Session do exist poll thread

Here's the restarted poll thread:

I see a lot of people stating that sessions don't exist in gambling or that they are illusory.

The ball does not recognise the passage of time, does not recognise a new session beginning, etc.

I think the problem is everyone is applying the term "session" to the wrong participant. The casino game is not the participant. That is an inanimate object and in no other subject would someone attempt such a ludicrous suggestion. Sessions do exist because the participant is the person/gambler.

Replace any casino game with any other inanimate object and you see how ridiculous it is.

I will have a flying session on Monday with a cessna. I will have another session on Friday. In between, the cessna will be used for three other sessions with two other people. I am fooling myself when I state I am having my second flying session on friday because sessions are illusory. WHAT?

The roulette tables do not have sessions, it is the people who play at them, just as an airplane does not have sessions, it is the people who are flying them. We take the plane for a session. We go at the games for a session.

The term session almost always applies to the people, not inanimate objects. Congress goes for a session, it is the congressman, not their seats or the building they convene in.

My point is that gamblers can go on gambling sessions and they are not illusory. Results from one session do not have an effect on the next and the balls, dice etc, are unaware of these "sessions" but for practical purposes, they do exist.

December 25th, 2010 at 1:15:07 PM permalink
7winner
Member since: May 31, 2010
Threads: 8
Posts: 171 I vote yes with you on your thoughts.

This will be an interesting and very opinionated thread.
I see sessions as chapters in a book.

I do not believe the EV ALWAYS wins out in any session or combination of sessions.
The law of large numbers applies more to casinos than to it's gamblers.
7 winner chicken dinner!

December 25th, 2010 at 1:22:13 PM permalink
darkoz
Member since: Dec 22, 2009
Threads: 12
Posts: 74 Gee, I should have made this a poll.

Wizard, is there any way to add that now?

December 25th, 2010 at 1:24:26 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 14, 2009
Threads: 101
Posts: 2674 Quote: darkoz
Gee, I should have made this a poll.

Wizard, is there any way to add that now?


No. You could always just start over and make it a poll.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet

I believe the polls should say...
Yes sessions exist because the games have no memory...
No sessions dont exist because the game has a memory...

"I believe the polls should say...
Yes sessions exist because the games have no memory...
No sessions dont exist because the game has a memory"


No that is not my argument. Of course the games have no memory.

My argument is that sessions exist because they can only be applied intelligently to people. A gambler who says he has a winning or losing session is correct and should not be chastised by others.

I have a session. Not the craps table. I have no illusions about the odds changing or my chances are better if I come back. Nonetheless, I am engaged in a session of my own start and stop parameters. My argument is over the usage of the term.

Of course sessions exist. They just don't matter to your bankroll. Losing $100 in one bet vs. over the course of the weekend has the same impact on your bank account. Where things start to get silly is when someone says that you can do better overall simply by betting in fits and starts (i.e. "sessions") rather than all at once. That's just not the case. If you make ten $5 bets in blackjack or craps, your expected results don't change regardless of whether you make all ten bets in rapid succession, with a one minute gap between them, or with a one month gap between them. It's still the same ten bets.

If it's more entertaining to divide up your play, to take breaks, or to think about your play in chunks or sessions, go for it. But your bank account won't know the difference. Except maybe for tax purposes, in which case having fewer sessions is decidedly to your advantage.

Quote: MathExtremist

If it's more entertaining to divide up your play, to take breaks, or to think about your play in chunks or sessions, go for it.

For me its not so much a case of entertainment as to why I have sessions, but a way to budget and make my bankroll last longer. If I set aside x amount for gambling, then it could be spent in one session, or in a number of sessions over the day.

If I am not enjoying the games, then I will walk away for a while to preseve my money over the course of a day.

Quote: Croupier

If I am not enjoying the games, then I will walk away for a while to preseve my money over the course of a day.

Exactly. A "session" is what you make of it:
"ses·sion (ses̸h′ən)
noun
1.
1. the sitting together or meeting of a group; assembly, as of a court, legislature, council, etc.
2. a continuous, day-to-day series of such meetings
3. the term or period of such a meeting or meetings
2.
1. a school term
2. a day when school is open for classes
3. the governing body of a Presbyterian church, consisting of the minister and elders
4. a period of activity of any kind: a session with the dentist"

Obviously people have sessions, not the games. The games are ruled by math and are a part of every other similar game being played on the planet at the same time. The math for the game of roulette, for example, is being proven every minute of the day by all the roulette tables in the world. 12 reds in a row on one table is counterbalanced by 12 blacks in a row on a table 5000 miles away. You've heard that when you stick your toe in the ocean in FL, at that same moment you're sticking your toe in the ocean in France. Thats because all the oceans are connected, its just one big body of water. Same with table games, its just one big game of craps or BJ or whatever, and you just stick your toe in once in awhile.

The real question is not whether they apply to people (they do, of course), but whether they have any validity. And given that a "session" is arbitrary, or more precisely, that the minimum length of time that must separate two bets before those bets are part of separate "sessions" is arbitrary, I doubt very much that a "session" has any real validity or meaning, in the same way that most arbitrary measuring methods lack validity or meaning.

Frank Kneeland shares his viewpoint on sessions early on in a recent podcast from Dr. Peter J. Shield's Radio Series World of Unexplained Mysteries on KLAV1230am.

Kneeland, to me, is a welcome addition to our current cast of video poker writers whom we know well. Yeah, he hawks a book, but in a recent vpFREE post he's realistic: "Writing a book in todays market for profit is not viable." He primarily gives an historical perspective on his VP team play after a trial by fire on vpFREE and Paladin's Pulpit admonishing him not to out current plays.

And tying into teddys's recent trip report, Shield is a big fan of Joker's Wild.

Also, Frank hosts the Wizard on one of the most recent shows.

Sessions most certainly do exist. At the beginning of each session at my casino I use a match play coupon. If I play 3 hours today and then 3 hours next week I get 2 separate uses of match play coupons. If I just played 6 hours today i only get 1 match play coupon use. Same for the free buffet. Since the casino is 'paying' me to come for a 'session', and they must be on separate days, for me the concept of a 'session' could not be simpler.

I also agree that sessions do exist for the player, and they are an integral part of the player's gaming if he does it right.

Recently, when RS trained me I played 3 separate "sessions". If I were simply playing a single denomination like most AP vp addict zombies play, I'd have won far less because of the royal I hit on the 3rd level of one of those sessions. And it is very likely I would not have made a small profit as I did in each of the other sessions. I very well may have played right through that royal and blown every dime of it before I left, had it not been for RS.

Thank God for sessions.

"Of course sessions exist. They just don't matter to your bankroll. Losing $100 in one bet vs. over the course of the weekend has the same impact on your bank account"

I disagree. Sessions do have an influence on bankroll.

It is not the mathematics but the psychological effects.

If you lose your session stake, it is imperative to come back rested and reinvigorated. Otherwise you get angry, attempt to recoup your losses, feel like you've wasted a day and all that leads to stupid bets and money mismanagement--which definitely affects a players bankroll.

I have no illusions that the ball or dice do not recognise a new day or session, but leaving a losing session and returning has proven effective for the reasons above, as opposed to bleeding oneself dry continuing a losing battle.

Quote: darkoz

It is not the mathematics but the psychological effects.

True. The casino's computers recognize various sessions such as work shifts, days, night, Player's activities in relation to time, etc. The player recognizes different periods of times and different games and the psychological impact of the various activities.

If all life is six to five against, one might say there is just one session, but in reality, we all recognize sessions of various definitions and effects. For a casino's computer a session might be a day but for the gaming authorities who audit the Drop Box a session is the time interval between its being emptied. That session is very important to the casino and regulators, but not so very important to the players.

This is just the same with saying my Monthly Salary is $1.000 or my Yearly Salary is $12.000 or my Weekly salary is $xxx.
People will usually use the monthly if there are paid monthly and the weekly when they are paid weekly and this is their 'work session'.
For Gambling session is usually used when people cash their chips.
I really do not get what the fuss is about.
The people who believe in the 'memory' of the cards, dice or roullette ball can have 'memory theories' on per roll basis on 10 roll basis on a session basis on a 3 session basis (dice rembers for 3 sessions and the forget abou it) or whatever other 'memory' inanimate objects can have.

Quote: AceTwo

I really do not get what the fuss is about.

It looks like the fuss ended a couple days after Christmas more than three years ago.