Trouble Sleeping?

For the last year and a half, maybe longer, I have a pattern of waking up about 5 hours after I go to sleep, staying awake for 2 hours, and sleeping again for a couple more. This drives me nuts! I see commercials for sleep aids about it on TV. Well, I just learned that this is the way humans slept forever until the Industrial Revolution. Its called Segmented Sleep and is well documented in literature for the last 600 years. Even Homer mentioned it in The Oddyssey. Its completely natural to sleep this way and unnatural to expect to sleep all in one chunk. Segmented Sleep is by far the most reported sleep 'disorder', and its not a disorder at all. Read about it here:

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sleep-disorders/content/article/10168/56881

{From country farms and villages to city apartments, early Europeans usually sank each evening into what they called a "first sleep," which lasted for several hours. Shortly after midnight, they awoke and spent 1 or 2 hours in a "watching period." A "second," or "morning," sleep followed.

The watching period presented many opportunities. People coming out of their first sleep often stayed in bed to pray, converse with a bedfellow, contemplate the day's events or the meaning of a dream, or simply let their minds wander in a semiconscious state of contentment that was prized at the time.}

This happens to me all the time. Fortunately, I have the luxury of being self employed, and can sleep, or work, whenever I feel like it. I call these waking periods in the middle of the night an anti-nap. I'd prefer to sleep through the night, but if I wake up around 3 AM, I find it very hard to get back to sleep. When this happens, I fiddle around on the computer usually for an hour or two and then go back to bed. Then I wake up late, like 7:30. I also take an afternoon nap most of the time. I make no apologies for this. I'm not very productive in the afternoons if I don't.

I also think it is more efficient to sleep in shorter but more frequent intervals. They say your deepest sleep is shortly after you first fall asleep.

I've an idea that Las Vegas must be strange for sleep patterns. Many people work variable shifts. Many people work under artificial lighting without light clues to affect the various biological clocks. Many people go from Night to Day without experiencing any Dawn.

I would expect there to be a good many with dis-entrained circadian rhythms.

It is usually possible to borrow a recording pulse oximeter, turn off its alarm feature and then record your oxygen levels during sleep. It will give you sufficient information as to how low your oxygen goes, how many times it gets low and reverses, etc. This data can then show whether you need an actual sleep test which can be either in a laboratory or at your home.

Some people get roused from lower levels of sleep by low oxygen levels and their brain reacts by resetting a great many endocrine set-points involving blood pressure and blood sugar levels.

Sleep apnea is a serious condition but unfortunately it is also a "profitable" one for insurance re-imbursements and therefore it is best to be very careful and make sure that you see the underlying data to support any diagnosis. Treatment is cheap and effective with patients often reporting immediate improvements in affect, blood pressure readings and an end to nocturnal urination.

Those who suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder are often most easily and effectively treated not by exposure to bright light but by exposure to an artificial dawn. A fifty dollar radio alarm clock that has a built-in lightbulb alarm function that grows brighter over a period of fifteen minutes is often the cheapest solution for ending SAD and re-entraining escaped circadian rhythms.

Quote: Wizard

They say your deepest sleep is shortly after you first fall asleep.

Yes, it happens in the '1st sleep', apparently. The 2nd sleep is lighter and full of dreams. It sure is for me. This is facinating stuff and very new, its only been researched in the last 10 years. They're finding, in studying primitive cultures in Africa and the Amazon, that indeed this is how people sleep, in segments. They say throughout history, this is when most married couples had sex, in the 'between period'. Its when writers and scientists had their best thinking time, and religious people had their revelations. It was so common, as common as eating and drinking and everyday life, that seldom was it written about. With the advent of artificial light and the Industrial Revolution, sleep was regimented and relegated to a specific time period and became an unnatural act. Many people only get the 1st sleep and miss the 2nd entirely, thats why they're tired all the time. When asked in a poll what they would do if they had the next 3 days off, the vast majority of people answered: SLEEP! What does that tell you?

I remember reading that Edison only slept 4 hours a night and took 1-2 hour naps during the day. People thought this was crazy, but it turns out to be historically natural. Many primitive cultures still do it.

Quote: EvenBob

I remember reading that Edison only slept 4 hours a night and took 1-2 hour naps during the day. People thought this was crazy, but it turns out to be historically natural. Many primitive cultures still do it.

Does anyone know what kind of sleep pattern those trapped miners in Chili feel into?

PaigowDan could probably give some good comments on the sleep pattern of dealers. It is my understanding that most shifts tend to start at noon, 8 PM, or 4 AM. So all of them would at least get some daylight.

Advil PM. Two or three will put you down.

Quote: Wizard

It is my understanding that most shifts tend to start at noon, 8 PM, or 4 AM. So all of them would at least get some daylight.

Yes, you are quite correct in saying that all shifts are likely to experience some daylight and such cues tend to have an effect but the most potent "clock setting" is done by experiencing a gradual dawn rather than a stark transition from dark to light as many of us have in our modern world.

Most experiments where subjects are deprived of external cues for an extended period of time (no external lighting, no clocks, no unsolicited serving of a breakfast cereal or anything like that), the subjects gradually adopt a 24 hour day followed by a 24 hour night cycle. Such experiments were for military and space travel purposes but are ethically difficult now.

Quote: Wizard

PaigowDan could probably give some good comments on the sleep pattern of dealers. It is my understanding that most shifts tend to start at noon, 8 PM, or 4 AM. So all of them would at least get some daylight.

During my "try to break in" phase last year I read some about this. My understanding was shifts were 8AM; 4PM, and midnight for starts though local practice could vary. One of our instructors said he could count on one hand how many "day" shifts he had in his ten year career. He didn't mean when he worked one for a period of time, he said he worked what we consider a "normal" shift less than ten days in ten years. It was also stressed to us that no matter when you look at your watch, a casino employee is clocking in. That was for our benefit, but the message was, "take this job and normal sleep patterns are gone for as long as you work here so accept it from day one."

Best way I ever saw the personalities described on a "dealer stories" type page is as follows:

Day: a family person, been with the casino for years, lives as close to a normal life as a dealer can.

Swing: either a total party animal who can stay out until 5 because he starts at midningt; OR a person who hustles outside deals on some kind of moneymaking project at all times. Has many at various stages of development at all times. Uses their hours off when most people work to full advantage.

Grave: Spends their off time trying to fall asleep and on-duty time trying to stay awake. Has no hope of anything approaching a normal life.

i've had very bizarre sleeping habits for as long as i can remember. i tried everything and finally gave up and just flow with it. fortunately like the Wizard i usually can. my internal clock seems to be skewed and i have bizzare dreams too. just too much to explain here, but to say the least i would be a perfect subject for study. perhaps the reason for my name, inap?. i call myself a vampire, not because its halloween but because i seem to 'wake up' at night. i never sleep for more than 2 to 4 hours and usually just an hour or less then i'm up again. i just say i don't sleep, i meditate.

this is one reason why vegas is the perfect place for me. the only thing is, the only time i get very tired is late in the afternoon or right after eating. i mean VERY tired. i can't keep my eyes open. in vegas after eating, usually a buffet, we sit at a machine to play and rest for awhile. i get so tired i'm almost falling off the chair! we are usually away from our hotel so theres no place to lay down for just a few minutes. my friend is the same way and while we were in vegas he tried going into a bar/lounge to rest but they kicked him out. lol.

the dreaming part of my sleep pattern is very interesting and bizarre also, but that's another subject.

.

I would guess anyone with a moniker 'inap' would be the expert on sleep. Almost as expert as me (I'm an anesthesiologist).

Quote: SOOPOO

I would guess anyone with a moniker 'inap' would be the expert on sleep. Almost as expert as me (I'm an anesthesiologist).

i'm sure you could help many of us. i'm more of a 'victim' than an expert. being in the medical field maybe you know of a univerisity or research organizatioin who could use a subject for study. it would probably help both of us.

.

Quote: SOOPOO

I would guess anyone with a moniker 'inap' would be the expert on sleep. Almost as expert as me (I'm an anesthesiologist).

Anesthesia feels more like what suspended animation (might be) than sleep, I have to say. (I've been put to "sleep" about a dozen times). I'm awake... complete blank... then I'm awake again. Then I throw up. ( But usually in the recovery room.)

Ask for EMEND next time before surgery. Far less likely to heave.

Quote: inap

i've had very bizarre sleeping habits for as long as i can remember.

There are at least three sleep study centers in Las Vegas and there are three in or near to Reno.
You can also get an in-home sleep study and often your insurance company will encourage that for cost savings reasons.
I know of no clinical studies in Nevada that are currently enrolling patients but most such studies are drug studies and you would not want that.
I would suggest the following sequence:

Overnight Recording Pulse Oximetry Test. This is free and they usually both deliver and pick-up the equipment free of charge also. So its totally free of all charges. The technician will explain the use of the equipment for about 15 minutes but the only thing to remember is to turn the alarm to OFF so that the beeping does not wake you up at night. The next morning you hit the PRINT button and read your results.

If your results indicate significant episodes below 90 percent and many abrupt reversals you take a copy of the printout to a doctor and get an Overnight Sleep Test in one of the various sleep labs. Usually your insurance covers this.

Then get both the Report of the sleep test and the raw data file. No Charge for that unless you specify a particular data format, then there is a modest charge. Analyze them and proceed from there.



Based on the post prandial sleeping, I'd get some glucose testing done too. That will only be a few bucks.

I strongly recommend a sleep study for anyone with a problem with being tired even though they get what should be plenty of hours of sleep. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea over 10 years ago and started using a CPAP machine at night. It immediately changed my life for the better.

Other warning signs may include night sweats, restless legs, excessive snoring and suddenly waking up feeling like you are suffocating. Left untreated it will shorten your life and adversely affect the quality of life you do have.

Quote: FleaStiff

There are at least three sleep study centers in Las Vegas and there are three in or near to Reno.
You can also get an in-home sleep study and often your insurance company will encourage that for cost savings reasons.
I know of no clinical studies in Nevada that are currently enrolling patients but most such studies are drug studies and you would not want that.
I would suggest the following sequence:

Overnight Recording Pulse Oximetry Test. This is free and they usually both deliver and pick-up the equipment free of charge also. So its totally free of all charges. The technician will explain the use of the equipment for about 15 minutes but the only thing to remember is to turn the alarm to OFF so that the beeping does not wake you up at night. The next morning you hit the PRINT button and read your results.

If your results indicate significant episodes below 90 percent and many abrupt reversals you take a copy of the printout to a doctor and get an Overnight Sleep Test in one of the various sleep labs. Usually your insurance covers this.

Then get both the Report of the sleep test and the raw data file. No Charge for that unless you specify a particular data format, then there is a modest charge. Analyze them and proceed from there.



Based on the post prandial sleeping, I'd get some glucose testing done too. That will only be a few bucks.

thanks FleaStiff. all very good suggestions. i don't really want to spend time with this while in vegas but i will definitly check into the sleep study centers in vegas before my next trip. i have looked into this before but many required more time, commitment or travel than i was willing or able to do at the time. i also didn't want any study that involved drugs. i figured there would be a time and place for this and in the mean time learned to adapt. your last suggestion is very good as many have suggested that my diet may be one reason. i would especially like to do a dream study.

.

Need to sleep better?

1.) Avoid caffeine no less than 8hrs before sleeping.

2.) Avoid stress. Thinking about the job, the wife, the kids, the mortgage, or just about anything stressful can be disastrous for your sleeping habits.

3.) Avoid noisy environments.....ever sleep with a Boise noise canceling headphones? OMG THAT IS SO GOOD!!!!!!!!!! Try this on a Friday night so you won't be late for work during the weekdays.

4.) A big meal before bed can screw up your sleeping habits. Go with a light meal and some decaf-tea.

5.) Rigorous exercise can improve sleep. Ie, Not work yourself out to exhaustion, but exercise in the middle of the day. 1/2hr - 1hr of solid cardio + weight lifting.

6.) Get a naughty girlfriend =)

Quote: Asswhoopermcdaddy

Need to sleep better?

6.) Get a naughty girlfriend =)

Won't she keep you up, by, er, keeping you up?

Whenever I have more than 1 drink the evening before bed, I sleep for five hours, then get up for a couple of hours because I can't sleep. This happens without fail.

Caffeine works the same way with me.

I would start out by looking at your eating and drinking patterns and see how your sleep is affected.

Any drug with PM in it (Advil, Tylenol) has the same ingredients as a sleeping pill or antihistamine (Pseudoephedrine 25mg). Just go straight for the sleeping pill if you have periodic episodes (not habitual) where you can't sleep.

Failing drinking and eating patterns and stress, I would see your doctor and go from there.