Can hotels do this?

Signs posted in each room where I am on vacation that they will impose a $1000 fine for anything removed from the room

I don't even think that's legal.

I can't say, hey if you visit my house and something is missing I am going to charge your credit card a thousand bucks without asking you.

Lol, if I try that you report me for credit card fraud.

If it's court ordered of course but can a hotel chain just impose thousand dollar fines?

Quote: darkoz

Signs posted in each room where I am on vacation that they will impose a $1000 fine for anything removed from the room

I don't even think that's legal.

I can't say, hey if you visit my house and something is missing I am going to charge your credit card a thousand bucks without asking you.

Lol, if I try that you report me for credit card fraud.

If it's court ordered of course but can a hotel chain just impose thousand dollar fines?


link to original post

To borrow from the medical world, did they obtain informed consent from you?
When you checked in and they swiped your card were you made aware of this policy? If so, and you still checked in, it’s on you. If not, then if charged I would call my credit card company and have the charge reversed.

Stop stealing towels, bathrobes and bottled water. Didn't they have fines of $1,000 for not wearing a mask for COVID at the malls before the vaccines?

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: darkoz

Signs posted in each room where I am on vacation that they will impose a $1000 fine for anything removed from the room

I don't even think that's legal.

I can't say, hey if you visit my house and something is missing I am going to charge your credit card a thousand bucks without asking you.

Lol, if I try that you report me for credit card fraud.

If it's court ordered of course but can a hotel chain just impose thousand dollar fines?


link to original post

To borrow from the medical world, did they obtain informed consent from you?
When you checked in and they swiped your card were you made aware of this policy? If so, and you still checked in, it’s on you. If not, then if charged I would call my credit card company and have the charge reversed.
link to original post

I'm still in the room. I don't expect any fines.

I'm just incredulous they think they can get away with it at all

No one notified me of that policy. It becomes apparent only after you enter the room. It's on the desk next to the TV.

Fines are a tool of government to my knowledge although libraries used to charge a late fee as well as video stores. But certainly it was more an actual service fee (you kept materials longer than expected).

They mention prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. What if video surveillance shows I didn't walk off with anything and I am found not guilty. Their sign makes it sound like they are imposing fines Long before you even have a chance to clear your name.

In other words they are essentially taking an aspect of the law (imposition of fines) and claiming it as their right without any legislative delegation.

Looks like a ghetto motel

They will give you the choice of being prosecuted or paying them the fine. Cable companies do it all the time. I've heard of hotels charging hundreds of dollars because someone smoked in the room.
One nice thing about not being a thief is not worrying about policies like this.

Quote: billryan

They will give you the choice of being prosecuted or paying them the fine. Cable companies do it all the time. I've heard of hotels charging hundreds of dollars because someone smoked in the room.
One nice thing about not being a thief is not worrying about policies like this.
link to original post

Unfortunately history has shown innocent people are convicted of crimes as well.

Everyone should always be concerned.

Quote: Ace2

Looks like a ghetto motel
link to original post

From a placard?

I would consider it bluster aimed at deterring damage and theft. If you are concerned you will wrongly be charged an exorbitant fee after checkout, lock your account upon checking out.

Quote: darkoz

I'm still in the room. I don't expect any fines.

I'm just incredulous they think they can get away with it at all

No one notified me of that policy. It becomes apparent only after you enter the room. It's on the desk next to the TV.

Fines are a tool of government to my knowledge although libraries used to charge a late fee as well as video stores. But certainly it was more an actual service fee (you kept materials longer than expected).

They mention prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. What if video surveillance shows I didn't walk off with anything and I am found not guilty. Their sign makes it sound like they are imposing fines Long before you even have a chance to clear your name.

In other words they are essentially taking an aspect of the law (imposition of fines) and claiming it as their right without any legislative delegation.
link to original post

They informed you of the policy via the sign itself. There is almost a 1005 chance that it is in the fine print of whatever you signed when you checked in. At least 20 years ago, Holiday Inn started putting in signs saying "Due to the popularity of our linens we now allow you to auto buy them by taking them and we will charge your credit card the following prices."

As others mentioned, they can charge you a cleaning fee if you smoke in the room.

You are confusing "beyond a reasonable doubt" and "preponderance of the evidence." You leave a room with the coffeemaker or microwave missing then it is assumed you took it since only you had access to the room and it is on you to secure it. The hotel just wants no theft, though they may prosecute if you totally trash the room.

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: darkoz

I'm still in the room. I don't expect any fines.

I'm just incredulous they think they can get away with it at all

No one notified me of that policy. It becomes apparent only after you enter the room. It's on the desk next to the TV.

Fines are a tool of government to my knowledge although libraries used to charge a late fee as well as video stores. But certainly it was more an actual service fee (you kept materials longer than expected).

They mention prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. What if video surveillance shows I didn't walk off with anything and I am found not guilty. Their sign makes it sound like they are imposing fines Long before you even have a chance to clear your name.

In other words they are essentially taking an aspect of the law (imposition of fines) and claiming it as their right without any legislative delegation.
link to original post

They informed you of the policy via the sign itself. There is almost a 1005 chance that it is in the fine print of whatever you signed when you checked in. At least 20 years ago, Holiday Inn started putting in signs saying "Due to the popularity of our linens we now allow you to auto buy them by taking them and we will charge your credit card the following prices."

As others mentioned, they can charge you a cleaning fee if you smoke in the room.

You are confusing "beyond a reasonable doubt" and "preponderance of the evidence." You leave a room with the coffeemaker or microwave missing then it is assumed you took it since only you had access to the room and it is on you to secure it. The hotel just wants no theft, though they may prosecute if you totally trash the room.
link to original post

I'm the only one who has access to the room?

So you are saying the maid service and manager and other staff has no access? And that staff has never stolen anything in the history of staff services?

Seriously?

As to being in the fine print, that's not what I am asking. I am asking if it's even legal

Putting something into fine print doesn't make it legal or enforceable. I know of no law that allows exorbitant fines to be assessed by organizations for criminal offenses. Even a landlord has to go to court to prove they get to keep the security deposit if they don't show why and how they have claim to it, much less have the power to claim they are assessing fines.

If a hooker makes a contract with fine print it has all the power in court of garbage because it's fine print that's illegal.

No one has answered if they can do this. And no, I have no intention of stealing anything. This is a question for the forum no more.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: darkoz

I'm still in the room. I don't expect any fines.

I'm just incredulous they think they can get away with it at all

No one notified me of that policy. It becomes apparent only after you enter the room. It's on the desk next to the TV.

Fines are a tool of government to my knowledge although libraries used to charge a late fee as well as video stores. But certainly it was more an actual service fee (you kept materials longer than expected).

They mention prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. What if video surveillance shows I didn't walk off with anything and I am found not guilty. Their sign makes it sound like they are imposing fines Long before you even have a chance to clear your name.

In other words they are essentially taking an aspect of the law (imposition of fines) and claiming it as their right without any legislative delegation.
link to original post

They informed you of the policy via the sign itself. There is almost a 1005 chance that it is in the fine print of whatever you signed when you checked in. At least 20 years ago, Holiday Inn started putting in signs saying "Due to the popularity of our linens we now allow you to auto buy them by taking them and we will charge your credit card the following prices."

As others mentioned, they can charge you a cleaning fee if you smoke in the room.

You are confusing "beyond a reasonable doubt" and "preponderance of the evidence." You leave a room with the coffeemaker or microwave missing then it is assumed you took it since only you had access to the room and it is on you to secure it. The hotel just wants no theft, though they may prosecute if you totally trash the room.
link to original post

I'm the only one who has access to the room?

So you are saying the maid service and manager and other staff has no access? And that staff has never stolen anything in the history of staff services?

Seriously?

As to being in the fine print, that's not what I am asking. I am asking if it's even legal

Putting something into fine print doesn't make it legal or enforceable. I know of no law that allows exorbitant fines to be assessed by organizations for criminal offenses. Even a landlord has to go to court to prove they get to keep the security deposit if they don't show why and how they have claim to it, much less have the power to claim they are assessing fines.

If a hooker makes a contract with fine print it has all the power in court of garbage because it's fine print that's illegal.

No one has answered if they can do this. And no, I have no intention of stealing anything. This is a question for the forum no more.
link to original post

Yes, you are the only one with access. Employees do not count. And yes they can put terms in fine print.

You continue to be confused. It is not a”fine” it is “restitution.” They are not giving you for the offense they are making you pay back what you stole or damaged. All kinds of rentals have this. So yes they can do it.

What hookers have written contracts?

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: darkoz

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: darkoz

I'm still in the room. I don't expect any fines.

I'm just incredulous they think they can get away with it at all

No one notified me of that policy. It becomes apparent only after you enter the room. It's on the desk next to the TV.

Fines are a tool of government to my knowledge although libraries used to charge a late fee as well as video stores. But certainly it was more an actual service fee (you kept materials longer than expected).

They mention prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. What if video surveillance shows I didn't walk off with anything and I am found not guilty. Their sign makes it sound like they are imposing fines Long before you even have a chance to clear your name.

In other words they are essentially taking an aspect of the law (imposition of fines) and claiming it as their right without any legislative delegation.
link to original post

They informed you of the policy via the sign itself. There is almost a 1005 chance that it is in the fine print of whatever you signed when you checked in. At least 20 years ago, Holiday Inn started putting in signs saying "Due to the popularity of our linens we now allow you to auto buy them by taking them and we will charge your credit card the following prices."

As others mentioned, they can charge you a cleaning fee if you smoke in the room.

You are confusing "beyond a reasonable doubt" and "preponderance of the evidence." You leave a room with the coffeemaker or microwave missing then it is assumed you took it since only you had access to the room and it is on you to secure it. The hotel just wants no theft, though they may prosecute if you totally trash the room.
link to original post

I'm the only one who has access to the room?

So you are saying the maid service and manager and other staff has no access? And that staff has never stolen anything in the history of staff services?

Seriously?

As to being in the fine print, that's not what I am asking. I am asking if it's even legal

Putting something into fine print doesn't make it legal or enforceable. I know of no law that allows exorbitant fines to be assessed by organizations for criminal offenses. Even a landlord has to go to court to prove they get to keep the security deposit if they don't show why and how they have claim to it, much less have the power to claim they are assessing fines.

If a hooker makes a contract with fine print it has all the power in court of garbage because it's fine print that's illegal.

No one has answered if they can do this. And no, I have no intention of stealing anything. This is a question for the forum no more.
link to original post

Yes, you are the only one with access. Employees do not count. And yes they can put terms in fine print.

You continue to be confused. It is not a”fine” it is “restitution.” They are not giving you for the offense they are making you pay back what you stole or damaged. All kinds of rentals have this. So yes they can do it.

What hookers have written contracts?
link to original post

Why would employees not count?

So the maid steals the Television and I have to pay for it?

And I am not confused by "fine" vs restitution. They claim it is a fine.

If you steal something like say a toaster restitution would be the cost of the toaster, maybe $150 at best, not a blanket $1000 for a toaster

It's pretty hilarious you just accused me of not understanding what restitution vs a fine is when it's clearly you who doesn't understand the difference.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: darkoz

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: darkoz

I'm still in the room. I don't expect any fines.

I'm just incredulous they think they can get away with it at all

No one notified me of that policy. It becomes apparent only after you enter the room. It's on the desk next to the TV.

Fines are a tool of government to my knowledge although libraries used to charge a late fee as well as video stores. But certainly it was more an actual service fee (you kept materials longer than expected).

They mention prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. What if video surveillance shows I didn't walk off with anything and I am found not guilty. Their sign makes it sound like they are imposing fines Long before you even have a chance to clear your name.

In other words they are essentially taking an aspect of the law (imposition of fines) and claiming it as their right without any legislative delegation.
link to original post

They informed you of the policy via the sign itself. There is almost a 1005 chance that it is in the fine print of whatever you signed when you checked in. At least 20 years ago, Holiday Inn started putting in signs saying "Due to the popularity of our linens we now allow you to auto buy them by taking them and we will charge your credit card the following prices."

As others mentioned, they can charge you a cleaning fee if you smoke in the room.

You are confusing "beyond a reasonable doubt" and "preponderance of the evidence." You leave a room with the coffeemaker or microwave missing then it is assumed you took it since only you had access to the room and it is on you to secure it. The hotel just wants no theft, though they may prosecute if you totally trash the room.
link to original post

I'm the only one who has access to the room?

So you are saying the maid service and manager and other staff has no access? And that staff has never stolen anything in the history of staff services?

Seriously?

As to being in the fine print, that's not what I am asking. I am asking if it's even legal

Putting something into fine print doesn't make it legal or enforceable. I know of no law that allows exorbitant fines to be assessed by organizations for criminal offenses. Even a landlord has to go to court to prove they get to keep the security deposit if they don't show why and how they have claim to it, much less have the power to claim they are assessing fines.

If a hooker makes a contract with fine print it has all the power in court of garbage because it's fine print that's illegal.

No one has answered if they can do this. And no, I have no intention of stealing anything. This is a question for the forum no more.
link to original post

Yes, you are the only one with access. Employees do not count. And yes they can put terms in fine print.

You continue to be confused. It is not a”fine” it is “restitution.” They are not giving you for the offense they are making you pay back what you stole or damaged. All kinds of rentals have this. So yes they can do it.

What hookers have written contracts?
link to original post

Why would employees not count?

So the maid steals the Television and I have to pay for it?

And I am not confused by "fine" vs restitution. They claim it is a fine.

If you steal something like say a toaster restitution would be the cost of the toaster, maybe $150 at best, not a blanket $1000 for a toaster

It's pretty hilarious you just accused me of not understanding what restitution vs a fine is when it's clearly you who doesn't understand the difference.
link to original post

The maid is not going to steal the coffee maker.

What we have here is bad wording. They probably should have said “up to.” But the point is they can charge for damage or theft.

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: darkoz

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: darkoz

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: darkoz

I'm still in the room. I don't expect any fines.

I'm just incredulous they think they can get away with it at all

No one notified me of that policy. It becomes apparent only after you enter the room. It's on the desk next to the TV.

Fines are a tool of government to my knowledge although libraries used to charge a late fee as well as video stores. But certainly it was more an actual service fee (you kept materials longer than expected).

They mention prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. What if video surveillance shows I didn't walk off with anything and I am found not guilty. Their sign makes it sound like they are imposing fines Long before you even have a chance to clear your name.

In other words they are essentially taking an aspect of the law (imposition of fines) and claiming it as their right without any legislative delegation.
link to original post

They informed you of the policy via the sign itself. There is almost a 1005 chance that it is in the fine print of whatever you signed when you checked in. At least 20 years ago, Holiday Inn started putting in signs saying "Due to the popularity of our linens we now allow you to auto buy them by taking them and we will charge your credit card the following prices."

As others mentioned, they can charge you a cleaning fee if you smoke in the room.

You are confusing "beyond a reasonable doubt" and "preponderance of the evidence." You leave a room with the coffeemaker or microwave missing then it is assumed you took it since only you had access to the room and it is on you to secure it. The hotel just wants no theft, though they may prosecute if you totally trash the room.
link to original post

I'm the only one who has access to the room?

So you are saying the maid service and manager and other staff has no access? And that staff has never stolen anything in the history of staff services?

Seriously?

As to being in the fine print, that's not what I am asking. I am asking if it's even legal

Putting something into fine print doesn't make it legal or enforceable. I know of no law that allows exorbitant fines to be assessed by organizations for criminal offenses. Even a landlord has to go to court to prove they get to keep the security deposit if they don't show why and how they have claim to it, much less have the power to claim they are assessing fines.

If a hooker makes a contract with fine print it has all the power in court of garbage because it's fine print that's illegal.

No one has answered if they can do this. And no, I have no intention of stealing anything. This is a question for the forum no more.
link to original post

Yes, you are the only one with access. Employees do not count. And yes they can put terms in fine print.

You continue to be confused. It is not a”fine” it is “restitution.” They are not giving you for the offense they are making you pay back what you stole or damaged. All kinds of rentals have this. So yes they can do it.

What hookers have written contracts?
link to original post

Why would employees not count?

So the maid steals the Television and I have to pay for it?

And I am not confused by "fine" vs restitution. They claim it is a fine.

If you steal something like say a toaster restitution would be the cost of the toaster, maybe $150 at best, not a blanket $1000 for a toaster

It's pretty hilarious you just accused me of not understanding what restitution vs a fine is when it's clearly you who doesn't understand the difference.
link to original post

The maid is not going to steal the coffee maker.

What we have here is bad wording. They probably should have said “up to.” But the point is they can charge for damage or theft.
link to original post

AZ. COME ON! The maid just cleaned up the semen stained couch, garbage strewn beds, pee leaked bathroom floor, and sees THAT sign? She’ll be stealing the coffee maker or remote control every day of the week! Because she knows there are people stupid enough to think she won’t! I actually remember a story of a maid who had a side gig of selling hotel soaps and shampoos…..

Any business can try and charge you for anything. If they try and charge you for a service or product you didn’t buy you deny the charge via your credit card company. If they still feel you owe them $$$ they can attempt to sue you in court.

As far as ‘fine’ versus ‘restitution’, once the hotel puts a flat fee of $1000 then to me it is a fine. If they said ‘up to’ that implies ‘restitution’.

in my opinion, it is illegal. It short-circuits the civil litigation route that court systems offer. , It involves a determination of guilt by a party that has a financial interest in seizing your funds.

And yes, maids and hotel staff have access to your rooms. Any police detective would consider them as suspects if you reported a theft of your property from the hotel room.

I'm not a lawyer, but my best guess is they are allowed to charge and report whatever they wish. You are also allowed to dispute the charge. I doubt the New Jersey police will make a big deal over a missing towel.

Does anyone ask if it's legal when credit card companies charge huge late fees and interest for being late in a payment by $0.01?

I will say I would be offended by a sign that said they would charge me $1,000 for a missing towel, not to mention being reported to the police. I would be unlikely to stay at said hotel again. I like how one chain does it, where they post the gift shop prices for anything missing.

Quote: gordonm888

in my opinion, it is illegal. It short-circuits the civil litigation route that court systems offer. , It involves a determination of guilt by a party that has a financial interest in seizing your funds.

And yes, maids and hotel staff have access to your rooms. Any police detective would consider them as suspects if you reported a theft of your property from the hotel room.
link to original post

Agreed!

What's more the sign is not ambiguous at all. It says in huge print on top this is a "fine" and for the exact amount of $1000.

The small print then reiterates the charge will be billed to the CC on file, that the charge will be a flat $1000 and highlights the amount in bold.

For anyone to say they meant "up to" and "restitution" is a total reach

Beyond that aspect, I find it interesting that people have brought up the contract issue simultaneously with the "restitution vs fine" issue

Anyone who signed a contract that specified a fine and then the company says they meant restitution would have a clear legal argument that they DIDN'T sign what was written.

Can you write a contract and then claim you used the wrong definition and meant something else so please hold the contract in place?

A landlord to a tenant "Yes the lease said one year but I really meant UP TO one year so please vacate after three months ".

Lol, ridiculous.

I would be sure to steal the sign and nothing else

The legal missteps start with attempting to alter a contract after agreement and posting said alteration with a request that it be read but not obtaining acknowledgement, much less agreement. As I said in my previous post, bluster intended to prevent damage and theft by intimidation. The fact that they care not about offending patrons speaks to the values of the business.

Let's assume that the arrangement between the hotel guest and the hotel is a contract. The assumed terms of this contract are that the hotel provides a safe clean place (a room) to spend the night, and the guest will use the room and leave it undamaged and not missing any of the fixtures or non-disposable supplies like towels and linen provided for use during the stay.

The $1000. is a "penalty" for breaching (violating) the contract, by removing or damaging any fixtures or non-disposable supplies. You could also call it a sort of "liquidated damages" which is a fixed amount set by this contract for this breach of stealing/damaging. Damages in contract law are based on actual losses or in some cases punitive damages to punish the wrongdoer.

Just as an aside, punitive damages are more in tort cases to punish deliberate or reckless misbehavior.

When the amount of liquidated damages imposed has no reasonable relationship to the breach, it is called a "penalty" and for the most part is void (not enforceable), or at least subject to being reduced to a reasonable level. For example say I wrote up a contract where I rented DarkOz a pinball machine, and wrote up if DarkOz does not return the machine or returns it damaged that he would have to pay me $250,000. Unless that pinball machine is really worth anywhere near that quarter million, upon DarkOz's not returning the machine or returning it damaged, that $250K liquidated damages clause would not be enforced, and at best would be subject to reduction to something closer to the actual damages I suffered.

Another example would be if say I told a secret to someone, and we wrote up a contract where if the secret were revealed the breacher would have to pay me $1,000,000. Now, if that secret turned out to be something trivial, such as what I ate for dinner last night, then the liquidated damages would be viewed as a penalty, and be void (not enforceable).

In contract law, a set damages ("liquidated damages") clause is void (as a penalty) if it has no reasonable relationship to the breach. In general, in contract law damages, which are provable and have a reasonable relationship to the breach, are enforced.

So, if set (liquidated) damages for breach in a contract are reasonable, they will be enforced.
If set (liquidated) damages for breach in a contract are unreasonable, they are viewed as a "penalty" and not enforced.

In this hotel example, if the guest destroys the entire bed, lights it on fire and destroys the mattress and the entire bed frame, then the $1000. penalty would be not only reasonable but probably low.

On the other hand, if a guest steals a towel, a $1000. penalty would have no reasonable relationship to the breach - to the value of the item removed, and would be not enforced.

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

The legal missteps start with attempting to alter a contract after agreement and posting said alteration with a request that it be read but not obtaining acknowledgement, much less agreement. As I said in my previous post, bluster intended to prevent damage and theft by intimidation. The fact that they care not about offending patrons speaks to the values of the business.
link to original post

Generally speaking, your registration card that you sign will have something to the effect of you can be held accountable for missing items.

In terms of missing items, the housekeeper is not going to be stealing any items as the housekeeper would most likely be the one to report items were missing in the first place.

Secondly, I doubt that they would charge you $1,000 for a towel. If you stole all of the towels in the room, maybe, but missing towels happen all the time. Probably as often as not, the guest just took their room towel down to the pool (if applicable) and discarded it in the towel bin down there.

The housekeeper is not going to steal the TV. Of the two hotels I managed, both had cameras in the halls and on the entrances, so anyone attempting to abscond with something as big as a television would have been dead to rights. Besides that, when we found out the TV went missing, we'd immediately go to the camera footage and it would be pretty clear who was responsible for that.

In terms of people we actually charged for stolen items, off the top of my head, I can only remember ever charging for three things:

-A remote.

-A microwave.

-A comforter.

Why someone would want a hotel comforter, I have no idea, but the darned things are expensive. We're certainly not going to lose more than the cost of a one night stay to replace the comforter. That guest admitted to taking it; I half wanted to ask what they wanted it for, but I didn't; my best guess is they got a bunch of blood on the white underside, or something, and figured we would charge them for that anyway. (We wouldn't have.)

If it had been a standard Universal remote, I wouldn't have bothered. However, we had to get our remotes directly from our satellite company, so replacements were $70 apiece, or something. We even had to buy the ones that we had on standby as the only free ones were one for every room, one for the bar, one for the lobby and one for each office that had a TV. Again, that's just too much to eat compared to the price of the room. The guest didn't dispute the charge, but nor did they admit it that I know of because I don't think I had to talk to them.

As far as the microwave goes, I have no idea why he wanted a microwave that badly, but I just went (I forget where), bought a replacement microwave and billed that guest to the penny. We did have that guest on camera carrying out something very large. The guy called wanting to dispute the charge and I said, "Look, I have you on camera carrying out something roughly the size of a microwave concealed by a tarp. If we had an extra microwave just sitting around, then I probably wouldn't have even cared, but I had to go out and buy another one and that annoyed me. Go ahead and attempt a chargeback, if you don't think I'll report you to the police, just try me."

We also had a few in-room coffeemakers go missing, but we could get those for next to nothing, so I never cared.

Legal analysis aside, I'd assume that this sign was posted in a lower end hotel. You'd never see something like that at a really nice hotel, and probably not even at a pretty nice hotel.

For example once I stayed with a couple friends at a cheap motel. We were on the road and didn't have time to look for much else, and just needed a place to rest. The place had a checkout time of 11am or maybe it was even 10am and right at that time staff was going around pounding on doors telling everyone to get out. (Contrast that with say Wynn Tower Suites, where I routinely get a late checkout of 6pm and sometimes don't even leave until 7:30pm or even later and no one says a word.)

As far as missing items, at million dollar suites such as at Cosmopolitan, they just assume that the guests will dump vast sums in the casino, and from what I have heard and read everything and anything that isn't nailed down sometimes disappears, and the casino just accepts it.

Ten Things I Never Knew About Las Vegas Until I Ran a High-Roller Suite
“When a guest loses a million dollars in the casino, they want their million dollars back,” explains Mantle, who tallies stolen items every day. Artwork, duvets, even bathroom scales: gone, gone, gone. The oversized Oribe bath amenities? Pilfered by the bagful.

But some guests are especially brazen about their thefts. One requested that the butler team get slippers from a competing casino so he could steal those, instead of the ones by his bed. Several have brought extra suitcases and asked the butlers to fill them with items from their suite—think coffee table books, unopened alcohol, and decorative Hermès knickknacks.

At higher end hotels, they simply accept some level of "attrition" or leakage. But at this place DarkOz stayed at, they weren't interested in leeway.

But the bosses never believed in leeway...

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

The legal missteps start with attempting to alter a contract after agreement and posting said alteration with a request that it be read but not obtaining acknowledgement, much less agreement. As I said in my previous post, bluster intended to prevent damage and theft by intimidation. The fact that they care not about offending patrons speaks to the values of the business.
link to original post

I think it speaks more to the clientele, but that is conjecture.

I never steal from hotel rooms but here is my funny story:

I was staying at the posh hotel near the White House in DC. There was a knock on my door, I opened it and found a completely naked young man standing in the hallway, using one or both hands to cover up his package. He pleaded with me to let him come in -he appeared to have been drinking. he explained that he was in another hotel room with some friends (both male and female) and that they shoved him out of the room (naked) as a joke and would not let him back in.

I invited him into my room and gave him a hotel bath towel to wrap himself up in. So wrapped, he went back out into the hallway to plead with his 'friends.' I never saw him or the bathtowell again, but did wonder if I would be charged for the missing towel.

I was not charged for it!

Well I checked out today so I don't mind mentioning where I was at. Probably shouldn't have minded anyway since it was 100% not Casino related but everyone on this forum has security minds up the wazoo so ..

Not sure what qualifies for low grade hotel as people have surmised but it was the Harmony Suites just five minutes away from the new American Dream billion+dollars shopping mall/water park/Nickelodeon indoor amusement park/minigolfx2/ski resort in NJ. (yes ski resort in NJ, they built it like an indoor water park complete with real snow and gondolas so anyone can go skiing in July in New Jersey)

The hotel is one of the recommended spots on the Mall website.

I picked it because they had two-bedroom suites and I brought my family along, children and grandchildren and significant other.

Some pics:

Quote: MDawg

Let's assume that the arrangement between the hotel guest and the hotel is a contract....
link to original post

Good post. So good that I have no good crosstalk.

On a mostly unrelated note, I have a collection of hotel "do not disturb" signs. Some have taken me to task for it, calling it stealing. At the time, I viewed the value of the sign as insignificant to what I paid for the room. To make a comparison, sneaking a cookie out of a buffet. But I've since stopped, to be totally above reproach.

I still have some of the old actual physical keys from the Golden Nugget Vegas. It never occurred to me to take them, but a friend of mine apparently was collecting them unbeknownst to me back when I used to stay there some time back, and somehow a few of the keys ended up with me. Of course, there are no hotels left of which I am aware in Vegas, that use physical keys any longer.

As well, Do Not Disturb Signs as far as the resorts we stay at in Vegas, only the Venetian and Caesars still use those hanging signs. At Caesars they have the new electronic red/green light system in place in at least the Palace tower, but it doesn't always work and then housekeeping brings you a physical sign to hang on the door.

Point being that I don't think too many hotels now care that you took those signs because they no longer use them. And if you do continue to take them, just like the keys my friend took, pretty soon those hotels too won't care and will have disposed of them all anyway.

Quote: Wizard

Quote: MDawg

Let's assume that the arrangement between the hotel guest and the hotel is a contract....
link to original post

Good post. So good that I have no good crosstalk.

On a mostly unrelated note, I have a collection of hotel "do not disturb" signs. Some have taken me to task for it, calling it stealing. At the time, I viewed the value of the sign as insignificant to what I paid for the room. To make a comparison, sneaking a cookie out of a buffet. But I've since stopped, to be totally above reproach.
link to original post

I couldn't imagine even mentioning that to a guest. We got 100 for five bucks, or something. Being franchised does mean some things are cheaper than buying them at some other source and that's one example.

The coffeemakers were another example. We had to buy them ten at a time, or something, but they broke down to $7-ish each.

Future guests are generally the ones annoyed by the DND sign taken, as many if not most 2.5-3 star range hotels (holiday inn/comfort suites etc.) simply do not bother to replace them. So often maybe only 2/3 of the rooms have them, and then many guests without one see zero issue with taking one off someone else’s door and using it for their own room.

IMO it’s more along the lines of someone actually using the alarm clock rather than their phone and not resetting it before leaving, just annoying and impolite to the next guest. If not more annoying because it’s not plausibly a mistake/forgetfulness like an alarm.

Quote: Wizard

Quote: MDawg

Let's assume that the arrangement between the hotel guest and the hotel is a contract....
link to original post

Good post. So good that I have no good crosstalk.

On a mostly unrelated note, I have a collection of hotel "do not disturb" signs. Some have taken me to task for it, calling it stealing. At the time, I viewed the value of the sign as insignificant to what I paid for the room. To make a comparison, sneaking a cookie out of a buffet. But I've since stopped, to be totally above reproach.
link to original post

My brother liked the DND signs and I used to bring them when I traveled on business which was a lot back in management training. He later went on business too and had a ton of them. Hung them on his bedroom door for years.

Quote: Mission146

In terms of missing items, the housekeeper is not going to be stealing any items as the housekeeper would most likely be the one to report items were missing in the first place.

Secondly, I doubt that they would charge you $1,000 for a towel. If you stole all of the towels in the room, maybe, but missing towels happen all the time. Probably as often as not, the guest just took their room towel down to the pool (if applicable) and discarded it in the towel bin down there.

The housekeeper is not going to steal the TV. Of the two hotels I managed, both had cameras in the halls and on the entrances, so anyone attempting to abscond with something as big as a television would have been dead to rights. Besides that, when we found out the TV went missing, we'd immediately go to the camera footage and it would be pretty clear who was responsible for that.

That was my thinking when I posted my position on housekeeping isn't going to be stealing stuff. Don't forget they have to stash it somewhere then sneak it out of the place. Not easy with lots of bosses watching.

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: Mission146

In terms of missing items, the housekeeper is not going to be stealing any items as the housekeeper would most likely be the one to report items were missing in the first place.

Secondly, I doubt that they would charge you $1,000 for a towel. If you stole all of the towels in the room, maybe, but missing towels happen all the time. Probably as often as not, the guest just took their room towel down to the pool (if applicable) and discarded it in the towel bin down there.

The housekeeper is not going to steal the TV. Of the two hotels I managed, both had cameras in the halls and on the entrances, so anyone attempting to abscond with something as big as a television would have been dead to rights. Besides that, when we found out the TV went missing, we'd immediately go to the camera footage and it would be pretty clear who was responsible for that.

That was my thinking when I posted my position on housekeeping isn't going to be stealing stuff. Don't forget they have to stash it somewhere then sneak it out of the place. Not easy with lots of bosses watching.
link to original post

Can’t you just admit you were wrong? NO ONE is saying it is common. NO ONE is saying it is easy. What we are saying is COMMON SENSE would include ruling out all who had key access to the room. NO ONE is saying the maid was more likely to be the thief than the hotel guest. But please don’t make it seem like it’s impossible it was the maid (or plumber or electrician).

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: Mission146

In terms of missing items, the housekeeper is not going to be stealing any items as the housekeeper would most likely be the one to report items were missing in the first place.

Secondly, I doubt that they would charge you $1,000 for a towel. If you stole all of the towels in the room, maybe, but missing towels happen all the time. Probably as often as not, the guest just took their room towel down to the pool (if applicable) and discarded it in the towel bin down there.

The housekeeper is not going to steal the TV. Of the two hotels I managed, both had cameras in the halls and on the entrances, so anyone attempting to abscond with something as big as a television would have been dead to rights. Besides that, when we found out the TV went missing, we'd immediately go to the camera footage and it would be pretty clear who was responsible for that.

That was my thinking when I posted my position on housekeeping isn't going to be stealing stuff. Don't forget they have to stash it somewhere then sneak it out of the place. Not easy with lots of bosses watching.
link to original post

If a member of the housekeeping staff wanted a plastic single cup coffeemaker, I assume they'd figure out a way to finagle a new one, rather than an old half-broken one.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: Mission146

In terms of missing items, the housekeeper is not going to be stealing any items as the housekeeper would most likely be the one to report items were missing in the first place.

Secondly, I doubt that they would charge you $1,000 for a towel. If you stole all of the towels in the room, maybe, but missing towels happen all the time. Probably as often as not, the guest just took their room towel down to the pool (if applicable) and discarded it in the towel bin down there.

The housekeeper is not going to steal the TV. Of the two hotels I managed, both had cameras in the halls and on the entrances, so anyone attempting to abscond with something as big as a television would have been dead to rights. Besides that, when we found out the TV went missing, we'd immediately go to the camera footage and it would be pretty clear who was responsible for that.

That was my thinking when I posted my position on housekeeping isn't going to be stealing stuff. Don't forget they have to stash it somewhere then sneak it out of the place. Not easy with lots of bosses watching.
link to original post

If a member of the housekeeping staff wanted a plastic single cup coffeemaker, I assume they'd figure out a way to finagle a new one, rather than an old half-broken one.
link to original post

An acquaintance of my wife worked housekeeping at a strip casino in Vegas. She always had lots of jewelry available for sale to her friends. I had no idea they were paid enough to buy multi-carat diamond rings so often..

The maid would be the one who steal the easiest.

She comes around with the services cart which is huge and has stacks of towels and toilet paper etc. She brings it into a room and stuffs the widescreen TV under the towels.

She reports the TV missing and brings the cart to the bottom floor where she unloads it via the street exit and her husband who is waiting with his car parked outside.

A guest would have to explain a piece of luggage the size of a widescreen and be seen walking it out

Both parties would have to verify the inventory which I doubt is even done. I think it’s just posted up as a precaution for anyone thinking of stealing something valuable. Back during my glory day’s touring with bands, it was not uncommon for a band member to go off and totally trash the hotel rooms. TV thrown through the window and into the swimming pool was one that I recalled.

Whenever I use to fly out my girlfriend for a few days she always embarrassed the hell out of me by taking home all the soap and other toiletries. I never used any of it except the shampoo and soap.

Quote: DRich

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: Mission146

In terms of missing items, the housekeeper is not going to be stealing any items as the housekeeper would most likely be the one to report items were missing in the first place.

Secondly, I doubt that they would charge you $1,000 for a towel. If you stole all of the towels in the room, maybe, but missing towels happen all the time. Probably as often as not, the guest just took their room towel down to the pool (if applicable) and discarded it in the towel bin down there.

The housekeeper is not going to steal the TV. Of the two hotels I managed, both had cameras in the halls and on the entrances, so anyone attempting to abscond with something as big as a television would have been dead to rights. Besides that, when we found out the TV went missing, we'd immediately go to the camera footage and it would be pretty clear who was responsible for that.

That was my thinking when I posted my position on housekeeping isn't going to be stealing stuff. Don't forget they have to stash it somewhere then sneak it out of the place. Not easy with lots of bosses watching.
link to original post

If a member of the housekeeping staff wanted a plastic single cup coffeemaker, I assume they'd figure out a way to finagle a new one, rather than an old half-broken one.
link to original post

An acquaintance of my wife worked housekeeping at a strip casino in Vegas. She always had lots of jewelry available for sale to her friends. I had no idea they were paid enough to buy multi-carat diamond rings so often..
link to original post

If the maid is going to steal from the room she would indeed make it worthwhile. I do not think the Spilotro/Culotta crew was taking tips on coffee makers in rooms.

Quote: Vegasrider

Both parties would have to verify the inventory which I doubt is even done. I think it’s just posted up as a precaution for anyone thinking of stealing something valuable. Back during my glory day’s touring with bands, it was not uncommon for a band member to go off and totally trash the hotel rooms. TV thrown through the window and into the swimming pool was one that I recalled.

Whenever I use to fly out my girlfriend for a few days she always embarrassed the hell out of me by taking home all the soap and other toiletries. I never used any of it except the shampoo and soap.
link to original post

That's no biggie. Soap and toiletries are expendables. If they are opened even if barely used they have to be thrown out. Every guest wants an unopened clean bar of soap. Your girlfriend was just taking what she was supposed to use and take along.

I believe some people have an entire closet in their home filled solely with hotel toiletries, coffee packets, and restaurant condiment packets/plasticware.

Quote: mcallister3200

I believe some people have an entire closet in their home filled solely with hotel toiletries, coffee packets, and restaurant condiment packets/plasticware.
link to original post

So it was you slinking around my house uninvited???

I do like the post that suggested stealing the sign

When I went to Paris last year, my hotel had a policy that if you wanted room service, you had to ask and would get charged extra. I believe you could ask for clean towels for free, but I never did. I would like to say that I like that policy. The alternative is wasteful.

Last year, I stayed at a motel in Tucson that had seen better days. After checking me in and photocopying my DL, the clerk explained there was a $20 cash-only deposit for two towels and that everything in the room was inventoried, and anything missing would be billed on my credit card at its replacement costs. I was also told the pool closed at 10PM and I'd be charged $50 per person for violating the policy. I'd planned on staying three nights but checked out after one.

When I was younger I was travelling for business about 26 times a year (one year I travelled to Atlantic City from Las Vegas 51 straight weeks). I used to always take the travel bottles of shampoo and the soaps. At some point i realized it was silly as I had never used any of them that I accumulated.

At one point, I was doing about thirty days a year on the road and would bring home shampoo and soap bars. When I sold my house in NY and was packing up, I donated two boxes of the stuff to the homeless shelter a few towns over. I'm not sure why I saved them as I hardly ever used any.

I collect free hotel toilet paper rolls.

All my friends laughed at my ridiculous obsession until the toilet paper shortage during the pandemic. Then guess who was laughing.

Here's my toilet paper tower at the start of the pandemic.

And you were trolling me over taking home free bottles of tabasco?


The way all that works is that once the novelty wears off and you realize that you're not going to use the free - whatever - toiletries, cosmetics, condiments, even all the free (for me) stuff in the mini bar, anytime soon (if at all) you stop taking it. It gets old pretty fast.

Now, there was a time when some of the Vegas hotels did not add an automatic 18% gratuity to room service - tip was discretionary. Back then, sure, I'd order a $1000. (their price) bottle of liquor, tip the guy twenty bucks cash, and take it home, all comp'ed.

Quote: MDawg

And you were trolling me over taking home free bottles of tabasco?


The way all that works is that once the novelty wears off and you realize that you're not going to use the free - whatever - toiletries, cosmetics, condiments, even all the free (for me) stuff in the mini bar, anytime soon (if at all) you stop taking it. It gets old pretty fast.

Now, there was a time when some of the Vegas hotels did not add an automatic 18% gratuity to room service - tip was discretionary. Back then, sure, I'd order a $1000. (their price) bottle of liquor, tip the guy twenty bucks cash, and take it home, all comp'ed.
link to original post

LMAO it was mini ketchup bottles.

But yes you and I actually have a lot in common. Maybe cosmetic differences like watches vs pinball machines or ketchup bottles vs toilet paper, etc

Agreed, after staying in so many hotels, the novelty does wear off. I use to be on the road at least 250 days a year for 20 straight years. Thank god I focused on Marriott properties as I have earned Lifetime Titanium Elite status, less than 1% of their rewards members can claim that status since Marriott no longer issues lifetime status.

Quote: darkoz

LMAO it was mini ketchup bottles.

But yes you and I actually have a lot in common. Maybe cosmetic differences like watches vs pinball machines or ketchup bottles vs toilet paper, etc
link to original post

Ketchup too!


But as stated, the novelty wore off and I stopped taking pretty much anything at all.

Also as stated, we do have this sort of thing in common. 😁