DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 22nd, 2012 at 6:29:27 PM permalink
Using license fees as the benchmark is wrong.

Pai Gow Poker was never patented, so it's inventor never got a dime in fees.

There are several games that are considered mainstream that still incur fees.
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EvenBob
EvenBob
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January 22nd, 2012 at 6:35:18 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

There are several games that are considered mainstream that still incur fees.



Like what?
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Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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January 22nd, 2012 at 6:54:24 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Using license fees as the benchmark is wrong.

Pai Gow Poker was never patented, so it's inventor never got a dime in fees.

There are several games that are considered mainstream that still incur fees.


Three Card Poker? - huge fees - and worth every penny.
Variants or brands of non-patented games can be patented as to specific added features.
Again, if the overall profit versus cost is good, then that decides.
Good games get action. 3CP works. EZ pg, so far, so good.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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January 22nd, 2012 at 8:19:05 PM permalink
Elliot Jacobson says:

"Also, variations of existing names are a good choice: "EZ Pai Gow" and "Three Card Blackjack" are compelling names. The name is just about as important as the rest of the game put together -- you are creating a brand."

With these new carnival games, you're creating a brand,
you're not lumped together with the games you're named
after. You have to pass the test of longevity before you're
considered a mainstay game. EZ Bac was in a local casino
for exactly 3 months before the Asian boycott made them
pull it. It was its own brand, just because it had 'baccarat'
attached to it didn't mean it got a free ride.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
EvenBob
EvenBob
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January 22nd, 2012 at 8:32:37 PM permalink
EZ Pai Gow Poker Player Wins More Than $120,000 at Barona Resort & Casino

Is this for real or just hype to advertise a casino.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
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January 22nd, 2012 at 8:37:53 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Elliot Jacobson says:

"Also, variations of existing names are a good choice: "EZ Pai Gow" and "Three Card Blackjack" are compelling names. The name is just about as important as the rest of the game put together -- you are creating a brand."

So what do you think of the name 'Cameltoe Poker'?
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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January 22nd, 2012 at 9:24:51 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

EZ Pai Gow Poker Player Wins More Than $120,000 at Barona Resort & Casino

Is this for real or just hype to advertise a casino.


It's real. Another player hit for $170,000 at the Cannery in Vegas.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
P90
P90
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January 23rd, 2012 at 2:33:10 AM permalink
A Roulette, Blackjack or Baccarat player would have to bet that much per hand to be mentioned in a press report...

BTW, while at that, are there any notable 3CP or PGP very high limit tables (permanent)?
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fremont4ever
fremont4ever
Joined: Nov 24, 2009
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January 23rd, 2012 at 3:40:03 AM permalink
I thought I knew what carnival games were, but this thread has helped me change my thinking. What of the other, other games people play in casinos - like poker, the sports/race book, keno, and bingo? I would say set them aside and not evaluate them on this scale.

As for the current "big four" (or five, or six, or seven) casino games being immutable, I say don't be silly. Faro used to be popular back when the world was in black and white. Variation games come and go all the time, if not their parents. I think (Dan and pacomartin would have the data to back me up, if they like) both Caribbean Stud and Let It Ride both had more installed tables 10-20 years ago than Three Card Poker does now. What does that say of the status of CSP and LIR then and now? And not all casinos have baccarat, or craps, or roulette. Some are even slots only, but never mind them. Perhaps some of them had one of the "mainstay" games at one time or another, but yanked them for the usual reasons. Are they any less of a casino because they did this?
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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January 23rd, 2012 at 4:21:59 AM permalink
The big three of the list are Blackjack, Craps and Roulette; they have been constants at least since 1960.
Don't feel that it is static - it is not, it is more "organic" but slow moving....
Baccarat has the fewest tables on the list, but in terms of revenue - total table drop - is huge, dollar-wise, and very common.
Pai Gow Poker and Three card poker really got on the list after 2000, they just kept on increasing market share and table installs and performing well.
-----------------
CSP and LIR were almost mainstays, too - essentially "Super" Carnival games that faded around 2000 as PGP and 3CP just kept increasing. CSP and LIR burnt out players a bit - either feast or famine. They would either chew through a player's buy in too quickly, or it would just dump $40,000 in a night on the casino operator. Between players getting burn-out and the casinos getting "spooked," CSP and LIR faded steadily. Also replacing out CSP and LIR were the advances in Crazy 4 poker, Four card poker, and Ultimate Texas Hold 'em, which seem to work very well with both steady players and casino confidence in them.
---
Deuces Wild was in 50% of Las Vegas Casinos in 2001, - then it just imploded. It was expensive to play - 4 units to play out a hand in a feast or famine fashion also. People just turned on that game, along with CSP and LIR for PGP, 3CP, and the newer 4-card poker games, BJ Switch, and UTH. However, Galaxy Gaming, which bought Deuces Wild, did a GREAT job in re-tooling that game, it was a resurrection of sorts: Players can now check on the PLAY bet (2nd bet), and bet 1 unit instead of 2 if they checked on the play bet, making the game much more forgiving, while still allowing a full 4-unit bet if you get dealt a monster from the start. See New Deuces Wild.

It would be interesting to see a chart of the above mentioned games' ascendancy stats in a line graph over time. One chart for $ Revenue, the other for total installs.
- Blackjack, craps, and Roulette holding fairly stead for 50 years at the top, with slight declines.
- CSP and LIR rising onto the chart 1990's, then getting displaced from their steady decline by the rising PGP and 3CP by 2005 as they steadily rose up.
- Deuces Wild making a quick arc, peaking around 2001 and gone. Halley's comet pays a visit. Blip.
- a combined shufflemaster line of Crazy 4 Poker, BJ Switch, 4 Card Poker, and UTH rising and holding, the steady background radiation of the carnival games.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.

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