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Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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January 12th, 2020 at 10:16:24 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

Great writeup, and some good points I hadn't thought of. Advantage Play can be a profession, but it's more likely to be a hobby. Getting signup bonuses, using coupons, et cetera. There are people who earn $100,000 per year using hi-lo in blackjack. And anyone who visits a casino once every few months can use the same thing to earn $1,000 per year. It can also be an interest, rather than an activity. There are very few professional football players, there are millions of football fans. Millions of people read Bringing Down the House and saw the movie without become an Advantage Player.

Pretty much anything we do in life can be a competition (like eating chicken nuggets). But we get to decide if we are going to compete against others, or with others.



Thanks for the compliment! I agree with that entire post.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
rawtuff
rawtuff
Joined: Mar 15, 2013
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 222
Thanks for this post from:
Foragermichael99000Mission146AcesAndEightsdarkozGandlergordonm888
January 21st, 2020 at 11:00:54 AM permalink
Dafook is wrong with this forum lately? Closing threads about AP plays?
Imposing limits on starting new threads because of posting about gambling?

What's this? I struggle to find words here.

Something's very wrong with the perspective here.
Mendoza
Mendoza
Joined: Nov 29, 2019
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January 21st, 2020 at 5:41:10 PM permalink
the people they fraid

That is all

Vivir con miedo es como vivir a medias
michael99000
michael99000
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2112
January 21st, 2020 at 6:41:50 PM permalink
Quote: rawtuff

Dafook is wrong with this forum lately? Closing threads about AP plays?
Imposing limits on starting new threads because of posting about gambling?

What's this? I struggle to find words here.

Something's very wrong with the perspective here.



We were told no political discussions , keep it to gambling related topics.

Now itís , letís have gambling discussions, but not about strategic methods to beat the casino.

Pretty soon weíll only be allowed to share our favorite roullete numbers.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 272
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Thanks for this post from:
AcesAndEights
January 21st, 2020 at 6:53:18 PM permalink
A very vocal minority of members rumbled loudly.

I appreciate the opposite rumblings now that the vocal minority is gone.

As the AP community proudly attests to, they make up approximately 1 percent of the gambling population (probably less than that)

It is reasonable to assume they made up less than 1 percent of the forum members.

15 people vocally did their mass Exodus thru posting in Rigondeaux leave WOV thread

15 out of 10,000 members sounds about right

I do notice the rest of the forum posts the last 2 weeks are from more and more diverse members. Usually in a situation like this, the horror turns into the best thing to happen
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 115
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January 22nd, 2020 at 7:37:43 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

A very vocal minority of members rumbled loudly.

I appreciate the opposite rumblings now that the vocal minority is gone.

As the AP community proudly attests to, they make up approximately 1 percent of the gambling population (probably less than that)

It is reasonable to assume they made up less than 1 percent of the forum members.

15 people vocally did their mass Exodus thru posting in Rigondeaux leave WOV thread

15 out of 10,000 members sounds about right

I do notice the rest of the forum posts the last 2 weeks are from more and more diverse members. Usually in a situation like this, the horror turns into the best thing to happen



Come on darkoz, you know of the members who participate frequently, far more than 1% are APs.

Anyway, I gained some insight this weekend. I have permission from Wizard and Pink to post this. I met them to see if a casino was erasing multipliers, as stated in the 'stealing value' thread. Mike and I had been playing our usual -EV Pai Gow Tiles until Pink arrived. The 'sting' didn't work. But after, Pink took me around the casino showing me what to look for in a whole bunch of machines. It wasn't mentioned up front, but I was basically going to be giving Pink a 'free ride' if I happened to win, and if I lost, I lost. So we went to some Ultimate X machines, and she would show me the left over multipliers. I'd ask her the EV. She'd say "$3", or $6". What I found out was that there were a lot more than I'd thought there would be, but at a lower $ EV than I thought as well. There were other plays she showed me, a few I haven't read about before, so of course I won't mention them here. One 'good' play resulted in a win of $400 or so. The others basically ended up around break even, so we were up around $400 for the hour. I think the expected EV ( I wasn't adding it up as we went along, so it was from recollection) was around +$150. Not bad for around an hour of walking around a casino. I gave Pink $200 and kept $200.
But my point is this. If it was my livelihood, losing any one of these many opportunities would hurt, some of course more than others. Frankly, I can't imagine a casino operator NOT scouring forums like this. It certainly is possible that the erasing multipliers was an idea borne out of someone reading an Ultimate X thread.
I really appreciate the window into the AP world Pink (and previously AxelWolf) have let me look through. It would not be a life for me, but I can see how with a team and skills honed and eyes wide open it can be a decent living for someone.
I now see the anger aimed at DarkOz a little more clearly. But I still defend his right to make his posts. I just hope he is more considerate of others. Even if he disagrees on the negative value to the "AP world" of a post, try and see it from the other side.

I love Vegas. Back in Buffalo.....
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 272
  • Posts: 9639
January 22nd, 2020 at 7:58:38 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Come on darkoz, you know of the members who participate frequently, far more than 1% are APs.

Anyway, I gained some insight this weekend. I have permission from Wizard and Pink to post this. I met them to see if a casino was erasing multipliers, as stated in the 'stealing value' thread. Mike and I had been playing our usual -EV Pai Gow Tiles until Pink arrived. The 'sting' didn't work. But after, Pink took me around the casino showing me what to look for in a whole bunch of machines. It wasn't mentioned up front, but I was basically going to be giving Pink a 'free ride' if I happened to win, and if I lost, I lost. So we went to some Ultimate X machines, and she would show me the left over multipliers. I'd ask her the EV. She'd say "$3", or $6". What I found out was that there were a lot more than I'd thought there would be, but at a lower $ EV than I thought as well. There were other plays she showed me, a few I haven't read about before, so of course I won't mention them here. One 'good' play resulted in a win of $400 or so. The others basically ended up around break even, so we were up around $400 for the hour. I think the expected EV ( I wasn't adding it up as we went along, so it was from recollection) was around +$150. Not bad for around an hour of walking around a casino. I gave Pink $200 and kept $200.
But my point is this. If it was my livelihood, losing any one of these many opportunities would hurt, some of course more than others. Frankly, I can't imagine a casino operator NOT scouring forums like this. It certainly is possible that the erasing multipliers was an idea borne out of someone reading an Ultimate X thread.
I really appreciate the window into the AP world Pink (and previously AxelWolf) have let me look through. It would not be a life for me, but I can see how with a team and skills honed and eyes wide open it can be a decent living for someone.
I now see the anger aimed at DarkOz a little more clearly. But I still defend his right to make his posts. I just hope he is more considerate of others. Even if he disagrees on the negative value to the "AP world" of a post, try and see it from the other side.

I love Vegas. Back in Buffalo.....



The reason casino operators do not scour forums like this is because it isn't their job.

When a casino employee finishes work, he doesn't think about extra work like scouring gambling forums. He thinks about what he is going to have for dinner or his upcoming vacation

Another problem is that the employees of casinos are very compartmentalized. Table games people don't know the slots department. Marketing doesn't understand table games or how slots work. Security and surveillance don't even understand how slots games work

Most of the AP plays are actually old but still doable. Why is that? Because casino staff aren't motivated to do extra work to understand AP
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 80
  • Posts: 8725
January 22nd, 2020 at 8:06:01 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz



Another problem is that the employees of casinos are very compartmentalized. Table games people don't know the slots department. Marketing doesn't understand table games or how slots work. Security and surveillance don't even understand how slots games work



I think that there are at least two active members on here that would prove that wrong.
Order from chaos
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 272
  • Posts: 9639
January 22nd, 2020 at 8:17:13 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

I think that there are at least two active members on here that would prove that wrong.



If they can correctly pm me exactly what the APs who left were afraid of then I will be convinced

I won't divulge their answers. Just whether I'm satisfied they figured out the ramifications
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 80
  • Posts: 8725
January 22nd, 2020 at 9:42:31 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

If they can correctly pm me exactly what the APs who left were afraid of then I will be convinced

I won't divulge their answers. Just whether I'm satisfied they figured out the ramifications



My comment has nothing to do with those that left. My point was there are casino people here that understand AP, slots, and table games.
Order from chaos

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