Please help! Dealer looks at cards and makes comment to ruin hand! What do you think?!

Hi!

I have a situation at hand that happened at last nights poker game at my house.

Here is the situation.

Dealer has dealt to the 2 remaining players in the game. I am one of the players and the other player we will call Nick.

It is my bid off of the flop. Flop turns over and we see a 10h-6d-4d.

I get a Ks - 3c.

I bet 800 chips. Roughly 25% of the chips that we started out with 4 hours prior. Obviously I have nothing, im bluffing. As I make the bet for 800 chips the dealer comes around the table and looks at my cards. As my stack/bid/bet hits the table he makes a statement, "Thats Crazy!".

Here's the question. ******* Do I have a right to ask for a re-deal? ********

His comment should never been made. Commenting the hand or revealing information is annoying, it will affect the decisions of the other players, and it may even give an unfair advantage to some. This is OBVIOUS. The player named Nick argued that there should have been no "re-deal".

Answer me this;

If you are at a table in Vegas or any other Legitimate Poker table, would the dealer look at your cards and make a comment? I DONT THINK SO! I would assume this would go for any "Passerby" that makes a comment on your hand as they are walking by.

This is out of the players/our control, there must be a re-deal.

Can someone please tell me what should have been done in this case?

Thanks SO MUCH!

Kirk

Sorry, no redeal.

But if this was in a casino the dealer should be suspended for a week and told if it happens again they will be both fired and 86ed from the casino.

If it was a "back door" game the dealer should be taken outside and, well you decide.

You don't get a re-deal. Otherwise you could force a re-deal in any poker game simply by having a railbird comment whenever you had a terrible hand -- and then you'd have the edge.

But the declaration was very improper and is grounds for banishment (according to Robert's Rules of Poker). "Making statements or taking action that could unfairly influence the course of play, whether or not the offender is involved in the pot."

Don't invite that player to your games anymore.

Don't allow dealer or players to wander around the room looking at cards.

Protect your hand. That's YOUR responsibility! I figure you probably bluffed 800 and showed your hand to dealer hoping for a 'atta-boy' and are now surprised he betrayed your trust. Why did you look at your hand again after the flop? ...especially with someone behind you? Either you made your flush or not.

Don't serve alcohol anymore.

Teach players basic poker etiquette, or make sure they know it before coming over.

Have a rulebook on hand.

What was the outcome of the hand anyway? Turn and river? Did Nick fold to your river all-in bet?

So you mean to tell me that he could look at my cards every hand and make a comment on them. Every hand?

Thanks,
KR

While terrible etiquette, I don't see grounds for a misdeal either. Years ago there was a similar situation in a home poker game at my house. The guilty party admitted guilt after being yelled at for 20 minutes, and paid some financial redress to the victim.

I was holding the hand up from the time of deal, I never put it down. When I dropped the chips he made the comment, "Thats Crazy!".

Regardless of where the cards were at the time of the flop, he knew what I has and made the comment directly after my bet.

I guess he's fired and Nick should just get some sportsmanship..?

KR

If the game was at my house, I would have declared it a misdeal. No reason why one of the two players should have to suffer due to a dealer's idiotic lapse. Personally, I think the dealer should have been punched in the face for that!

Quote: kirkrussell

Here's the question. ******* Do I have a right to ask for a re-deal? ********

Yes, you do, beyond any doubt.

The dealer in a casino poker game is a neutral party and should do nothing, and I mean nothing, to affect the outcome of the game.

Quote:

Can someone please tell me what should have been done in this case?

Other than asking for a re-deal, you should have asked to have the dealer replaced.

These are the types of situations that happen at home games that make me be very particular when I decide to play or not play at a home game. Some hosts are sticklers for rules. I'll come to those games.

The type of violation you describe is listed as a violation in the Proper Behavior / Poker Etiquette section of Robert's Rules of Poker. (Robert's Rules is available as a free app for smart phones.)


But a re-deal? No. Punch in the nose perhaps, but no re-deal.

Perhaps a momentary lapse in his grasp of the seriousness of the situation.
Social games in a person's home can be more serious than a game in a casino's poker room.

I imagine the invitation list for the next game was adjusted or perhaps a few "deal me outs" as soon as the offender sits down at the table would have taken place to show that all is not forgiven.

Hi,
Just wondering is there a rule that states a player must conceal/hide his cards during a game? If I lay them down and someone comes by and grabs them off the table does this mean I responsible for not putting them in my draws to hide them? What if there are cameras in the room? Did I not conceal them well enough in this case?

Please respond, thanks!

KR

Quote: kirkrussell

Just wondering is there a rule that states a player must conceal/hide his cards during a game?

KR

Yeah. It's the rule of common sense.

Quote: kirkrussell

If I lay them down and someone comes by and grabs them off the table does this mean I responsible for not putting them in my draws to hide them?

It means you're responsible for punishing him for such disrespectful behavior towards you. May I suggest a beating? Or stabbing his hand with your daiquiri umbrella toothpick?

If you held your cards above the table for anyone to see the whole time instead of facedown with a coin on top, then you're guilty of not protecting your hand. You deserved to lose that hand. You'll learn.

So the dealer is an outside variable that should have no bearing on the game at all, right?

Imagine this, a gust of wind from a vent above blows your cards over (along with the coin on top) and everyone sees your hand.

Then what?

KR

Quote: kirkrussell

Imagine this, a gust of wind from a vent above blows your cards over (along with the coin on top) and everyone sees your hand.

Then what?

KR

Are you playing while Irene is flying over?

What if a crocodile jumps up and snaps off the table leg and all cards end up on the floor? What if Uri Geller floats the cards off the table? What if we're all so gooned on acid we can't read the board right? What if the Kit Kat bars we're using as chips get carried off by a line of ants? What if....what if....what if.

No re-deal. Protect your cards. Take the dealer outside and educate him.

I echo the general sentiments ::

a) the dealer who saw your cards (or any other bystander) broke etiquette by commenting.

b) it's -your hand- to protect, and therefore YOU have to make a reasonable attempt to keep it hidden if you don't want kibbutzers. Adding in things you can't control into your game is a mistake.

c) it matters that this person was a dealer ONLY in that you assume they'd know better and that you have a line of recourse. It could have been anyone if your hand is visible. Maybe the opponents buddy was sitting behind you as well making a signal. One player to hand... works both ways.

d) No redeal. This was a circumstance well under your control.

Quote: kirkrussell

So the dealer is an outside variable that should have no bearing on the game at all, right?

Imagine this, a gust of wind from a vent above blows your cards over (along with the coin on top) and everyone sees your hand.

Then what?

KR

Doesn't matter. Think about it from a game protection standpoint: if you knew there was a vent above that could blow over your cards with a gust of wind, all you'd need to do to cheat is to signal your friend in maintenance to turn on the vent whenever you had a bad hand. Then you'd only ever play with good hands and you'd clean up.

Quote: kirkrussell

I was holding the hand up from the time of deal, I never put it down.

And now you know better and have paid the price of education.

Hopefully the lesson learned here is to never show anyone your cards and protect them....it's your responsibility!