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AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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February 20th, 2021 at 1:45:50 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Throwing the phrase "my position is..." doesn't give you impunity from making such a dumb, ignorant statement. (attacking the statement not the poster)]



This is my position. You are free to have your own.


Quote:

The problem is that YOUR decision doesn't just effect just YOU. I find it disturbing, even selfish, that you wouldn't get the vaccination.



If you have the vaccine you are safe so no need to find what I do with my body disturbing. Lots of people have no intention of getting it. I have been a room of doctors who expressed reservations. Things that are rushed into production do not have a great record no matter what it is. With a 99.5%+ survival rate I do not want to take the chance.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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AxelWolf
February 20th, 2021 at 2:28:25 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

This is my position. You are free to have your own.



It is my position that the earth is flat. That doesn't make it so. That would be just goofy alternative reality nonsense and that is what you are doing.

Quote: AZDuffman


If you have the vaccine you are safe so no need to find what I do with my body disturbing.



It would be great if this were true, but unfortunately, this is NOT how it works. We can eradicate the virus by achieving herd immunity, at which point the virus will have no place to spread and will die out. BUT, this has to be done quickly because virus mutate way from unfavorable conditions. THAT is what viruses do, they are constantly changing. So immunity to the point of reaching herd immunity naturally, people recovering and developing antibodies is way to slow a process. The virus will continually mutate and change enabling it to thrive and grow stronger.

To reach this herd immunity in a short period of time, before the virus is able to mutate around it, requires a vaccine and the majority of people getting the vaccine. If people like you choose not to get the vaccine, we will not achieve this heard immunity and the virus will mutate away from this vaccine, making it useless. That is already happening. For the best understanding of this happing right now...look to Peru.

Everything I just said, isn't speculation. We have seen this time and time again. If you don't eradicate the virus it mutates and we are left dealing with it for decades.

Now this virus is deadlier than most, and spreads easier than most, a very dangerous combination. You are using a .5% death rate, which is fair enough. But that was for the first wave. If we fail to eradicate it right now and the window may have already closed or be quickly closing, future versions of mutated and stronger virus, may be 2%, then 5%, etc. You eradicate it now or you enable it to grow stronger. A stalemate is a losing proposition.

And if this plays out as stated there will come a point, where the people like you, who "chose" not to get vaccinated, which enabled the virus to grow stronger and deadlier, can no longer be tolerated. Those people (you) will have to be eliminated for the rest of us to survive. I mean, that is a long way off, but I would prefer we not get to that point. We have the capability to eradicate this virus right now, still in its infancy. But only if we all do what is necessary.

What if.....this is.....THE VIRUS, that scientists have warned about that can evolve mutate and strengthen to where we can no longer stop it. When it is killing 30%, 40%, 50%, on the way to 100%, we can all look back and say, we could have stopped it, but instead "chose" to take our chances.
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
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February 20th, 2021 at 2:29:53 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

2024: The life expectancy in the USA has dropped to 45 years old.


"A study published Thursday found life expectancy in the United States dropped to its lowest level in 15 years, and even lower for Black Americans and Latinos, during the first half of the coronavirus pandemic.

Data through June 2020 shows life expectancy at birth for the total U.S. population fell from 2019 by a year to 77.8 years, the lowest since 2006, according to researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Health Statistics. https://news.yahoo.com/life-expectancy-us-lowest-15-050011267.html
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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February 20th, 2021 at 3:29:46 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

It is my position that the earth is flat. That doesn't make it so. That would be just goofy alternative reality nonsense and that is what you are doing.



Except science says the earth is not flat. That is where the difference is.



Quote:

It would be great if this were true, but unfortunately, this is NOT how it works. We can eradicate the virus by achieving herd immunity, at which point the virus will have no place to spread and will die out. BUT, this has to be done quickly because virus mutate way from unfavorable conditions. THAT is what viruses do, they are constantly changing. So immunity to the point of reaching herd immunity naturally, people recovering and developing antibodies is way to slow a process. The virus will continually mutate and change enabling it to thrive and grow stronger.

To reach this herd immunity in a short period of time, before the virus is able to mutate around it, requires a vaccine and the majority of people getting the vaccine. If people like you choose not to get the vaccine, we will not achieve this heard immunity and the virus will mutate away from this vaccine, making it useless. That is already happening. For the best understanding of this happing right now...look to Peru.



So it seems you are saying it does not give protection? Yet another reason I am not taking a chance on it.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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February 20th, 2021 at 3:39:30 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman


So it seems you are saying it does not give protection? Yet another reason I am not taking a chance on it.



Of course the vaccine gives protection...for this moment in time and against the virus as it currently is.

But unless we are able to eradicate the virus by EVERYONE doing so, the virus will mutate away making this protection only temporary and useless against the mutated version in the near future.

That is what viruses are and the way they work.
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
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February 20th, 2021 at 3:40:43 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Correct. But you are aware that the likelihood of a gay male getting AIDS is a large multiple of the odds of a straight male? Data from 2018 showed 86% of new cases amongst males were of ADMITTEDLY gay males. So if you figure a few percent of the ‘straight’ males were not.... and if you figure 95% of males are straight, then you are more than 100-1 more likely to get it if you are a gay male than a straight male. Change my assumptions and maybe you get it down to 80 times as likely.

So it is a ‘mostly’ gay disease. Or ‘predominantly’ gay disease.

Very good explanative post SooPoo. I thought most transmissions these days came from sharing needles? After reading this post, I googled it and it appears only about 1400/ 38,000 [2018] of new cases come by way of sharing needles. The vast majority as you say, are caused by unprotected gay male sex.

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/overview/index.html
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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SanchoPanza
February 20th, 2021 at 3:47:26 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Evidently, the women who get it don't count.



They count but around 1/5 of cases are female, 4/5 male. So it is mostly, or predominantly a male disease, and mostly, or predominantly, a gay male disease. If you do not share needles and are not a gay male, your risk of contracting AIDS is extraordinarily low. And easily preventable.
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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February 20th, 2021 at 4:12:42 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

They count but around 1/5 of cases are female, 4/5 male. So it is mostly, or predominantly a male disease, and mostly, or predominantly, a gay male disease. If you do not share needles and are not a gay male, your risk of contracting AIDS is extraordinarily low. And easily preventable.



SOOPOO, can I ask what is the point of your 'aids is a day disease only' point and what does it have to do with covid which doesn't discriminate?
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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February 20th, 2021 at 4:15:01 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Of course the vaccine gives protection...for this moment in time and against the virus as it currently is.

But unless we are able to eradicate the virus by EVERYONE doing so, the virus will mutate away making this protection only temporary and useless against the mutated version in the near future.

That is what viruses are and the way they work.



Then do your part and get the shot. I will pass. I do not buy it so will not be taking part.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
darkoz
darkoz 
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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February 20th, 2021 at 5:08:46 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

SOOPOO, can I ask what is the point of your 'aids is a day disease only' point and what does it have to do with covid which doesn't discriminate?



AZ made the argument that if anti-vaxxers refuse the vaccine and are punished financially for it so should homosexual men who spread HIV.

That led to whether HIV is a "gay" disease or just a disease prevalent in the gay community.

AZ says having unprotected sex is a choice and so gay men spreading HIV should pay

So does AZ feel heterosexuals should pay for Herpes treatment and syphilis treatment etc? For being promiscuous

A promiscuous tax?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

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