Casinos and Ethics
Personally I don't think anyone I've met in the casino industry is evil, but I do understand where she is coming from I guess. While my aunt told me she disapproved of my job, she was drinking beer, which I said probably causes more societal problems than gambling, but 99% of the population can handle beer without getting addicted so it should be legal and regulated (she disagreed saying gambling is much worse).
Do you think there is anything I can do to convince my aunt that working in this industry is not evil? Or will certain people always disapprove of gambling for various reasons and there is nothing we can do about it? Have any of you faced conflict with people in your life regarding working for the casino industry?
Thanks for reading and have a good night - regards from New York City :)
Casinos at least require you to take the step of getting out of your house to got into them. The move to bring online versions in so many states means susceptible people can destroy themselves without leaving the house. She should be more concerned about that
Where else could this elderly man, who provided part of the soundtrack of the lives of so many older people, continue to play? Casinos have become repositories for the arts, music and entertainment. Donny Osmond plays here. Penn & Teller. David Copperfield (OK, there's a rumor he might be evil!). And many names you don't know; all the magicians, comedians, buskers, dancers. Not evil.
I don't see evil in a casino. Where else can you leave thousands of dollars on a table, go and drain your lizard, and when you come back it's all still there? Would you do that in a church or shul? Would you do that on a university campus? How about in a government office building?
If you want to be really scary to your family- maybe you should try being an AP! You will meet very unusual people and have totally improbable experiences. You probably won't lose money, but there is no guarantee. And you get free tickets to shows. But there is a lot of conflict with those around you. Nobody who isn't also an AP ever really believes you're not just a gambler "with a system."
There's a lot of guilt to go around in a casino and high minimums too. A lot of people older than a certain age really have an aversion to gambling on religious grounds yet Church Bingo is OK. Take a walk in Atlantic City and people could say the casinos bled the area dry, but I don't know what the deal is down there; just don't walk around where the casinos aren't. Black Jack dealers themselves could tell you more about what's happening in the casinos if they aren't under a gag order or a memory lapse. I don't know how they can play day after day, hour after hour; it takes more stamina than I'll ever contemplate.
They're all different flavors of the same thing.
Vices will exist regardless of their legal status. All you can tell her is that your job is in the legal / regulated portion of the gaming industry.
Frankly, if I were her, I'd be more concerned that you're also a patron of that very industry she objects to employing you.
Personally, I'd shrug it off for now. Eventually, attempt to show her through your accomplishments that you're one of the good guys, working for one of the good companies.
I think you missed a memo from another thread. Harris’ new employer is DraftKings.Quote: odiousgambit… Casinos at least require you to take the step of getting out of your house to got into them. The move to bring online versions in so many states means susceptible people can destroy themselves without leaving the house. She should be more concerned about that
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Quote: harrisRecently I have started working in the casino industry doing math (mostly thanks to this forum). My mother is very happy because she studied math in university and uses it to work in advertising, though she is afraid that I am going to get into gambling and lose money. In contrast, my mother's sister (my aunt) thinks that it's really bad that I am working for the casino industry - she says I am ruining families and working for evil thieves.
Personally I don't think anyone I've met in the casino industry is evil, but I do understand where she is coming from I guess. While my aunt told me she disapproved of my job, she was drinking beer, which I said probably causes more societal problems than gambling, but 99% of the population can handle beer without getting addicted so it should be legal and regulated (she disagreed saying gambling is much worse).
Do you think there is anything I can do to convince my aunt that working in this industry is not evil? Or will certain people always disapprove of gambling for various reasons and there is nothing we can do about it? Have any of you faced conflict with people in your life regarding working for the casino industry?
Thanks for reading and have a good night - regards from New York City :)
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Assuming your aunt's approval is not required, there is no need for you to try to convince her of anything. Tell her thanks for your opinion and then move on with life.
Quote: harrisDo you think there is anything I can do to convince my aunt that working in this industry is not evil? Or will certain people always disapprove of gambling for various reasons and there is nothing we can do about it? Have any of you faced conflict with people in your life regarding working for the casino industry?
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I think there is nothing you can do. I suggest you agree to disagree and move on.
Personally, I never lost a minute of sleep being in the gaming business. Like many things, yes, gambling can be abused. When Las Vegas churches stop accepting donations from their members in the gaming business I'll take a second look at my opinion.
Quote: SandybestdogI don’t think Las Vegas is reflective of the rest of the country. I think almost everyone will be ok with a few gaming destinations like Vegas or AC where people go on vacation once or twice a year, blow some money and go back to their lives. Instead now states are increasingly money hungry for tax revenue and have now made gaming a local thing. Now it’s commonplace to hear stories of someone never gambling but then becoming addicted when a casino opens in their area. The expansion of gaming is a net negative for society.
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Maybe those local casinos do good too. Being social is more difficult for the elderly and there are many people in that category who are only social because of the climate controlled, handicapped accessible, secure and always open casino that they frequent. I see the old men having their coffee in the keno lounge, the old ladies at the slots and in the bingo hall, and I know those people are being comped, getting bargains, and likely getting more relative to their own needs from this building than they are leaving behind.
Being social increases lifespan! That's pretty well proven. Take all the old people who socialize at casinos, add up all the elder-years added to human life. Then subtract all the bridge jumper-years of life subtracted from those who drove themselves to despair and harmed themselves with gaming, and consider the fact that there is non-casino, unlawful gambling available and a person with a gambling problem will surely find them. I estimate that casinos are +EV for humanity, all accounted for.
I actually have family friends in NY state that own a Liquor store and have for decades. Nobody accuses them of being "evil" and while I'm sure they've likely sold products to people who ended up in a bad situation or two, it was the PERSON that abused the alcohol and caused the problem, not the PRODUCT!
I'm also seeing a Woman who works as a Cultivator at a Marijuana Dispensary and she LOVES her job, it's what she wanted to do since she was a little girl and she comes home every night happy as can be. She's doing what she loves and getting paid well for it.
Some purists will say, "She's just a glorified Drug Dealer" but that couldn't be farther from the truth! She is hired for her botany expertise and helps cultivate plants that produce flowers that help people with anxiety, glaucoma and other ailments and it is all 100% Legal!
Back on topic, No you are not in an Evil industry as everyone who enters and leaves does so of their own volition and while the casino may have "tactics" to keep them playing, it's up to the person to recognize whether or not they have a problem and handle it accordingly!
Quote: harrisHave any of you faced conflict with people in your life regarding working for the casino industry?
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My grandmother was fiercely opposed to gambling.
I am reasonably sure this was because the gambling near her was run by the mob, and she didn't like the car bombings.
I'm pretty sure she was also opposed to the loan sharking, prostitution, drug trade, and gay bars, so it wasn't just gambling.
When a tribal casino displaced the mob run gambling clubs, she tolerated it, but she still wouldn't set foot inside.
(I don't exactly work for the casino industry, and I wasn't gambling adjacent during her life... so I skipped the conflict.)
Quote: 7NeverWins
...I'm also seeing a Woman who works as a Cultivator at a Marijuana Dispensary and she LOVES her job, it's what she wanted to do since she was a little girl and she comes home every night happy as can be. She's doing what she loves and getting paid well for it.
Some purists will say, "She's just a glorified Drug Dealer" but that couldn't be farther from the truth! She is hired for her botany expertise and helps cultivate plants that produce flowers that help people with anxiety, glaucoma and other ailments and it is all 100% Legal!...
I don't think being a drug dealer is that bad either. What's so bad about it?
Suppose I wanted to do a line tonight. The person who sells it stores the product so I don't have to. He takes way more legal risk processing, transporting and selling than I do just buying a little bag and entertaining my proboscis with it. Not much chance of me ever getting shot by one of his competitors, customers or suppliers, but he may well someday.
And he does all this just so I can enjoy myself in a manner I have chosen! (Side note: I don't do lines. mumble any more mumble ) He's doing the work and taking the risk, I'm having the fun and compensating him. I call that a benevolent man, not evil. I don't think a hooker is evil either. Why would she be, because she lays there and takes a pounding so some guy who might not have a lot of options can feel better about himself? No, I bless all these denizens of the jungle, that the people willingly seek out to taste what the world has to offer.
Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: 7NeverWins
...I'm also seeing a Woman who works as a Cultivator at a Marijuana Dispensary and she LOVES her job, it's what she wanted to do since she was a little girl and she comes home every night happy as can be. She's doing what she loves and getting paid well for it.
Some purists will say, "She's just a glorified Drug Dealer" but that couldn't be farther from the truth! She is hired for her botany expertise and helps cultivate plants that produce flowers that help people with anxiety, glaucoma and other ailments and it is all 100% Legal!...
I don't think being a drug dealer is that bad either. What's so bad about it?
Suppose I wanted to do a line tonight. The person who sells it stores the product so I don't have to. He takes way more legal risk processing, transporting and selling than I do just buying a little bag and entertaining my proboscis with it. Not much chance of me ever getting shot by one of his competitors, customers or suppliers, but he may well someday.
And he does all this just so I can enjoy myself in a manner I have chosen! (Side note: I don't do lines. mumble any more mumble ) He's doing the work and taking the risk, I'm having the fun and compensating him. I call that a benevolent man, not evil. I don't think a hooker is evil either. Why would she be, because she lays there and takes a pounding so some guy who might not have a lot of options can feel better about himself? No, I bless all these denizens of the jungle, that the people willingly seek out to taste what the world has to offer.
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As an adult, I would agree to some extent to what you’re saying. Now repeat the above about doing a line, except you’re 16, or 14, or 12 years old… Is the dealer still doing you any favors?
Quote: camaplQuote: AutomaticMonkey...
Suppose I wanted to do a line tonight. The person who sells it stores the product so I don't have to. He takes way more legal risk processing, transporting and selling than I do just buying a little bag and entertaining my proboscis with it. Not much chance of me ever getting shot by one of his competitors, customers or suppliers, but he may well someday.
And he does all this just so I can enjoy myself in a manner I have chosen! (Side note: I don't do lines. mumble any more mumble ) He's doing the work and taking the risk, I'm having the fun and compensating him. I call that a benevolent man, not evil. I don't think a hooker is evil either. Why would she be, because she lays there and takes a pounding so some guy who might not have a lot of options can feel better about himself? No, I bless all these denizens of the jungle, that the people willingly seek out to taste what the world has to offer.
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As an adult, I would agree to some extent to what you’re saying. Now repeat the above about doing a line, except you’re 16, or 14, or 12 years old… Is the dealer still doing you any favors?
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Oh, certainly not! Someone that young should not be engaging in what have always been known as adult pursuits. They should be playing it straight and developing discipline.
But in reality nobody wants that business. "Pushers hanging around schoolyards" is mostly a myth from the 1980s and any legit dealer knows he is going to make a lot more enemies than money doing that. Same for a prostitute and if she serves a minor either she didn't know or it was an act of personal depravity separate from her business. And same for a casino- no lawful casino is going to deal cards to a minor and an illegal game isn't going to let him in either. So if a kid really wants to bet he's going to have to get a poker game going with his friends and how bad is that really, if it's all kids?
Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: camaplQuote: AutomaticMonkey...
Suppose I wanted to do a line tonight. The person who sells it stores the product so I don't have to. He takes way more legal risk processing, transporting and selling than I do just buying a little bag and entertaining my proboscis with it. Not much chance of me ever getting shot by one of his competitors, customers or suppliers, but he may well someday.
And he does all this just so I can enjoy myself in a manner I have chosen! (Side note: I don't do lines. mumble any more mumble ) He's doing the work and taking the risk, I'm having the fun and compensating him. I call that a benevolent man, not evil. I don't think a hooker is evil either. Why would she be, because she lays there and takes a pounding so some guy who might not have a lot of options can feel better about himself? No, I bless all these denizens of the jungle, that the people willingly seek out to taste what the world has to offer.
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As an adult, I would agree to some extent to what you’re saying. Now repeat the above about doing a line, except you’re 16, or 14, or 12 years old… Is the dealer still doing you any favors?
link to original post
Oh, certainly not! Someone that young should not be engaging in what have always been known as adult pursuits. They should be playing it straight and developing discipline.
But in reality nobody wants that business. "Pushers hanging around schoolyards" is mostly a myth from the 1980s and any legit dealer knows he is going to make a lot more enemies than money doing that. Same for a prostitute and if she serves a minor either she didn't know or it was an act of personal depravity separate from her business. And same for a casino- no lawful casino is going to deal cards to a minor and an illegal game isn't going to let him in either. So if a kid really wants to bet he's going to have to get a poker game going with his friends and how bad is that really, if it's all kids?
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Speaking of Drug dealers not wanting to sell to kids, I wrote a fictional story where my Protagonist, Dave is 15 and regularly buys Cocaine from Mr. X, and Dave is getting beat up constantly by his Bully, Rob, a 16 year old.
Dave offers Mr. X a lot of money to beat up Rob and drive him far away and then leave him stranded. Mr. X refuses to beat up Rob and drive him far away and leave him stranded because he doesn't want to be in trouble for assaulting and kidnapping a Minor. People who read my story actually agreed with Mr. X for not wanting to beat up and kidnap a Minor as it's bad enough that he is selling Cocaine to a 15 year old but beating up and kidnapping a 16 year old would completely cross the line. 💡
I think I started my gambling around the age of 6 or 7. I really can’t remember a time in my life where I wasn’t gambling at cards, pool, or sports.
Churches - Child sexual abuse scandals
Defense Contractors - Napalm & cluster bombs
Banks - Easy access to credit cards with 20% interest rates to trap people in debt
Insurance Companies - Looking for any reason to deny a claim after years of accepting premiums
Not to mention tobacco companies, gun manufacturers, debt collectors, lawyers, Monsato, oil companies, Walmart, McDonalds, Amazon, soda companies, prison guards who abuse prisoners, cops who beat innocent people etc, etc, etc,
Not to say that any of the above are actually evil, just that anyone can be negative on at least some aspects of any industry or profession.
I’d say on the whole casinos are probably one of the least “evil” industries when you compare them to all the others. Designed as places for primarily entertainment & fun.
I do not think that anyone should judge the typical blackjack dealer, but I might slightly judge the team who designs the "Genghis Khan Auspicious Mid-Autumn Festival" slot machine which includes the "Lucky Pangolin Fortune bonus" that has been specifically crafted by psychologists to appeal to East Asian grandmothers between the ages of 75-85 in order to drain their children's inheritance with a barely-legal RTP. I don't even think that casinos are a net-negative on society, but I feel like there are definitely exploitative practices that should be called out.
However I have come to the awesome conclusion think that some vices that I like such gambling and marijuana are inevitable and fulfill some sort of mythical, spiritual role in society whereas vices that I don't like such as prostitution and heroin add nothing to society and are unnecessary :)
Quote: DRichI am not against kids gambling. Let’s just educate them.
I think I started my gambling around the age of 6 or 7. I really can’t remember a time in my life where I wasn’t gambling at cards, pool, or sports.
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Good idea. It's things that we bet on, so we learn things. It's obvious that the people around here have a lot of knowledge about diverse things; math, sports, investing of all kinds. Betting could be a good educational tool in schools, where everything is expressed in terms of probabilities and risk.
Quote: harrisMy family members would probably be much more upset if I was working for oil or tobacco companies. Just because other industries are "evil" doesn't mean that we are all beyond criticism.
I do not think that anyone should judge the typical blackjack dealer, but I might slightly judge the team who designs the "Genghis Khan Auspicious Mid-Autumn Festival" slot machine which includes the "Lucky Pangolin Fortune bonus" that has been specifically crafted by psychologists to appeal to East Asian grandmothers between the ages of 75-85 in order to drain their children's inheritance with a barely-legal RTP. I don't even think that casinos are a net-negative on society, but I feel like there are definitely exploitative practices that should be called out.
However I have come to the awesome conclusion think that some vices that I like such gambling and marijuana are inevitable and fulfill some sort of mythical, spiritual role in society whereas vices that I don't like such as prostitution and heroin add nothing to society and are unnecessary :)
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Much of the best music in the last century is heroin influenced.
Quote: billryanQuote: harris...
However I have come to the awesome conclusion think that some vices that I like such gambling and marijuana are inevitable and fulfill some sort of mythical, spiritual role in society whereas vices that I don't like such as prostitution and heroin add nothing to society and are unnecessary :)
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Much of the best music in the last century is heroin influenced.
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Not sure I agree. Many of them used it, but those same guys also seem to have done most of their best stuff before they got on hard drugs.
Also, in the prog-rock world I'm from it's not really respected. How many songs do I need to listen to that are ultimately about how bad their life is on drugs?
Quote: harrisMy family members would probably be much more upset if I was working for oil or tobacco companies. Just because other industries are "evil" doesn't mean that we are all beyond criticism.
I do not think that anyone should judge the typical blackjack dealer, but I might slightly judge the team who designs the "Genghis Khan Auspicious Mid-Autumn Festival" slot machine which includes the "Lucky Pangolin Fortune bonus" that has been specifically crafted by psychologists to appeal to East Asian grandmothers between the ages of 75-85 in order to drain their children's inheritance with a barely-legal RTP. I don't even think that casinos are a net-negative on society, but I feel like there are definitely exploitative practices that should be called out.
However I have come to the awesome conclusion think that some vices that I like such gambling and marijuana are inevitable and fulfill some sort of mythical, spiritual role in society whereas vices that I don't like such as prostitution and heroin add nothing to society and are unnecessary :)
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Over an oil company? So you become a petrochemical engineer in a lab developing new polymers, and they're going to say "Where did we go wrong?" Tough family!
I believe all vice comes from us, and the difference between some thing being a vice or being something else comes from us. So I can visit fine wineries, in my outdated cardigans, boring girls with my erudite speech and lectures on vintages, and nobody calls that a vice, that's just being a wine snob as a hobby. Or I can drink myself to death with cheap vodka from a liquor store. The alcohol is the same, the difference is me and how I use it.
Perhaps but I think most of these are indirect pet projects for politicians and special interests. In my state I believe the money goes towards education, horse racing, woman and minority owned businesses, and problem gambling. Schools are way overfunded and a waste. Horse racing is dying and not needed in society. Woman and minority grants disadvantages white men. Problem gambling would be almost non existent if state gaming didn’t exist. So I’m not seeing how any of the money lost benefits society, just pet projects.Quote: zbrownsonA lot of the tax revenue collected from gambling goes towards funding social programs, education, arts, infrastructure, that might not otherwise be funded. At least in theory, I know it depends on jurisdiction and proper allocation.
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