Anti-Facial Recognition A T-shirt?
And naturally there are entrepreneurs who now see the alternate market. A market to cater to those who DONT want to be recognized or followed by software.
It seems it might be as simple as wearing a T-shirt.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evj9bm/adversarial-design-shirt-makes-you-invisible-to-ai
Although, I don't see boomers or GenX customers embracing and supporting biometrics in a casino environment anytime soon.
Pretty sure the casino industry is going to die right along with the boomers anyhow.
Quote: MaxPen
Pretty sure the casino industry is going to die right along with the boomers anyhow.
Highly unlikely. They will just adapt to what the younger generations want.
Quote: TigerWuHighly unlikely. They will just adapt to what the younger generations want.
see "skill based gaming" or AKA "video games" :)
This t shirt is cool but won't affect facial recognition... only object recognition. I am surprised though that someone hasn't designed a hat with IR LED's or some other tech that obscures your face when viewed through a camera... who knows, might be out there and i just haven't seen it yet?
Quote: TigerWuHighly unlikely. They will just adapt to what the younger generations want.
Younger generations seem to like keeping their money. They are more astute than their parents and grandparents.
Adapting to someone that just says no is kind of hard to do.
Quote: nameremorsesee "skill based gaming" or AKA "video games" :)
This t shirt is cool but won't affect facial recognition... only object recognition. I am surprised though that someone hasn't designed a hat with IR LED's or some other tech that obscures your face when viewed through a camera... who knows, might be out there and i just haven't seen it yet?
I'm pretty sure it's out there. Baseball cap with little lights embedded in the brim. Saw something about it a few months back.
IMO, the best move seems to me to be if you get some stage putty and change the shape and width of the size of the bridge of your nose. Supposedly one of the things it measures is the distance between your eyes and their relative position to each other. Mess up that interior measurement on your face, and it won't match.
Might want to combine it with glasses so the putty is less obvious.
Quote: MaxPenYounger generations seem to like keeping their money. They are more astute than their parents and grandparents.
Adapting to someone that just says no is kind of hard to do.
They won't say "no" enough to put casinos out of business.
They've already shifted their business model in the last 10-20 years to appeal to club-goers and foodies. If they have to shift again to whatever the next big thing is, they will. The casino industry is not dying in our lifetime.
Quote: TigerWuThey won't say "no" enough to put casinos out of business.
They've already shifted their business model in the last 10-20 years to appeal to club-goers and foodies. If they have to shift again to whatever the next big thing is, they will. The casino industry is not dying in our lifetime.
Never said they were going out of business. I do expect significant declines though. This decade may have been the last of significant expansion. Sands is already waffling on making investments in Japan.
Clubbing and foodies don't support casino gambling.
Quote: beachbumbabsI'm pretty sure it's out there. Baseball cap with little lights embedded in the brim. Saw something about it a few months back.
IMO, the best move seems to me to be if you get some stage putty and change the shape and width of the size of the bridge of your nose. Supposedly one of the things it measures is the distance between your eyes and their relative position to each other. Mess up that interior measurement on your face, and it won't match.
Might want to combine it with glasses so the putty is less obvious.
Insert Groucho Marx disguise here lol
That means less concern about bills as you remain under your parents roof.
As they go out into the world, they will come to realize the financial difficulties of making it on your own.
Without doing any type of scientific statistical analysis, my observation is that cash strapped people having trouble paying bills gamble more because they dream about gambling solving their problems.
So as the younger generations get older they will get roped into the misconceptions of gambling just the same
Quote: darkozYounger generations are living with their folks longer.
That means less concern about bills as you remain under your parents roof.
As they go out into the world, they will come to realize the financial difficulties of making it on your own.
Without doing any type of scientific statistical analysis, my observation is that cash strapped people having trouble paying bills gamble more because they dream about gambling solving their problems.
So as the younger generations get older they will get roped into the misconceptions of gambling just the same
My observations in Vegas are different. The really successful casinos here cater to an affluent retired customer base with a large disposable income fueled by significant investment and pension money. The poor people living on social security over on Boulder Highway support some ghetto establishments struggling to survive.
The successful millennials are interested in things like FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early). Not the right mentality for donking off money in the latter part of their lives playing a game they can't win.
Quote: MaxPenMy observations in Vegas are different. The really successful casinos here cater to an affluent retired customer base with a large disposable income fueled by significant investment and pension money. The poor people living on social security over on Boulder Highway support some ghetto establishments struggling to survive.
The successful millennials are interested in things like FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early). Not the right mentality for donking off money in the latter part of their lives playing a game they can't win.
Yeah, I believe that.
Seems the East Coast casinos cater to the poor more as their bread and butter, feeding off their dreams.
Not sure whats better. rich retired people throwing their money down the toilet (when they could be doing better stuff with it) or poor people believing in a dream.
poor people dont have much to lose. In the end they will be right where they started.
It is trivially easy to defeat current facial recognition. Defeating facial detection is a lot harder, but not impossible.
Defeating facial detection from a computer while trying to appear mostly normal infront of a human is almost impossible.
IR LED's is probably the answer for it, but that stands out extremely obviously.
I'm happy to talk more about what I can, if anyone is interested.
I doubt they'll ever gamble.
Boomers graduated college debt free and anyone with a pulse was handed a middle class job with good security. There were lots of good working class jobs for the rest. I suspect it was much easier to start your own business. Millennials graduate college and are indentured servants to banks and half of them would kill for a solid working class job, even though they have degrees. The housing market sucks. If you have any medical problems, you're ruined. etc. etc. They take it in the shorts left and right. Financial risk is not going to be a thrill for them and they don't have money to throw away.
Gambling is a source of stimulation. For the most part it's an extremely passive activity. Millenials are swimming in stimulation, much of which is interactive. Social media, porn, videogames. Watching symbols spin around on a wheel doesn't cut it. Nor will playing a 40 year old videogame for money vs. a house edge.
Gambling is generally for foolish people. Millennials and GenZ or whatever the kids are, have more information and savvy than prior generations. Just speculation, but I'd imagine that a lot fewer young people today believe in astrology or angels than did in the 60s or 70s. They are probably also less likely to believe in gambling superstitions and more likely to have a basic grasp of the fact that the house edge will almost certainly prevail if you gamble with any regularity.
The tourist / international level casinos in Las Vegas have had no problem reinventing themselves with changing demands. Las Vegas used to be famous for its 99-cent shrimp cocktail. Now it is the $700 bottle service. In 20-30 years it could be the sports (and concert) scene -- NFL, NHL, NBA, esports stadiums, virtually all on the same intersection. Could be THC. Could be that global warming makes the rest of the country not-so-nice, and the desert becomes great.
Maybe split this off from the facial recognition.
Quote: TomG
Maybe split this off from the facial recognition.
Yes, this thread has quickly devolved from the original intent of the post.
Quote: RigondeauxGambling is generally for foolish people. Millennials and GenZ or whatever the kids are, have more information and savvy than prior generations.
Not sure all that information is a good indicator of people staying away from slot machines and roulette wheels. A lot of that information they're consuming are theories on the illiuminati and a flat earth (and all that other stuff that violates the no-politics rules).
Quote: TomGNot sure all that information is a good indicator of people staying away from slot machines and roulette wheels. A lot of that information they're consuming are theories on the illiuminati and a flat earth (and all that other stuff that violates the no-politics rules).
That's only the dumb millennials! I'm a millennial also, but right on the edge between GenZ/millennial. I graduated college a few years ago, had a high 5 figure, now 6 figure, job ready before I graduated, and paid off all my student loans within a year and a half. Most of my peers are in similar situations. The ones that are struggling tended to go to college for degrees with little value.
Very few of my millennial friends gamble either, but do enjoy Las Vegas. And none of us are flat earthers/avocado toasters/etc. We are proud that our generation is killing Applebees though, what a terrible restaurant! ;)
Flat earthers are a very small group. I hope. Could be wrong about all that. I just think millennials are less apt to crude superstition.
Good point about the depression. That generation did enjoy prosperity after that. Also... Getting more and more speculative. But, I think an economic downturn is one thing. Being deliberately screwed over is another. In a way, millennials have already been to the casino.
Maybe being old just turns you into a gambler somehow. It's weird because they have money, but little time. It seems like sitting at a slot machine would be the last thing they'd want to do. Especially cuz, it's not like they are going to really change their lives much even if they hit big.
Quote: nighterfighterThat's only the dumb millennials! I'm a millennial also, but right on the edge between GenZ/millennial. I graduated college a few years ago, had a high 5 figure, now 6 figure, job ready before I graduated, and paid off all my student loans within a year and a half. Most of my peers are in similar situations. The ones that are struggling tended to go to college for degrees with little value.
Very few of my millennial friends gamble either, but do enjoy Las Vegas. And none of us are flat earthers/avocado toasters/etc. We are proud that our generation is killing Applebees though, what a terrible restaurant! ;)
Good for you, but that's not the norm. It was for boomers.
Quote: Rigondeaux
Flat earthers are a very small group. I hope.
They are. It's just that the small group tends to be loud and vocal and gets media attention.
Quote: Rigondeaux
Maybe being old just turns you into a gambler somehow. It's weird because they have money, but little time. It seems like sitting at a slot machine would be the last thing they'd want to do. Especially cuz, it's not like they are going to really change their lives much even if they hit big.
Interestingly enough, this is true. There have been some studies about this. Here is a quote from this article ( LINK REMOVED 1 )
"Gambling-industry marketers also know that advancing age, and the declining cognition that sometimes goes with it, can reduce a person's aversion to risk. "With age, there can be a decrease in the activity of decision-making parts of the brain related to executive functioning," Grant says. "If you have a deficit because of age, gambling may become riskier for you."
Older people with dementia are at especially high risk because they are unable to recognize limitations or use appropriate judgments. And dopamine agonists, a class of prescription drugs used to treat the symptoms of Parkinson's disease and restless legs syndrome, seem to be associated with compulsive gambling as a side effect, according to Marc Potenza, M.D., a professor of psychiatry at Yale University who studies problem gambling."
Another article of dubious quality: (LINK REMOVED 2)
But the general trend among these 2 articles, and others,seems to be deterioration of the frontal lobe, impacting decision making, and undiagnosed dementia.
Quote: Rigondeaux
Good for you, but that's not the norm. It was for boomers.
Thank you. While it's not true for many millennials, the ones that I personally have seen struggle are those who got liberal arts degrees. The ones who didn't go to college seem to actually be better off. I also want to be clear that I am not insulting those who got those degrees, just commenting on what I have seen of people in my age demographic and their current economic success.
Regarding the economic situation of millennials vs boomers, the Infographics Show on YouTube recently came out with an interesting video about the topic:
(LINK REMOVED: 3)
All my links can't be posted yet, because I am under 20 posts. But the first link is from on an article titled "Gambling and Why Older Americans Get Hooked", the second link is from titled "How the gambling industry preys on senior citizens" and the last Article is from YouTube, with a video called "YOU vs BOOMER" from the Infographics Show channel.
- the gambling growth has been in "analytical gambling" - sports betting, fantasy sports wagering and poker. Entertainment growth in society has been in video games, movies and sports. Slot machines are not a growth industry.
- the younger people are educated by the internet, understand the house edge and view gambling as a self-destructive hobby
- the casinos' response has been to persistently raise the house edge on games and, in the name of game security, clamp down on players (no phone use at tables, hold cards with only one hand, don't talk with your spouse about what cards she's holding, strip away anonymity with facial recognition software) making the entire experience less enjoyable.
- Most obviously, Vegas' dominant position as THE gambling destination has been withering away for decades.
-Finally, the IRS positions on taxation of gambling winnings have started to hurt and will hurt more and more in the future.
People who worked for Blockbuster and Sears were in denial and didn't see it coming either
If there was a long-term, discreet solution to facial recognition I'd be quite interested and think a little investing in that would go a long way!
But, inside a casino, all that needs to happen, is a call for security to card a specific guest, and remove them if they refuse.
I would imagine, a failed scan would trigger even more attention on you than a positive scan.... Probably cause an automatic carding....
Quote: GandlerThis could be useful for state surveillance.
But, inside a casino, all that needs to happen, is a call for security to card a specific guest, and remove them if they refuse.
I would imagine, a failed scan would trigger even more attention on you than a positive scan.... Probably cause an automatic carding....
For a lot of AP's that would be preferable to being ID'd and papered across town.
I have limited experience with this type of flag software but within that limited experience the software is reactive, not proactive.
That is, its designed to identify person of interest and alert surveillance. It doesn't NOT identify the person and then flag them.
I suppose the software company can put some programming in that if any failure to identify period triggers a flag but that could cause lots of mis-flags imo.
Security and surveillance is generally lazy. They rely on the software, not the other way around. They dont want to be sitting there double checking the software is working but rather go about their own business and let the software they rely on do its work.
If the software isnt to be trusted and not designed to make life easy then whats the point
Quote: Gandler
I would imagine, a failed scan would trigger even more attention on you than a positive scan.... Probably cause an automatic carding....
How would it know it's a failed scan? Defeating facial recognition and defeating facial detection are two different games.
If the computer receives an image, scans the image and says "nope, no face here", that is an extremely normal behavior.
The next thing is defeating facial recognition, ie: Appearing as someone that isn't you. This can be done very subtly and most humans would not realize you are doing it.
No doubt coming to a casino near you soon.
Quote: GialmereI see that China is now introducing Gait Recognition tech that can identify you without even seeing your face...
No doubt coming to a casino near you soon.
Something a cane and a little bit of acting can probably overcome.
I have little faith in these because so many casinos have recognition software that clearly never works when I am around
Quote: nighterfighterHow would it know it's a failed scan? Defeating facial recognition and defeating facial detection are two different games.
If the computer receives an image, scans the image and says "nope, no face here", that is an extremely normal behavior.
The next thing is defeating facial recognition, ie: Appearing as someone that isn't you. This can be done very subtly and most humans would not realize you are doing it.
Seems like a lot of work to just avoid being recognized.
There are few good reasons to not want to be recognized in a casino (being recognized as spending time in casinos is good for offers and comps). Generally it is a good thing to let casinos see where you spend time and money while in the resort.
The only logical (and not nefarious) reasons somebody would not want to be recognized is for AP or to avoid being recognized to overcome a self imposed banned - gambling addicts who ban themselves from casinos- (again setting aside criminal intent, terror attempts, etc...)
And, the days of AP may be ending in the coming decades at least in countries with modern casinos. I do think that soon it will be very rare for a casino to not identify somebody, and I think that somebody not being recognized will trigger some kind of manual security ID check.
Quote: GandlerSeems like a lot of work to just avoid being recognized.
There are few good reasons to not want to be recognized in a casino (being recognized as spending time in casinos is good for offers and comps). Generally it is a good thing to let casinos see where you spend time and money while in the resort.
The only logical (and not nefarious) reasons somebody would not want to be recognized is for AP or to avoid being recognized to overcome a self imposed banned - gambling addicts who ban themselves from casinos- (again setting aside criminal intent, terror attempts, etc...)
And, the days of AP may be ending in the coming decades at least in countries with modern casinos. I do think that soon it will be very rare for a casino to not identify somebody, and I think that somebody not being recognized will trigger some kind of manual security ID check.
I currently AP at least 2 casinos I am banned from.
I trained trusted people to handle my business there.
Problem solved!!!
