Joined: Nov 15, 2009
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November 15th, 2009 at 3:24:21 PM permalink
Thanks to the Wizard for his main Wizard of Odds site and for these forums! Here's some information I'd like to contribute to this board. Please note that this is just based on personal experience. YMMV.

Luxor: Avg. bet 200-250 x 4 hrs/night = RFB, spa + massage, limo.
Mandalay Bay: Avg. bet 225-250 x 4 hrs/night = RFB, spa + massage, limo.
Venetian: Avg. bet 475 x 3.625 hrs/night = Upgraded/next size up room, 300 off F/B, limo, no spa.
Palazzo: Avg. bet 525 x 3.5 hrs/night = RFB, limo, no spa.
Palazzo (again): Avg. bet 400 x 2 hrs/night = RFB, limo, no spa.

Some notes:
- I've heard strip casinos are looking for 250 avg. bet x 4 hrs/night for RFB in general.
- My second trip to the Palazzo was severely underrated in terms of time, but I'm still receiving tier 4 offers (versus the tier 3 offers after the Venetian trip).
- Free odds in craps are indeed counted at Venetian/Palazzo. However, you're rated differently and require a higher avg. bet or more hours played (I've heard avg. bet of 350 x 4 hrs/night).
- MGM/Mirage properties have a mysterious tiering system where they tier you from 0-10, and have a color assigned. One host stated that I was a "7, green, that's good" on my Luxor trips.
- Venetian/Palazzo comps are literally calculated based on game played, time played, and average bet, where your theoretical loss based on house edge for each game type is used. Unless you have an established relationship with a host, expect no movement from what is calculated.
- That said, an established relationship with a casino and/or host can net you superior service and comps.
- Tipping while you play can boost your rating significantly. I play craps with pass line and constant come bets with full odds with green chips. At MGM/Mirage properties, where odds are not counted, the most I could have out on the table is 200 (25 for pass, come, and all six points). My average bet, of course, should be much lower than this, but I've been rated much higher. I've had length of play extended at the baccarat tables as well.
- If you've got a Club Grazie account, go online. Under your offers, you'll see that the URLs of all offers have a four-letter code and a two-digit number. Example: CPMU33. This is the code marketing will ask for if you're coming in under an offer. You can punch in different numbers for fun, to see what other tiers get (eg: CPMU22, CPMU11, etc.). No, you can't use those codes-- marketing knows exactly what you have.
- At the MGM/Mirage and Venetian/Palazzo properties, if you come in under an offer you are under no obligation to pay. That is: if theoretically you gamble zero, you will not have to pay for your room. However, you future offers may be affected. This was confirmed with marketing staff. But don't take my word for it: confirm, if that's what you plan to do.
- Always, ALWAYS, show your chips for counting and confirm your win/loss, when you leave the table. I've had instances where the casino had not recorded significant losses. Politely ask what your rating is for avg. bet and time, and politely make any corrections. You will not be able to make any corrections when the next day cycle begins. Any tax responsibility ultimately relies on you and your records.
- As a first-time visitor to Venetian/Palazzo, I opened a 10k marker limit and was comped rooms up front. I was also given a Gold Grazie card when I arrived.

Amusing baccarat notes:
- Palazzo baccarat mins are 300. Wynn/Encore, Mandalay Bay are 100. I'm not sure why Palazzo is this way.
- Those other symbols on smaller screens everyone's wondering about? Besides the obvious banker/player win screen, the other screens with the smaller pips and slashes are the results of other predictive methods. Look for a part of the screen showing those symbols together to see what the computer is predicting based on those methods. I have no idea what methods it's using.
- Ask for what you want at the table. I've seen players ask for multiple packs of cigarettes, food, blankets, etc., and then ask the dealer to tip the waiter. The floor manager obliged.
- At the properties I've stayed at, baccarat is rated by time, not by the shoe.

Finally: DON'T CHASE COMPS. It is not worth it. Don't fall into the trap of feeling pressured to play for a certain length of time or for certain avg. bets. Do what you do and play how you play. Enjoy your trip. It will cushion the losses and make any forthcoming comps icing on the cake when you win.

I wanna give a shout out to some people who've given a lot of good advice and information: baccarat_king, QuietLion and kingalien at the Flyertalk forums, and BeeeJay who seems to be everywhere. ;)

Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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November 15th, 2009 at 5:22:55 PM permalink
This is some great stuff. I would encourage you to make an individual post under each casino you mention, reporting what you know. A major thrust of this site is supposed to advising on how generous each casino is with comps.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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November 16th, 2009 at 1:27:18 AM permalink
RFB = ?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
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November 16th, 2009 at 1:45:56 AM permalink
RFB = Room, Food, and Beverage(?). You can have RFL, which is Room plus some food/beverage credit. There's also RFBD, which a host had used, but I never got clarification for what the "D" stood for.

Thanks, Wizard. I'll try putting in my experience with the various casinos under their forums. Time's short, new work week!
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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November 16th, 2009 at 10:36:16 AM permalink
A few years ago I was playing at a table in NYNY. There was a woman sitting next to me who was inquiring about getting comps. Apparently she already had some room nights comped and was wondering if she could get more. She wasn't a high roller from what I could tell. Anyway a female host (not a pitboss) ended up coming over to the table and talking with her. During the brief conversation the host said they comp "10% of actual or a percentage of theoretical". I've never heard an employee actually cite a percentage figure before. When she was done talking with the comp woman I asked the host what percentage of theoretical they comp. She said she couldn't tell me that.
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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November 21st, 2009 at 5:40:37 AM permalink
Quote: marksolberg

During the brief conversation the host said they comp "10% of actual or a percentage of theoretical". I've never heard an employee actually cite a percentage figure before. When she was done talking with the comp woman I asked the host what percentage of theoretical they comp. She said she couldn't tell me that.

No, they are always unlikely to commit themselves, particularly when they can be overheard. Remember that although comps are subject to policies and computer imposed limitations they are indeed flexible. The host may not have any authority to over-ride the computer but always somebody can.

One way of measuring a casino's generosity is to compute your theoretical value to them and see what percentage they award you. The trouble is that such a one-shot calculation is itself highly variable. There are good and bad hosts. The hosts have good and bad days too. If you've been noticed in the casino for "doing the Lord's work" (ie, tipping) you are likely to get treated a wee bit better than someone who is stingy. If you already have a history of multiple visits it is probably different than if it is your first visit.

Also remember that there are HardComps and SoftComps. SoftComps are easier to get because it is a dollar amount for the accountants. If a casino comps your hotel room, the hotel accountants will charge the casino for that room at the casino rate. They will not charge the casino at the commercial rate you would otherwise be billed. So the amount of the actual comp dollars expended in your getting a free room is less than the amount you've actually saved. Since the "casino rate" for a room varies by day of the week, you can see why its so much easier to get a Monday thru Thursday comp than a Friday or Saturday Comp. Its the same thing with a "free" meal, the casino might comp you to a buffet but it doesn't cost the casino the price of that buffet. Accounting entries may be made for the price of the buffet but the only thing the casin is really giving away is what the food cost them. The lost revenue at the buffet is usually more than made up by your losses in the casino.

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