How honest are your casino drawings?
Whatchu think?
I've heard reputable stories saying some machines in a certain casino have not been depositing entries. I'm not sure whose software they use. There can be mistakes and the public will never know when they happen.Quote: BTLWII gotta say, I'm convinced Atrient/ Everi drawing software is not on the square - or can be tweaked to be not on the square. Way too much funny business.
Whatchu think?
Quote: BTLWII gotta say, I'm convinced Atrient/ Everi drawing software is not on the square - or can be tweaked to be not on the square. Way too much funny business.
Whatchu think?
What do you call on the square? A casino can choose the parameters of a drawing. It can be that every person has 1 "ticket". It can also be weighted by points, time on machine, previous play, etc.
I run drawings that are heavily weighted toward table games players. Every active card in a machine gets 1 ticket, while table games players get 1 per 25 points earned. So, if you are a slot player, these specific drawing are not on the square.
ZCore13
Not on the square=Exclude certain players without them ever knowing. Favor certain players who they want to win.Quote: Zcore13What do you call on the square? A casino can choose the parameters of a drawing. It can be that every person has 1 "ticket". It can also be weighted by points, time on machine, previous play, etc.
I run drawings that are heavily weighted toward table games players. Every active card in a machine gets 1 ticket, while table games players get 1 per 25 points earned. So, if you are a slot player, these specific drawing are not on the square.
ZCore13
Also, any points based drawing can be rigged by any table games manager or supervisor (theoretically, at least) anytime. You’d just have to assign the player points that the action would not normally have qualified for.
Quote: AxelWolfNot on the square=Exclude certain players without them ever knowing. Favor certain players who they want to win.
Exactly.
Basically if there's a 10 name drawing, as a winning player it seems like I'm filtered out of many of those available spots.
For example -
Spots 1-3 may only draw from people who lost $25000+ last year and will "give back" all winnings.
Spots 5-6 may be only newish players.
Spots 7--9 may be all ticket holders.
Those are made up filters but the basic idea of how I think they may work.
Quote: BTLWIExactly.
Basically if there's a 10 name drawing, as a winning player it seems like I'm filtered out of many of those available spots.
For example -
Spots 1-3 may only draw from people who lost $25000+ last year and will "give back" all winnings.
Spots 5-6 may be only newish players.
Spots 7--9 may be all ticket holders.
Those are made up filters but the basic idea of how I think they may work.
In Nevada casinos are required to post all of the rules so the players can see the details of the promotion. If the casino won't give you a copy or let you read them contact Nevada Gaming.
Quote: AxelWolfNot on the square=Exclude certain players without them ever knowing. Favor certain players who they want to win.
If they read the rules they know. If it favors people that play more, isn't that the same as a person buying more tickets in a raffle having a better chance? Is a raffle square?
ZCore13
YES, It SHOULD favor people that EARN MORE TICKETS. Please re-read what I said. "Favor certain players WHO THEY WANT TO WIN. I.E. Some high roller/big loser who earned very few tickets.Quote: Zcore13If they read the rules they know. If it favors people that play more, isn't that the same as a person buying more tickets in a raffle having a better chance? Is a raffle square?
ZCore13
see BTLWI's post above. I never met or talked to him regarding any of this type of stuff. It's kind of creepy that he came up with the same thing very close to what I have been thinking has been going on for a long time.
Often times the rules are laid out, but I have yet to see them claim the drawings will favor certain groups/people regardless of the number of entries one has.
Quote: AxelWolfYES, It SHOULD favor people that EARN MORE TICKETS. Please re-read what I said. "Favor certain players WHO THEY WANT TO WIN. I.E. Some high roller/big loser who earned very few tickets.
see BTLWI's post above. I never met or talked to him regarding any of this type of stuff. It's kind of creepy that he came up with the same thing very close to what I have been thinking has been going on for a long time.
Often times the rules are laid out, but I have yet to see them claim the drawings will favor certain groups/people regardless of the number of entries one has.
So you feel that people’s chances of winning should be based simply on their level and volume of play regardless of winning/ losing .. but you think the casinos just favor those who lose?
The most recent drawings ive participated in , the higher tiered members accumulated 3 X more than the lower tiered members. And also won 3X the prize amount, meaning the dollar amount was tripled what ever they won.
Quote: VegasriderNever liked the computerized drawings.i prefer the traditional drop your tixets in the drum. As members have mentioned, the computer program can be programed to do anything. On the other hand, traditional tix can be transferred over to other players. I wish a casino had the capability to print out tixets in your name and then you place them in the drum.
The most recent drawings ive participated in , the higher tiered members accumulated 3 X more than the lower tiered members. And also won 3X the prize amount, meaning the dollar amount was tripled what ever they won.
As one who sets up many casino drawings, printing tickets is very expensive and time consuming. It also causes a lot of consumer bottle necks because people don't want to print their tickets until right before the drawing. We have had lines that were hours long for people to print and get their tickets. They may still be waiting in line at the time of the drawing and not have any tickets actually printed and put in the drum.
As a patron all I want to know is how many tickets that I have in the drawing and how many total tickets are in the drawing.
Quote: DRichAs one who sets up many casino drawings, printing tickets is very expensive and time consuming. It also causes a lot of consumer bottle necks because people don't want to print their tickets until right before the drawing. We have had lines that were hours long for people to print and get their tickets. They may still be waiting in line at the time of the drawing and not have any tickets actually printed and put in the drum.
As a patron all I want to know is how many tickets that I have in the drawing and how many total tickets are in the drawing.
Since when does a casino care about cost, factor it into the promotion or marketing cost. You can always delay or have a period to redeem your tixets to eliminate the lines. Having a visual of the number of tix is somewhat helpful on determining how many tix are live.
For computerized drawings. Wonder if anyone has the right to request how many tix were in the drum?
Quote: VegasriderSince when does a casino care about cost, factor it into the promotion or marketing cost. You can always delay or have a period to redeem your tixets to eliminate the lines. Having a visual of the number of tix is somewhat helpful on determining how many tix are live.
For computerized drawings. Wonder if anyone has the right to request how many tix were in the drum?
Casinos do care about financial cost but more important is the cost of people standing in lines and not playing the games. I have had casinos tell me both how many tickets I was issued and how many are in the drum for electronic drawings.
Quote: Mission146Not even any hot seats or anything?
Funny, they do have hot seat promos but only for the machines. They even have player rewards points multiplier days, 2x, 3x, etc, once again only for playing the machines. At least they have 9/6 VP
Quote: VegasriderFunny, they do have hot seat promos but only for the machines. They even have player rewards points multiplier days, 2x, 3x, etc, once again only for playing the machines. At least they have 9/6 VP
Many places have no interest in rewarding table games players. Most table games departments bring in 15% or less of revenue.
Some smaller casinos (like one I worked at), don't have the software to include table games players in random or hot seat drawings. If they are tracking play with paper, rather than with a screen at the table, they almost positively don't have the capability.
ZCore13
I have no reason to believe that the drawings themselves are rigged.
Quote: BTLWII gotta say, I'm convinced Atrient/ Everi drawing software is not on the square - or can be tweaked to be not on the square. Way too much funny business.
Whatchu think?
link to original post
I'd call it a ticket cost weighting.
Let's say 500 tickets would normally cost the player $200 loss to House Edge.
Player A loses $3000 while getting 500 tickets.
Player B wins $2000 while getting 500 tickets.
Player C loses $200 while getting 500 tickets.
A has way more than 500 tickets, C has 500 tickets, B has less than 500 tickets. But the kiosk shows each of them 500 tickets activated in the drawing.
Just a way for marketing to give back. I go thousands of names without being called nowadays. Still top level VIP with way above avg tickets.
Quote: Vegasrider-snip-
Since when does a casino care about cost [?]
-snip-
link to original post
All the time. Why do you think the industry doesn't like advantage players?
Quote: BTLWIQuote: BTLWII gotta say, I'm convinced Atrient/ Everi drawing software is not on the square - or can be tweaked to be not on the square. Way too much funny business.
Whatchu think?
link to original post
I'd call it a ticket cost weighting.
Let's say 500 tickets would normally cost the player $200 loss to House Edge.
Player A loses $3000 while getting 500 tickets.
Player B wins $2000 while getting 500 tickets.
Player C loses $200 while getting 500 tickets.
A has way more than 500 tickets, C has 500 tickets, B has less than 500 tickets. But the kiosk shows each of them 500 tickets activated in the drawing.
Just a way for marketing to give back. I go thousands of names without being called nowadays. Still top level VIP with way above avg tickets.
link to original post
your not wrong but what are you going to do about it lol
i just need some time and i can show you that what you think is real ... basically i need to find a manual for their kisosks and can show you how its done
they call the "bag of marbles" aka the probabilities to weight things "ducks" instead of marbles
yes as that guy before me has said they can wight the drawings for the loyal customers
im sorry to say but here you go https://www.everi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/MGT-Promo-4.5.5-User-Manual.pdf
just in case i downloaded it if they block access to it eventually so LMK if that happens and well exchange the file later
also its archived just to make sure the person who was suppposed to protect this file knows we mean business
i cant stress how much disadain i have for this industry simply because its too scared to admit it does this type of stuff ... if it were direct and open i would have zero issues about this kind of stuff
now what BTLWI do you quit gambling forever?
Quote: heatmapQuote: BTLWIQuote: BTLWII gotta say, I'm convinced Atrient/ Everi drawing software is not on the square - or can be tweaked to be not on the square. Way too much funny business.
Whatchu think?
link to original post
I'd call it a ticket cost weighting.
Let's say 500 tickets would normally cost the player $200 loss to House Edge.
Player A loses $3000 while getting 500 tickets.
Player B wins $2000 while getting 500 tickets.
Player C loses $200 while getting 500 tickets.
A has way more than 500 tickets, C has 500 tickets, B has less than 500 tickets. But the kiosk shows each of them 500 tickets activated in the drawing.
Just a way for marketing to give back. I go thousands of names without being called nowadays. Still top level VIP with way above avg tickets.
link to original post
your not wrong but what are you going to do about it lol
i just need some time and i can show you that what you think is real ... basically i need to find a manual for their kisosks and can show you how its done
they call the "bag of marbles" aka the probabilities to weight things "ducks" instead of marbles
yes as that guy before me has said they can wight the drawings for the loyal customers
im sorry to say but here you go https://www.everi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/MGT-Promo-4.5.5-User-Manual.pdf
just in case i downloaded it if they block access to it eventually so LMK if that happens and well exchange the file later
also its archived just to make sure the person who was suppposed to protect this file knows we mean business
i cant stress how much disadain i have for this industry simply because its too scared to admit it does this type of stuff ... if it were direct and open i would have zero issues about this kind of stuff
now what BTLWI do you quit gambling forever?
link to original post
Good stuff. I went through the manual and they can actually filter out and select players based on age, and sex. Proved the drawings can be rigged if the casinos want them to be. Why not? No one is watching anyway. The gaming commissions are basically rubber stamps on whatever the casinos do. The only case I heard of them intervening in a rigged drawing was the Venetian.
This is why no one should ever feel guilty AP’ing casinos and taking every dime you can (legally). Screw them.
They also gave the two highest tier levels a greater chance of winning by having an exclusive drawing for them Saturday night to gain entry into the final round on Sunday night. On Sunday night they had a drawing for everyone including the two highest tier levels. They called 5 people every half hour on each night, those five people then each picked one of five envelopes, starting with the first person called choosing first and the last person receiving whatever one was left over. Everyone opened their envelopes at the same time, 4 people received free play and one person received a lower amount of free play and an entry into the final drawing. The final drawing was 15 people with 15 envelopes.
My wife was the very last person called on Sunday night, so of the 5 people that were called she got the last envelope after everyone else had picked, in the final drawing she was also the last person and got the final envelope that was left after everyone else had picked and she won the car.
Seemed like a fair way to do it to me, of course we won, so it must have been fair!
Quote: HunterhillCasinos definitely block out people. Our 3 person group won 9 cars in out of 36 drawings after that we never got called anymore even though we had a substantial number of entries. That would be ok if they tell you that you’re blocked. It’s not really fair that they encourage you to earn a lot of entries when you have no chance to win.
link to original post
Interesting, which casino?
I've always wondered if the drawings are fair or not, but between me winning (Casino definitely has no incentive to cheat and hand me the prize), and simply observing how some people are betting obscene amounts, I've concluded that the drawings are in fact "fair".
Fair as in: People get entries. People at higher tier and/or betting higher amounts of money or on the right days have a higher chance of winning.
Skewed is probably a better term.
And that seems fair for the most part.
The fact that there are 100x+ multiplier days definitely skews it. If you don't/can't play on those days you're essentially screwed. If you're a highroller and you (happen to be) betting on those days, you're already way ahead of everyone else. Personally I see it as an opportunity. I'm no high roller in the big scheme of things, but if I can time my visits to the high multiplier days for drawings with significant potential, that still brings me ahead of the average gamblers AND ahead of high rollers who do not "optimize" the days they gamble.
But for Joe Average? Yeah for all intents and purposes, he probably has a higher chance of winning the Powerball of getting 13 0's in a row on the roulette table. Yet it still hapens, or so I hear.
Top card level every year, down to Monday and Tuesday only for hotel, lol.
Quote: heatmapQuote: BTLWIQuote: BTLWII gotta say, I'm convinced Atrient/ Everi drawing software is not on the square - or can be tweaked to be not on the square. Way too much funny business.
Whatchu think?
link to original post
I'd call it a ticket cost weighting.
Let's say 500 tickets would normally cost the player $200 loss to House Edge.
Player A loses $3000 while getting 500 tickets.
Player B wins $2000 while getting 500 tickets.
Player C loses $200 while getting 500 tickets.
A has way more than 500 tickets, C has 500 tickets, B has less than 500 tickets. But the kiosk shows each of them 500 tickets activated in the drawing.
Just a way for marketing to give back. I go thousands of names without being called nowadays. Still top level VIP with way above avg tickets.
link to original post
your not wrong but what are you going to do about it lol
i just need some time and i can show you that what you think is real ... basically i need to find a manual for their kisosks and can show you how its done
they call the "bag of marbles" aka the probabilities to weight things "ducks" instead of marbles
yes as that guy before me has said they can wight the drawings for the loyal customers
im sorry to say but here you go https://www.everi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/MGT-Promo-4.5.5-User-Manual.pdf
just in case i downloaded it if they block access to it eventually so LMK if that happens and well exchange the file later
also its archived just to make sure the person who was suppposed to protect this file knows we mean business
i cant stress how much disadain i have for this industry simply because its too scared to admit it does this type of stuff ... if it were direct and open i would have zero issues about this kind of stuff
now what BTLWI do you quit gambling forever?
link to original post
Thank you, I downloaded the PDF.
A)
MGT Player Activity Evaluation Fields Dictionary
Slot Win
Slot EP (Theo)
B)
Configure the Sub Promo for a Master Bucket Promotion
d. Another example: if ADT is being used for the evaluation, a configured amount of $100 would
mean the player would need to have at least $99.99 (< 100) to qualify.
Part B shows they have the ability to configure based items in part A the "MGT Player Activity Evaluation Fields Dictionary" That's the smoking gun I was really looking for.
Quote: BTLWIQuote: heatmapQuote: BTLWIQuote: BTLWII gotta say, I'm convinced Atrient/ Everi drawing software is not on the square - or can be tweaked to be not on the square. Way too much funny business.
Whatchu think?
link to original post
I'd call it a ticket cost weighting.
Let's say 500 tickets would normally cost the player $200 loss to House Edge.
Player A loses $3000 while getting 500 tickets.
Player B wins $2000 while getting 500 tickets.
Player C loses $200 while getting 500 tickets.
A has way more than 500 tickets, C has 500 tickets, B has less than 500 tickets. But the kiosk shows each of them 500 tickets activated in the drawing.
Just a way for marketing to give back. I go thousands of names without being called nowadays. Still top level VIP with way above avg tickets.
link to original post
your not wrong but what are you going to do about it lol
i just need some time and i can show you that what you think is real ... basically i need to find a manual for their kisosks and can show you how its done
they call the "bag of marbles" aka the probabilities to weight things "ducks" instead of marbles
yes as that guy before me has said they can wight the drawings for the loyal customers
im sorry to say but here you go https://www.everi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/MGT-Promo-4.5.5-User-Manual.pdf
just in case i downloaded it if they block access to it eventually so LMK if that happens and well exchange the file later
also its archived just to make sure the person who was suppposed to protect this file knows we mean business
i cant stress how much disadain i have for this industry simply because its too scared to admit it does this type of stuff ... if it were direct and open i would have zero issues about this kind of stuff
now what BTLWI do you quit gambling forever?
link to original post
Thank you, I downloaded the PDF.
A)
MGT Player Activity Evaluation Fields Dictionary
Slot Win
Slot EP (Theo)
B)
Configure the Sub Promo for a Master Bucket Promotion
d. Another example: if ADT is being used for the evaluation, a configured amount of $100 would
mean the player would need to have at least $99.99 (< 100) to qualify.
Part B shows they have the ability to configure based items in part A the "MGT Player Activity Evaluation Fields Dictionary" That's the smoking gun I was really looking for.
link to original post
glad things are going well
hope i settled some long sought out worries for you and you can use this to your advantage
Quote: DRichQuote: HunterhillCasinos definitely block out people. Our 3 person group won 9 cars in out of 36 drawings after that we never got called anymore even though we had a substantial number of entries. That would be ok if they tell you that you’re blocked. It’s not really fair that they encourage you to earn a lot of entries when you have no chance to win.
link to original post
Interesting, which casino?
link to original post
I don’t really want to say but it was east coast
Quote: HunterhillQuote: DRichQuote: HunterhillCasinos definitely block out people. Our 3 person group won 9 cars in out of 36 drawings after that we never got called anymore even though we had a substantial number of entries. That would be ok if they tell you that you’re blocked. It’s not really fair that they encourage you to earn a lot of entries when you have no chance to win.
link to original post
Interesting, which casino?
link to original post
I don’t really want to say but it was east coast
link to original post
there is a way to block specific players in the manual i posted
Quote: HunterhillQuote: DRichQuote: HunterhillCasinos definitely block out people. Our 3 person group won 9 cars in out of 36 drawings after that we never got called anymore even though we had a substantial number of entries. That would be ok if they tell you that you’re blocked. It’s not really fair that they encourage you to earn a lot of entries when you have no chance to win.
link to original post
Interesting, which casino?
link to original post
I don’t really want to say but it was east coast
link to original post
I understand if it is still an active play I wouldn't be specific either.
