should be assigned an equal slice of the tip pool. Alot of tips, after all, are based on luck (a $1 tip on a 6 point fire bet yields 4 people $1,000).
Perhaps there might be a bonus system in place where the "dealer of the month" gets a cash reward (perhaps from the tip pool) of say $100-$250 or some kind of prize (spa services, restaurant, other perk), or perhaps a weekly recognition for bringing in the most tips, something like that. Still, that creates inequalities and favoritism.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
February 25th, 2012 at 8:31:08 AM
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When casino's started opening up in the 1990's in Colorado, almost all of the management staff were rejects from Las Vegas. If you had Vegas on you resume you got to hire the dealers. At almost all interviews perspective hires were told they would be sharing tips.
With all shifts and all table games. ( Only had BJ and poker back then ) All the poker players worth a shit walked out of the interviews.
And , as far as I know, all poker dealers in Blackhawk and Central City still keep their own tips.
No union involved, just a case of poker dealers having balls.
With all shifts and all table games. ( Only had BJ and poker back then ) All the poker players worth a shit walked out of the interviews.
And , as far as I know, all poker dealers in Blackhawk and Central City still keep their own tips.
No union involved, just a case of poker dealers having balls.
February 25th, 2012 at 8:37:50 AM
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Obviously taxes are unavoidable as many of you have pointed out; but I will not volunteer to pay any additional tax.
boymimbo- as you already know, I like my ribs with no sauce and a coke.
boymimbo- as you already know, I like my ribs with no sauce and a coke.
"I don't have a gambling problem. I have a financial problem."
February 25th, 2012 at 8:44:56 AM
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Quote: boymimboI also think collusion might be an issue.
Perhaps there might be a bonus system in place where the "dealer of the month" gets a cash reward
Collusion? I doubt that the mechanism that a cheating dealer and his confederate would use would be the clearly visble tips.
Around 10 years ago the hospital I worked at hired consultants to help us improve efficiency in our ORs. I explained that if the salaried nurses and techs worked very hard, and finished 3 cases early, there reward is.... they get to set up a fourth case for no additional money. If they were slow, they would either go home at the end of their shift having done less work, or they could be asked to stay OT to do that 4th case. The 'consultants' couldn't understand that without an incentive, the hourly employees just weren't going to bust their butts. I suggested a monthly $100 gift card to the nurse or tech voted best at keeping their room going, with the surgeons doing the choosing. This was to cost $1200 a year, to a corporation that was in the 100's of millions of dollars in revenue. Administration said ok...... The union, which 'represents' these nurses and techs blocked it!!! It must be collectively negotiated.. blah blah.... it will cause ill will amongst the lazy ones that will never win.. blah blah... if Sally works that hard it will make the rest of us look bad... etc....
February 25th, 2012 at 9:28:39 AM
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And that's the problem with collective bargaining and forced closed shop Unions. I'd happily ban all closed shop Unions tomorrow, and I'm pro-Union in general scheme of things.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
February 25th, 2012 at 1:26:47 PM
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Quote: Toes14For example, say I was a whale, had a great session with a couple of competent fun dealers, and wanted to tip them $10,000 each.....
I had read in another thread that it's acceptable for a player to give a dealer a "gift" in an envelope, and the dealer doesn't have to tell management what it was.
Quote: NicksGamingStuffI know a dealer can be fired for accepting a tip outside of work, if they ever found out
Perhaps, but if the gift/envelope is given to the dealer at the table, or at least in the pit area, management would know, so that should be acceptable.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 25th, 2012 at 1:42:36 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI had read in another thread that it's acceptable for a player to give a dealer a "gift" in an envelope, and the dealer doesn't have to tell management what it was.
I can't possibly imagine that this is true. "Thanks for dealing me the Royal at Let It Ride! Take this envelope....."
February 25th, 2012 at 3:44:16 PM
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I thought that sort of transaction was made to casino hosts, rather than dealers directly.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
February 25th, 2012 at 4:20:04 PM
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If a whale told his host
I want to give X dealer a tip.
I am absolutely sure he would be able to do so.
It would just have to be completely above board and on the books.
It is also likely they would inform the whale that they would want other dealers to deal to him in the future.
I want to give X dealer a tip.
I am absolutely sure he would be able to do so.
It would just have to be completely above board and on the books.
It is also likely they would inform the whale that they would want other dealers to deal to him in the future.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 26th, 2012 at 1:26:22 PM
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Quote: WongBoIf a whale told his host
I want to give X dealer a tip.
I am absolutely sure he would be able to do so.
A true whale? Absolutely.
Quote: WongBoIt would just have to be completely above board and on the books.
It is also likely they would inform the whale that they would want other dealers to deal to him in the future.
A true whale, nope. It probably wouldn't be particularly above board if the host and whale are discussing it. Also, if the whale wants a particular dealer, he'll get that dealer.
There's a famous story of Kerry Packer paying off a cocktail girl's mortgage. He toked the dealers similarly. I'm not sure if they pooled then (this was the late '80s) but even if they did it wouldn't have mattered in his case.
Quote: buzzpaffNo union involved, just a case of poker dealers having balls.
Poker doesn't have the same issues as other table games:
-Collusion is very unlikely since it's player-against-player.
-Generally, any poker dealer can deal any poker game in his poker room so there's no skill issues.
-In a smaller poker room all the dealers will rotate though every game so there's no scheduling issues other than the day/swing/grave difference. A larger room will just divide up the table types evenly.
-Except for the odd jackpot, poker tips are very consistent compared to other table games.
As an added bonus for the casino, letting the poker dealers keep their own tokes speeds up the game as more hands per hour = more pots per hour = more tips per hour.
February 26th, 2012 at 1:40:51 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI had read in another thread that it's acceptable for a player to give a dealer a "gift" in an envelope, and the dealer doesn't have to tell management what it was.
I highly doubt that. In addition to employer rules any state gaming board would take a dim view of this.
And as a reminder, at the casino here no employee is allowed to have any cash on them in the building, ever.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
February 26th, 2012 at 3:14:53 PM
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So a casino is a multimilion/ billion thing, but the dealers must compete between themselfs for the best tips - probably because of the poor payment. This is just great !!
February 26th, 2012 at 4:36:30 PM
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There's already been some good comments, so I'll add my own experience. PopCan said it best why not pooling could be a bad thing. I once worked where the dealer kept half and the other half were pooled. I was often on the craps table, and we would barely drop $20 a person. Then one night the craps crew had to cover a high limit table. But at this property there was hardly any high limit action. I spent over n hour just standing dead. I think the best night I made $60 and at worst made $20 a night.
Where I work now they pool everything. They pool over an entire 2-week pay period. I find this reduces variance quite a bit. In two years I think the lowest toke rate has been about 9.50 and the highest has been 16.50, but most times its between $10-12 an hour. The only reason it will jump significantly is one high roller comes in and tips $5 a hand for the dealer. People would be pissed if one particular person happened to get $1000 that night and everyone else gets $50 or less. Besides, I make just enough to cover my bills as it is, with a little extra for fun money. If my tips fluctuated more dramatically, and couldn't make rent because the players I deal to are having a bad streak and don't tip cause they lose. That's not really my fault that they lose, no matter how nice I am, if I take all their money they won't tip.
So I find that the pooling helps reduce employment turnover. You simply can't stay at a job that has huge fluctuations in pay. Thus if you are constantly getting new dealers, the amount of hands per hour goes down dramatically. The amount of mistakes in players favor goes up. The tables won't make nearly as much money. I think it's beneficial for both casino and dealer that tips are pooled.
Where I work now they pool everything. They pool over an entire 2-week pay period. I find this reduces variance quite a bit. In two years I think the lowest toke rate has been about 9.50 and the highest has been 16.50, but most times its between $10-12 an hour. The only reason it will jump significantly is one high roller comes in and tips $5 a hand for the dealer. People would be pissed if one particular person happened to get $1000 that night and everyone else gets $50 or less. Besides, I make just enough to cover my bills as it is, with a little extra for fun money. If my tips fluctuated more dramatically, and couldn't make rent because the players I deal to are having a bad streak and don't tip cause they lose. That's not really my fault that they lose, no matter how nice I am, if I take all their money they won't tip.
So I find that the pooling helps reduce employment turnover. You simply can't stay at a job that has huge fluctuations in pay. Thus if you are constantly getting new dealers, the amount of hands per hour goes down dramatically. The amount of mistakes in players favor goes up. The tables won't make nearly as much money. I think it's beneficial for both casino and dealer that tips are pooled.
