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33 members have voted

AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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November 28th, 2010 at 6:22:44 AM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

Another example of making it up as he goes. He really should look up the facts before posting all his baseless assertions. There are many race engines that use jet fuel for exactly the same purpose jets use it: ultra high octane. Where does his mind travel to get these things? And jet fuel is over $6/gallon right now. That should tell you just how off this guy is in not just this subject, but everything else he writes his essays about also.



Not to defend the guy, but I do not think jet fuel has high octane at all, but rather it is very low octane. At a local airport the fuel trucks don't even have license plates since they never leave the field. And what do they use for fuel? If the engine is gasoline they use av-gas. If it is a diesel they dump in jet fuel. Anyone who knows diesels knows if you put even 87 octane unleaded in it the engine will soon blow sky-high.

Not to say jet-fuel does not contain more "energy" than gasoline in the same way gasoline has more power than ethanol and coal has more energy than wood. "Octane" is resistance to detonation. In WWII 100-Octane gasoline heped win the air war since allied planes could have a 10:1+ compression ratio and thus more power (think a 1960s muscle car) than a lower-compression kraut plane (think a 1970s smog-engine.)
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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November 28th, 2010 at 6:29:16 AM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

You mean there really ARE people who object to SUV's & pickups because of the amount of fuel they use? Even knowing how much it takes all the aircraft in this country to take off, land, and cruise each day? I for one would like to see the price of gas go to $10/gallon or higher. That way there'd be far less junkers, clunkers, and even some of those piss ant 4 cylinder weenie-mobile rice-burners that young people (and aging loners) can barely afford to drive around now.



Why on earth would you want that? Why is everyone paying 3xs for gas better than what we pay now? Why would you want people to suffer? With gas at such a price the economy would grind to a halt.

To the price of gasoline I find amusing the liberals who loved Al Gore who wanted taxes to drive the cost of gasolineto $2.50/gal. Several years later when it did hit that price the same liberals complained and called for hearings about "price gouging." Why didn't Gore call for a celebration and yet more taxes when it hit $4? Makes one wonder.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
JerryLogan
JerryLogan
Joined: Jun 28, 2010
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November 28th, 2010 at 9:22:44 AM permalink
Quote: benbakdoff

What year is your Camaro, Jerry? I've owned several muscle cars including Camaros, Chevelles and GTOs. I've never owned a Yenko although I did have a 68 Camaro SS 396.

Don Yenko used to bring his cars to the Connecticut Dragway and I've seen many of them including Camaros ,Chevelles and some really cool Novas.

Don is no longer with us and the drag strip is now a testing ground for Consumer Reports Magazine.



I know he's gone. RIP Don.

Mine's a '67, cool car. But it is in by no means excellent shape because I restored it to my specs instead of factory specs (meaning I cut lots of corners to save time). I keep it garaged in Casa Grande since I don't use it and I'm giving it to my son when he gets married some day.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 28th, 2010 at 9:55:35 AM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

You're a piece of work. Everything you just wrote AGAIN is totally false. I'll only post support on one item that makes you look like a fool since everyone will know what they already should know about your overall make-believe knowledge.

Here's PROOF of mkl's know-it-all JET A/LL assertion: http://100ll.com/
You'll notice that it is currently at $5.03/gallon in the land of hippies and hazel-nuts. And what is "JET A/LL"? Why, it's none other than what personal aircraft use, and is CHEAPER than what commercial avaition aircraft need.

As for the octane lie, since I know cars and he doesn't (aka, since he drives what a high school girl drives in a littly bitty Mazda and I've fully restored a Yenko 427 Camaro which I sometimes fill with aviation fuel with an octane ration of 108 for grudge nights at the track) well....we'll I'll let others judge your nonsense.



Wholesale price, Jerry. The airlines pay wholesale price. And there is no "octane" in jet fuel--your girly car uses GASOLINE.

You would think a so-called trucking expert would know the difference between jet fuel and gasoline....or the difference between the retail and the wholesale price of fuel...my hot-dog-cart theory about Jerry is looking more and more plausible all the time!
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 28th, 2010 at 10:01:16 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Not to defend the guy, but I do not think jet fuel has high octane at all, but rather it is very low octane. At a local airport the fuel trucks don't even have license plates since they never leave the field. And what do they use for fuel? If the engine is gasoline they use av-gas. If it is a diesel they dump in jet fuel. Anyone who knows diesels knows if you put even 87 octane unleaded in it the engine will soon blow sky-high.

Not to say jet-fuel does not contain more "energy" than gasoline in the same way gasoline has more power than ethanol and coal has more energy than wood. "Octane" is resistance to detonation. In WWII 100-Octane gasoline heped win the air war since allied planes could have a 10:1+ compression ratio and thus more power (think a 1960s muscle car) than a lower-compression kraut plane (think a 1970s smog-engine.)



I don't need anyone to "defend me". Jerry is wrong whether or not you or I or anyone else bothers to refute him. He doesn't seem to know that jet fuel and gasoline are two different substances, he doesn't know what "octane" is, and he doesn't understand the difference between "retail" and "wholesale". Pretty ignorant for someone whose supposed job is screaming at truckers all day.

Of course, the lower volatility of kerosene is precisely why it is used as jet fuel. Jerry doesn't understand that either.

The high-compression aircraft engines you mentioned were available precisely because the US had better metallurgy, and more readily available materials. Sometimes it does come down to who has the better factories.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 28th, 2010 at 10:32:01 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Wait, planes don't just run on fuel, they need ground crews, maintenance, crew wages, too. There's the intitial outlying costs -- what does a big airliner cost new, and how many cars could you buy with that? Airports also need upkeep. Air traffic contol costs too. Full time fire crews. Security, (other than TSA).



But on the flip side, cars need maintenance, and infrastructure, and police to monitor the roads, etc. etc. etc. I would imagine that it takes FAR less resources, time, and personnel to maintain one airliner than it does to maintain 125 cars--even though the airliner receives much more frequent and thorough maintenance than the cars do. I would also imagine that the total amount of paved roadway devoted to cars, not to mention bridges, viaducts, etc. is several hundred times the infrastructure realted to aircraft.

Those 125 cars could be bought for about four million dollars, so they would be a bargain compared to the airliner AT FIRST, but the design life of a moderen airliner is twenty years, and most airliners are flying for 8-10 hours or more, EVERY DAY, so you get much more out of one airliner than you would out of 125 cars--you're lucky if your car is still running after TEN years, and it sure wouldn't be running at that point if you drove it 8+ hours a day, every day.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
JerryLogan
JerryLogan
Joined: Jun 28, 2010
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November 28th, 2010 at 12:33:12 PM permalink
More flowing misinformation from mkl. There is octane in jet fuel, I've purchased much of it for my car, and if you had anything other than your continuing need to post essays to nowhere to counter that you'd be posting links like I did that made you look so funny over the price issue. Yes, when you're in a corner you do try to be creative, but you're as transparent as Saran Wrap. Whole ale vs. Retail?? What a joke. Everyone pays the same, and airlines may get a quantity discount each month. I don't know and you don't know, only you made it all up because it was the only option you had in another attempt to save face.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 28th, 2010 at 12:41:04 PM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

More flowing misinformation from mkl. There is octane in jet fuel, I've purchased much of it for my car, and if you had anything other than your continuing need to post essays to nowhere to counter that you'd be posting links like I did that made you look so funny over the price issue. Yes, when you're in a corner you do try to be creative, but you're as transparent as Saran Wrap. Whole ale vs. Retail?? What a joke. Everyone pays the same, and airlines may get a quantity discount each month. I don't know and you don't know, only you made it all up because it was the only option you had in another attempt to save face.



Wrong-o, Jerry. Jet fuel has an octane RATING, but there is no octane IN it.

Don't let your boss see any of your posts, Jerry. He'll fire you for fear that you'll put jet fuel in your trucks by mistake (since you've told us you don't know the difference). And you don't know the difference between wholesale and retail fuel prices, so you've been filling up your trucks at the local AM-PM. Costs a lot of extra money, Jerry. Could cost you your job if your boss found out.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
JerryLogan
JerryLogan
Joined: Jun 28, 2010
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November 28th, 2010 at 1:56:02 PM permalink
An octane rating without octane....sure thing. How long did it take you to make that one up?

You never admit when you are wrong since this forum is all you have in life outside work. But you're still the most laughed at here. Watch: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
joenunz
joenunz
Joined: Nov 18, 2009
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November 28th, 2010 at 2:49:01 PM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

An octane rating without octane....sure thing. How long did it take you to make that one up?




http://www.eejitsguides.com/environment/fuel-octane-summary.html

Not that I understand any of it, but from the third paragraph...

"The octane rating isn't really anything to do with octane, but rather its cousin iso-octane"
Insurance is closed.

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