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darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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January 13th, 2020 at 12:27:47 PM permalink
I always intended to post this thread as a follow up to the main NY AP thread so this is not me trying to weaponize against the forum.

Furthermore this AP move is dead

DEAD, DEAD, DEAD!!!

Did I Mention it is dead?

That said, this is going to castigate those high-moral AP's on here more than I originally intended. So here goes.

This is a Video Blackjack move first brought to the forums attention here. (Its a 3 page thread so quick reading. AND I SUGGEST YOU READ IT BEFORE MOVING ON)

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/blackjack/27612-video-blackjack-insurance-odds-and-possible-ev/#post565102

The first thing that is obvious is a brand new forum member had come seeking advice on a perceived loophole at VBJ which was specific to a location on the East Coast. They explicitly state that they recognize there may be some value here and dont want to give away too much info as it could be stolen from him and exploited by someone else.

If there were any morals from the AP's on WOV, that claim they like to protect the interests of fellow APs and make certain food is not taken from their mouths...

Hmmm, then why is there this call on the 2nd page?

Quote: RS

Can an admin modify each post in this thread that would reveal information about this play? So that if this is even a thing, it can be exploited by those who've read this (as opposed to no one being able to exploit it once the programming is fixed).



Does that sound like the high morals and ethics of APs not wanting to take food out of another APs mouth (it should be noted that from that point on the OP realized just who they were dealing with and the extent of his mistake because he disappeared completely from this forum).

Perhaps more shocking is that this request to protect an AP move so it could be RAPED AND PILLAGED by the AP members here... was honored.

The OP was "edited by an unnamed administrator" 2 days into the thread so that all the pertinent info was eliminated.

Further evidence? Just the 2nd post alone makes a reference to verbiage not described anywhere (after editing) to the OP.

It should come as no surprise who that Admin was and anyway she was pretty open about it

Quote: beachbumbabs

If everyone who said something gives permission, I will do the edits. Preferably send a pm with what.you want edited using quotes.



IS THIS THE MORALS AND ETHICS THE AP'S ARE CLAIMING? THAT WHEN THEY SPY A FELLOW AP's DISCOVERY THEIR INTENT IS TO STEAL IT, RAPE AND PILLAGE IT?????

For those of you who have claimed these same AP's have helped you with info thru the years, that they are the reason you come here, I am telling you their help to you has only been because your questions were not valuable to begin with (no slight to you) Had you found a really valuable play, is that thread result the way you would have preferred to be treated?

Had you asked advice of the AP's on here with anything of value, it would have been HIDDEN, then RAPED and PILLAGED!!!

So, where do I fit in? This wasnt my play. However this was about a year after a few APs here had figured out enough of my NY AP move to guess from the East Coast comment that the two might be related. As a result I received reachouts from 2 APs asking me to investigate and confirm their suspicions were true so that upon confirmation they could buy the first available tickets to NYC on their RAPE and PILLAGE OTHER PEOPLE'S DISCOVERED AP PLAY program

Rigondeaux likes to use his magic and magician analogy so YEAH, LETS DO THAT

A fledgling magician lets say who does magic shows at his college thinks he has a great act and seeks advice if its something he can profit from. He contacts David Copperfield who recognizes this is a major new act...

calls Penn and Teller who he knows is currently performing in NYC and asks them to go observe the act, confirm it works the way he thinks, (because as a professional he has enough clues to deconstruct the move) and upon confirmation Mr. Copperfield intends to use the move in his own act so he can put more food on his table at the expense of this fledgling.

Mr. Copperfield even goes so far as to contact the Dean of the College who he knows and ask that all adverts describing this magic act be removed so no one knows about it AND such actions are indeed undertaken.

THESE ARE THE ACTIONS OF MORAL AND ETHICAL HIGHGROUND PEOPLE???????

THE MOVE

Before I discuss my investigation at the behest of APs on this forum let me confirm it was indeed in NYC and related to the NY AP Move.

It involved holding the Insurance button down such that if the dealer had a ten in the hole you were paid like normal however any other card you received your money back.

There was some miscommunication between IBEATYOURACES and the OP. IBYA asked 2 questions but received only one answer. If you reread that it becomes clear the OP was answering only the first question (you get your wager back if no blackjack) AND NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION ABOUT GETTING BACK THE ORIGINAL BASE BET WAGER).

That simply didn't happen. With dealer blackjack payouts were like normal

But when Dealer did not have BJ, you could remove your bet.

You could determine if Dealer had BJ by the type of video animation that was cued prior to you having to finish making your insurance decisions so you could pull the losing wager back after being alerted to the games results

In other words this was pure and simple a form of digital pastposting.

It probably wasn't illegal as the machine allowed it but traditionally speaking pastposting is an illegal maneuver(not that the APs here seemed all that concerned about performing pastposting).

OPERATION

The base bet wager would finish its countdown. The VBJ table knew the outcome of all wagers (except whether a patron was going to accept insurance) so those outcomes were spirited off on its 2.5 second journey to the central server in Albany.

The Insurance wager was a yes/no prompt so if you held down YES without pulling your finger off, the wager was not recognized. Upon the base bets return from Albany, the animation that clued in the player started, prior to Insurance being closed.

If you recognized Dealer had Blackjack you removed your finger (the OP described it backwards. It was the finger removal that triggered the wager so you wanted Insurance recognized if Dealer had Blackjack)

If it was clear Dealer did not have Blackjack then you continued to hold the button. The wager would not be recognized and yiu received your Insurance wager back.

You did not also get back your initial basebet as that info had already been determined and sent off to the central server. Dealer had Blackjack and player lost (or tied if they also had Blackjack) just like normal.

THE INVESTIGATION

Within 2 days I was passing thru a NYC racino anyway so I went to check it out.

I waited for the first Insurance opportunity and did the move, per the OP instructions. What happened was strange. The machine locked up!.

All buttons became unresponsive thru the next dealer hand! Then it unfroze.

Not long enough for me to get a slot mechanic but long enough Nonetheless. Coincidence?

I waited again for an opportunity and had the same result.

On the third Insurance opportunity I decided to do a control wager and simply pushed the yes button, immediately releasing and accepting the wager. Everything went fine, there was no lockup.

On the 4th Insurance opportunity, and this time attempting the maneuver, once again the machine locked up... AND THEN THE SURREAL OCCURRED

The player seated next to me and a complete stranger says, "Thats dont work no more!"

I tried playing off ignorance but he chuckled and said "You trying to get your Insurance wager back if you was gonna lose. Everybody in this casino knew about that. We killed it for about a month but 2 days ago, it no longer worked. It just locks now."

CONCLUSION

That guy was definitely a Ploppie (recognizing the advantage was gone he continued playing anyway. The game was what was important to him, not necessarily winning with an edge.)

The odds of me just happening into the right casino at the right time and sitting next to the right player are astronomical unless as he claimed the whole casino probably was aware of the move and had killed it.

The solution apparently was to lock up any one table who tried to perform the move so that the winning or losing info could be sent with the next information packet to the central server (the next dealt hand that is) hence the table lockup until the next hand was completed.

So DEAD MOVE, YA HEAR, DEAD MOVE!

Ya heard it here. Darkoz keeps it real!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
randomperson
randomperson
Joined: Dec 21, 2012
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Thanks for this post from:
ForagerRSRigondeauxrdw4potus
January 13th, 2020 at 12:45:17 PM permalink
This isnít a dead play, and itís not NY specific.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 108
  • Posts: 6829
January 13th, 2020 at 1:15:43 PM permalink
Quote: randomperson

This isnít a dead play, and itís not NY specific.



It'll be dead soon.....
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 232
  • Posts: 6774
January 13th, 2020 at 1:23:26 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

It'll be dead soon.....



Its dead already

If it wasn't dead, he would have kept quiet. Who is going to go looking to fix a dead move.

He would not openly state it was being hit other places if it was true
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
randomperson
randomperson
Joined: Dec 21, 2012
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 161
January 13th, 2020 at 1:23:39 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

It'll be dead soon.....



Definitely on the last legs already, but it is solved at the casino level so each casino has to patch their machines.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 232
  • Posts: 6774
January 13th, 2020 at 1:24:51 PM permalink
Quote: randomperson

Definitely on the last legs already, but it is solved at the casino level so each casino has to patch their machines.



Ok that I can buy possibly
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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Thanks for this post from:
RSRigondeauxcharliepatrick
January 13th, 2020 at 1:41:46 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I always intended to post this thread as a follow up to the main NY AP thread so this is not me trying to weaponize against the forum.

Furthermore this AP move is dead

DEAD, DEAD, DEAD!!!

Did I Mention it is dead?

That said, this is going to castigate those high-moral AP's on here more than I originally intended. So here goes.

This is a Video Blackjack move first brought to the forums attention here. (Its a 3 page thread so quick reading. AND I SUGGEST YOU READ IT BEFORE MOVING ON)

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/blackjack/27612-video-blackjack-insurance-odds-and-possible-ev/#post565102

The first thing that is obvious is a brand new forum member had come seeking advice on a perceived loophole at VBJ which was specific to a location on the East Coast. They explicitly state that they recognize there may be some value here and dont want to give away too much info as it could be stolen from him and exploited by someone else.

If there were any morals from the AP's on WOV, that claim they like to protect the interests of fellow APs and make certain food is not taken from their mouths...

Hmmm, then why is there this call on the 2nd page?



Does that sound like the high morals and ethics of APs not wanting to take food out of another APs mouth (it should be noted that from that point on the OP realized just who they were dealing with and the extent of his mistake because he disappeared completely from this forum).

Perhaps more shocking is that this request to protect an AP move so it could be RAPED AND PILLAGED by the AP members here... was honored.

The OP was "edited by an unnamed administrator" 2 days into the thread so that all the pertinent info was eliminated.

Further evidence? Just the 2nd post alone makes a reference to verbiage not described anywhere (after editing) to the OP.

It should come as no surprise who that Admin was and anyway she was pretty open about it



IS THIS THE MORALS AND ETHICS THE AP'S ARE CLAIMING? THAT WHEN THEY SPY A FELLOW AP's DISCOVERY THEIR INTENT IS TO STEAL IT, RAPE AND PILLAGE IT?????

For those of you who have claimed these same AP's have helped you with info thru the years, that they are the reason you come here, I am telling you their help to you has only been because your questions were not valuable to begin with (no slight to you) Had you found a really valuable play, is that thread result the way you would have preferred to be treated?

Had you asked advice of the AP's on here with anything of value, it would have been HIDDEN, then RAPED and PILLAGED!!!

So, where do I fit in? This wasnt my play. However this was about a year after a few APs here had figured out enough of my NY AP move to guess from the East Coast comment that the two might be related. As a result I received reachouts from 2 APs asking me to investigate and confirm their suspicions were true so that upon confirmation they could buy the first available tickets to NYC on their RAPE and PILLAGE OTHER PEOPLE'S DISCOVERED AP PLAY program

Rigondeaux likes to use his magic and magician analogy so YEAH, LETS DO THAT

A fledgling magician lets say who does magic shows at his college thinks he has a great act and seeks advice if its something he can profit from. He contacts David Copperfield who recognizes this is a major new act...

calls Penn and Teller who he knows is currently performing in NYC and asks them to go observe the act, confirm it works the way he thinks, (because as a professional he has enough clues to deconstruct the move) and upon confirmation Mr. Copperfield intends to use the move in his own act so he can put more food on his table at the expense of this fledgling.

Mr. Copperfield even goes so far as to contact the Dean of the College who he knows and ask that all adverts describing this magic act be removed so no one knows about it AND such actions are indeed undertaken.

THESE ARE THE ACTIONS OF MORAL AND ETHICAL HIGHGROUND PEOPLE???????

THE MOVE

Before I discuss my investigation at the behest of APs on this forum let me confirm it was indeed in NYC and related to the NY AP Move.

It involved holding the Insurance button down such that if the dealer had a ten in the hole you were paid like normal however any other card you received your money back.

There was some miscommunication between IBEATYOURACES and the OP. IBYA asked 2 questions but received only one answer. If you reread that it becomes clear the OP was answering only the first question (you get your wager back if no blackjack) AND NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION ABOUT GETTING BACK THE ORIGINAL BASE BET WAGER).

That simply didn't happen. With dealer blackjack payouts were like normal

But when Dealer did not have BJ, you could remove your bet.

You could determine if Dealer had BJ by the type of video animation that was cued prior to you having to finish making your insurance decisions so you could pull the losing wager back after being alerted to the games results

In other words this was pure and simple a form of digital pastposting.

It probably wasn't illegal as the machine allowed it but traditionally speaking pastposting is an illegal maneuver(not that the APs here seemed all that concerned about performing pastposting).

OPERATION

The base bet wager would finish its countdown. The VBJ table knew the outcome of all wagers (except whether a patron was going to accept insurance) so those outcomes were spirited off on its 2.5 second journey to the central server in Albany.

The Insurance wager was a yes/no prompt so if you held down YES without pulling your finger off, the wager was not recognized. Upon the base bets return from Albany, the animation that clued in the player started, prior to Insurance being closed.

If you recognized Dealer had Blackjack you removed your finger (the OP described it backwards. It was the finger removal that triggered the wager so you wanted Insurance recognized if Dealer had Blackjack)

If it was clear Dealer did not have Blackjack then you continued to hold the button. The wager would not be recognized and yiu received your Insurance wager back.

You did not also get back your initial basebet as that info had already been determined and sent off to the central server. Dealer had Blackjack and player lost (or tied if they also had Blackjack) just like normal.

THE INVESTIGATION

Within 2 days I was passing thru a NYC racino anyway so I went to check it out.

I waited for the first Insurance opportunity and did the move, per the OP instructions. What happened was strange. The machine locked up!.

All buttons became unresponsive thru the next dealer hand! Then it unfroze.

Not long enough for me to get a slot mechanic but long enough Nonetheless. Coincidence?

I waited again for an opportunity and had the same result.

On the third Insurance opportunity I decided to do a control wager and simply pushed the yes button, immediately releasing and accepting the wager. Everything went fine, there was no lockup.

On the 4th Insurance opportunity, and this time attempting the maneuver, once again the machine locked up... AND THEN THE SURREAL OCCURRED

The player seated next to me and a complete stranger says, "Thats dont work no more!"

I tried playing off ignorance but he chuckled and said "You trying to get your Insurance wager back if you was gonna lose. Everybody in this casino knew about that. We killed it for about a month but 2 days ago, it no longer worked. It just locks now."

CONCLUSION

That guy was definitely a Ploppie (recognizing the advantage was gone he continued playing anyway. The game was what was important to him, not necessarily winning with an edge.)

The odds of me just happening into the right casino at the right time and sitting next to the right player are astronomical unless as he claimed the whole casino probably was aware of the move and had killed it.

The solution apparently was to lock up any one table who tried to perform the move so that the winning or losing info could be sent with the next information packet to the central server (the next dealt hand that is) hence the table lockup until the next hand was completed.

So DEAD MOVE, YA HEAR, DEAD MOVE!

Ya heard it here. Darkoz keeps it real!



I almost never come back on someone who insults me personally, but you're exceptional. /sarcasm.

I have NEVER edited a post for acceptable content without the OPs request or permission. NEVER. This is in accordance with the Wizard's respect for free speech and how he wants the board run.

I have redacted obscenities. I have redacted spam links. I have removed spammer posts. And I have removed sock posts. I have removed doxxing information. This is all directly required by the rules of this board and the operating procedures of the Wizard. Those are the limits of my censorship and my job. And that's how I have done it, including the situation you detail above.

I am completely offended by your attitude, your intent, and your accusations. I have suspended your account. I will be consulting with the other mods on whether you are to return.

WoV is NOT here for the purpose to which you are putting it. We are not going to host your petty war on other APs, your exposing plays in a vindictive attack on other members, or the behind-the-scenes manipulation that seems to be coming from you.

I haven't read beyond this post, so I may add to this at some point. But that's where it stands as of this post.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 423
  • Posts: 24149
January 13th, 2020 at 2:22:58 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs



I am completely offended by your attitude, your intent, and your accusations. I have suspended your account. I will be consulting with the other mods on whether you are to return.



+1 for the side of justice..
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
FTB
FTB
Joined: Jan 5, 2019
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Thanks for this post from:
Zcore13
January 13th, 2020 at 2:30:25 PM permalink
I am not choosing sides. Not that my opinion is worth anything here anyway. But I gotta ask...

You are on record with not supporting what OP has posted recently.

Shackleford is on record with support for OP's ability/freedom to post it as long as forum rules are not broken.

So why did you suspend OP if Shackleford is likely to reverse it?
michael99000
michael99000
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2106
January 13th, 2020 at 2:36:09 PM permalink
Quote: FTB

I am not choosing sides. Not that my opinion is worth anything here anyway. But I gotta ask...

You are on record with not supporting what OP has posted recently.

Shackleford is on record with support for OP's ability/freedom to post it as long as forum rules are not broken.

So why did you suspend OP if Shackleford is likely to reverse it?



I believe she feels she was personally insulted within the original post. I donít think the suspension was related to the AP play reveal.

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