Pickup Truck Pandemic of Las Vegas

Been in Vegas for five years now, and this is irking me.
In normal cities like New York, Philly, Baltimore, etc (if you can call them normal), you don't see pickup trucks without commercial plates. You just don't. And you're more likely to see lorry-type vans, to protect the cargo from rain, sun, wind, etc. You see Chevy's, Toyotas, taxicabs, Hondas, Mercedes, BMW's, and the like. Nobody there owns a pickup truck without reason, and there's just no reason. You generally just don't see 'em.

But here in Vegas, driving around 215, I-15, Tropicana Avenue, you name it, 30% of the vehicles on the road are these empty, huge pickup trucks with NO ostensible commercial utility in most cases, aside from some unwritten local compulsion to tool around in such things. WHY??!!

I once asked with very nice middle-aged lady floor supervisor who drives this brand-new 6.7-liter turbo-diesel pickup truck to drive the three miles to the casino, to rule on cards games:
I asked, "does your husband have a washer-dryer-freezer transport service?" No.
"Do you load saddles after riding horses?" No.
"Plumbing/Construction/HVAC sub-contractor?" No.
"Dirt bikes?" No.
"Hauling a Fifth Wheel?" No. We just stay at Sam's town and rent one. [Good answer!]
"Do you help friends move?" - Oh, hell no! I tell them to call the Santini brothers, because I ain't wrecking MY back standing up eight hours a day!
Hmm...the mystery continues....

Now I though about doing research on this, but you can't pull up to someone and have the following research-related conversation:

[Me, pulling along side of one of these jumbos:] Nice rig you got there buddy...
[Shitkicker] "Yeah, it's a 32-value 5.8-Liter turbo diesel with custom Gunderson hydraulic suspension lifters, wazoo-o-matic intake thrusters, and Carbo-matic alloy rims. I had to sell a two-bedroom Colonial in Anthem and move into a trailer park just to own this beauty...Can't get laid with a tatooed trailer park girl without it, I tell ya, so it's worth the 6 miles per gallon and $900 a month insurance and loan. Clearly.
[Me:] Brilliant!....and I thought the Jeffersons were movin' on up...also wondering....
[Me:] The rubber McNuggents you have dangling by the rear bumper...is that a BOVINE scrotal sac, or an EQUINE scrotal sac, as a technical point....I mean, it just lends a certain "je-ne-sais-quoi" of Urbane Sophisticaion to the rig, I mean here in da big city - along with that Areosmith stencil on the rear window. I'm trying to picture in my mind's eye how this all would add to my '92 Mercedes 190e....do I buy it at "World o' rubber scrotums," - or is it mail order? As for the gun rack....
[Hillbilly] POW! (lights OUT!)
[bystanders] Shit! CALL METRO...Jesus, his right eye must have flown thirty feet!

Obviously, there are certain social norms in this town that do NOT lend themselves to easy examination.

who knows the deal with all this? United Hyundai on Sahara went out of business selling 30-mpg Accents when gas was $4 a gallon....I'm at a loss.

Quote: Paigowdan

Been in Vegas for five years now, and this is irking me.

Why shoudl it bother you?

Me, I dislike SUVs on the road because they obscure or hide traffic signs and lights, but so do delivery vans, tractor trailers, buses and otehr large vehicles seen commonly on the road. Hell, I move on highways and industrial areas often, I've seen every kind of tractor-trailer combo, heavy hauling truck, cement mixer and cement transport truck in existence. Garbage trucks galore, too, not to mention every type of delivery van in every size and shape.

And some pick-up trucks. These are gaining some popularity in Mex City for small companies with small delivery needs. Also with large companies which need to pick up (imagine that!) a small portions of deliveries rejected by customers. This si very common in the food business, where sometimes a customer will take delivery of 3 tons of assorted meats, vegetables, cheeses and canned goods, but will later call to say hes returning 50 kilos of poultry he donesn't like the look of.

You're describing the Southwest. It's even more pronounced in Phoenix. Almost every hard-working boy gets a pickup, and in most every case the truck makes up for the undersized penis...just like the vicious dogs some of them tote around seem to do. The trucks over here generally are far more customized into the world of uselessness than what you see in Las Vegas. But at least Phoenicians can afford what they get, because we have real industry with real salaries here. In Las Vegas you see expired plates, and it's likely there's no insurance to go with that gem. And the reasons are simple: the machines and tables at the likes of Texas Station, Sam's Town, Boulder Station, Sunset Station, Ellis Island, Terribles, South Point, etc. etc., and the huge amount of low paying service industry and lousy paying casino jobs.

I had a p/u for a year and we quickly discovered that I didn't need it for anything (including making me feel better for that which I was not lacking).

Nareed,
I don't mind at all delivery/commercial trucks that are serving a bona-fide commercial need for small or large companies (landscaping, food service, HVAC, movers, etc.) - not all all, or in the least. God Bless them, they help keep the town running, with Business signage and commcerial plates. This is what I feel is just fine.Indeed, it's perfect for that. But people may choose what they want to drive, whatever it is. I'm puzzled by the secretary/salesman/dealer/accountant/lawyer using a high-rise six-ton turbo-diesel to routinely buy skirts and shirts and laptops at Walmarts, or bring a breifcase to the office.

I drive and live in peace with them all. I see trucks authentically used for commercial purposes - fine. Then I see trucks for grocery shopping, going to a show on the strip (a unless obstacle in traffic on LVB), dinging cars parked next to them in parking lots, and delivering a letter to the post office.

I do view it as a social thing - the wanting and needing to be surrounded by 5 times more metal, armour, height and fuel in the rough world where 70% of the other guys simply drive what is need and appropriate for the same family needs, and this is in stark contrast to valid commerical hauling business needs. This is entirely a different social use of the vehicle type. It's "Look at me, don't mess with me" in 6 tons steel and diesel more suitable for mine-stripping operations than for a jaunt to a Fresh & Easy. I see it frequently, and I find this silly.

Show tickets, travel, having hit games out, and the checking account balances all have a strong effect on my mind's pluses and balances in terms of self-worth and keeping up with the Jones'. What counts is the stuff I do, I accomplish, not the stuff I have for utility.

What's parked in the driveway, if clean and well-maintained, needs no vehecular obesity, attached genetalia, dangling rubber nuggets, or rock-band stencils on the windows. It needs to be clean and attractive for what it is, and kicks over when the ignition key turns, getting me to where I need to go. And the car I use most? Not the MB, it's a little 2007 Hyundai with a bruised bumper and five speed stick. And yeah, sometimes after wahing the Mercedes, my chest puffs up a bit, I admit it, just a wee bit.

I've heard the dual wheelers referred to as "Texas Cadillacs."

Big toys for big boys? Little boys?

Pickup trucks are related to the "display of fitness for mating" urge that drives (pun intended) the male of just about all species.

Whether or not the human male is in a monogamous relationship, he is driven to display his worth as a male to any available females, just in case (after all, in caveman days, there was no such thing as monogamy). So a big honkin' pickup truck serves the same function as a peacock's tail; any practical use the thing has is strictly secondary.

Quote: Paigowdan

I do view it as a social thing - the wanting and needing to be surrounded by 5 times more metal, armour, height and fuel in the rough world where 70% of the other guys simply drive what is need and appropriate for the same family needs, and this is in stark contrast to valid commerical hauling business needs. This is entirely a different social use of the vehicle type. It's "Look at me, don't mess with me" in 6 tons steel and diesel more suitable for mine-stripping operations than for a jaunt to a Fresh & Easy. I see it frequently, and I find this silly.

Are you also bothered by limos and luxury cars?

Quote: mkl654321

Pickup trucks are related to the "display of fitness for mating" urge that drives (pun intended) the male of just about all species.

Whether or not the human male is in a monogamous relationship, he is driven to display his worth as a male to any available females, just in case (after all, in caveman days, there was no such thing as monogamy). So a big honkin' pickup truck serves the same function as a peacock's tail; any practical use the thing has is strictly secondary.

You mean like how Boy George/Adam Lambert underwear attracts pickup truck owners who wear loafers?

Quote: JerryLogan

You mean like how Boy George/Adam Lambert underwear attracts pickup truck owners who wear loafers?

No, even if that actually occurs (and how on earth would you know??), because underwear isn't a good fitness display.

Quote: Nareed

Are you also bothered by limos and luxury cars?

No, not in the least. Limos? Luxury cars? I love 'em, and feel they're a better symbol for this town. Indeed, I own a Mercedes, clearly a luxury car; -and a nice riding car! Bothered? Love driving it. I'm bothered when driving a broken down jalopy that breaks down on the highway, just like the rest of us. I'm bothered when a Hummer, when leaving an adjacent parking spot, puts a dinger on my baby. I'm fine with any vehicle on the road, commercial, pickup, tractor-trailor, volkswagen, you name it - so as long as it's been driven well around me and others.

The point that I am trying to make is that I am not bothered in the least by anything or any particular type of vehicle when driving, aside from flying tires and engine blocks, and wreckless drivers in ANY vehicle type - from which anyone would want to duck, just like the rest of us.

Nareed, if you are getting my drift, my focus is solely only on the social and societal quirks of Vegas Car ownership - nothing else, really. And we have some here.
The habits, personalities, compulsions that dictate for some....

"that while a chevy Geo or Hyundai Accent is really what I need for around-town driving, especially in light of my service-worker bugdet and $3/gallon gas, I am for some reason compelled to buy an expensive, grossly oversize pickup truck ladened with expensive after-market gizmos, and festooned with Rock-band Stencils and dangling rubber genetalia, of which the flat bed part is always empty and sparkling clean from lack of any commercial use." These are the ones who puzzle me, okay?

The presence of this automotive 'clique' in such large numbers is actually one sort of social phenomonon of this town. I thought this, as my interest, was made clear, and apologize if I hadn't.

And my question is why? what's the deal? what does it provide someone when not consistently used for commercial, business, or hauling use?

Quote: benbakdoff

I've heard the dual wheelers referred to as "Texas Cadillacs."

Funny that. I was in a training class to start to sell auto loans to our customers. Learning how to use the black book to get a value. Instructor asks who knows what "DRW" means and I said, "Texas Cadillac." Went over OK him being from SAT.

If you never use the back seat of your car a similar sized pickup makes perfect sense.

Personally I don't care for trucks and SUVs but don't care what someone drives. Though I wish the suburban species of the SUV driver would learn that 4WD does not mean you are invincible in the snow and ice.

In the Midwest trucks were everywhere in the 90's, not so much anymore. Now its SUV's that are the rave, in a grocery store parking lot 8 out of 10 vehicles are SUV's. In Vegas I always get the impression a truck says you're on the wild side, a cowboy type, who's ready to go 4 wheeling in the desert or whatever. And that you probably have a small wee wee..

Dan, the point is luxury cars, not to mention limos, also guzzle gas, are larger than they need to be (one aspect of luxury is room) and take up too much space. Some are pretty tacky, too. So I don't get why they don't bother you.

Quote: Nareed

Dan, the point is luxury cars, not to mention limos, also guzzle gas, are larger than they need to be (one aspect of luxury is room) and take up too much space. Some are pretty tacky, too. So I don't get why they don't bother you.

You mean there really ARE people who object to SUV's & pickups because of the amount of fuel they use? Even knowing how much it takes all the aircraft in this country to take off, land, and cruise each day? I for one would like to see the price of gas go to $10/gallon or higher. That way there'd be far less junkers, clunkers, and even some of those piss ant 4 cylinder weenie-mobile rice-burners that young people (and aging loners) can barely afford to drive around now.

I'm not sure what $10 a gallon would do to the trucking industry...

Quote: JerryLogan

You mean there really ARE people who object to SUV's & pickups because of the amount of fuel they use? Even knowing how much it takes all the aircraft in this country to take off, land, and cruise each day? I for one would like to see the price of gas go to $10/gallon or higher. That way there'd be far less junkers, clunkers, and even some of those piss ant 4 cylinder weenie-mobile rice-burners that young people (and aging loners) can barely afford to drive around now.

Yes, Jerry.

Quote: mkl654321

Yes, Jerry.

Doesn't one the Wiz's rules specifically state than no posts of just a couple words are allowed? Look it up.

Quote: EvenBob

Doesn't one the Wiz's rules specifically state than no posts of just a couple words are allowed? Look it up.

Yes, Bob.

Quote: thecesspit

I'm not sure what $10 a gallon would do to the trucking industry...

It would not do a thing other than move more business our way and away from the independents.

Quote: JerryLogan

You mean there really ARE people who object to SUV's & pickups because of the amount of fuel they use? Even knowing how much it takes all the aircraft in this country to take off, land, and cruise each day? I for one would like to see the price of gas go to $10/gallon or higher. That way there'd be far less junkers, clunkers, and even some of those piss ant 4 cylinder weenie-mobile rice-burners that young people (and aging loners) can barely afford to drive around now.

Actually, Jerry makes a good point. (Horrors!) If you object to gas guzzlers, you shouldn't fly, either. Jets take up way more fuel than cars per passenger-mile. A single NY-LA flight uses as much fuel as driving your car 375 miles a month for a whole year. (h/t Michael Bluejay) I don't object to gas guzzlers, but just accept them as part of the American/human disease of just being wasteful and taking more than you need. For what it's worth, I drive a piss-ant 4 cylinder (but not rice-burner -- it's AMERIKUN), and I also fly.

Has Jerry ever mentioned what he drives? It must be a V6--I would say probably a big sedan or crossover like a Chevy Impala or Equinox.

Quote: JerryLogan

It would not do a thing other than move more business our way and away from the independents.

This is true. During the last gas crisis in '08, the independents dropped like flies at the rate of 100 a week (or was it 1000) going belly up. Its wasn't a pretty sight.

Quote: teddys

Actually, Jerry makes a good point. (Horrors!) If you object to gas guzzlers, you shouldn't fly, either. Jets take up way more fuel than cars per passenger-mile. A single NY-LA flight uses as much fuel as driving your car 375 miles a month for a whole year. (h/t Michael Bluejay) I don't object to gas guzzlers, but just accept them as part of the American/human disease of just being wasteful and taking more than you need. For what it's worth, I drive a piss-ant 4 cylinder (but not rice-burner -- it's AMERIKUN), and I also fly.

Has Jerry ever mentioned what he drives? It must be a V6--I would say probably a big sedan or crossover like a Chevy Impala or Equinox.

I believe he said he drives an Audi. Kinda girly, if you ask me.

The airline comparison is in error as stated. Modern airliners get about 50 seat-miles per gallon. So for instance, a 250-seat plane will use about 5 gallons per mile.
This would compare with two passengers in a standard sedan (that gets 25 MPG) times 125; those 125 cars combined would also carry 250 passengers and would also get 0.2 MPG collectively. So airline travel is more efficient that one person driving alone, just about as efficient as two people riding in the same car, and less efficient than three or more people riding in the same car.

There's another thing to consider, though--jet fuel is basically kerosene with additives. It is one of many products of the petroleum refining process, and has relatively few other commercial uses. It gets produced as part of the same process that makes gasoline, but it cannot be used in existing internal combustion engines (it isn't nearly as volatile). So using that kerosene for jet fuel is an efficient way of using a byproduct of the petroleum refining process. Furthermore, it costs just a little over $1/gallon (that may have gone up recently), so the cost/gallon/seat-mile is only about 1/3 the cost of an automobile seat-mile.

Modern jet travel is actually a pretty efficient way to get people around, even if you totally ignore the utility of getting people across the country in a few hours instead of several days.

Quote: mkl654321

It is one of many products of the petroleum refining process, .

Actually, the history of refining crude oil is a fascinating subject. What you get when you totally refine a gallon of oil is almost too hard to believe.

Quote: mkl654321

I believe he said he drives an Audi. Kinda girly, if you ask me.

The airline comparison is in error as stated. Modern airliners get about 50 seat-miles per gallon. So for instance, a 250-seat plane will use about 5 gallons per mile.
This would compare with two passengers in a standard sedan (that gets 25 MPG) times 125; those 125 cars combined would also carry 250 passengers and would also get 0.2 MPG collectively. So airline travel is more efficient that one person driving alone, just about as efficient as two people riding in the same car, and less efficient than three or more people riding in the same car.

There's another thing to consider, though--jet fuel is basically kerosene with additives. It is one of many products of the petroleum refining process, and has relatively few other commercial uses. It gets produced as part of the same process that makes gasoline, but it cannot be used in existing internal combustion engines (it isn't nearly as volatile). So using that kerosene for jet fuel is an efficient way of using a byproduct of the petroleum refining process. Furthermore, it costs just a little over $1/gallon (that may have gone up recently), so the cost/gallon/seat-mile is only about 1/3 the cost of an automobile seat-mile.

Modern jet travel is actually a pretty efficient way to get people around, even if you totally ignore the utility of getting people across the country in a few hours instead of several days.

Another example of making it up as he goes. He really should look up the facts before posting all his baseless assertions. There are many race engines that use jet fuel for exactly the same purpose jets use it: ultra high octane. Where does his mind travel to get these things? And jet fuel is over $6/gallon right now. That should tell you just how off this guy is in not just this subject, but everything else he writes his essays about also.

Quote: teddys

Actually, Jerry makes a good point. (Horrors!) If you object to gas guzzlers, you shouldn't fly, either. Jets take up way more fuel than cars per passenger-mile. A single NY-LA flight uses as much fuel as driving your car 375 miles a month for a whole year. (h/t Michael Bluejay) I don't object to gas guzzlers, but just accept them as part of the American/human disease of just being wasteful and taking more than you need. For what it's worth, I drive a piss-ant 4 cylinder (but not rice-burner -- it's AMERIKUN), and I also fly.

Has Jerry ever mentioned what he drives? It must be a V6--I would say probably a big sedan or crossover like a Chevy Impala or Equinox.

Yes I have. It's a 2010 Audi A8, and I'm proud to say it sports a nice thirsty V8. And if that irritates the little green fairies out there then all the better!

Quote: Nareed

Dan, the point is luxury cars, not to mention limos, also guzzle gas, are larger than they need to be (one aspect of luxury is room) and take up too much space. Some are pretty tacky, too. So I don't get why they don't bother you.

MB 190e is a 4 & 6 cylinder car, 22+ mpg. Economical, and not tacky at all. There are a lot of comfy, if not luxurious cars that are economical.

But as for gas usage, a limo is not a daily around-town car, and shouldn't be used as one, just as a truck shouldn't be used for daily jaunts either.
There's a difference between using a limo for a wedding, and to go to Fresh & Easy for a gallon of milk and some eggs.

Not that it's currently illegal to be wasteful with fuel. It will be.

And I would say a limo, like a high-riding pickup truck with a rubber nut-sack and an Aerosmith stencil on the rear window would be pretty tacky; Yes, I would agree some are pretty tacky. Vegas being vegas.....

Quote: teddys

Actually, Jerry makes a good point. (Horrors!) If you object to gas guzzlers, you shouldn't fly, either. Jets take up way more fuel than cars per passenger-mile. A single NY-LA flight uses as much fuel as driving your car 375 miles a month for a whole year.

What would the fuel cost be for, say, 125 people to drive 125 cars from NY to LA? How much fuel would be used to produce the electricity all those people would need while on the journey (gas station pumps, hotel rooms, restaurants, rest stops etc)? And how much would the cost in time be for the 125 people?

Seen that way, airplanes are very economical.

Quote: JerryLogan

And jet fuel is over $6/gallon right now.

So that means it costs 6 times more per passenger to fly than MKL calculated. I think I'll drive.

Quote: JerryLogan

Another example of making it up as he goes. He really should look up the facts before posting all his baseless assertions. There are many race engines that use jet fuel for exactly the same purpose jets use it: ultra high octane. Where does his mind travel to get these things? And jet fuel is over $6/gallon right now. That should tell you just how off this guy is in not just this subject, but everything else he writes his essays about also.

Retail price of Jet A at Portland, OR= $3.49/gal. Current wholesale price (what the airlines pay): $2.36/gal.

So I was wrong, Jerry, but you were more wrong.

And I did check the facts about airline seat-miles. I didn't say anything about race cars--who the heck was discussing race cars, other than you, with yourself?

Another thing you should know--"octane" is only present in GASOLINE. Jet fuel is not "high octane", or any other kind of octane, because it neither naturally contains the octane molecule, nor is octane added to it.

You are completely full of shit in just about every post you make. Talk about unfounded assertions--you are off by 150% on the price of jet fuel, and you don't even know what "octane" is! Pretty sad, for a giant of the trucking industry (you actually sell hot dogs from a cart for a living, I strongly suspect).

Quote: EvenBob

So that means it costs 6 times more per passenger to fly than MKL calculated. I think I'll drive.

Actually, the current wholesale price of jet fuel is $2.36. Jerry was off by $3.64.

Wow, what a nice piece on stereotyping and ignorance.

In different parts of the country, different vehicles are preferred. If you wanted to see lots of electric cars, you should have gotten a job in SanFran or Seattle.

"Shitkicker" and "Hillbilly"? Wow, it sounds like some urbane, metrosexual male expressing his anxiety when meeting a threatening sub-type that he dislikes and I also detect someone in distress over his sexual orientation perhaps? Just a guess. Oops! Did I offend anyone with that stereotype? But they're fun when used to promote your cause, yes?

For the record, I'm a liberal, not a gun-toting NRA member (though I'm tempted to buy a gunrack for the fun of it). I donate to homeless shelters and to help animals in need. I drive a pickup and I don't use it for work. But I guess I'm really just a shitkicker hillbilly who wants to knock someone's eye 30 feet. Ignorance is bliss.

Quote: JerryLogan

Yes I have. It's a 2010 Audi A8, and I'm proud to say it sports a nice thirsty V8. And if that irritates the little green fairies out there then all the better!

Actually, no one but you gives a crap about what kind of car you drive. And no, neither I nor anyone else is "jealous" of your big girly car that is one of the least reliable on the market.

Quote: mkl654321

Actually, the current wholesale price of jet fuel is $2.36. Jerry was off by $3.64.

Wrong! Here are the current prices:

Jet A Fuel

NC $4.40
NE $4.65
NW $4.49
SC $4.37
SE $4.58
SW $4.70

It differs by region, looks like the average is around $4.50

Quote: EvenBob

Wrong! Here are the current prices:

Jet A Fuel

NC $4.40
NE $4.65
NW $4.49
SC $4.37
SE $4.58
SW $4.70

It differs by region, looks like the average is around $4.50

I know the website you got those prices from. Those are RETAIL prices, Bob. The airlines don't pay retail prices.

I only checked the retail price in Portland, OR, and that price was $3.49.

Quote: Motor

Wow, what a nice piece on stereotyping and ignorance.

In different parts of the country, different vehicles are preferred. If you wanted to see lots of electric cars, you should have gotten a job in SanFran or Seattle.

"Shitkicker" and "Hillbilly"? Wow, it sounds like some urbane, metrosexual male expressing his anxiety when meeting a threatening sub-type that he dislikes and I also detect someone in distress over his sexual orientation perhaps? Just a guess. Oops! Did I offend anyone with that stereotype? But they're fun when used to promote your cause, yes?

For the record, I'm a liberal, not a gun-toting NRA member (though I'm tempted to buy a gunrack for the fun of it). I donate to homeless shelters and to help animals in need. I drive a pickup and I don't use it for work. But I guess I'm really just a shitkicker hillbilly who wants to knock someone's eye 30 feet. Ignorance is bliss.

I've got nothing against country folk. My family moved to Huntville Alabama from New York City, and truckers and farmers and all of the salt of the earth are...well Salf of the Earth people.

But when you start:
1. Putting Rubber Gonads onto your motor vehicles, or
2. Stencil the crap out of your vehicle's windows with Adolescent rock band logos like a 16-year old...and
3. Use vehicles so inefficient that they chew up a ton of fuel that we pay a premium to the Middle-East (a lot of that cash finding its way to a LOT of anti-american terrorists), and spew a huge amount of toxins into the atmosphere
4. And are actually proud of this....
then yeah, that is indeed some assinine Hillbilly shit-kicking crap.

And I'm not saying it's a GEOGRAPHICAL thing - it's a state of mind and approach kind of thing.
There are plenty of farmers and country folk who are urbane, read books, are not wasteful, and are sober, and then there are those who are not, and it has nothing to do with locale. Again, it has nothing to do with location or the area of the country. It has to do with actually being good citizens, instead of being fools with an American flag on top of it.

Quote: mkl654321

Those are RETAIL prices, Bob.

I just read the average price with the bulk discount to airlines is $3.90

Wait, planes don't just run on fuel, they need ground crews, maintenance, crew wages, too. There's the intitial outlying costs -- what does a big airliner cost new, and how many cars could you buy with that? Airports also need upkeep. Air traffic contol costs too. Full time fire crews. Security, (other than TSA).

True...
And if you NEED to get somewhere 400+ miles, or out of the country, you HAVE to spend to fly (fuel, personnel) as simply a necessary evil, if you want to look at it like that. No other option. (But Local driving in a truck is an unnecessary evil.) If we save on the road we will have enough left to also fly.

Quote: mkl654321

Retail price of Jet A at Portland, OR= $3.49/gal. Current wholesale price (what the airlines pay): $2.36/gal.

So I was wrong, Jerry, but you were more wrong.

And I did check the facts about airline seat-miles. I didn't say anything about race cars--who the heck was discussing race cars, other than you, with yourself?

Another thing you should know--"octane" is only present in GASOLINE. Jet fuel is not "high octane", or any other kind of octane, because it neither naturally contains the octane molecule, nor is octane added to it.

You are completely full of shit in just about every post you make. Talk about unfounded assertions--you are off by 150% on the price of jet fuel, and you don't even know what "octane" is! Pretty sad, for a giant of the trucking industry (you actually sell hot dogs from a cart for a living, I strongly suspect).

You're a piece of work. Everything you just wrote AGAIN is totally false. I'll only post support on one item that makes you look like a fool since everyone will know what they already should know about your overall make-believe knowledge.

Here's PROOF of mkl's know-it-all JET A/LL assertion: http://100ll.com/
You'll notice that it is currently at $5.03/gallon in the land of hippies and hazel-nuts. And what is "JET A/LL"? Why, it's none other than what personal aircraft use, and is CHEAPER than what commercial avaition aircraft need.

As for the octane lie, since I know cars and he doesn't (aka, since he drives what a high school girl drives in a littly bitty Mazda and I've fully restored a Yenko 427 Camaro which I sometimes fill with aviation fuel with an octane ration of 108 for grudge nights at the track) well....we'll I'll let others judge your nonsense.

What year is your Camaro, Jerry? I've owned several muscle cars including Camaros, Chevelles and GTOs. I've never owned a Yenko although I did have a 68 Camaro SS 396.

Don Yenko used to bring his cars to the Connecticut Dragway and I've seen many of them including Camaros ,Chevelles and some really cool Novas.

Don is no longer with us and the drag strip is now a testing ground for Consumer Reports Magazine.

Quote: JerryLogan

Another example of making it up as he goes. He really should look up the facts before posting all his baseless assertions. There are many race engines that use jet fuel for exactly the same purpose jets use it: ultra high octane. Where does his mind travel to get these things? And jet fuel is over $6/gallon right now. That should tell you just how off this guy is in not just this subject, but everything else he writes his essays about also.

Not to defend the guy, but I do not think jet fuel has high octane at all, but rather it is very low octane. At a local airport the fuel trucks don't even have license plates since they never leave the field. And what do they use for fuel? If the engine is gasoline they use av-gas. If it is a diesel they dump in jet fuel. Anyone who knows diesels knows if you put even 87 octane unleaded in it the engine will soon blow sky-high.

Not to say jet-fuel does not contain more "energy" than gasoline in the same way gasoline has more power than ethanol and coal has more energy than wood. "Octane" is resistance to detonation. In WWII 100-Octane gasoline heped win the air war since allied planes could have a 10:1+ compression ratio and thus more power (think a 1960s muscle car) than a lower-compression kraut plane (think a 1970s smog-engine.)

Quote: JerryLogan

You mean there really ARE people who object to SUV's & pickups because of the amount of fuel they use? Even knowing how much it takes all the aircraft in this country to take off, land, and cruise each day? I for one would like to see the price of gas go to $10/gallon or higher. That way there'd be far less junkers, clunkers, and even some of those piss ant 4 cylinder weenie-mobile rice-burners that young people (and aging loners) can barely afford to drive around now.

Why on earth would you want that? Why is everyone paying 3xs for gas better than what we pay now? Why would you want people to suffer? With gas at such a price the economy would grind to a halt.

To the price of gasoline I find amusing the liberals who loved Al Gore who wanted taxes to drive the cost of gasolineto $2.50/gal. Several years later when it did hit that price the same liberals complained and called for hearings about "price gouging." Why didn't Gore call for a celebration and yet more taxes when it hit $4? Makes one wonder.

Quote: benbakdoff

What year is your Camaro, Jerry? I've owned several muscle cars including Camaros, Chevelles and GTOs. I've never owned a Yenko although I did have a 68 Camaro SS 396.

Don Yenko used to bring his cars to the Connecticut Dragway and I've seen many of them including Camaros ,Chevelles and some really cool Novas.

Don is no longer with us and the drag strip is now a testing ground for Consumer Reports Magazine.

I know he's gone. RIP Don.

Mine's a '67, cool car. But it is in by no means excellent shape because I restored it to my specs instead of factory specs (meaning I cut lots of corners to save time). I keep it garaged in Casa Grande since I don't use it and I'm giving it to my son when he gets married some day.

Quote: JerryLogan

You're a piece of work. Everything you just wrote AGAIN is totally false. I'll only post support on one item that makes you look like a fool since everyone will know what they already should know about your overall make-believe knowledge.

Here's PROOF of mkl's know-it-all JET A/LL assertion: http://100ll.com/
You'll notice that it is currently at $5.03/gallon in the land of hippies and hazel-nuts. And what is "JET A/LL"? Why, it's none other than what personal aircraft use, and is CHEAPER than what commercial avaition aircraft need.

As for the octane lie, since I know cars and he doesn't (aka, since he drives what a high school girl drives in a littly bitty Mazda and I've fully restored a Yenko 427 Camaro which I sometimes fill with aviation fuel with an octane ration of 108 for grudge nights at the track) well....we'll I'll let others judge your nonsense.

Wholesale price, Jerry. The airlines pay wholesale price. And there is no "octane" in jet fuel--your girly car uses GASOLINE.

You would think a so-called trucking expert would know the difference between jet fuel and gasoline....or the difference between the retail and the wholesale price of fuel...my hot-dog-cart theory about Jerry is looking more and more plausible all the time!

Quote: AZDuffman

Not to defend the guy, but I do not think jet fuel has high octane at all, but rather it is very low octane. At a local airport the fuel trucks don't even have license plates since they never leave the field. And what do they use for fuel? If the engine is gasoline they use av-gas. If it is a diesel they dump in jet fuel. Anyone who knows diesels knows if you put even 87 octane unleaded in it the engine will soon blow sky-high.

Not to say jet-fuel does not contain more "energy" than gasoline in the same way gasoline has more power than ethanol and coal has more energy than wood. "Octane" is resistance to detonation. In WWII 100-Octane gasoline heped win the air war since allied planes could have a 10:1+ compression ratio and thus more power (think a 1960s muscle car) than a lower-compression kraut plane (think a 1970s smog-engine.)

I don't need anyone to "defend me". Jerry is wrong whether or not you or I or anyone else bothers to refute him. He doesn't seem to know that jet fuel and gasoline are two different substances, he doesn't know what "octane" is, and he doesn't understand the difference between "retail" and "wholesale". Pretty ignorant for someone whose supposed job is screaming at truckers all day.

Of course, the lower volatility of kerosene is precisely why it is used as jet fuel. Jerry doesn't understand that either.

The high-compression aircraft engines you mentioned were available precisely because the US had better metallurgy, and more readily available materials. Sometimes it does come down to who has the better factories.

Quote: rxwine

Wait, planes don't just run on fuel, they need ground crews, maintenance, crew wages, too. There's the intitial outlying costs -- what does a big airliner cost new, and how many cars could you buy with that? Airports also need upkeep. Air traffic contol costs too. Full time fire crews. Security, (other than TSA).

But on the flip side, cars need maintenance, and infrastructure, and police to monitor the roads, etc. etc. etc. I would imagine that it takes FAR less resources, time, and personnel to maintain one airliner than it does to maintain 125 cars--even though the airliner receives much more frequent and thorough maintenance than the cars do. I would also imagine that the total amount of paved roadway devoted to cars, not to mention bridges, viaducts, etc. is several hundred times the infrastructure realted to aircraft.

Those 125 cars could be bought for about four million dollars, so they would be a bargain compared to the airliner AT FIRST, but the design life of a moderen airliner is twenty years, and most airliners are flying for 8-10 hours or more, EVERY DAY, so you get much more out of one airliner than you would out of 125 cars--you're lucky if your car is still running after TEN years, and it sure wouldn't be running at that point if you drove it 8+ hours a day, every day.

More flowing misinformation from mkl. There is octane in jet fuel, I've purchased much of it for my car, and if you had anything other than your continuing need to post essays to nowhere to counter that you'd be posting links like I did that made you look so funny over the price issue. Yes, when you're in a corner you do try to be creative, but you're as transparent as Saran Wrap. Whole ale vs. Retail?? What a joke. Everyone pays the same, and airlines may get a quantity discount each month. I don't know and you don't know, only you made it all up because it was the only option you had in another attempt to save face.

Quote: JerryLogan

More flowing misinformation from mkl. There is octane in jet fuel, I've purchased much of it for my car, and if you had anything other than your continuing need to post essays to nowhere to counter that you'd be posting links like I did that made you look so funny over the price issue. Yes, when you're in a corner you do try to be creative, but you're as transparent as Saran Wrap. Whole ale vs. Retail?? What a joke. Everyone pays the same, and airlines may get a quantity discount each month. I don't know and you don't know, only you made it all up because it was the only option you had in another attempt to save face.

Wrong-o, Jerry. Jet fuel has an octane RATING, but there is no octane IN it.

Don't let your boss see any of your posts, Jerry. He'll fire you for fear that you'll put jet fuel in your trucks by mistake (since you've told us you don't know the difference). And you don't know the difference between wholesale and retail fuel prices, so you've been filling up your trucks at the local AM-PM. Costs a lot of extra money, Jerry. Could cost you your job if your boss found out.

An octane rating without octane....sure thing. How long did it take you to make that one up?

You never admit when you are wrong since this forum is all you have in life outside work. But you're still the most laughed at here. Watch: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Quote: JerryLogan

An octane rating without octane....sure thing. How long did it take you to make that one up?

http://www.eejitsguides.com/environment/fuel-octane-summary.html

Not that I understand any of it, but from the third paragraph...

"The octane rating isn't really anything to do with octane, but rather its cousin iso-octane"