When roulette is the best bet in the house!
October 15th, 2011 at 8:07:39 PM
permalink
Roulette normally a total sucker game can be the best bet in the house and even better than blackjack under these circumstances. You have a promotional chip from the casino that you lose on a win and on a loss. Plus they allow you to bet the chip anywhere. In these instances you want the to bet the chip on a long shot bet like the inside number on roulette because losing the bet actually gives you full value. You heard that right losing the bet actually gives you full value of the chip. Example player A and player B both have 18 of these promotional chips. Player A bets all the even numbers indivually player B bets the even bet on the board. One bet pays 35 to 1 while the other bet pays one to one when you have this promotional chip you want to bet on the 35 to 1 payout 37 to 1 odds of hitting. In this instance if the ball lands on an even number player A wins 35 chips where as player B wins 18 chips both have the same odds of winning but player A wins more when he wins because he had full value on the 17 bets he lost.
October 15th, 2011 at 8:17:44 PM
permalink
Quote: cardcounterbut player A wins more when he wins because he had full value on the 17 bets he lost.
Did you forget player A loses 17 of his chips and B keeps all of his?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 15th, 2011 at 9:19:52 PM
permalink
These are promotional chips if you win the bet you still lose the promotional chips you win real chips for the win but the promotional chips are lost. When betting real money it is different and they are exactly the same odds this is the exception.
October 15th, 2011 at 9:28:31 PM
permalink
HUH? I have no idea what you're talking about.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2011 at 1:28:34 AM
permalink
Never slowed you down before.Quote: EvenBobHUH? I have no idea what you're talking about.
Happiness is underrated
October 16th, 2011 at 5:07:32 AM
permalink
To extract the most EV out of this free chip, you need to bet it on high odds. You will not win often, but overall its a better bet.
Say you have a $25 free chip that plays for 1 spin only win or lose.
If you put it on red or black you will win on average $25 every 2 spins (zero excepted for ease of explanation) which means the free chip is worth $12.50 expected value.
If you put it on a single number you will win $875 every 37 spins which means the free chip is worth $23.64 expected value.
Its the same as when a sportsbook offers you a free bet where the stake is not returned, always place it on high odds to obtain the most EV.
edit..
In the OPs example he would be correct in that betting the 18 individual red numbers would be better than putting the 18 free chips on red.
(again excluding the zero coming in)
If the chips were worth $25 then with the 18 chips on red he would win $450 every 2 spins making the free chips worth $225 or $12.50 each.
However with the 18 chips on the individual numbers he would win $875 every 2 spins making the free chips worth $437.50 or $24.30.
Say you have a $25 free chip that plays for 1 spin only win or lose.
If you put it on red or black you will win on average $25 every 2 spins (zero excepted for ease of explanation) which means the free chip is worth $12.50 expected value.
If you put it on a single number you will win $875 every 37 spins which means the free chip is worth $23.64 expected value.
Its the same as when a sportsbook offers you a free bet where the stake is not returned, always place it on high odds to obtain the most EV.
edit..
In the OPs example he would be correct in that betting the 18 individual red numbers would be better than putting the 18 free chips on red.
(again excluding the zero coming in)
If the chips were worth $25 then with the 18 chips on red he would win $450 every 2 spins making the free chips worth $225 or $12.50 each.
However with the 18 chips on the individual numbers he would win $875 every 2 spins making the free chips worth $437.50 or $24.30.
October 16th, 2011 at 9:03:04 AM
permalink
Place the $25 free chip on one of the triple bets in Sic bo. You'll have a 1 in 216 chance of getting paid out 180:1, if I recall correctly. That would be $4500.
October 16th, 2011 at 9:48:04 AM
permalink
Roulette is the best bet when you can predict where the ball will land by time traveling to and from the future.
October 16th, 2011 at 11:44:43 AM
permalink
I still don't know what he means by betting the 18 red
numbers individually or putting all 18 on red, that the
individual numbers pay more. The payout is identical.
What difference does it make if you use promo chips
or ones you bought.
numbers individually or putting all 18 on red, that the
individual numbers pay more. The payout is identical.
What difference does it make if you use promo chips
or ones you bought.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2011 at 1:30:01 PM
permalink
Because you don't get the promotional chip back, you ONLY get the winnings.
18 chips on red, and it hits... you win 18 REAL chips.
18 chips on the layout and a single number hits, you get 35 REAL chips.
In both cases you lose the promo chips. There's the difference between promo chips and chips you buy.
18 chips on red, and it hits... you win 18 REAL chips.
18 chips on the layout and a single number hits, you get 35 REAL chips.
In both cases you lose the promo chips. There's the difference between promo chips and chips you buy.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
October 16th, 2011 at 1:56:17 PM
permalink
October 16th, 2011 at 5:48:50 PM
permalink
Quote: thecesspitBecause you don't get the promotional chip back, you ONLY get the winnings.
18 chips on red, and it hits... you win 18 REAL chips.
Oh, I get it. I've never even seen a promo chip,
who gives them out.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2011 at 7:41:50 PM
permalink
Just about everyone.Quote: EvenbobOh, I get it. I've never even seen a promo chip,
who gives them out.
October 16th, 2011 at 7:51:59 PM
permalink
Quote: KeyserJust about everyone.
Where? Never seen one. I see the match play coupons people get in the
mail for table play, I've never seen an actual promo chip. I don't get a
player card, never had one. They used to really bug me about it when
I played BJ, in roulette they don't seem to care.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2011 at 8:14:52 PM
permalink
Quote: EvenBobWhere? Never seen one. I see the match play coupons people get in the
mail for table play, I've never seen an actual promo chip.
I've seen promo chips in some places. Sahara used to give them away with their "learn to gamble" kits. $40 bought the kit, which came with $50 in promo chips. The coupons are much more common. And I don't think I've ever actually seen an example of either that could be played on the inside bets in roulette. But if they could, that'd be the bet to make...
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
October 16th, 2011 at 8:37:31 PM
permalink
Quote: rdw4potusI've seen promo chips in some places.
Must be a Vegas thing. I've never even seen a match
play coupon at an Indian casino, let alone a promo
chip.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2011 at 8:56:23 PM
permalink
Quote: EvenBobMust be a Vegas thing. I've never even seen a match
play coupon at an Indian casino, let alone a promo
chip.
I hadn't thought about it, but I don't think I've ever seen a matchplay coupon from an indian casino either - and I've been to quite a few of them. There are corporate casinos outside of vegas, though. I have received match plays from the detroit casinos, as well as from the KC area casinos and a couple in AC in addition to the dozens that I've received from Vegas casinos.
edit: thinking about it, I'm pretty sure I did get one matchplay coupon once from Foxwoods but that's hardly a typical indian casino.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
October 16th, 2011 at 9:16:11 PM
permalink
Match play coupons/ promotional chips are offered in both LV and AC by Harrah's, Caesars, MGM properties, Trump properties, Hilton, etc...
October 16th, 2011 at 9:25:26 PM
permalink
Quote: KeyserMatch play coupons/ promotional chips are offered in both LV and AC by Harrah's, Caesars, MGM properties, Trump properties, Hilton, etc...
I usually play Downtown, the Strip is for tourists.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2011 at 9:36:17 PM
permalink
I saw promo chips once at the Excalibur. I've heard about them offered at various places for good(*) customers
I'm guessing never having given in a player card, they won't be offering you any of these bonuses (which is probably fine, who wants their play tracked in your case?).
(*) Good/regular/mid-rollers
I'm guessing never having given in a player card, they won't be offering you any of these bonuses (which is probably fine, who wants their play tracked in your case?).
(*) Good/regular/mid-rollers
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
October 16th, 2011 at 9:49:48 PM
permalink
Yes, even the downtown casinos offer match play coupons/ promo chips.
Regarding downtown verses the strip. Downtown is lower limit gambling. The strip is generally higher limit gambling.
Regarding downtown verses the strip. Downtown is lower limit gambling. The strip is generally higher limit gambling.
October 16th, 2011 at 10:11:56 PM
permalink
Quote: KeyserRegarding downtown verses the strip. Downtown is lower limit gambling. The strip is generally higher limit gambling.
I've always enjoyed playing and
staying Downtown, it has character. The Strip has tourists.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2011 at 10:23:13 PM
permalink
I'm not sure as to why you think downtown isn't full of tourists. Downtown is full of tourists as well. Downtown tends to attract the budget crowd and more of the kids with the three foot drinks walking around drunk.
If you love that stuff then by all means stay downtown.
The Golden Nugget is the only nice casino that's left downtown.
If you love that stuff then by all means stay downtown.
The Golden Nugget is the only nice casino that's left downtown.
October 16th, 2011 at 10:33:29 PM
permalink
Quote: KeyserI'm not sure as to why you think downtown isn't full of tourists.
Downtown tourists are different. They usually visit Vegas
often and don't walk around with their mouths hanging
open in touristy amazement, like they do on the Strip. I
meet much nicer people Downtown than I do on the Strip.
And any casino I win in is a 'nice casino'.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2011 at 10:36:56 PM
permalink
Downtown definitely has a different crowd. Downtown is more of a mullet wearing crowd with lots of young couples pushing around kids in strollers. If you like hanging out with those three foot drinks then more power to you.
I must say though, that I do like some of the live bands there on some weekends.
I must say though, that I do like some of the live bands there on some weekends.
October 16th, 2011 at 10:46:48 PM
permalink
Quote: KeyserDowntown definitely has a different crowd. Downtown is more of a mullet wearing crowd with lots of young couples pushing around kids in strollers.
HUH? I rarely see any kids Downtown. I do see
tons of kids on the Strip, however. Its an older crowd
Downtown, the kids are all grown. There's nothing
for kids Downtown, its a grownup place for sure.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2011 at 10:50:53 PM
permalink
Evidently, you haven't been to LV in a long while.
Downtown has changed. The limits are very low, and the games are not what they once were.
Downtown has changed. The limits are very low, and the games are not what they once were.
October 16th, 2011 at 11:06:18 PM
permalink
Quote: KeyserEvidently, you haven't been to LV in a long while.
I was there in July, things have changed? I must admit, those
goddam zip lines overhead drive me nuts. And I just read that
they're expanding them. Oh boy.
Zip Line
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 17th, 2011 at 6:21:13 AM
permalink
Quote: EvenBobMust be a Vegas thing. I've never even seen a match
play coupon at an Indian casino, let alone a promo
chip.
I get a match play coupon once a week at Seneca Niagara.
October 17th, 2011 at 6:58:24 AM
permalink
At Bill's on the Strip I got a $5 match-play for craps for attending a craps lesson.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
October 17th, 2011 at 9:06:08 AM
permalink
Evenbob,
Where did you stay back in July?
Also, why don't you play with a player's card?
That's why you're not getting match play coupons/promo chips.
Where did you stay back in July?
Also, why don't you play with a player's card?
That's why you're not getting match play coupons/promo chips.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:47:15 AM
permalink
I stayed downtown at fitzgeralds in July there were tons of late teens/early 20s. Many of them looked like transients. The bands were good though but these kids who were like confused between punks and hippies would come out of the wood works and would TRY to dance. It was terrible. I did see lots of young couples pushing strollers.... and ya those zip lines are annoying.
I would say the crowd is still older and more genuine downtown than on the strip. I usually meet people from the midwest when downtown. I was playing blackjack with some people from texas and they kept calling me "california". They would also say hi when I would see them around. Just genuinely good people. People who say hi and talk to you on the elevator... not "sup".
I would say the crowd is still older and more genuine downtown than on the strip. I usually meet people from the midwest when downtown. I was playing blackjack with some people from texas and they kept calling me "california". They would also say hi when I would see them around. Just genuinely good people. People who say hi and talk to you on the elevator... not "sup".
October 17th, 2011 at 1:02:48 PM
permalink
Quote: KeyserEvenbob,Where did you stay back in July?
LOL!
Quote: KeyserAlso, why don't you play with a player's card?
Never had one, never will. My wife gets enough comps
for both of us. She gets match play coupons all the time from
Vegas hotels, never gotten any chips. They always ask me
for my card and I always say 'I won't be playing that long,
I'm waiting for my wife to get done at the slots'. They always
go away an never ask again. It was harder when I played BJ,
I almost got tossed out a few times because I refused to get
one. See, I remember the days when there were no cards.
Then all of a sudden, you had to have a card, it was a must,
the casino just had to have all your private info on record so
they could comp you. Uh Huh. No thanks.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 17th, 2011 at 2:05:45 PM
permalink
I see. So what you're really saying is that you're paranoid.
Are Black Hawk helicopters hovering over your house in a high orbit at night too?
Are Black Hawk helicopters hovering over your house in a high orbit at night too?
October 17th, 2011 at 2:15:27 PM
permalink
Quote: KeyserI see. So what you're really saying is that you're paranoid.
Not at all. Tell me why they have the right
to my personal info. They don't. Neither does
the local store that just made the rule that
unless you get their in-store 'value' card, you
have to pay full price for all the sale items.
Not me, I'll just shop somewhere else. They
want everything but your SS number on the
enrollment form, no thanks.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 17th, 2011 at 2:17:20 PM
permalink
I felt it was a fair enough question.
Why would you consider the question of limits? After all, you've shared so much with us here on the forum.
Why would you consider the question of limits? After all, you've shared so much with us here on the forum.
October 17th, 2011 at 2:24:40 PM
permalink
Quote: KeyserI felt it was a fair enough question.Why would you consider the question of limits?
I've answered the question here and elsewhere
a dozen times and you know it. You still haven't
explained why the casino has a right to my private
info.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 17th, 2011 at 2:27:06 PM
permalink
Evenbob,
I'm just saying, your level of consistency is a bit off here.
I'm just saying, your level of consistency is a bit off here.
October 17th, 2011 at 2:39:24 PM
permalink
Quote: EvenBobI've answered the question here and elsewhere
a dozen times and you know it. You still haven't
explained why the casino has a right to my private
info.
They don't. But in return for that info they may (or may not) give you freebies and spam you with offers in the post.
I'm surprised they ask for Social Security Number though... all they've ever got from me is name, address and BC driver's licence number. And I'm not sure they even have the licence number in their machine. I don't care that the corporations have this data in return for a free buffet or a free room... you may, which is fair enough.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
October 17th, 2011 at 2:41:14 PM
permalink
Quote: KeyserEvenbob,
I'm just saying, your level of consistency is a bit off here.
What BS. I've said for years on other forums that
I've never had a card. How am I being inconsistent.
You always ask the same questions about it, you're
a broken record. Then you pretend ignorance, like
its all new to you.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 17th, 2011 at 2:56:04 PM
permalink
Quote: KeyserI'm just saying, your level of consistency is a bit off here.
Fixed that for you.
October 17th, 2011 at 3:01:07 PM
permalink
Seriously, the guy tells us all about how he's being sued for not paying his bills in a thread that went on for a zillion pages, but when we ask him why he doesn't have a player's card, he says that's personal information that's off limits? Crazy stuff.
October 17th, 2011 at 3:23:46 PM
permalink
Quote: KeyserSeriously, the guy tells us all about how he's being sued for not paying his bills in a thread that went on for a zillion pages, but when we ask him why he doesn't have a player's card, he says that's personal information that's off limits? Crazy stuff.
Never said it was for not paying, you just assumed it was.
I never gave any details. It could be for any number of
reasons, think about it. As far as a players card, you ragged
me for years about it on another forum, then you come
here and act like its all new to you. Yawn... You STILL
haven't said why they the right to anybodies private info.
Its my choice not to give it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 17th, 2011 at 3:34:15 PM
permalink
I'm the same way. I always use my CCW for photo ID since it doesn't have a scan bar on the back, nor my address. Whether for protection from scams or protection from junk mail, it's just something I do. I'm not paranoid, just prefer to live in the shadows.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
October 17th, 2011 at 4:07:14 PM
permalink
evenbob,
you do realize youre giving up about 2% of the total amount youre wagering by not having a players card playing double-zero roulette. even if you dont have one, im sure they have figured out who you are because your wife has a card and im sure theyve seen the two of you together so you might as well get one.
however if you believe that is not the case and are still paranoid about getting a player's card, why not splurge on a fake id that is scannable? that way you protect your identity but still get the free offers. you say you like to hang out downtown so im sure you would be able to run into someone there that could do that for you.
you do realize youre giving up about 2% of the total amount youre wagering by not having a players card playing double-zero roulette. even if you dont have one, im sure they have figured out who you are because your wife has a card and im sure theyve seen the two of you together so you might as well get one.
however if you believe that is not the case and are still paranoid about getting a player's card, why not splurge on a fake id that is scannable? that way you protect your identity but still get the free offers. you say you like to hang out downtown so im sure you would be able to run into someone there that could do that for you.
October 17th, 2011 at 4:23:00 PM
permalink
Quote: SOOPOOI get a match play coupon once a week at Seneca Niagara.
What are the rules with that match play? Is it even money bets only? Or could you use it on the inside bets on roulette or the hardways bets in craps?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
October 17th, 2011 at 4:31:53 PM
permalink
Quote: rudeboyoievenbob,
you do realize youre giving up about 2% of the total amount youre wagering by not having a players card.
I never play long enough to be rated, so I'm not
giving up anything. And again, its not paranoia
to resist giving up your private info when there
is no reason for it. Its called good common sense.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 17th, 2011 at 5:28:58 PM
permalink
Quote: thecesspitI'm surprised they ask for Social Security Number though....
I can't recall EVER giving them my SS number.
All they ever get is my N&A, sometimes phone, and email. And I use a unique email address for everyone.
The ONLY time they ask for, and get, a SS # is when there's a payout over the tax threshold. When that happens, they sometimes also ask to see the SS card.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 17th, 2011 at 5:49:53 PM
permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBearWhen that happens, they sometimes also ask to see the SS card.
Which is pretty stupid, all the experts say you shouldn't carry
anything with your SS on it, because of identity theft. I read
a former pit supervisor say the IRS loves it when they have
your name and address and you gave the wrong SS number.
They put you thru the wringer for that, apparently.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 17th, 2011 at 5:56:46 PM
permalink
Quote: EvenBobWhich is pretty stupid, all the experts say you shouldn't carry
anything with your SS on it, because of identity theft. I read
a former pit supervisor say the IRS loves it when they have
your name and address and you gave the wrong SS number.
They put you thru the wringer for that, apparently.
The majority (See: >50%) of lost and found wallets at my place contain a SS card. WTH is up with this? My SS card is in a fireproof lockbox at home. Never leave home WITH it.
It's kind of weird, the whole ID theft thing. If any of you supply your info to the casino, I can go find it. Gimme your name or players card number, and in 2 minutes I'll give you your full name, full address, phone, SS # and any other info you've supplied. It makes me wonder how many other institutions have this "free-for-all-employees" access to my info.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
