Doc
Doc 
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 7043
October 2nd, 2011 at 9:14:15 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Geez, Bob. ... My guess is that you're trolling.

I think maybe he's still upset that he no longer has mkl and Jerry to fight with. For months I kept reading threads to see whether there was any topic that the three of them could agree on. Never saw a single one. I think he misses that interaction.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 425
  • Posts: 24457
October 2nd, 2011 at 9:23:37 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Geez, Bob. You sound like some kind of puritan. What's wrong with a little consensual "evil"?



Where did I say its evil? I'm simply stating a fact
of life. There's nothing I like better at the end of
the day in Vegas than to relax in my hotels casino and
play $5 BJ and drink for free. The waitresses seem
to come to BJ far more often then they do roulette.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
October 2nd, 2011 at 9:35:01 PM permalink
Quote: MarkAbe

Dan, I'm sorry to say that it sounds like you are starting to believe your own propaganda. I find it pretty much impossible to believe that alcohol is offered free to people who are gambling without the casino realizing that this can increase their profit. In fact, given the size and expertise of casinos, I find it pretty much impossible to believe that alcohol is offered free to people who gamble without the casino having at least a ball-park figure of how much it increases their profit.


This is the deal with that:
1. If drinks are free - then it's a conspiracy against the players.
2. If the casino charges for drinks - then the casinos are cheap, money grubbing bastards - and it's a conspiracy against the players.
3. If there is no beverage servcice or if the cocktail is no where to be seen - people are complaining - "where the hell IS she? WHAT KIND OF CASINO DOESN'T SUPPLY BEVERAGE SERVICE! They are so cheap it is a conspiracy against the players! We provide enough to the casino that they can AT LEAST offer us beverage service."

You know, MarkAbe, if the cocktail waitress actually said, "I'm sorry sir, you cannot order water, coffee or soda - you MUST have an alcolic beverage, and we will watch YOU drink it down!"
- Then I'd say you have a point.

Give people absolutely free will and free choice to:
1. drink,
2. not drink, or
3. drink soda
- via a beverage service as a courtesy service, and it's mind control.
- charge them or offer no service, and it's a money grubbing conspiracy.
ANYTHING a business provides as a customer service, and it's a conspiracy - if it is a casino doing it!
Unreal.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
October 2nd, 2011 at 9:35:15 PM permalink
Quote: MarkAbe

In fact, given the size and expertise of casinos, I find it pretty much impossible to believe that alcohol is offered free to people who gamble without the casino having at least a ball-park figure of how much it increases their profit.



Possibly. But why speculate? How do profit margins compare among casinos that offer free drinks vs those that don't?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 425
  • Posts: 24457
October 2nd, 2011 at 9:57:28 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

1. If drinks are free - then it's a conspiracy against the players.



Yes and no. Free booze is part of the comp system.

"The lowest level of comp available at most casinos is free alcohol and other beverages. The second level of comp that many players earn is free meals. The next level of comps is usually free hotel rooms."

Free drinks are the first step in the loss leaders the
casino offers to keep you there and keep you
coming back so they can continue to pick your
pocket. Its all figured into the bottom line, just
like a dept store structures their prices to account
for shoplifters.

From Confessions of a Pit Boss:

"If you're serious about gambling, don't drink while you do it. Alcohol is a casino's best friend: It makes you do things no sane, rational person would ever think of doing, like betting your entire paycheck on red 23--again! In gambling jargon, a fish is an easy mark, and there's a reason casinos try to make you drink like one. The casino owners are going to do whatever they can to keep you there."
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Ericayne
Ericayne
Joined: Mar 9, 2010
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 88
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:07:03 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan


5. It is generally not cheap entertainment, like renting a movie at RedBox....



Recently, I rented a movie from this humanless kiosk.....i'm hooked big time......
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
October 3rd, 2011 at 2:48:32 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Possibly. But why speculate? How do profit margins compare among casinos that offer free drinks vs those that don't?

Hardly a valid comparison. Tribal casinos are such lousy places the comparison on the basis of alcohol would be unfair. And "free drinks" is a meaningless term because even Terribles will fall into that category. I don't know if the waitress there was actually ashamed to be serving that watered-down swill but I felt embarassed for her when she had to serve that stuff. Yet it would fall under the category of free drinks.

Now Wynn turned cheapskate for awhile but I don't know what the current situation there is.

I don't think there has ever been a dispute that free lunch in a bar were generally salty items so people would buy more beer, I don't think anyone really disputes the free booze in a casino is to loosen player's wallets. And lets face it, they could dress those gals in Burkas if they really wanted to but there must be some sort of advantage to distracting and otherwise stimulating the players. Young, half-naked girls, alcohol ... and then sober well-reasoned financial decisions?
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
October 3rd, 2011 at 3:32:56 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I've never read where they actually talk to dealers and floor people so bluntly, maybe this guy is unique.



I was looking at Southwest's annual report. They said they made $459 million in income in 2010. They also said they have $490 million in revenue from junk fees. They were particularly proud of three fees which brought in $119 million ($10 to board early, $75 to bring a small dog or cat into the cabin, and $50 for unaccompanied minor surcharge which was up from $25). They did not detail the other fees.

So if they wanted to be honest they would tell their customers that the nickel and dime fees amount to more money than the airline's income. They also average $5.10 for each one way segment.

To tie in with another thread management was concerned about the FAA increasing the maximum denied boarding compensation airlines must pay to passengers bumped from flights from $800 to $1,300.
Mosca
Mosca
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
  • Threads: 178
  • Posts: 3805
October 3rd, 2011 at 6:16:53 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Where did I say its evil? I'm simply stating a fact
of life. There's nothing I like better at the end of
the day in Vegas than to relax in my hotels casino and
play $5 BJ and drink for free. The waitresses seem
to come to BJ far more often then they do roulette.



You didn't, I did. I put it in quotes not because you said it, but because it's not really evil. Sorry if my construction was unclear.

Everything else you've written about casino gambling makes it sound like you're against it. It looks like pure capitalism to me, and risky capitalism at that; the current state of the industry is not all roses and gold, after all. For the rest of my take, I've already written it, no point in writing it again.
NO KILL I
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
October 3rd, 2011 at 9:15:24 AM permalink
On the alcohol point only, I gotta go with Bob, Dan.

The alcohol is provided to playing folks for free in order to butter players up, not as a courtesy and convenience. The whole of the casino atmosphere is to loosen up inhibitions and make people play for longer. The longer they play, the more likely the house edge and negative variance is going to get them. The casino plays a vitually infinite bankroll against your piddly one, be it $20 or $20,000. In any case, math is on their side. For the casino to make a consistent profit and increase their table hold, math and time need to be on their side. To do that, casinos remove the clock, provide no windows, provide free drinks, have free entertainment, and give them comps available only at that casino, including discounted room rates, free food, and points. When dealers pay winnings, they attempt to pay you in bigger color so you bet bigger.

Let's face it. Some (not all) players play FOR the free drinks. There is a reason why table games get much much better drink service than slot games. Once you order a drink at a slot, you wait, and wait some more, sometimes 20 minutes for your drink to arrive, because the casino wants you playing at that slot machine. And that slot machine has fancy noises, bonus rounds, and whistles to keep you at that machine. At the tables, you're better larger sums of money, and therefore the drinks come quicker, because you make decisions on what to play. A clouded decision inevitably results in house edge. In 3CP, your drunkenness causes you to fold a K-8-2 hand when the strategy is to play it. In Blackjack, you decide to double down on that 8 because you feel that Ace coming. In Craps, you throw some money in the center. In PaiGow, you set your hand wrong, playing the three aces in your hand instead of splitting the third ace. ALL of this CAUSED by the tempatation of free alcohol. And how do I know this? My wife is severely hung over right now after blowing hundreds of dollars last night (with me) playing all of these games and making many of the wrong moves as above. She wouldn't be hung over if she was paying $8 a drink with "cocktail" service coming every five minutes. And why are the cocktail servers usually pretty women who are scantily clad? And yes, it's her personal responsibility. Did the casino stop her from these bad plays? No. Mission accomplished.

And yes, the player's clubs and level are meaningful to some. The 'gold' level at our local casino gomes with $65 meal credit and free valet parking. The gold level at the casino we're at now features express hotel checkin, express meal seating, parking on an exclusive level, discounted hotel rates, late checkout, early checkin, and so on and so forth. It's a meaningful benefit to get to that level of play. To get to gold level required I estimated about $40K of action. I don't care about any of those benefits. Others do.

Is it "evil"? No. The casino, however, is there to provide entertainment to most, but I think its methodology of keeping you playing is over the top. It's because they know that house edge x time = loss, and that the odds of you losing increase with the amount of time that you spend there. Casino personell like or dislike you based on your personality. Casino personnel also give you feigned respect based on your level of play. The differences between the two are obviously apparent if you have a brain.

I will pertain that it is the goal of the casino executive to create a problem gambler, as it is the problem gambler (5% of the general population) that generates a substantial part (40%) of its revenue. If the casino can setup the environment to keep you addicted and have that dopamine released at the right time and the right doses to your stupid brain, then it has an addict - their addict. They know how ineffective the problem gambling help lines are. The casino needs these problem gamblers to grow and expand their businesses.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!

  • Jump to: