Hedonistic adaptation: .88 min bet bores me vs .75 bet a decade ago

From my thought here:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/slots/38377-mhb-min-vs-max-betting/#post951365

As slot manufacturers come out with higher minimum bet sizes, I get accustomed to it.
I need the 2nd lowest bet size to not be bored (if it's an option).
Ie: Yes on River dragons, not an option on a Hex3 play

I've seen a 3 person team play a $10k must hit at $5/spin (5 lines at $1). They're there for 24hrs+, taking shifts.
That would drive me nuts. I guess they have more discipline than me to minimize variance.

But even with video poker where I'm playing for points for a promo or next tier level:
10 years ago, .25 ($1.25/spin) 9/6 JoB got my blood pumping.
Now $1 ($5/spin) vp is just going thru the motions. I prefer a Multiplier to make it exciting. (Ie: super times pay)

And luckily, the best vp at $1 denom at one of my casinos is the stp version.

So I'm an action junkie?

It’s a slippery slope from action junkie to ploppie…!

Quote: camapl

It’s a slippery slope from action junkie to ploppie…!
link to original post

I still say if it's +ev and play it often (ie: $500 must hit) then max betting is ok because
1) it's the same house edge.
2) Playing it often means you smooth out the variance anyway

For $10k must hit, i'm doing at least $15/spin because i dont want to sit there forever. (But that's the standard bet higher due to time limitations)

The only ploppie thing i do is chase big mini's and minors where i have no idea if it's +ev.
It's just a big # that i normally don;t see.

Yeah, i should be playing 9/7 double bonus (99.1%) whenever i get that itch to chase a progressive that i dont know the ev of

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: camapl

It’s a slippery slope from action junkie to ploppie…!
link to original post

I still say if it's +ev and play it often (ie: $500 must hit) then max betting is ok because
1) it's the same house edge.
2) Playing it often means you smooth out the variance anyway

For $10k must hit, i'm doing at least $15/spin because i dont want to sit there forever.

The only ploppie thing i do is chase big mini's and minors where i have no idea if it's +ev.
It's just a big # that i normally don;t see.

Yeah, i should be playing 9/7 double bonus (99.1%) whenever i get that itch to chase a progressive that i dont know the ev of
link to original post

Are you up or down overall? Do you have +EV overall?

Can you afford what you are doing?

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: camapl

It’s a slippery slope from action junkie to ploppie…!
link to original post

I still say if it's +ev and play it often (ie: $500 must hit) then max betting is ok because
1) it's the same house edge.
2) Playing it often means you smooth out the variance anyway

For $10k must hit, i'm doing at least $15/spin because i dont want to sit there forever.

The only ploppie thing i do is chase big mini's and minors where i have no idea if it's +ev.
It's just a big # that i normally don;t see.

Yeah, i should be playing 9/7 double bonus (99.1%) whenever i get that itch to chase a progressive that i dont know the ev of
link to original post

Are you up or down overall? Do you have +EV overall?

Can you afford what you are doing?
link to original post

Up overall.

Most times its either +ev or I know my ev (ie: video poker).
And playing vp satisfies a requirement where the reward should make it +ev.

It's Just those rare times when I see a progressive that's higher than usual that I play, like a moth to a flame.
No idea if I'm up or down doing this. I can afford being a ploppie for these rare times.
I should keep records of this.

Edit:
Oh, you're talking about up overall not min betting? yes I am.
I've always gone up and down the bet levels like a piano on must hits.
I should try min betting and record results but nah. As I said in my op, I find the min bet boring.

I guess I'm looking for that big w2-g win and the +ev must hit is subsidizing it?

Quote: 100xOdds

I guess I'm looking for that big w2-g win and the +ev must hit is subsidizing it?
link to original post

Ah yes, the glorious satisfaction of a handpay!

Listening to the IGT Two-Step (you can dance a little if you wish), people walking by congratulating me. I can stand, rest, order a drink, go to the urinal because the machine is locked up. Then when the slot attendant comes by and peels off the bills into my hand, I feel like I am on the pedestal at the Olympics receiving a medal.

And... I recognize this as an unhealthy feeling- something that the casino is intentionally giving me to manipulate me, and to try to bury me in compulsive gambling. They are aware that machine play is a solitary activity, that often happens to provide stimulation to the lonely and frustrated. They have developed their handpay procedure to be a social reward for such people, some recognition, some interaction, public acknowledgement of their victory that feels better than it would to a person without any social privation and encourages them to play more and bet more. Very cruel.

Maybe keep this in mind and take note of how you feel next time you get a handpay, and see if you come to the same conclusion.

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: 100xOdds

I guess I'm looking for that big w2-g win and the +ev must hit is subsidizing it?
link to original post

Ah yes, the glorious satisfaction of a handpay!

Listening to the IGT Two-Step (you can dance a little if you wish), people walking by congratulating me. I can stand, rest, order a drink, go to the urinal because the machine is locked up. Then when the slot attendant comes by and peels off the bills into my hand, I feel like I am on the pedestal at the Olympics receiving a medal.

And... I recognize this as an unhealthy feeling- something that the casino is intentionally giving me to manipulate me, and to try to bury me in compulsive gambling. They are aware that machine play is a solitary activity, that often happens to provide stimulation to the lonely and frustrated. They have developed their handpay procedure to be a social reward for such people, some recognition, some interaction, public acknowledgement of their victory that feels better than it would to a person without any social privation and encourages them to play more and bet more. Very cruel.

Maybe keep this in mind and take note of how you feel next time you get a handpay, and see if you come to the same conclusion.
link to original post

For me, it's not about the social reward. In fact I hate the recognition.
It brings out the bottom feeders. 'Congrats... I need some bus $ to go home.. can you spare $20?'

It's about the $ which brings about the excitement:
300x win on $8.80 bet is $26xx.
300x win on .88 bet is about $260.
For $2400 more profit, I'll put up with the downsides of a Jackpot.

Wrong way to think of must hits?
instead, Play for the must hit with min bet and not use it as a way to subsidize a w2-g win?

And more importantly, does it matter math wise if it's +ev? (Assuming you play enough to smooth out the variance?)

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: 100xOdds

I guess I'm looking for that big w2-g win and the +ev must hit is subsidizing it?
link to original post

Ah yes, the glorious satisfaction of a handpay!

Listening to the IGT Two-Step (you can dance a little if you wish), people walking by congratulating me. I can stand, rest, order a drink, go to the urinal because the machine is locked up. Then when the slot attendant comes by and peels off the bills into my hand, I feel like I am on the pedestal at the Olympics receiving a medal.

And... I recognize this as an unhealthy feeling- something that the casino is intentionally giving me to manipulate me, and to try to bury me in compulsive gambling. They are aware that machine play is a solitary activity, that often happens to provide stimulation to the lonely and frustrated. They have developed their handpay procedure to be a social reward for such people, some recognition, some interaction, public acknowledgement of their victory that feels better than it would to a person without any social privation and encourages them to play more and bet more. Very cruel.

Maybe keep this in mind and take note of how you feel next time you get a handpay, and see if you come to the same conclusion.
link to original post

For me, it's not about the social reward. In fact I hate the recognition.
It brings out the bottom feeders. 'Congrats... I need some bus $ to go home.. can you spare $20?'

It's about the $ which brings about the excitement:
300x win on $8.80 bet is $26xx.
300x win on .88 bet is about $260.
For $2400 more profit, I'll put up with the downsides of a Jackpot.

Wrong way to think of must hits?
instead, Play for the must hit with min bet and not use it as a way to subsidize a w2-g win?

And more importantly, does it matter math wise if it's +ev? (Assuming you play enough to smooth out the variance?)
link to original post

My comment about the slippery slope was a bit of a joke that may be partially based in reality, but I’m glad to see the subsequent discussion among those with much more experience than me. Your right that the return (as a percentage) is the same over time for whatever bet size. However, time is money, so betting bigger ends the play sooner, thus increasing your hourly EV (unless you’re generating W2’s every spin!) As long as your emotional and physical bankrolls can weather the storm, I see no problem (for what it’s worth).

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: camapl

It’s a slippery slope from action junkie to ploppie…!
link to original post

I still say if it's +ev and play it often (ie: $500 must hit) then max betting is ok because
1) it's the same house edge.
2) Playing it often means you smooth out the variance anyway

For $10k must hit, i'm doing at least $15/spin because i dont want to sit there forever.

The only ploppie thing i do is chase big mini's and minors where i have no idea if it's +ev.
It's just a big # that i normally don;t see.

Yeah, i should be playing 9/7 double bonus (99.1%) whenever i get that itch to chase a progressive that i dont know the ev of
link to original post

Are you up or down overall? Do you have +EV overall?

Can you afford what you are doing?
link to original post

Up overall.

Most times its either +ev or I know my ev (ie: video poker).
And playing vp satisfies a requirement where the reward should make it +ev.

It's Just those rare times when I see a progressive that's higher than usual that I play, like a moth to a flame.
No idea if I'm up or down doing this. I can afford being a ploppie for these rare times.
I should keep records of this.

Edit:
Oh, you're talking about up overall not min betting? yes I am.
I've always gone up and down the bet levels like a piano on must hits.
I should try min betting and record results but nah. As I said in my op, I find the min bet boring.
link to original post

It doesn't matter, as long as you have +EV overall and can afford the limits you are betting, don't worry about it.

You're probably an action Junkie but as long as you put that action into plus EV situations and you can afford it, what does it really matter? If you start straying into negative EV to territory, and betting more than you can afford... that's when you need to start worrying about it.


Given your post history over the years, I would say you have quite a bit of gamble in you, it's probably more than you should feel comfortable with.

If you're asking the question, you know there's probably a problem. Keep yourself in check.

Quote: AxelWolf

Given your post history over the years, I would say you have quite a bit of gamble in you, it's probably more than you should feel comfortable with.

If you're asking the question, you know there's probably a problem. Keep yourself in check.
link to original post

Good thing when i started gambling at the turn of the century, it was craps 100x odds (thus my name) with near 0% house edge.
Started with $2 pass/5x odds then keep pressing on wins to 100x. (Only got to 100x once but never hit)

Back then i had discipline. i had a $500/day stop loss and actually stopped.
Nowadays, because i have more $, I let my debit card limit be my discipline. And the limit isn't that high, despite me wanting it higher. (fraud dept, blah blah blah)
That forced me to open a line of credit at the casino, which has expired because i never used it. (Guess that's a good thing)

hm.. just realized that i was pressing at 0% house edge.
Now i'm pressing in +ev situations.
Lucked out that my semi-degenerate path was on the right side of the tightrope. :)

As for betting high on -ev:
I tried $5 'gimped' 8/5 bonus poker (98.5%, $25/spin) a few times. Felt really really really uncomfortable playing it even though i always started with $1k in the machine.
Went back down to $6/line super times pay (98.25%).

Yet i have no problem playing Must hits at $15/spin and pressing to $25 or even $50.
In fact, it takes willpower to not start at $25/spin.
I guess the mentality of playing -ev vs +ev

I wrote this somewhere but i think it's appropriate here:
Whenever i see a big mini (or Minor) and don't know the EV, I should play vp instead.
(It's at least 98.25% and usually 99.1% at the casinos i play)

But it's more fun hitting the perceived +ev big mini than vp (even with multiplier).
Action junkie indeed...

Quote: 100xOdds

For me, it's not about the social reward. In fact I hate the recognition.

As someone who has gambled a lot and at some higher stakes, I agree with you completely about not wanting any attention. Over the years even the money didn't excite me on a big win. I was playing for +ev so wins were just wins and losses just losses where it didn't even feel like real money. On my first "big" jackpot I hit a Royal for $50k and even the people sitting next to me did not know until they came to pay me.