Question for the AP crew (roulette)
January 24th, 2012 at 8:27:25 PM
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I assume most of us here are adults, lets check the 'down with Ken' comments at the door (or dont, I dont care, bring it on).
Its a simple question, dont panic, its mainly for the roulette players but I guess anyone can answer. Give me an estimate, how many days (or weeks, whatever) you put into studying/testing/playing roulette methods. If its NO time invested, thats fine. Lets try and avoid the BS answer....."I played methods for years until I saw the light". (I'm only curious about this guys/gals)
Ken
Its a simple question, dont panic, its mainly for the roulette players but I guess anyone can answer. Give me an estimate, how many days (or weeks, whatever) you put into studying/testing/playing roulette methods. If its NO time invested, thats fine. Lets try and avoid the BS answer....."I played methods for years until I saw the light". (I'm only curious about this guys/gals)
Ken
January 24th, 2012 at 8:30:48 PM
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I don't play roulette unless it's for quarters at El Cortez.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
January 24th, 2012 at 8:34:53 PM
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Quote: teddysI don't play roulette unless it's for quarters at El Cortez.
Thank you. Its a good, clean, polite answer.
Ken
January 24th, 2012 at 9:25:02 PM
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I am far from an AP, but i do like to play. Usually at a .50or1.00 table, and with what i have come to play is a way that makes a small $40-50 buy in last a long time and maybe win some. That said, I don't think that I have ever won more than 200 from the game at any point(yea, low-rollers)
and a few times i have lost the buy in, oh well.
What I came up with was at like 3am in reno a few years ago. I was staying at the sands in a very cheap $30 room, and i had gone down to play because i couldn't sleep. They had a .25 game going and i thought that was great so i bought in and just played around with the game until i got the hang of it. That's how i came up with my roulette playing, and it really has no rhyme or reason but it is fun.
Seems like you may be asking"how long did it take to develop a good playing strategy"???
I kinda think it may be like sports where some people have to constantly practice skills to avoid losing them, and other people just have a natural talent.
just my .02
and a few times i have lost the buy in, oh well.
What I came up with was at like 3am in reno a few years ago. I was staying at the sands in a very cheap $30 room, and i had gone down to play because i couldn't sleep. They had a .25 game going and i thought that was great so i bought in and just played around with the game until i got the hang of it. That's how i came up with my roulette playing, and it really has no rhyme or reason but it is fun.
Seems like you may be asking"how long did it take to develop a good playing strategy"???
I kinda think it may be like sports where some people have to constantly practice skills to avoid losing them, and other people just have a natural talent.
just my .02
January 24th, 2012 at 9:36:26 PM
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"Seems like you may be asking "how long did it take to develop a good playing strategy"? >>> Well, not really. Its mainly for the guys that dont play but tried playing/testing at some point. Just curious how long they did so before GIVING UP?
Ken
Ken
January 25th, 2012 at 4:41:56 AM
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Even with your clarification, I'm not really sure what you're asking.
I've been told of Roulette systems / strategies and then try them on my next visit. So I guess the amount of time I've spend studying / investigating them could be measured in hours, and I would only need a few fingers on one hand to count the total hours for all the different Roulette strategies I've tried.
Does that answer the question?
I've been told of Roulette systems / strategies and then try them on my next visit. So I guess the amount of time I've spend studying / investigating them could be measured in hours, and I would only need a few fingers on one hand to count the total hours for all the different Roulette strategies I've tried.
Does that answer the question?
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
January 25th, 2012 at 5:07:09 AM
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The answer is 0, Ken. Don't waste your time.
There were many people in the past who wasted their whole lives on trying to build a perpetual motion machine. Were they wiser than those who were satisfied with the theoretical impossibility and invested their time into something more fruitful or were they just crazy weirdos?
There were many people in the past who wasted their whole lives on trying to build a perpetual motion machine. Were they wiser than those who were satisfied with the theoretical impossibility and invested their time into something more fruitful or were they just crazy weirdos?
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
January 25th, 2012 at 8:59:14 AM
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When I was much younger a made a few trips to the casino to try and 'beat' roulette. That didn't last long, maybe <10 hours total. Now I am AP, focused on BJ, Spanish, and the occasional angle.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
January 25th, 2012 at 9:05:25 AM
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Also 0. And I'm still unsure why Ken thinks that there are roulette advantage players on this board.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
January 25th, 2012 at 9:07:03 AM
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When I was much younger, I reasoned that a given croupier would have a consistently physical release and therefore would lead to a reasonably consistent traverse angle -- the angle on the wheel between the ball's release point and the ball's landing point (regardless of the underlying numbers on the wheel at the time). So I stood by a roulette wheel for an hour and determined that this was a very wrong conclusion -- the traverse angle was all over the place. I learned later that dealers are trained to vary their release speeds, and therefore the traverse angle is unpredictable from just the release point. You'd also need to examine the ball speed and several other factors, all of which would require computational abilities beyond the ability of a human mind. It's definitely a solvable problem (c.f. The Newtonian Casino) but not without a computer which would make it illegal.
I don't believe I've made more than a dozen roulette bets since then. But my answer to the actual question is "less than one day".
I don't believe I've made more than a dozen roulette bets since then. But my answer to the actual question is "less than one day".
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
January 25th, 2012 at 9:50:14 AM
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Quote: rdw4potusAlso 0. And I'm still unsure why Ken thinks that there are roulette advantage players on this board.
This board doesn't mean YOUR board. As long as we're clear on that.
Ken
January 25th, 2012 at 10:07:29 AM
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Quote: mrjjjQuote: rdw4potusAlso 0. And I'm still unsure why Ken thinks that there are roulette advantage players on this board.
This board doesn't mean YOUR board. As long as we're clear on that.
For the record, I agree with rdw4potus, and am totally unclear about what mrjjj is objecting to, or what the clarification is.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
January 25th, 2012 at 10:14:14 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearFor the record, I'm totally unclear about what you're objecting to, or what your clarification is.
Its always so tricky here. Meaning, its not exclusively an AP board, if people dont like that, tough. Its a board for *ALL* views of gambling.
The signs are sometimes easy to spot. Attack the hell out of the guy who is NOT 'with us along party lines' and we'll make him leave on his own, he won't even need to be banned. (lol) Not this guy, I wear my heart on my sleeve. To be real honest, I laugh my sick a** off at some of the posts here from the pro's.
Ken
January 25th, 2012 at 10:22:56 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearFor the record, I agree with rdw4potus, and am totally unclear about what mrjjj is objecting to, or what the clarification is.
I have no idea what he is talking about most of the time. I am not sure there is more than two people who claim to make money on roulette on this board, and only one who claims "Advantage Play" at Roulette of the form mrjjj calls AP.
But the rest of us are sheep and only give the same opinion as everyone else because we are sheep (and not because we might, just maybe, all agree on something).
Just my OPINION (lol).
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
January 25th, 2012 at 10:29:14 AM
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you crack me up :)Quote: thecesspitJust my OPINION (lol).
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
January 25th, 2012 at 2:41:21 PM
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Short answer: 21 hours.
Full rambling answer: I like to think of myself as a very low-rolling risk averse AP. I tracked my gambling winnings and losses meticulously since 2005. I'd taken up gambling in 2003, and only played games when I had an advantage, almost always because of A) promotion coupons, or B) I was a better poker player than most of the table.
In the latter case, my poker skills stayed mediocre as the poker boom fizzled, and as the weaker players left, I'm now one of the weaker players, and am down overall at poker over my lifetime. In the former case, I profited greatly from a local casino that offered two $10 match plays each day. They didn't have player tracking cards, and they didn't define "day", so I played a few hands of pai gow poker each morning before work and each evening on the way home, with different crews. The year that I did this regularly, with four $10 match plays each day for 20+ days a month, was the most profitable year of advantage play I've had.
They closed down (not a surprise, really), and I switched to a more inconvenient casino which had player tracking and handed out a $10 and a $15 match play each day, once the pit boss saw you playing for a few minutes. I played more hands of PGP here, waiting for the match plays, and frequently made the $1 side bets, knowing that they were negative expectation bets but figuring I was giving the casino some extra play and enticement to keep me around. Because of the inconvenient location, because I was getting bored with it, and because a lot of my money was going back to the casino in the side bets and extra hands, I gave up on it.
Since I started gambling, I knew roulette to be a game with a big house edge. I also really enjoy it, but realize it's my weakness and a money pit. My first real casino trip was to Reno, where I played and lost on the 00 wheel at Circus Circus, and came out well ahead at the single-zero wheel at Cal-Neva. I've been to Vegas several times since, and played the lowest limit tables I could find -- specifically, Sahara and El Cortez. My system was to bet as little as possible, so that I'd lose as little as possible. It worked. I'd win sometimes, lose more often, and had fun, but understood that overall, it's a losing proposition. Last time I was in Vegas, I sought out the Riviera single-zero table, was frustrated to see that it's a high-for-me $10 minimum, but still played for about an hour, losing only about $15.
I then discovered the roulette wheel at the local indian casino, where the more you play, the more freeplay you get from them the next month. The roulette wheel is pretty gunked up, so I figured if there's a chance that a gunky pocket is more or less likely to capture the ball than a non-gunky pocket, it made sense to bet the most recent numbers hit. Sadly for me, that strategy worked the first few times. I played more, still near the bottom of the table limits, but the numbers at the end of 2011 show that it's my biggest loss year to date, and it's almost all attributable to roulette (and not getting the advantage of the local match play). The indian casino's free play offset it a little, but not enough, because I lack discipline and often end up feeding it through the slots on the way out the door.
So, to answer your question, I spent about six hours in the early part of the 2000's learning about house edge and roulette, determined it was a losing bet, and then played anyway, because it's worth $8 an hour for the entertainment (30 spins/hour x $5 bet/spin x house edge). And in late 2010 and early 2011, I spent several hours at the table (say, 15 hours over two months) testing my "gunky pocket" theory. Today, knowing that it's not going to overcome the 5.26% house edge, I still play that way, because even though I'm certain I'm still going to lose in the long run, I've got to pick numbers somehow, and if it knocks only 0.5% off of that, it's still a little bit, and maybe my $8 per hour entertainment charge is now $7.25.
Full rambling answer: I like to think of myself as a very low-rolling risk averse AP. I tracked my gambling winnings and losses meticulously since 2005. I'd taken up gambling in 2003, and only played games when I had an advantage, almost always because of A) promotion coupons, or B) I was a better poker player than most of the table.
In the latter case, my poker skills stayed mediocre as the poker boom fizzled, and as the weaker players left, I'm now one of the weaker players, and am down overall at poker over my lifetime. In the former case, I profited greatly from a local casino that offered two $10 match plays each day. They didn't have player tracking cards, and they didn't define "day", so I played a few hands of pai gow poker each morning before work and each evening on the way home, with different crews. The year that I did this regularly, with four $10 match plays each day for 20+ days a month, was the most profitable year of advantage play I've had.
They closed down (not a surprise, really), and I switched to a more inconvenient casino which had player tracking and handed out a $10 and a $15 match play each day, once the pit boss saw you playing for a few minutes. I played more hands of PGP here, waiting for the match plays, and frequently made the $1 side bets, knowing that they were negative expectation bets but figuring I was giving the casino some extra play and enticement to keep me around. Because of the inconvenient location, because I was getting bored with it, and because a lot of my money was going back to the casino in the side bets and extra hands, I gave up on it.
Since I started gambling, I knew roulette to be a game with a big house edge. I also really enjoy it, but realize it's my weakness and a money pit. My first real casino trip was to Reno, where I played and lost on the 00 wheel at Circus Circus, and came out well ahead at the single-zero wheel at Cal-Neva. I've been to Vegas several times since, and played the lowest limit tables I could find -- specifically, Sahara and El Cortez. My system was to bet as little as possible, so that I'd lose as little as possible. It worked. I'd win sometimes, lose more often, and had fun, but understood that overall, it's a losing proposition. Last time I was in Vegas, I sought out the Riviera single-zero table, was frustrated to see that it's a high-for-me $10 minimum, but still played for about an hour, losing only about $15.
I then discovered the roulette wheel at the local indian casino, where the more you play, the more freeplay you get from them the next month. The roulette wheel is pretty gunked up, so I figured if there's a chance that a gunky pocket is more or less likely to capture the ball than a non-gunky pocket, it made sense to bet the most recent numbers hit. Sadly for me, that strategy worked the first few times. I played more, still near the bottom of the table limits, but the numbers at the end of 2011 show that it's my biggest loss year to date, and it's almost all attributable to roulette (and not getting the advantage of the local match play). The indian casino's free play offset it a little, but not enough, because I lack discipline and often end up feeding it through the slots on the way out the door.
So, to answer your question, I spent about six hours in the early part of the 2000's learning about house edge and roulette, determined it was a losing bet, and then played anyway, because it's worth $8 an hour for the entertainment (30 spins/hour x $5 bet/spin x house edge). And in late 2010 and early 2011, I spent several hours at the table (say, 15 hours over two months) testing my "gunky pocket" theory. Today, knowing that it's not going to overcome the 5.26% house edge, I still play that way, because even though I'm certain I'm still going to lose in the long run, I've got to pick numbers somehow, and if it knocks only 0.5% off of that, it's still a little bit, and maybe my $8 per hour entertainment charge is now $7.25.
January 25th, 2012 at 4:17:38 PM
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s2dbaker, thecesspit etc......the pro's here, correct? If you guys represent professionals, Vegas will survive. (LMAO)
Ken
Ken
January 25th, 2012 at 4:27:16 PM
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@Travisl >> Thanks.....a very well thought out answer and polite. A few members here could learn a thing or two from you. Thank you for your time.
Ken
Ken
January 25th, 2012 at 4:58:49 PM
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Quote: mrjjjs2dbaker, thecesspit etc......the pro's here, correct? If you guys represent professionals, Vegas will survive. (LMAO)
Ken
Wrong answer. LOL. I never said I was a pro.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
January 25th, 2012 at 6:12:12 PM
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Quote: thecesspitWrong answer. LOL. I never said I was a pro.
You sure talk like one (now thats comedy), my mistake sir.
Ken
January 25th, 2012 at 7:50:11 PM
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You're absolutely right Ken. I guess I've been pwned again. There's just no competing with a braintrust like the one you possess. I sure wish I were you.Quote: mrjjjs2dbaker, thecesspit etc......the pro's here, correct? If you guys represent professionals, Vegas will survive. (LMAO)
Ken
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
January 25th, 2012 at 8:05:37 PM
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Quote: s2dbakerYou're absolutely right Ken. I guess I've been pwned again. There's just no competing with a braintrust like the one you possess. I sure wish I were you.
You sound upset? Good, you should be. Try using some manners on the board here. This board is for everyone, get off your high horse.
Ken
January 25th, 2012 at 8:34:53 PM
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Quote: mrjjjYou sound upset? Good, you should be. Try using some manners on the board here. This board is for everyone, get off your high horse.
Ken
yep, it's for everyone. Even the AP roulettle players that aren't actually here. (cough) (lol)
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
