How do you hold onto a bankroll?

I have a bankroll that goes up and down with the winds. The problem is whenever it gets more up than down, I raise the stakes. Nothing major, but if I see a good dollar video poker machine, I'll play it, even though I know I can't afford dollars long term. I also wager too much at blackjack and other table games. For some reason I don't have any problem betting small when my bankroll is close to being busted :) What can I do to keep a handle on things? Best answer is probably to bring less on trips, though I am always afraid I am going to need all of it :(

I have voted for self discipline, which I do lack myself, and the win/loss goals. I play a lot off slots when in Vegas, so my money could dissapear quickly. I will only put say $20 bucks into a machine, if I dont get a feature, I wont chase it, Ill move on. (unless I get a feeling, but thats another story) and If I do get a feature, I cash out. I also set strict budget limits for the days and keep most of my cash in the hotel safe or deposit box (as I have all my cash to last me 2 weeks), so I can only spend x amount of my total bankroll. Having to walk back to the hotel lets me cool off and think about what Im doing.

Oh and putting my wife in charge of the finances also helps.

Quote: teddys

I have a bankroll that goes up and down with the winds. The problem is whenever it gets more "up" than down, I raise the stakes. Nothing major, but if I see a good dollar video poker machine, I'll play it, even though I know I can't afford dollars long term. I also wager too much at blackjack and other table games. For some reason I don't have any problem betting small when my bankroll is close to being busted :) What can I do to keep a handle on things? Best answer is probably to bring less on trips, though I am always afraid I am going to need all of it :(

The thing on bankrolls is we raise the stakes faster than we lower them. If you are jumping from quarters to dollars before your bankroll goes up by at least a factor of 4, there is a problem. Best advice I ever hears was never put more than 5% of your roll at risk per session. So with a $400 bankroll you get to bet $20 per session. So we know that won't really happen for most of us.

Remember also, bankrolls will not climb over time when you play negative expectation games. So that limits you to poker and sports-betting if and only if you are good at both. You can add in BJ if you are a good counter and Craps if you are a believer in dice-influence. In the interests of not starting another war here, lets say you can only build a bankroll over time with sports or poker.

Instead of thinking you can protect it and build it with negative expectation games, just relax and consider why you play. Is it for enjoyment? Is it to hit an occasional big jackpot? Is it to hit a small win and pay for your dinner or weekend? Is it to build comps?

So my advice is set your budget. For BJ make your session budget of say $800 for a weekend. Divide this into 4 sessions of $200 each. When you get up by $150 or down by $100 play for that session is over. Get yourself rated and have some comp meals in between, or a show. Whatever your play, budget, and the pit boss allow. Keep it enjopyable.

Quote: Croupier

Oh and putting my wife in charge of the finances also helps.

For sure! When I hand a chip to my companion and say "bank it"... its banked. Ain't no way I'm getting back until we are about to check out. Thats our agreement. It works.
Sure I too increase my betting when it seems I can do no wrong. Usually that is the time that "wrong" appears! We all feel "we are playing with their money" even though we know that is not the truth.
Its like passing by that dessert tray in the restaurant ... it takes will power!

Quote: teddys

I have a bankroll that goes up and down with the winds.

I have found it more- interesting and productive to ask how to hold onto winnings, which should be much smaller than the BR; and, how to "break even", at least before winning.

Even w/o an edge, or a lot of luck, most gamblers find themselves ahead at some point... so it's important to determine how much to bet to then be ahead enough to satisfy the holding part.

I play with a very small bankroll that doesn't get refilled very often. On the order of $300 (craps) and I take 2-3x odds + place the 6/8 with $6 each and I press -very- often. The way I'm able to hold onto my bankroll for a significant amount of time is simply by changing my variance to hold onto my original bankroll.

Example: I buy in for $120 and if I lose it all I'll buy in again and go full odds + place the 6/8 for $12 and press hard. If I'm way up, maybe I'll play a less-extreme pressing regiment. This requires a lot of luck and you WILL bust fast sometimes - but more often than not you'll end up even or a little bit ahead. I was able to play 3-4 times a week, 2-3 hr sessions, for a month like this before I busted out. The feeling of rallying from your last $50 back up to $300 is awesome.

Quote: AZDuffman

Instead of thinking you can protect it and build it with negative expectation games, just relax and consider why you play. Is it for enjoyment? Is it to hit an occasional big jackpot? Is it to hit a small win and pay for your dinner or weekend? Is it to build comps?

So my advice is set your budget. For BJ make your session budget of say $800 for a weekend. Divide this into 4 sessions of $200 each. When you get up by $150 or down by $100 play for that session is over. Get yourself rated and have some comp meals in between, or a show. Whatever your play, budget, and the pit boss allow. Keep it enjopyable.

Very wise advice. The only suggestion I would make is to not walk away from a winning streak. Consider ahead of time what you will do if you surpass your "win" goal. Rather than quit and walk away, I "bank" the win goal amount, and establish a new one (and accompanying loss limit). I don't consider the "session" over until I hit the new loss limit. It is nice to be in this position since you are filling your "lockbox", and are only risking the size of your profits.

Quote: teddys

I have a bankroll that goes up and down with the winds. The problem is whenever it gets more up than down, I raise the stakes. Nothing major, but if I see a good dollar video poker machine, I'll play it, even though I know I can't afford dollars long term. I also wager too much at blackjack and other table games. For some reason I don't have any problem betting small when my bankroll is close to being busted :) What can I do to keep a handle on things? Best answer is probably to bring less on trips, though I am always afraid I am going to need all of it :(

Think of your bankroll not as a separate amount, but rather, as a percentage of your total wealth. Let's say that your bankroll is $1000 and your personal wealth is $100,000. You get lucky and double your bankroll. You now have a $2000 bankroll out of a total personal wealth of $101,000. Is that a hugely larger proportion? No. Is that a reason to go berserk? No.

If I get ahead by 100%, I sequester the original stake, and then proceed to play as if the profits were now my only bankroll. That way, the worst possible result is that I break even for the trip, and I don't wind up increasing my bets, so I have just as good a chance of lasting out the remainder of the trip with my "new" bankroll as i did with the original amount.

Quote: Ayecarumba

Very wise advice. The only suggestion I would make is to not walk away from a winning streak. Consider ahead of time what you will do if you surpass your "win" goal. Rather than quit and walk away, I "bank" the win goal amount, and establish a new one (and accompanying loss limit). I don't consider the "session" over until I hit the new loss limit. It is nice to be in this position since you are filling your "lockbox", and are only risking the size of your profits.

The only suggestion I would add to your suggestion is know which streaks matter, and the only ones that do are poker and sprots-betting. The rest are independent trials. Poker is a skill game as is sports betting, so a streak there means you are doing somehting right. A streak at craps or BJ means you were in the right place at the right time. A streak at roulette menas you still haven't learned which games have the highest house edge............

Quote: AZDuffman

The only suggestion I would add to your suggestion is know which streaks matter, and the only ones that do are poker and sprots-betting. The rest are independent trials. Poker is a skill game as is sports betting, so a streak there means you are doing somehting right. A streak at craps or BJ means you were in the right place at the right time. A streak at roulette menas you still haven't learned which games have the highest house edge............

True, true. But in Craps or BJ, do you want to be Michael Jordan, or Brett Favre at their first retirements, walking away a winner, then wondering how much you left behind? Better to spend a bit of your profit to make sure the good times really are over.

I voted for self-discipline. I'll take my bankroll for the trip, and if I hit a bad streak early (which seems to happen alot), I'll slow down on the "spending" - maybe play pai gow to preserve my remaining bankroll, or play lower minimum tables. I'll echo that if I double my money, I tend to walk, but only after determining that the "independent event" has become independent in my eyes (I.e. - I think the winning streak is over). However, at the end of my trip, I'll usually play a higher than "normal" level of betting just to gamble a bit and see what happens.

I've told a friend about Michael Bluejay's 1/4 bankroll system, and he's done it a few times with limited success.

-B

Quote: Ayecarumba

True, true. But in Craps or BJ, do you want to be Michael Jordan, or Brett Favre at their first retirements, walking away a winner, then wondering how much you left behind? Better to spend a bit of your profit to make sure the good times really are over.

In craps or BJ I know time and hands are my enemy. Didn't you see the movie?

"In the casino business the cardinal rule is to keep them playing and keep them coming back. The longer they play, the more they lose. In the end, we get it all."--Sam "ace" Rothstein (disguised Frank Rosenthal) in "Casino."

Quote: AZDuffman

"In the casino business the cardinal rule is to keep them playing and keep them coming back. The longer they play, the more they lose. In the end, we get it all."--Sam "ace" Rothstein

"Our job isn't done till the customers last check to us bounces."--Benny Binion

Quote: EvenBob

"Our job isn't done till the customers last check to us bounces."--Benny Binion

Thaks for reminding me--I LOVE that one! I really wish I could have met Benny.

Quote: AZDuffman

Thaks for reminding me--I LOVE that one! I really wish I could have met Benny.

I like it because its the old Vegas in-your-face attitude. They still want all your money, they just never say it like Benny did. Now they hand you a pamphlet for GA while they take your last dollar.

Quote: EvenBob

I like it because its the old Vegas in-your-face attitude. They still want all your money, they just never say it like Benny did. Now they hand you a pamphlet for GA while they take your last dollar.

Yeah, now old vegas seems to reside mostly in the Gold and Silver Pawn Shop. Store motto? "MAKE RICK MONEY!" Tell the seller flat out you are not a retail buyer and this is what you will pay.

Yeah, I know much of it is for TV, though.

Quote: AZDuffman

In craps or BJ I know time and hands are my enemy. Didn't you see the movie?

"In the casino business the cardinal rule is to keep them playing and keep them coming back. The longer they play, the more they lose. In the end, we get it all."--Sam "ace" Rothstein (disguised Frank Rosenthal) in "Casino."

This is why the loss limit is equally important. I don't mind losing my last bet, to make sure it was the end of ride. Since some profits are locked up, I know that I will still walk away a winner, just a little thinner than the max possible.

Of course the hard part is to walk away, and not start another session immediately at the next table...