Homeless man $6 deadly flip
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/las-vegas-man-accused-goading-homeless-man-deadly-stunt-arrested-n1233990
laughed and laughed for 10
min and wouldn't let anyone
call for help.
Jones was taken into custody on July 14 and booked into the Clark County Detention Center for felony willful disregard of a person’s safety.
Quote: EvenBobDid you watch the video? They
laughed and laughed for 10
min and wouldn't let anyone
call for help.
Jones was taken into custody on July 14 and booked into the Clark County Detention Center for felony willful disregard of a person’s safety.
No I did not watch the video as I didn't want to see it. That makes more sense.
I think what changes this story, that I wasn't originally aware of is not calling for help or not allowing others to call for help once the man was hurt. And even that, I am not sure about. Are we legally required to call for help for someone? Is there a good Samaritan law like in the Seinfeld episode?
Quote: kewljIs there a good Samaritan law like in the Seinfeld episode?
No. David Cash comes to mind who witnessed his friend murder a 7-year-old girl at then Primadonna casino (now Primm Valley) and did nothing. He was never prosecuted because he broke no law.
Why did you post it then? I can't unwatch it.Quote: kewljNo I did not watch the video as I didn't want to see it. That makes more sense.
Quote: kewljA 28 year old Las Vegas man was arrested yesterday after he paid a homeless man $6 to do a back flip resulting in injury and death to the homeless man. As despicable as this is, I don't see how it is a crime. Seems like a transaction between two consenting adults. What am I missing?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/las-vegas-man-accused-goading-homeless-man-deadly-stunt-arrested-n1233990
A heart, a conscience and a soul for not caring. That's what you're missing.
It's disgusting that it took so long for help to be called. It reminds me when people looked out their windows watching a murder in the street below and wouldn't call the police.
https://www.nytimes.com/1964/03/27/archives/37-who-saw-murder-didnt-call-the-police-apathy-at-stabbing-of.html
Quote: kewljA 28 year old Las Vegas man was arrested yesterday after he paid a homeless man $6 to do a back flip resulting in injury and death to the homeless man. As despicable as this is, I don't see how it is a crime. Seems like a transaction between two consenting adults. What am I missing?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/las-vegas-man-accused-goading-homeless-man-deadly-stunt-arrested-n1233990
It's a question of personal (and societal) responsibility, if I pay a drunk, inadequate homeless person a certain amount to jump of a bridge to their death for my entertainment and the inadequate person goes ahead and do it, because he lacks the means to understand the danger am I as innocent as the Pope?
On the other hand the back flip is usually not as dangerous as jumping off a bridge, but there must be some accountability for being an idiot who will entice vulnerable and inadequate people into dangerous stunts without thinking twice.
It is wilful disregard and most likely is based on his post flip actions.
He just laughs maniacally for ten minutes, at one point telling bystanders NOT to call an ambulance.
It seemed like he didn't care a man just died on account of his enticement of a few dollars.
And that is what the charge is wilful disregard for life.
Yes, anyone, everyone, should call for help, regardless of the previous circumstance that brought about the injury. Suppose you walk around the corner two minutes after the injury occurs without knowing anything about how it happened. You make the call.
How are the other people who "followed orders" and did not make a call any less responsible? Assuming that the bettor is "only" responsible for willful disregard, sounds to me (didn't watch) that he's not the only one who should be charged.
Quote: racquetI tell you not to call for help, you don't do so, and I'm the only one arrested?
Yes, anyone, everyone, should call for help, regardless of the previous circumstance that brought about the injury. Suppose you walk around the corner two minutes after the injury occurs without knowing anything about how it happened. You make the call.
How are the other people who "followed orders" and did not make a call any less responsible? Assuming that the bettor is "only" responsible for willful disregard, sounds to me (didn't watch) that he's not the only one who should be charged.
Questions like yours should be proposed after watching the video.
This is going to go to a jury and trying to guess their thoughts is easier if you watch the evidence.
I showed it to a friend. She immediately said many of the things you did... Until about two minutes into the video.
By the time she finished the video she said convict the guy.
Quote: WizardNo. David Cash comes to mind who witnessed his friend murder a 7-year-old girl at then Primadonna casino (now Primm Valley) and did nothing. He was never prosecuted because he broke no law.
Looking up this case, certain laws were passed as a result that do make it a crime to not report a crime as a witness.
It specifically is for observing crimes directed at minors so would be inapplicable in the OP example but David Cash would be charged with crimes for his exact same actions if perpetrated today
I see a low life of a person taking pleasure in another human being being hurt. As despicable as that is, I don't think that is a crime. And nobody physically "stopped" anyone from calling for help. Someone, I am guessing several people did call for help over the objections of this assh*le.
I mean the young black dude filming and laughing is despicable. It makes you want to walk up and beat the crap out of him, but I don't see a crime.
If I am walking down the street on a snowy winter day (the kind of weather I moved away from), and I see someone slip and fall on the ice and I chuckle, as people tend to do, have I committed a crime?
Quote: kewljOk, I watched the video as several people requested. I still don't see a crime.
I see a low life of a person taking pleasure in another human being being hurt. As despicable as that is, I don't think that is a crime. And nobody physically "stopped" anyone from calling for help. Someone, I am guessing several people did call for help over the objections of this assh*le.
I mean the young black dude filming and laughing is despicable. It makes you want to walk up and beat the crap out of him, but I don't see a crime.
If I am walking down the street on a snowy winter day (the kind of weather I moved away from), and I see someone slip and fall on the ice and I chuckle, as people tend to do, have I committed a crime?
Why would you want to beat the crap out of somebody for doing what you say is legal? Do you have suppressed rage that makes you want to beat random people up or as they say about porn- you'll know something is wrong when you see it?
Quote: billryanWhy would you want to beat the crap out of somebody for doing what you say is legal? Do you have suppressed rage that makes you want to beat random people up or as they say about porn- you'll know something is wrong when you see it?
Does the law really align so perfectly with your moral compass, billryan?
Quote: unJonDoes the law really align so perfectly with your moral compass, billryan?
You have that backwards.
Quote: billryanWhy would you want to beat the crap out of somebody for doing what you say is legal? Do you have suppressed rage that makes you want to beat random people up or as they say about porn- you'll know something is wrong when you see it?
Because there is a difference in what is illegal and what is wrong. I am not defending this guys actions, I just don't see a crime.
Quote: darkozLooking up this case, certain laws were passed as a result that do make it a crime to not report a crime as a witness.
It specifically is for observing crimes directed at minors so would be inapplicable in the OP example but David Cash would be charged with crimes for his exact same actions if perpetrated today
I'm glad to hear some good came of it.
Quote: billryanWhy would you want to beat the crap out of somebody for doing what you say is legal?
Here, I'll put it in terms of blackjack that you and I both understand.
Bob Nersesian and I have had discussions on one of my favorite topics, preferential shuffling in blackjack. I contend it should be illegal. Bob agrees it SHOULD be illegal. BUT it is not illegal. So when some dealer shuffles up on me early, shuffling away my high count, I would like to give them a good slap across the face. If you think THAT is suppressed rage....so be it. :)
Quote: kewljOk, I watched the video as several people requested. I still don't see a crime.
I see a low life of a person taking pleasure in another human being being hurt. As despicable as that is, I don't think that is a crime. And nobody physically "stopped" anyone from calling for help. Someone, I am guessing several people did call for help over the objections of this assh*le.
I mean the young black dude filming and laughing is despicable. It makes you want to walk up and beat the crap out of him, but I don't see a crime.
If I am walking down the street on a snowy winter day (the kind of weather I moved away from), and I see someone slip and fall on the ice and I chuckle, as people tend to do, have I committed a crime?
It's falling under what that cop in the George Floyd incident was charged with.
Not Chauvin. The Asian officer who just stood by and didn't seem to care.
His defense sounds like what you are saying. He didn't touch George Floyd, he didn't even laugh about it, just sat there and did nothing.
Indifference to human life resulting in death!
I do grant that it will be a tough prosecution imo. Though not impossible
Quote: darkozIt's falling under what that cop in the George Floyd incident was charged with.
Not Chauvin. The Asian officer who just stood by and didn't seem to care.
His defense sounds like what you are saying. He didn't touch George Floyd, he didn't even laugh about it, just sat there and did nothing.
Indifference to human life resulting in death!
I do grant that it will be a tough prosecution imo. Though not impossible
Police officers have a sworn duty to protect the public. That's why the officers were charged, but the bystanders were not.
I think this Vegas case gets plead down. I think the man's family has a great case for a wrongful death suit.
Quote: kewljBecause there is a difference in what is illegal and what is wrong. I am not defending this guys actions, I just don't see a crime.
That's just frightening. Thank god
the authorities see one. What's
really frightening is people who
see the world like you do are our
future.
Quote: EvenBobThat's just frightening. Thank god
the authorities see one. What's
really frightening is people who
see the world like you do are our
future.
What's really frightening is the wear and tear on your <Enter> key.
wait.. i thought it was illegal to shuffle early when the count is very favorable to the player??Quote: kewljHere, I'll put it in terms of blackjack that you and I both understand.
Bob Nersesian and I have had discussions on one of my favorite topics, preferential shuffling in blackjack. I contend it should be illegal. Bob agrees it SHOULD be illegal. BUT it is not illegal.
So when some dealer shuffles up on me early, shuffling away my high count, I would like to give them a good slap across the face. If you think THAT is suppressed rage....so be it. :)
wasnt there a thread about this on this site?
I don't know if Good Samaritan laws apply here.. If your action is in good faith, (which I'm sure it was) you can be protected from producing injury while trying to help someone.
Quote: AlanMendelsonWhether you like it or not, it's a law in Nevada.
https://www.shouselaw.com/nv/defense/nrs/202-595-reckless-endangerment/#:~:text=the%20Castle%20doctrine%3F-,NRS%20202.595%20is%20the%20Nevada%20law%20which%20makes%20it%20a,neglect%20does%20not%20result%20...
Asking a drunk guy to run across a highway might be considered reckless endangerment. Asking a guy to jump off a balcony into a pool might be, as well. Filming someone doing a backflip? I'm dubious. I think you'd have to have known the man wasn't capable of doing what you hired him for this to be reckless endangerment. I think there will be another law that's a better fit.
Quote: billryanAsking a drunk guy to run across a highway might be considered reckless endangerment. Asking a guy to jump off a balcony into a pool might be, as well. Filming someone doing a backflip? I'm dubious. I think you'd have to have known the man wasn't capable of doing what you hired him for this to be reckless endangerment. I think there will be another law that's a better fit.
This is the law he was charged under. Go argue with the police and the DA.
Quote: darkoz
I do grant that it will be a tough prosecution imo. Though not impossible
Really? Where I live this is an easily won case for the prosecution. As a citizen (nevermind a cop) you have the LEGAL DUTY to at least try and prevent an injury or death of a person in you vicinity if it doesn't endanger your own life and if the task is well within your abilities. Failing to do so and just standing there and watching is a punishable crime.
Quote: rawtuffReally? Where I live this is an easily won case for the prosecution. As a citizen (nevermind a cop) you have the LEGAL DUTY to at least try and prevent an injury or death of a person in you vicinity if it doesn't endanger your own life and if the task is well within your abilities. Failing to do so and just standing there and watching is a punishable crime.
Defense arguments in my opinion:
The homeless man was 55 (2× the defendant age) and should have known not to do a flip regardless of how much money was offered.
The defendant was not standing alone. In fact a number of people were there and only one person is needed to make the 911 call. Any accusation that the defendant caused the man's death by just standing around means none of the other bystanders had any obligation under the law to make the call.
The victim was moved and lifted in an attempt to stand him up with what most likely is a broken neck. Pretty certain there will be a defense that it was the actions of those good Samaritans that caused the final nail in the coffin.
Coroner's reports are going to be examined like crazy here
While the defense made a long cackling laugh at what he goaded out of the victim that in itself is not murder.
Point of fact, the defense did not lay a hand on the victim (while others did contrary to established protocol for a man with head/neck injury)
I'm just laying on the line what a good defense will most likely make out of the case
Quote: AlanMendelsonThis is the law he was charged under. Go argue with the police and the DA.
He wasn't charged with reckless endangerment. Perhaps you should give them a call.
Quote: billryanHe wasn't charged with reckless endangerment. Perhaps you should give them a call.
The words that he was charged with are in the reckless endangerment law that I cited earlier. I included the exact NRS citation.
If you believe he was charged under a different NRS statute then cite the statute.
Quote it exactly. Copy and paste it so we can all check.
By the way this was the same problem we had on this forum regarding the supposed laws about using players Club cards: so many talked about a "law" but no one, when pressed, could actually find a law.
There is NO LAW in Nevada regarding players Club cards.
But there is a law about endangerment and I cited the NRS number.
Now it's your turn. Put up your law.
https://www.shouselaw.com/nv/defense/nrs/202-595-reckless-endangerment/#:~:text=the%20Castle%20doctrine%3F-,NRS%20202.595%20is%20the%20Nevada%20law%20which%20makes%20it%20a,neglect%20does%20not%20result%20...
Quote: AlanMendelsonThe words that he was charged with are in the reckless endangerment law that I cited earlier. I included the exact NRS citation.
If you believe he was charged under a different NRS statute then cite the statute.
Quote it exactly. Copy and paste it so we can all check.
By the way this was the same problem we had on this forum regarding the supposed laws about using players Club cards: so many talked about a "law" but no one, when pressed, could actually find a law.
There is NO LAW in Nevada regarding players Club cards.
But there is a law about endangerment and I cited the NRS number.
Now it's your turn. Put up your law.
https://www.shouselaw.com/nv/defense/nrs/202-595-reckless-endangerment/#:~:text=the%20Castle%20doctrine%3F-,NRS%20202.595%20is%20the%20Nevada%20law%20which%20makes%20it%20a,neglect%20does%20not%20result%20...
No, those are your words.
And I dont know if there will be a plea deal. What I do know is the NRS law he was charged with.
I'm sure you're not trying to mislead the forum and this was just an error in posting.
Quote: darkoz
The homeless man was 55 (2× the defendant age) and should have known not to do a flip regardless of how much money was offered.
The old guy was drunk and probably
had mental problems, that's why he
was homeless. Did you listen to guy
who made the bet in the video?
He knew the old guy was impaired
and was hoping he did something
bad to himself. He literally laughed
himself silly for 10 min at what
happened. This is no different than
those guys who were sucker punching
old people on the street a few years
ago. This impaired guy was coerced
into doing something potentially
harmful to himself.
Quote: EvenBobThe old guy was drunk and probably
had mental problems, that's why he
was homeless. Did you listen to guy
who made the bet in the video?
He knew the old guy was impaired
and was hoping he did something
bad to himself. He literally laughed
himself silly for 10 min at what
happened. This is no different than
those guys who were sucker punching
old people on the street a few years
ago. This impaired guy was coerced
into doing something potentially
harmful to himself.
So you think physically punching someone on the street is the same as making a wager and that person does a stunt on their own?
Quote: darkozSo you think physically punching someone on the street is the same as making a wager and that person does a stunt on their own?
Why ask this question?
Punching someone on the street is one type of criminal act and enticing a disabled person with a bet and then failing to come to his aid after an obvious injury and he dies is another criminal act.
Quote: AlanMendelsonWhy ask this question?
Punching someone on the street is one type of criminal act and enticing a disabled person with a bet and then failing to come to his aid after an obvious injury and he dies is another criminal act.
I didn't ask you.
I asked evenbob
Who equated the two in his comments
EDIT: See below EB comment.
He thinks they are the same.
Quote: darkozSo you think physically punching someone on the street is the same as making a wager and that person does a stunt on their own?
Not just 'someone', they punched
defenseless old people. And yeah,
bullying some drunk, old, mentally
impaired guy into doing potentially
harmful stunts is the same kind of
irresponsible behavior as sucker
punching old people. Look at the
outcome, the guy died. Real funny.
Quote: darkozI didn't ask you.
I asked evenbob
Who equated the two in his comments
EDIT: See below EB comment.
He thinks they are the same.
You didnt ask me? I dont need to be asked to speak out about what's right and moral.
I hope that POS gets at least 10 years of ass rape in prison. We don't need people like this in society.Quote: EvenBobThe old guy was drunk and probably
had mental problems, that's why he
was homeless. Did you listen to guy
who made the bet in the video?
He knew the old guy was impaired
and was hoping he did something
bad to himself. He literally laughed
himself silly for 10 min at what
happened. This is no different than
those guys who were sucker punching
old people on the street a few years
ago. This impaired guy was coerced
into doing something potentially
harmful to himself.
Quote: AlanMendelsonYou didnt ask me? I dont need to be asked to speak out about what's right and moral.
Alan,
You are taking this way too personal.
I responded to a comment from evenbob.
You asked why I made the comment.
I told you I was asking evenbob a question because I disagreed with his statement. Actually I agree with you and your point. That was the reason I asked evenbob to clarify his position.
Perhaps you have evenbob blocked I don't know but you keep coming down on me like you are only seeing half the conversation.
I even told you to look at evenbobs response to my post and you still ignored it.
I'm not trying to start trouble with you. Don't start with me. Read all the posts
Quote: EvenBobDid you watch the video? They
laughed and laughed for 10
min and wouldn't let anyone
call for help.
Jones was taken into custody on July 14 and booked into the Clark County Detention Center for felony willful disregard of a person’s safety.
Sounds like the appropriate charge -though I had no idea that "willful disregard of a person's safety" has been formalized as a crime/felony.
I don't know the guy and there well may be much more to the story, but as a former youth basketball coach, I find it scary. The writer has been fired from his job and probably won't find work in the industry unless this is decided in his favor.
This seems to only happen when I'm on my Chromebook. Duplicate posts rarely happen when I use my Fire tablets.
Quote: billryanThere are some scary new crimes out there. A comic book writer was charged with "grooming" a few weeks ago. I have no idea what the real story is. He claims he finds young teenagers who are talented and tries to mentor them with their work, but one kid told his parents that he thought the guy was creepy and was trying to get him to have sex. He's not accused of touching the kid, or giving him liquor or corrupting him in any way. It seems like even potential corruption is enough these days.
I don't know the guy and there well may be much more to the story, but as a former youth basketball coach, I find it scary. The writer has been fired from his job and probably won't find work in the industry unless this is decided in his favor.
The only state with a grooming statute that I can find is IL. They describe it as:
"A person commits grooming when he or she knowingly uses a computer on-line service, Internet service, local bulletin board service, or any other device capable of electronic data storage or transmission to seduce, solicit, lure, or entice, or attempt to seduce, solicit, lure, or entice, a child, a child's guardian, or another person believed by the person to be a child or a child's guardian, to commit any sex offense as defined in Section 2 of the Sex Offender Registration Act, to distribute photographs depicting the sex organs of a child, or to otherwise engage in any unlawful sexual conduct with a child or another person believed by the person to be a child."
I'm ok with this law.
