7up
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May 20th, 2011 at 8:41:26 PM permalink
Quote: DorothyGale





A man is presented with two envelopes full of money. One of the envelopes
contains twice the amount as the other envelope. One the man has chosen
his envelope, opened and counted it, he is given the option of changing
it for the other envelope. The question is, is there any gain to the man
in changing the envelope?

It would appear that by switching the man would have a 50% chance of doubling
his money should the initial envelope be the lesser amount and a 50% chance
of halving it if the initial envelope is the higher amount. Thus, let x be
the amount contained in the initial envelope and y be the value of changing it:

y = 0.5*(x/2) + 0.5*(2x)

Let’s say that the initial envelope contained $100 (so that x = $100). There should
be a 50% chance that the other envelope contains either 2 * $100 = $200 (2x)
or a 50% chance that the other envelope contains (1/2) * $100 = $50 (x/2).
In such a case, the value of the envelope is:

$125 = 0.5*($100/2) + 0.5*(2*$100)

This inequality can be shown by simplifying this equation:

y = (0.5)*(x/2) + (0.5)*(2x) = (5/4)x

This implies that the man would, on average, increase his wealth by 25% simply
by switching envelopes! How can this be?



It is not 50/50
If there is a limited amount in the envelop, there are chances only pair of (0.5X, X) exists, and pair of (X, 2X) never exist.

with limited amount(L) in the envelop,
no matter where the X lays between 1 and L, 0.5X is always be there....100% chance of having (0.5X, X)
if X is greater than 0.5L, there is no 2X...50% chance of having (X,2X)
so for an unknown X, EV of switching = 100%/150%*-0.5X + 50%/150%*+X = 0

without limited amount(L) in the envelop,
for any X(X still less than half infinity anyway), EV of switching = 50%*-0.5X + 50%*+X = +0.25X

X=$100,
for a limit of $200 or higher, the pair of ($100, $200) is possible, switching EV=+$25
with limited amount less than $200, the pair of ($100, $200) is impossible, switching EV=-$50
Wizard
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May 20th, 2011 at 8:43:02 PM permalink
This has been discussed at length before.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
7up
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May 20th, 2011 at 9:17:37 PM permalink
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The two envelopes problem is a puzzle or paradox in philosophy, especially within decision theory and the Bayesian interpretation of probability theory. A large number of different solutions have been proposed. The usual scenario is that one writer proposes a solution that solves the problem as stated, but then some other writer discovers that by altering the problem a little the paradox is brought back to life again. In this way a family of closely related formulations of the problem is created which are then discussed in the literature. For some variants of the paradox there exists a broad consensus on how to solve the problem, while for other variants of the paradox disagreements exists. Currently at least a couple of new papers are published every year.
7up
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May 20th, 2011 at 9:24:03 PM permalink
The main paradox is...Why there is EV=0 before opening the first envelop, but EV=+0.25 after opening the envelop.
Now there is an explaination...Just because is not 50/50 before seeing how much in the first envelop.
Wizard
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May 20th, 2011 at 10:57:14 PM permalink
We already have 19 pages about this problem.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
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May 20th, 2011 at 11:32:40 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

We already have 19 pages about this problem.


Yes, but most are base on 50/50. Not the same as mine.

BTW, I posted on that thread, but could not find it in updated "General Discussion" unless I go back to "Last Post" on Dec 2010.
MathExtremist
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May 21st, 2011 at 8:14:19 AM permalink
Quote: 7up

Quote: Wizard

We already have 19 pages about this problem.


Yes, but most are base on 50/50. Not the same as mine.


No, most are based on the fact that once you open up the envelope, the chances of the other amount being higher or lower are *not* 50/50 because they can't be. That's the answer to the paradox. See this and this.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
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May 21st, 2011 at 11:06:57 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist


No, most are based on the fact that once you open up the envelope, the chances of the other amount being higher or lower are *not* 50/50 because they can't be. That's the answer to the paradox. See this and this.



Sorry, I missed it.
Thank you for pointing it out.

Quote: MathExtremist

Here's looking at it in reverse. We know (intuitively and logically) that the EV of switching or keeping has to be the same. That means if I pick an envelope with value V, I can keep it and have V or switch and have EV(switch) = V = A*2V + B*V/2, where A+B = 1. That leads to A = 1/3, B = 2/3. In short, the chances of switching to a higher envelope is only 1/3. The question, dear reader, is why?


[the chances of switching to a higher envelope is only 1/3]....I am not sure I can fully understand your words. May I ask, "the chances of switching to a higher envelope " is 1/3, or it is not 1/3 ?
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