FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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January 29th, 2010 at 2:36:06 AM permalink
Imagine this scenario:

Ten dollar minimum table. Shooter comes in with a fairly noticeable and rather noisy entourage. Shooter likes to toss tips up to absurd heights which clearly distracts the crew from adhering to normal dice-hawking procedures. Shooter constantly wants the dice brought back to him promptly so as not to "break my rhythm" which ofcourse discourages any examination of the dice by the stick or box to see that they are legit dice because this loud raucus shooter is constantly screaming "Gimmie 'em, Gimmie 'em".

Needless to say, Shooter has very good luck at the casino. Them dice just stay away from seven and the guy is making point after point.

He then goes on to a few other casinos where he and his entourage keep up the same behavior and have the same good fortune. There are no reports of his ever going to other casinos and having bad luck.

What is your impression of this so far?
One... they guy is obviously switching in and out a pair of loaded dice.
Two... it wouldn't happen because:
Guys at a ten dollar table don't have entourages.
Tips at a ten dollar table are never going to be high enough in value to distract the crew.
No crew would allow itself to be bulldozed into such speedy return of the dice.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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January 29th, 2010 at 2:49:14 AM permalink
Now for the "breathing different air":

I've just received a copy of Double or Nothing, a story concerning the owners of the Golden Nugget. I've only read the first few pages so far, but everything takes place as described above: high-flung tips, distracting entourage, ultra-fast pace stimulated by constant shouting of "gimmie 'em". The only difference is that this was at a high roller area of the Golden Nugget and the wins were a bit over one hundred grand per roll.

True they had their best crew there and had cameras all over the place as well as the casino owners staring at the monitors, yet do your impressions change now that you know its taking place in a high roller room?

I'll try to finish the book soon and find out more but I just can't see how the owners of the casino could be so foolish.

I'd never be able to walk up to a dice table and insist the boxman never get up from the table for any reason at all. If a casino is not going to let the Boxman's bladder distract him from his examination of the dice at a ten dollar table, why do they allow it at a high limit table.

Well, I'll finish the book and let you know.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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January 29th, 2010 at 4:48:53 AM permalink
I've seen high rollers at the $10 table so I'd say that part is irrelevant.

I can't imagine that the shooter would get away with using switched dice for very long.

First: No tip is worth putting even a lousy paying job on the line.

Second, if, as you say, it seems obvious that he switched dice, what fool is going to let him continue to use them?

Third, Even if he is at an empty table, and he has only regular bets (i.e. pass and come, or pass and place - none of the high edge junk), it is going to take at least a moment to pay after each roll - more than enough time for the stick to roll the dice to check, as he is supposed to do each roll. And if he IS playing the junk in the middle, add paying off bets those bets and you've got plenty of time to look at the dice.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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January 29th, 2010 at 5:46:56 AM permalink
>Even if he is at an empty table,
He was.
>it is going to take at least a moment to pay after each roll -
>more than enough time for the stick to roll the dice to check
Yes. That is true. I think perhaps his obnoxious demeanor may have distracted the crew from performing their various roles. Maybe it was strictly legit. I don't know. I just felt that no one wins big like that in three casinos in succession. I saw the author's comment about 22 straight rolls being 7,869,881:1 and noted all the game-protection lapses and therefore came to a pre-coffee conclusion of possible cheating.

I'll have another cup and finish the book.
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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January 29th, 2010 at 6:07:57 AM permalink
You'd have to have a mighty set to substitute dice at today's craps table. The policies and procedures have changed enough to prevent this from happening. Probably the biggest deterrent is numbering the dice. It would be easy enough to bring in a set of dice and a good sleight of hand could substitute dice in, but the numbers of the dice, if noticed, would be a give away right away.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!

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