Mosca
Mosca
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December 19th, 2010 at 9:02:55 AM permalink
Quote: Rob Singer

I'm not known as being tolerant with gays either, but it's only against those that have that God-awful lithpy "designer delivery" with wavy hands & fingers such as the ones you see in the clothing, home design, and other such industries on TV.



But a lot of these gay people are responsible for so much of the music, movies, art, theater, television, architecture and interior design (including of casinos), designing Christmas ornaments, horticulture, literature... not to mention writing your computer code, doing research on digital imaging, whatever it is that artistically motivated people choose to do.

And even if this ur-gay is just processing your bank statement, you don't have to understand gayness. But this is a cold, unfeeling world, and it isn't right to sentence someone to life alone just because of who they want to bang private parts with. I'm not going to tell someone who they can or can't love, and I think that's not too much for anyone to ask from other people; in fact, it's a pretty small thing, IMO.

I understand where you're coming from, and I don't expect you to all of a sudden enjoy "designer delivery"; I expect you to always feel as you do about it, and honestly, that's OK. It's how you feel. But I think it also makes sense to see it as something that you don't understand, but at the same time not care about, because it's really just some other poor schmoes trying to make headway against those 6-5 odds-against, in their own way.
NO KILL I
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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December 19th, 2010 at 10:57:50 AM permalink
Maybe this should be moved to free speech, but I can say that I am quite concerned that Don't Ask Don't Tell was repealed. [DADT]

I got suspicious about the kind of reporting that we began to hear: sympathetic-to-gay-activist reporters would have stories about someone stumbling over "don't tell" and getting tossed out because their emails were read. This of course instantly plays on civilian notions of fair play, never mind just how many of these individuals got busted in that way. Quite amazing how many DADT got discharged. Well, I'm sorry, but I don't believe those emails busted them because they said "I'm for gay rights". Those emails and other "tells" revealed homosexual activity, and, again, I'm sorry, but the kind of excess the gays get into is so astonishing it is easy for me to believe 99% of the cases of discharge were valid by any reasonable standard. I'm sorry for the ones that werent, I'm sure that happened too.

It is utterly amazing to me how dishonest and incomplete the political discussions become. Even reading Senator Inhofe's official objections shows politicians are heeding the old "you can't handle the truth" once again. His wording is carefully crafted and reveals almost nothing. We did not get an honest discussion about this, I'm convinced!

I doubt if DADT was broken, and if it was, it should have been fixed without a full repeal. It clearly made plenty of sense. We shall see just how this plays out.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Wavy70
Wavy70
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December 19th, 2010 at 11:10:38 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Maybe this should be moved to free speech, but I can say that I am quite concerned that Don't Ask Don't Tell was repealed. [DADT]

I got suspicious about the kind of reporting that we began to hear: sympathetic-to-gay-activist reporters would have stories about someone stumbling over "don't tell" and getting tossed out because their emails were read. This of course instantly plays on civilian notions of fair play, never mind just how many of these individuals got busted in that way. Quite amazing how many DADT got discharged. Well, I'm sorry, but I don't believe those emails busted them because they said "I'm for gay rights". Those emails and other "tells" revealed homosexual activity, and, again, I'm sorry, but the kind of excess the gays get into is so astonishing it is easy for me to believe 99% of the cases of discharge were valid by any reasonable standard. I'm sorry for the ones that werent, I'm sure that happened too.

It is utterly amazing to me how dishonest and incomplete the political discussions become. Even reading Senator Inhofe's official objections shows politicians are heeding the old "you can't handle the truth" once again. His wording is carefully crafted and reveals almost nothing. We did not get an honest discussion about this, I'm convinced!

I doubt if DADT was broken, and if it was, it should have been fixed without a full repeal. It clearly made plenty of sense. We shall see just how this plays out.



If the majority of active military thinks it will have either a positive or no effect on how they can perform the job why are you concerned?
Is the pentagon a sympathetic to gay activist organization?

Face facts if you are under 40 you most likely know and have gay friends. They aren't monsters out to steal you kids and recruit them.

This is no different than the idea that Blacks could not serve with whites.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
Mosca
Mosca
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December 19th, 2010 at 11:33:48 AM permalink
Yeah, free speech zone. I was trying to separate it away from the thread it started in, I didn't want to derail that one, and I don't usually start threads like this so I wasn't thinking about where to put it. I'm sure someone will move it.
NO KILL I
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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December 19th, 2010 at 11:39:24 AM permalink
Quote:


If the majority of active military thinks it will have either a positive or no effect on how they can perform the job why are you concerned?
Is the pentagon a sympathetic to gay activist organization?

Face facts if you are under 40 you most likely know and have gay friends. They aren't monsters out to steal you kids and recruit them.

This is no different than the idea that Blacks could not serve with whites.



The fact is the people in the military who have "no problem" with gays serving are people to whom the military is a job they report to daily then go home after doing some office work. Ask a combat unit and the view is far different. Ask someone who must bunk with and shower with other guys and the view is different than the guy who goes home to his apartment at the end of the day.

Homosexuality causes problems in military life, which is the reason gays were banned in the first place. The average gay male will have 100xs the number of sexual partners as the average straight male. The risk of AIDS in a combat unit alone is unacceptable enough to keep DADT. All we did was weaken a country to be politically correct.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
RobSinger
RobSinger
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December 19th, 2010 at 1:07:41 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

But a lot of these gay people are responsible for so much of the music, movies, art, theater, television, architecture and interior design (including of casinos), designing Christmas ornaments, horticulture, literature... not to mention writing your computer code, doing research on digital imaging, whatever it is that artistically motivated people choose to do.

And even if this ur-gay is just processing your bank statement, you don't have to understand gayness. But this is a cold, unfeeling world, and it isn't right to sentence someone to life alone just because of who they want to bang private parts with. I'm not going to tell someone who they can or can't love, and I think that's not too much for anyone to ask from other people; in fact, it's a pretty small thing, IMO.

I understand where you're coming from, and I don't expect you to all of a sudden enjoy "designer delivery"; I expect you to always feel as you do about it, and honestly, that's OK. It's how you feel. But I think it also makes sense to see it as something that you don't understand, but at the same time not care about, because it's really just some other poor schmoes trying to make headway against those 6-5 odds-against, in their own way.



I'm perfectly fine with gays who have given us all those arts, as long as they do not feel the need to get in front of the camera and look for lovers with their ridicuous delivery methods.

As for their inclusion into our military, even Israel allows it. Anyone who wants to risk their lives protecting myself and my family is a hero in my book, male, female, gay or whatever.
Martin
Martin
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December 19th, 2010 at 2:31:06 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

All we did was weaken a country to be politically correct.



As a practicing heterosexual I think you are full of crap - your very presence in my country (where I spent 20+ years on active duty) weakens it as a result of your small minded, petty attitude.

Exactly how does DADT keep AIDS out of a combat unit? How does DADT keep the clap or the crabs out of military units (and if you think those things don't exist you are mistaken). How does DADT keep drug or alcohol abuse out of the unit (big problem in Iraq and Afghanistan)?

Homosexuality causes problems in military life just as serving with blacks caused problems in military life in the 50's, 60's and truth be told even to today. When I entered the military in the 60's if you were married to a person not of your race you couldn't be stationed in Mississippi because that was "against the law" in that state. I suppose "political correctness" changed that law.

There are still people in combat units who dislike serving with races other than their own and there will always be homophobes in the ranks and out side of them. There will also be perverts and rapists and just plain out and out bad people (just because you put on the uniform doesn't change the character - you dance with the character you brought). Having served with some pretty bad characters (who were very good at what they did) I can guarantee the country is no weaker today than it was the day before yesterday.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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December 19th, 2010 at 2:41:47 PM permalink
Quote: Wavy70


If the majority of active military thinks it will have either a positive or no effect on how they can perform the job why are you concerned?



According to Inhofe," this survey focused on what would happen 'when' DADT is repealed and not 'if' DADT should be repealed."

I havent checked into what McCain had to say specifically. The whole thing stinks to high heaven to me. Again, what, thoughtfully, could have been wrong with the concept of DADT if the gays could behave?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
mkl654321
mkl654321
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December 19th, 2010 at 2:45:33 PM permalink
Quote: Martin

Homosexuality causes problems in military life just as serving with blacks caused problems in military life in the 50's, 60's and truth be told even to today. When I entered the military in the 60's if you were married to a person not of your race you couldn't be stationed in Mississippi because that was "against the law" in that state. I suppose "political correctness" changed that law.

There are still people in combat units who dislike serving with races other than their own and there will always be homophobes in the ranks and out side of them. There will also be perverts and rapists and just plain out and out bad people (just because you put on the uniform doesn't change the character - you dance with the character you brought). Having served with some pretty bad characters (who were very good at what they did) I can guarantee the country is no weaker today than it was the day before yesterday.



The ancient Greek armies of Alexander's time were predominantly homosexual, and that didn't seem to affect their fighting prowess any.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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December 19th, 2010 at 3:07:12 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

The average gay male will have 100xs the number of sexual partners as the average straight male. The risk of AIDS in a combat unit alone is unacceptable enough to keep DADT.



I gotta call bullsh*t on this. What is your evidence?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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