Getting New Computer. Help?
February 7th, 2012 at 7:45:03 PM
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My 2003 HP finally died and can't be recovered. I'm using
my laptop hooked to the big monitor and I need a new
desktop. I only use it for the internet, what should I get?
Are refurbished any good? I see eMachines are cheap.
I'm shocked at how the price has come down in the last few
years. Twice as much RAM, twice the storage, for half
what I paid for the HP in early 2004. I don't use a camera,
my hard drive is always 80% free space, no games, just
the basics.. Looking for suggestions.
my laptop hooked to the big monitor and I need a new
desktop. I only use it for the internet, what should I get?
Are refurbished any good? I see eMachines are cheap.
I'm shocked at how the price has come down in the last few
years. Twice as much RAM, twice the storage, for half
what I paid for the HP in early 2004. I don't use a camera,
my hard drive is always 80% free space, no games, just
the basics.. Looking for suggestions.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 7th, 2012 at 7:48:54 PM
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Quote: EvenBobMy 2003 HP finally died and can't be recovered. I'm using
my laptop hooked to the big monitor and I need a new
desktop. I only use it for the internet, what should I get?
Are refurbished any good? I see eMachines are cheap.
I'm shocked at how the price has come down in the last few
years. Twice as much RAM, twice the storage, for half
what I paid for the HP in early 2004. I don't use a camera,
my hard drive is always 80% free space, no games, just
the basics.. Looking for suggestions.
I'm surprised it's only twice the RAM & Storage and only half the price from 8 years ago. You must have gotten a good deal in '04. Anyway my suggestion is to get the cheapest one you can find if all you want is internet. I got my mom an emachines because she just wanted email and some light surfing, and she's had zero problems in 3 years. Most of the problems with computers is all the other crap you put on. Keep it clean and you can keep it cheap.
February 7th, 2012 at 8:09:34 PM
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When I got my current laptop, I used www.techbargains.com and checked that daily for about 3 weeks or so to get a good deal. The site posts a whole bunch of discounts from different retailers so you don't have to go shopping around, they just do it all for you. If you're just looking for internet, look at the most basic computer you can find as you really wont need too much RAM and/or HD space to surf the web.
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
February 7th, 2012 at 8:18:06 PM
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I have no problems with cheap computers, I've bought lots of them. I had an eMachine, it was OK enough.
A falling knife has no handle.
February 7th, 2012 at 8:23:51 PM
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Quote: EvenBobI'm using my laptop hooked to the big monitor and I need a new desktop.
I only use it for the internet, what should I get?
Can you build your own white box PC? It's little more than putting everything in place and tightening a few screws. You won't necessarily save money over a beige box, but you can ensure higher quality.
However if all you need is internet, and there isn't anything high-performance involved, not even 1080p movies, you could be fine with what's called a nettop. The advantages of these are small size, low noise and very low power consumption.
You can look up Asus EEE Box, like this baseline model.
It runs Linux though, which is fine, but instead of Ubuntu or Kubuntu that sane people use, they went with some custom junk. Unfortunately commercial OS can be a very large fraction of a low-end computer's price. It's best to install a proper Linux distro, it will have Firefox and everything, and you don't need to worry about virii and malware (the risk with Linux is on the order of 1/100 that with Windows).
Presuming you aren't considering other than legit software (in my opinion you have the moral right to reinstall the same OS you've paid for already on a new PC). Either will take some time to perform. You'll also need some effort to transfer your data.
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February 7th, 2012 at 8:35:51 PM
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Quote: cclub79I'm surprised it's only twice the RAM & Storage and only half the price from 8 years ago.
My old one has 512 RAM which I upgraded
to 1024. 120GB drive, a CD Writer which I
never used once. Whats the deal on refurbished
machines, I see Walmart has a bunch.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 7th, 2012 at 8:46:22 PM
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Make sure you
get one with a
screen that's
more than 40
characters wide.
get one with a
screen that's
more than 40
characters wide.
February 7th, 2012 at 9:33:37 PM
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Better quality components than a cheap ready made PC plus a learning experience/fun project for 281 bucks:
http://www.hardware-revolution.com/best-budget-gaming-pc-february-2012/
Never mind that it says gaming in the url, his lowest tier build is pretty much for internet use only. Since you said you didn't use your HDD, you can even save 17 bucks more and replace his suggest HDD with that 32 GB SSD that will VASTLY improve your start up speed (turns out electrons move faster than spinning magnetic disks). That's just big enough to hold an operating system, some basic utilities like anti-virus, and your web browser cache, but sounds perfect for your use.
All you'll need to put it all together is a screwdriver. If you can keep those classic cars in working shape this will be a piece of cake.
http://www.hardware-revolution.com/best-budget-gaming-pc-february-2012/
Never mind that it says gaming in the url, his lowest tier build is pretty much for internet use only. Since you said you didn't use your HDD, you can even save 17 bucks more and replace his suggest HDD with that 32 GB SSD that will VASTLY improve your start up speed (turns out electrons move faster than spinning magnetic disks). That's just big enough to hold an operating system, some basic utilities like anti-virus, and your web browser cache, but sounds perfect for your use.
All you'll need to put it all together is a screwdriver. If you can keep those classic cars in working shape this will be a piece of cake.
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
February 7th, 2012 at 9:41:18 PM
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Quote: P90You can look up Asus EEE Box, like this baseline model.
I have a netbook with an Intel Atom, and youtube doesn't run the best. Even a dual core Celeron will be a huge step up.
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
February 8th, 2012 at 1:16:19 AM
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Is Dell any good? Walmart and Staples has some
good looking refurbished Dell desktops.
good looking refurbished Dell desktops.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 8th, 2012 at 1:49:02 AM
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Do you really want a second-hand PC? How much do you have to spend?
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February 8th, 2012 at 2:46:48 AM
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Quote: EvenBobIs Dell any good? Walmart and Staples has some
good looking refurbished Dell desktops.
I have never even looked into refurbished computers, but I think most of the time they're just computers people sent back because of minor problems.
I know a bunch of people who don't like Dells, but I've been using them for several years (high end ones) and am pretty happy. My recommendation is to go to the store and buy the cheapest one (pay a small premium from internet prices). The spec difference isn't that much on the cheap as dirt ones and if you have any issues you don't have to deal with the hassle of shipping it back to them.
If you were considering building:
When looking for a really really cheap computer, building is usually not your cheapest option. What it comes down to is the operating system... Windows 7 is going to cost you $100 and you're not going to want to reuse XP because everything in 12-18 months is going to require 64-bits. Computer manufacturers like Dell/Gateway/eMachines get a bulk discount on the OS, buying it individually sucks balls. If you can get your hands on a free version then you can probably build it for cheaper... otherwise it's not worth the hassle.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
February 8th, 2012 at 4:29:42 AM
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Quote: ahiromuWhat it comes down to is the operating system... Windows 7 is going to cost you $100 and you're not going to want to reuse XP because everything in 12-18 months is going to require 64-bits.
Sorry for barging in - but nothing mainstream is going to require 64 bits in 12-18 months. In 12-18 years, that's more like it.
Today you'll be hard-pressed to find something that even supports 64-bit mode. Heavy pro software, like Photoshop, 3DS, Maya, CAD/CAE software, and that's about it. A few benchmarks because they have to, some open-source s/w because it's so easy to rebuild. Firefox doesn't even have a 64-bit version aside from an experimental build.
The situation isn't about to change, most software simply doesn't get any significant benefit from being recompiled with x86-64 extensions, or the benefit is too small to bother. It's not like 16 bit where you're limited to a tiny 64kB memory access window.
Don't forget about all the 32-bit copies of Vista and Win7 shipped and installed, and they still ship.
It gets worse from there for 64-bit push fans: Windows 8 will have a 32-bit version, apparently it's the main working beta even.
Even assuming that virtually all the copies of Win8 installed are 64-bit, a mainstream shift towards 64-bit only executables can only begin once Win7 is phased out. And Win7 gets mainstream support till 2015, extended till 2020.
What will really endanger continued usability of Windows XP is the end of Extended Support for it, that is, security updates being released. That will happen mid 2014. Until mid 2014, XP will stay fine. That's still 2 years to go, at least.
Even that's not necessarily the end of it. Server 2003, which is XP, will be supported till mid 2015. Since a lot of corporate machines will no doubt still run XP by then, the same patches may become available for XP. And then the downgrade rights last till 2020; since XP will still be in use, it's possible that MS will extend security support for it again, as the cost of compromising network security will be greater than the reduction in upgrade incentives. This is all speculative, just too early to dig the grave.
Now, in 2021, both XP and Win7 will be truly dead, Win8 on its way out, and then we can start talking about a mass migration to x86-64 only.
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February 8th, 2012 at 5:59:06 AM
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Why do you need a desktop at all? If you only need it for internet (and even if not), a laptop should be enough for most purposes.
If you don't like using the small screen, keyboard or mouse, you can buy a docking station (they go for like $20 on ebay), to plug the peripherals into and be all set.
If you insist on having a desktop, and are price sensitive, do not look at brand names, like dell, sony or hp. The best deal you can get is on ebay for a "no-name" machine, that people assemble from parts in their little shops. Do not look for lots of memory or a big hard drive, these are dirt-cheap when bought separately. It is a lot cheaper to buy a stripped down, basic configuration (perhaps, with no memory at all), and then upgrade the memory and storage as you need.
You do want a 64-bit system. Unlike some people imply, most of software out there (except for, maybe some low grade gaming) supports 64-bit, definitely, all the web-browsing, flash, movie watching and document reading stuff you need. But that is not the main reason. Windoze (you are going to use windoze, aren't you?) is a memory hog, as well as all the software that runs under it (because of the flawed memory model) and every new release will need more and more of it. You may think it runs just fine with however few memory you have on your box now, but try doubling the amount and seeing the difference. 64-bit machine, and operating system is better even when you only use it in a virtual 32-bit mode (which you won't), because it allows a virtually unlimited address space, better file buffering (although, that's less important with windoze, because the filesystem sucks so much), much, much more physical memory than 32-bit. In two words, 32-bit machines is yesterday's technology. Do not even consider them. It would be like buying a Commodore in the nineties. They are also not really cheaper then 64-bit units with comparable characteristics, so there is no reason to give them any consideration at all.
If you don't like using the small screen, keyboard or mouse, you can buy a docking station (they go for like $20 on ebay), to plug the peripherals into and be all set.
If you insist on having a desktop, and are price sensitive, do not look at brand names, like dell, sony or hp. The best deal you can get is on ebay for a "no-name" machine, that people assemble from parts in their little shops. Do not look for lots of memory or a big hard drive, these are dirt-cheap when bought separately. It is a lot cheaper to buy a stripped down, basic configuration (perhaps, with no memory at all), and then upgrade the memory and storage as you need.
You do want a 64-bit system. Unlike some people imply, most of software out there (except for, maybe some low grade gaming) supports 64-bit, definitely, all the web-browsing, flash, movie watching and document reading stuff you need. But that is not the main reason. Windoze (you are going to use windoze, aren't you?) is a memory hog, as well as all the software that runs under it (because of the flawed memory model) and every new release will need more and more of it. You may think it runs just fine with however few memory you have on your box now, but try doubling the amount and seeing the difference. 64-bit machine, and operating system is better even when you only use it in a virtual 32-bit mode (which you won't), because it allows a virtually unlimited address space, better file buffering (although, that's less important with windoze, because the filesystem sucks so much), much, much more physical memory than 32-bit. In two words, 32-bit machines is yesterday's technology. Do not even consider them. It would be like buying a Commodore in the nineties. They are also not really cheaper then 64-bit units with comparable characteristics, so there is no reason to give them any consideration at all.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
February 8th, 2012 at 6:44:32 AM
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Quote: kpMake sure you
get one with a
screen that's
more than 40
characters wide.
Funniest thing I've read all week....thanks kp!
February 8th, 2012 at 6:48:35 AM
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Weaselman: What windows software that you expect EvenBob to use relies on x86-64?
Firefox releases are all 32-bit. At least for now. I hope he at least uses Firefox.
He may need an archiver now and then, these are 64-bit... so he can unpack huge files he doesn't need a little bit faster.
More physical memory - but his requirements only call for 2GB. Even 4GB will just sit around unused.
Price-wise, the cost of going 64-bit for him would be very significant. It's not in hardware, any new x86 hardware is 64-bit. It's in software, he would need to shell out $120 for a new win7 OS, vs reusing what he has now. That is a lot to pay for trivial performance gains that could be easier achieved through better hardware.
The reason for building a white box in his case should be to skip on currently very expensive HDD that are worthless for his purposes and use a small SSD instead. It's a strong enough reason, and such a build won't come with a bundled OS.
That is presuming he is only considering commercial OS with copyright compliance. If installing Linux or using a certain Swedish retailer, x86-64 is clearly the way to go.
Firefox releases are all 32-bit. At least for now. I hope he at least uses Firefox.
He may need an archiver now and then, these are 64-bit... so he can unpack huge files he doesn't need a little bit faster.
More physical memory - but his requirements only call for 2GB. Even 4GB will just sit around unused.
Price-wise, the cost of going 64-bit for him would be very significant. It's not in hardware, any new x86 hardware is 64-bit. It's in software, he would need to shell out $120 for a new win7 OS, vs reusing what he has now. That is a lot to pay for trivial performance gains that could be easier achieved through better hardware.
The reason for building a white box in his case should be to skip on currently very expensive HDD that are worthless for his purposes and use a small SSD instead. It's a strong enough reason, and such a build won't come with a bundled OS.
That is presuming he is only considering commercial OS with copyright compliance. If installing Linux or using a certain Swedish retailer, x86-64 is clearly the way to go.
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February 8th, 2012 at 7:45:36 AM
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Quote: P90Weaselman: What windows software that you expect EvenBob to use relies on x86-64?
The OS :) Read my post above, I explained why it is important, especially for windoze.
No, the memory will not sit around unused. A 16G machine with win7 will run like a decent machine, 2G will be crawling. And this will be getting worse and worse as time goes, getting more sluggish and less responsive with every upgrade to software.
He may not need 16G right now, but it definitely helps to have the motherboard that supports that much. Once again, it's not really more expensive than the inferior 32-bit technology, there is simply no reason not to have it.
Quote:Firefox releases are all 32-bit. At least for now. I hope he at least uses Firefox.
No, they aren't. There is a 64-bit release, that you can install and run on windoze or linux. It yields about 50 to 75% performance improvement compared to a 32-bit version. This is a very big deal. The release is currently in beta, but, that will not last more then a couple of months. FF release cycle is really short (I often wish it was a bit a longer actually :)).
Besides, most windoze users, who need advice buying a computer use IE. And 64-bit IE could sometimes even pass for a decent browser, unlike its 32-bit incarnation.
Quote:Price-wise, the cost of going 64-bit for him would be very significant. It's not in hardware, any new x86 hardware is 64-bit. It's in software, he would need to shell out $120 for a new win7 OS, vs reusing what he has now. That is a lot to pay for trivial performance gains that could be easier achieved through better hardware.
For anyone who finds software too expensive, I have two words - open source. Or piratebay.
Using (legal) windoze and complaining about software prices at the same time sounds a bit silly.
Anyway, most computers come with widows pre-installed nowadays anyway (it's kinda hard to find one without OS, and it is not likely to be significantly cheaper), so the point it moot.
Quote:
The reason for building a white box in his case should be to skip on currently very expensive HDD that are worthless for his purposes and use a small SSD instead. It's a strong enough reason, and such a build won't come with a bundled OS.
I would strongly advice against this. If there is one piece of hardware he does not need, it is an SSD.
What do you call "very expensive HDD" anyway? You can get a Terabyte of storage for under $100.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
February 8th, 2012 at 7:50:18 AM
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I have my 'puters built by a techie at a custom computer shop.
Solid, reliable, optomized to my requirements and reasonable in cost.
Check that avenue: you might be pleasantly surprised.
Solid, reliable, optomized to my requirements and reasonable in cost.
Check that avenue: you might be pleasantly surprised.
"What, me worry?"
February 8th, 2012 at 8:02:03 AM
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Quote: weaselmanNo, the memory will not sit around unused. A 16G machine with win7 will run like a decent machine, 2G will be crawling.
I can't say I noticed anything of the sort in the last upgrade going from 6GB to 16GB, on any of XP-64, W7-64 and Kubuntu. Despite not just using it for internet. After monitoring usage, I even use some of the memory for a ramdrive now.
All mini-ITX and most mATX mobos only have 2 RAM slots, which allows for 8GB, and is enough for light use for the foreseeable future.
Quote: weaselmanNo, they aren't. There is a 64-bit release, that you can install and run on windoze or linux.
ik, I even tried it out.
Couldn't notice any difference in performance for my life though, although I believe the benchmarks that say it exists. Must be like that great new GPU that will upgrade your measly 140fps to a stellar 180fps.
Is it up to 50% now? Last time it was advertised as much less.
Quote: weaselmanAnyway, most computers come with widows pre-installed nowadays anyway (it's kinda hard to find one without OS, and it is not likely to be significantly cheaper), so the point it moot.
Not a white box build.
If he is to buy a pre-built PC, he should buy a nettop. No reason to keep a big steel box doing a nettop's job.
Quote: weaselmanI would strongly advice against this. If there is one piece of hardware he does not need, it is an SSD.
What do you call "very expensive HDD" anyway? You can get a Terabyte of storage for under $100.
Twice the pre-flood prices. Used to be $65 for 2TB of storage.
But that doesn't matter - what good will 1TB of storage do for someone who only needs an OS and a browser? You can get a 64GB SSD for under $100, which easily outperforms a HDD.
Not just that. HDD to SSD is about the only upgrade that a casual user can actually feel. Images rendering in 0.002 seconds instead of 0.003, big deal. Browser starting in 1 second instead of 10, that you do notice.
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February 8th, 2012 at 8:06:22 AM
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Win 7 Home Professional comes with both the 32 bit and 64 bit discs (and I think this goes for any version more 'deluxe' than Home Professional). The OEM version (good for those that don't plan on upgrading processors in their built machine) was 90 bucks when I bought it off newegg last September.
I will admit that my x86 program files directory has more stuff than my x64 programs, but it's not like x86 won't work on a 64-bit OS.
If you add that 90 bucks for Win 7 (assuming you don't use other means to 'acquire' it), that's still 370 for a system with FAR superior parts to any big name budget system. I really think going for that 53 dollar 32GB solid state drive rather than a traditional HDD would be great for his needs, and you won't find that in any budget system.
I will admit that my x86 program files directory has more stuff than my x64 programs, but it's not like x86 won't work on a 64-bit OS.
If you add that 90 bucks for Win 7 (assuming you don't use other means to 'acquire' it), that's still 370 for a system with FAR superior parts to any big name budget system. I really think going for that 53 dollar 32GB solid state drive rather than a traditional HDD would be great for his needs, and you won't find that in any budget system.
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
February 8th, 2012 at 8:22:32 AM
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I would not buy an E machine for the following reason.
I used to own one and I even owned their stock when they went public way back in the mid 90's. The problem was when it came time to upgrade. Even something as simple as adding ram was a pain. They use all of their own configurations of pin sets and cabling making it near impossible to use generic brands for upgrades to their computer.
I used to own one and I even owned their stock when they went public way back in the mid 90's. The problem was when it came time to upgrade. Even something as simple as adding ram was a pain. They use all of their own configurations of pin sets and cabling making it near impossible to use generic brands for upgrades to their computer.
February 8th, 2012 at 8:52:10 AM
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Quote: P90I can't say I noticed anything of the sort in the last upgrade going from 6GB to 16GB, on any of XP-64, W7-64 and Kubuntu. Despite not just using it for internet. After monitoring usage, I even use some of the memory for a ramdrive now.
Well, I don't know what to tell you ... You are the first person I hear say that. good for you I guess :)
Quote:All mini-ITX and most mATX mobos only have 2 RAM slots, which allows for 8GB, and is enough for light use for the foreseeable future.
I don't know what these mobos are (not really a hardware guy), but you can't address more than 4 gig with 32--bits.
That's the main reason to go with 64.
Quote:
ik, I even tried it out.
Couldn't notice any difference in performance for my life though,
Again ... you are the only one I know who claims this. My own experience is opposite to yours.
Quote:
If he is to buy a pre-built PC, he should buy a nettop. No reason to keep a big steel box doing a nettop's job.
Only if he is environmentally-conscious and plans to run it continuously or at least for significant amount of time.
The thing about nettops is that you end up paying more money for hardware that is inferior and less reliable, but looks really slick, saves electricity, and space, and can be plugged into a TV.
Quote:Twice the pre-flood prices. Used to be $65 for 2TB of storage.
I don't know what flood you are talking about, and have never seen a (non-no-name) hardrive for that cheap, but, I guess, you have your sources ... whatever. It goes for about $100 now, so it's hardly "double" anyhow
I am not sure what you mean when you say "SD outperforms HDD" in the context of browsing internet ... 64G is less space than my iPod classic. It seems like a lot at first, but gets filled up with stuff after a few years (especially, with windoze), and then you need to spend days cleaning it up, and deciding what you need to keep, and what should go from those millions of weirdly named files all over the place.
Quote:Not just that. HDD to SSD is about the only upgrade that a casual user can actually feel. Images rendering in 0.002 seconds instead of 0.003, big deal. Browser starting in 1 second instead of 10, that you do notice.
If your browser takes 10 seconds to start, you really need more memory. Or a good antivirus :)
A decent harddrive gives you at least 600MBs, the executable size of, say, firefox, is 50K, plus, say 10 times that for dlls. If your box need an ssd to read that in less than 0.1 seconds, you have problems. If ssd helps to improve that, I would guess, that you are either paging, or got a virus.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
February 8th, 2012 at 9:19:03 AM
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Quote: MrVI have my 'puters built by a techie at a custom computer shop.
Solid, reliable, optomized to my requirements and reasonable in cost.
Check that avenue: you might be pleasantly surprised.
Seconded. There's probably a custom-built PC store that you've driven past a million times but never noticed. It's probably in a strip mall next to a nail salon, with a vinyl banner that says something like "XP 16GB $299" -- unintelligible gibberish unless you have the context. But your best bang for the buck is to go to one of these places -- which are owned and staffed by people who *like* building computers to fit specific user needs -- and talk to a salesperson about exactly what you want. The recommendations you get, and ultimately the machine you get, will be far more tailored to your needs than the prepackaged machines at Best Buy. Plus, you won't be paying for brand marketing efforts -- just the computer.
Edit: why is it that every strip mall has a nail salon?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
February 8th, 2012 at 10:55:08 AM
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I would recommend purchasing a ready to go set from Costco. They typically offer "plus" sized systems (more RAM, larger monitor, software), for a lower price than a Best Buy, and include phone support and an extended warranty for no extra charge.
I have purchased a refurbished desktop (Overstock.com), and have been very disappointed. I ended up returning it after attempting to repair a dead hard drive with a replacement they sent to me that also didn't function correctly. Time is money.
I have purchased a refurbished desktop (Overstock.com), and have been very disappointed. I ended up returning it after attempting to repair a dead hard drive with a replacement they sent to me that also didn't function correctly. Time is money.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
February 8th, 2012 at 11:02:17 AM
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I went from desktops to laptops 8-9 years ago, and I haven't looked back.
Gizmodo's best laptops under $500
Gizmodo's best laptops under $500
A falling knife has no handle.
February 8th, 2012 at 11:11:34 AM
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If you don't build it yourself, I'm going to go with the suggestions to have a local computer shop build it for you. Cheaper and better.
I'm also with P90 on the solid state drive. Start up time is so much faster with SSD and EB has flat out said he doesn't need lots of space.
I'm also with P90 on the solid state drive. Start up time is so much faster with SSD and EB has flat out said he doesn't need lots of space.
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
February 8th, 2012 at 11:35:46 AM
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Quote: progrockerIf you don't build it yourself, I'm going to go with the suggestions to have a local computer shop build it for you. Cheaper and better.
I'm also with P90 on the solid state drive. Start up time is so much faster with SSD and EB has flat out said he doesn't need lots of space.
Yes, but he's also big on cost effectiveness and shouldn't pay for a benefit that might not have value for him.
A falling knife has no handle.
February 8th, 2012 at 11:53:07 AM
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But the 32GB SSD is cheaper right now than a 250 GB HDD. If he left 80% of his HDD from 8 years ago barren, I'm willing to bet 32GB is plenty.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XVN1U8/ref=as_li_ss_tl?tag=hardwarevol03-20&ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=B004XVN1U8
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00461K1QW/ref=as_li_ss_tl?tag=hardwarevol03-20&ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=B00461K1QW
I personally have a 64GB SSD boot drive with windows plus utilities, an internal 1TB for most media/games, and a 2TB USB3.0 external HDD. The SSD just makes booting and shutting down so fast, and he doesn't need all the other stuff nor the room for it.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XVN1U8/ref=as_li_ss_tl?tag=hardwarevol03-20&ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=B004XVN1U8
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00461K1QW/ref=as_li_ss_tl?tag=hardwarevol03-20&ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=B00461K1QW
I personally have a 64GB SSD boot drive with windows plus utilities, an internal 1TB for most media/games, and a 2TB USB3.0 external HDD. The SSD just makes booting and shutting down so fast, and he doesn't need all the other stuff nor the room for it.
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
February 8th, 2012 at 11:57:40 AM
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double post, sorry.
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
February 8th, 2012 at 12:01:27 PM
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Go to your local shop, ask them for a recommendation and price (even if it's a refurb with win 7 loaded).
If he flannels you, walk out and go to next local small business who builds machines. If your town is anything like here there's 2-3 in an easy drive.
Get the spec, and report here if you want a belt and braces. But asking for a recommendation from a bunch of computer techies is like asking petrol heads which car to buy for a simple run around.
If he flannels you, walk out and go to next local small business who builds machines. If your town is anything like here there's 2-3 in an easy drive.
Get the spec, and report here if you want a belt and braces. But asking for a recommendation from a bunch of computer techies is like asking petrol heads which car to buy for a simple run around.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
February 8th, 2012 at 1:48:31 PM
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Quote: P90Can you build your own white box PC? It's little more than putting everything in place and tightening a few screws. You won't necessarily save money over a beige box, but you can ensure higher quality.
However if all you need is internet, and there isn't anything high-performance involved, not even 1080p movies, you could be fine with what's called a nettop. The advantages of these are small size, low noise and very low power consumption.
You can look up Asus EEE Box, like this baseline model.
It runs Linux though, which is fine, but instead of Ubuntu or Kubuntu that sane people use, they went with some custom junk. Unfortunately commercial OS can be a very large fraction of a low-end computer's price. It's best to install a proper Linux distro, it will have Firefox and everything, and you don't need to worry about virii and malware (the risk with Linux is on the order of 1/100 that with Windows).
Presuming you aren't considering other than legit software (in my opinion you have the moral right to reinstall the same OS you've paid for already on a new PC). Either will take some time to perform. You'll also need some effort to transfer your data.
I basically agree with all thats said here, just beneath the suject nettop, is a more expensive dual core atom with W7 32-bit. I would load a good Linux as a separate drive (its on the Linux disk) and then wipe W7. However these "cheap" set-ups need a monitior. I would also look into a netbook 10" screen, you can find a few in the bargain bin at newegg and BestBuy, etc. These have good battery life and can also have W7 wiped after a Linux install.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
February 8th, 2012 at 2:07:50 PM
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Quote: progrockerBut the 32GB SSD is cheaper right now than a 250 GB HDD.
what are you talking about? You can get a Terabyte drive for about $45. Where did you see an SSD for this kind of money? I'd be interested ... in getting a big bunch of them actually ... if this was true.
250G goes for about the same kind of money now - 40-50 bucks, nobody really buys them any more, it's yesterday's technology, just like 32-bit cpus - expensive, and inferior.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
February 8th, 2012 at 2:29:45 PM
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Quote: weaselmanWell, I don't know what to tell you ... You are the first person I hear say that. good for you I guess :)
Anyone reporting a noticeable performance boost upgrading from 6GB to 16GB is either a) using heavy software that actually needs that much ram, or b) has upgraded other components or reinstalled the OS, with also allowance for c) just convinced himself it should be faster.
That amount of memory is simply never employed in low-intensity usage.
Quote: weaselmanI don't know what these mobos are (not really a hardware guy), but you can't address more than 4 gig with 32--bits.
That's the main reason to go with 64.
All new hardware today is 64-bit, so that's not a problem. Though you still can use more than 4GB in 32-bit OS, by using PAE or creating a ramdrive there.
Quote: weaselmanAgain ... you are the only one I know who claims this. My own experience is opposite to yours.
I don't doubt it is there, I just don't know where to look. Both versions used to start up instantly (currently Mozilla seems to have a second-long delay), both take 2-3 seconds to refresh the tabs, everything else is instant, limited by the internet connection.
Quote: weaselmanI don't know what flood you are talking about, and have never seen a (non-no-name) hardrive for that cheap, but, I guess, you have your sources ... whatever. It goes for about $100 now, so it's hardly "double" anyhow
2011 Thailand flood. It was kind of a big deal. Thailand is a major maker of hard drives, and aside from WD one of the factories flooded was NIDEC's, which used to produce 70% of all HDD motors.
HDD dipped down to $65/2TB before the floods hit Bangkok, for latest WD Green and Samsung Spinpoint F4 models. I bought 4 drives that year alone, wish it was more. Prices are expected to come down hard by the end of this year or early 2013, like half the price for twice the capacity.
Quote: weaselmanwhat are you talking about? You can get a Terabyte drive for about $45.
Could you give me a link? I'll buy a couple unless it's a Seagate.
Quote: weaselmanI am not sure what you mean when you say "SD outperforms HDD" in the context of browsing internet ... 64G is less space than my iPod classic. It seems like a lot at first, but gets filled up with stuff after a few years (especially, with windoze)
While windows does suffer from heavy bloating problems (especially W7), it's not that severe. I know a lot of people that have been running 64GB SSD for years without cleaning them up. With cleaning it up, you can do with 32GB, I used to do that back when anything larger cost like a new laptop.
Quote: weaselmanIf your browser takes 10 seconds to start, you really need more memory. Or a good antivirus :)
More RAM does nothing to accelerate browser startup. The time is needed to read all the crap from your hard drive and load it into memory. The only antivirus I know to solve this problem is rm -rf /.
Quote: weaselmanA decent harddrive gives you at least 600MBs, the executable size of, say, firefox, is 50K, plus, say 10 times that for dlls. If your box need an ssd to read that in less than 0.1 seconds, you have problems.
Actually it's 1MB for Firefox 10, 35 times that for dlls, 45 MB for urlclassifier, 20 MB that for other sqlite db's, 5 MB for adblock, 10 MB for other things, and 400 MB for cache. Loaded into memory with a couple dozen tabs, Firefox.exe process takes 300-400 MB.
A decent hard drive produces about 100 MB/s sequential read speed (up to 150), but since these files are not accessed sequentially, the speed plummets to anywhere between 2 MB/s and 40 MB/s.
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February 8th, 2012 at 2:57:26 PM
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Quote: weaselmanwhat are you talking about? You can get a Terabyte drive for about $45. Where did you see an SSD for this kind of money?'
Uh, I posted the link right under what you quoted. But anything 16-40 GB right now isn't that expensive compared to post flood priced HDDs. Sure you're going to get tons more room with a similar priced HDD, but the OP explicitly states that room is not a concern.
The flood is a pretty damn big deal. I got a Samsung F3 1TB for around 50 bucks back in September when I built my computer, newegg currently shows them for 160.
If you go to newegg and choose all HDDs > 1TB and sort price lowest to high, the lowest priced drive is currently 110. For 7200 RPM that price goes up to 125.
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
February 8th, 2012 at 3:06:36 PM
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Shit, and a WD My Book Essential 1TB costs as much as the 2 TB one I got a over a year ago. Damn that flood.
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
February 8th, 2012 at 3:29:16 PM
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Quote: P90Anyone reporting a noticeable performance boost upgrading from 6GB to 16GB is either a) using heavy software that actually needs that much ram, or b) has upgraded other components or reinstalled the OS, with also allowance for c) just convinced himself it should be faster.
I am afraid, my wife does not fall into any of the first two categories, and I would not approve the expense if there was any suspicion of a (c) :)
Quote:
I don't doubt it is there, I just don't know where to look. Both versions used to start up instantly (currently Mozilla seems to have a second-long delay), both take 2-3 seconds to refresh the tabs, everything else is instant, limited by the internet connection.
For me, it is mostly rendering and ui responsiveness.
Quote:
Could you give me a link? I'll buy a couple it unless it's a Seagate.
here you go
Quote:
More RAM does nothing to accelerate browser startup.
Except when you are paging. Then it goes miles.
Quote:The time is needed to read all the crap from your hard drive and load it into memory. The only antivirus I know to solve this problem is rm -rf /.
It does not take 10 seconds to read 500K from the slowest hard drive you can find. That's definitely not where the time is spent.
Quote:
Actually it's 1MB for Firefox 10, 35 times that for dlls, 45 MB for urlclassifier, 20 MB that for other sqlite db's, 5 MB for adblock, 10 MB for other things, and 400 MB for cache. Loaded into memory with a couple dozen tabs, Firefox.exe process takes 300-400 MB.
Yes, resident size is 300-400meg, that is mostly dynamically allocated memory, plus stack. Stuff read from disk is well under a meg for code, chrome and config (cache is never read on startup).
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
February 8th, 2012 at 3:43:49 PM
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Quote: weaselman
On back order, and most likely would not be available at that price if they did have them.
If you actually go straight to their storage section and look at 1TB drives priced low to high, you get this
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
February 8th, 2012 at 3:52:29 PM
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Quote: weaselmanFor me, it is mostly rendering and ui responsiveness.
So give me an example link where I have to go to have it rendered any slower than instantly. Or to have UI respond any slower than instantly.
Quote: weaselman
"This product is on backorder". They don't have it.
Quote: weaselmanExcept when you are paging. Then it goes miles.
Yes. But even under most severe load, Firefox process can take 1GB, if you really overstep it, 1.5GB. Nowhere near filling up 4GB, even minus all the OS stuff.
Quote: weaselmanYes, resident size is 300-400meg, that is mostly dynamically allocated memory, plus stack. Stuff read from disk is well under a meg for code, chrome and config (cache is never read on startup).
How did you measure it?
A freshly started (I just closed and reopened it) Firefox with 10 tabs reports 176 MB read from disk and 90 MB written to disk.
By the time I checked the nonexistent HDD and finished typing this post, it increased to 212 and 123... 128... no, 131 MB respectively.
Although where HDD fall short is IOPS, not linear speed. Starting Firefox took 5,035 read IO and 1,900 write IO operations.
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February 8th, 2012 at 4:53:14 PM
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Quote: P90A freshly started (I just closed and reopened it) Firefox with 10 tabs reports .
What is it that makes Firefox superior? Is it the tabs
feature? I've been using it for several years and thats
really the only difference I see. And it highlites misspelled
words in any text I'm writing.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 8th, 2012 at 4:59:39 PM
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Quote: EvenBobWhat is it that makes Firefox superior? Is it the tabs
feature? I've been using it for several years and thats
really the only difference I see. And it highlites misspelled
words in any text I'm writing.
Firefox has a pretty good HTML and javascript renderer inside it. So it works with some pages quite well and fast. All the browsers are tabbed these days, and have spelling highlighting.
Firefox also has a pretty good range of add-ons and helpers (ad block and many others). If you don't use 'em, or care... don't matter none. I prefer Chrome as it is slightly better at managing the memory and sandboxing itself away when executing scripts (and trust me, a lot of sites are running javascript and other such stuff to give you a better web browsing experience... it's all part of HTML 5, and in-browsers apps).
But it's like comparing three standard compact cars.... there's differences, but if all you do is drive the shops, you only really care about the trunk space and if the seat is comfortable for you.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
February 8th, 2012 at 5:02:52 PM
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It's the extensions. You can have your tabs tiered in multiple rows (TabMixPlus). You can block ads, which works in Firefox better than in other browsers, or block scripts you don't like. You can ensure half-typed posts are never be lost, and search through and recall from everything you've ever typed, should you wish to.
Aside from extensions, it's just a very good browser. And automatic history search in Firefox is the best. Say, if I want to go to this site, I just type "ve" (as in vegas), down, enter. And it remembers everything at first visit.
edit: Re: chrome - I've used chrome as a side browser for a while. It's got a little more "standard" behaviors, which helps sometimes. But adblocking doesn't work well there, history search doesn't seem to remember anything, and one day I noticed it had grown up to take over 1,100 MB between its various subfolders, even after clearing the cache.
That's a browser that I only ever used for a few fairly simple sites (that it renders better than others). So I nuked the bloatware. My backup browser is now IE, it may be the worst overall, but it's the one poorly built sites are tested on.
Aside from extensions, it's just a very good browser. And automatic history search in Firefox is the best. Say, if I want to go to this site, I just type "ve" (as in vegas), down, enter. And it remembers everything at first visit.
edit: Re: chrome - I've used chrome as a side browser for a while. It's got a little more "standard" behaviors, which helps sometimes. But adblocking doesn't work well there, history search doesn't seem to remember anything, and one day I noticed it had grown up to take over 1,100 MB between its various subfolders, even after clearing the cache.
That's a browser that I only ever used for a few fairly simple sites (that it renders better than others). So I nuked the bloatware. My backup browser is now IE, it may be the worst overall, but it's the one poorly built sites are tested on.
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February 8th, 2012 at 5:19:35 PM
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AdBlock alone is a good reason to use a browser with extensions, I barely see any ads anymore (don't worry, Wiz, Bovada banners are still showing up!). Even ads on youtube videos are gone....with hulu instead of commercials you just get to see a blank screen for 30 seconds).
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
February 8th, 2012 at 5:21:15 PM
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Is adblock automatic or do I have to
activate it?
activate it?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 8th, 2012 at 5:32:25 PM
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You have to install it. Click Firefox->Addons, then click Get Addons, type AdBlockPlus.
But it's simple, and once installed, it just works. If there is an ad it doesn't block, you can right-click it to block.
But it's simple, and once installed, it just works. If there is an ad it doesn't block, you can right-click it to block.
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February 8th, 2012 at 5:32:59 PM
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[ dp ]
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February 8th, 2012 at 7:17:43 PM
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Quote: P90You have to install it. Click Firefox->Addons, then click Get Addons, type AdBlockPlus.
But it's simple, and once installed, it just works. If there is an ad it doesn't block, you can right-click it to block.
Just a simple addition to this, you do need to have a 'list subscription' of which it gives you several options when you first install it. It used to default to 'EasyList (English)', the best in my opinion but now defaults to something called 'FanBoys List'. It takes 2 seconds to switch to EasyList and then bam, most ads are gone.
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
February 8th, 2012 at 7:35:06 PM
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Quote: progrockerAdBlock alone is a good reason to use a browser with extensions, I barely see any ads anymore (don't worry, Wiz, Bovada banners are still showing up!). Even ads on youtube videos are gone....with hulu instead of commercials you just get to see a blank screen for 30 seconds).
I assume that's because the Bodog ads aren't served from a host but are deeply integrated into the webpage itself.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
February 8th, 2012 at 7:43:23 PM
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It blocks them just fine. How Adblock works is it downloads a long list of advertisement networks and blocks their images. Bodog ads here are custom to the site, hosted on the same server, in the same domain, so of course they aren't on the list. But you can add images to block manually.
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