OnceDear
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OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:43:49 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

You like it because it is what you know. I have seen our VA hospitals, which will bring a person to tears. I simply do not trust government. Besides the VA, I look at how they have run Indian Reservations. How they have put troops in harms way to test long term effect of radiation. Public housing. All of it is just plain awful.

Why would I want to turn health care over to them?

So, do you suggest closing those badly run VA hospitals? Knock down the public housing?

Easy to tear stuff down, not so easy to replace.

Your VA needs the right leaders, the right funding, the right oversight, the right policies. Sounds like it doesn't have all those.
But you have what you have and this isn't really the correct forum or thread for such pure politics.

We had rubbish NHS hospitals and Trusts and systems and employees. It's a constant thread that needs constantly revisiting. Top down from government and bottom up by local activists. Neither of those can or will do it alone.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:47:57 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

So, do you suggest closing those badly run VA hospitals? Knock down the public housing?



Lots of the public housing has been knocked down. The VA does need a huge overhaul, but it will never really be fixed, a sad thing. As vets die off maybe we get some improvement due to reduced demand.

Quote:

We had rubbish NHS hospitals and Trusts and systems and employees. It's a constant thread that needs constantly revisiting. Top down from government and bottom up by local activists. Neither of those can or will do it alone.



Now you are starting to see what I am saying. I don't want to have to keep watching government run hospitals, I want to go to a better hospital if I choose.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:48:17 AM permalink
Quote: djatc

why can't there be an expected itemized cost per procedure BEFORE getting the treatment, like dentists do? I hate the fact nobody knows how much anything will cost beforehand. Can I have some options as to what to treat or not?



Golly.... Have YOU ever asked? Has a health care provider EVER not answered a question YOU asked about how much something will cost?
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:48:52 AM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

I had exceptional medical insurance and moved to a new area. It took a few days to find a Dr. that would accept my insurance and I had to wait 4 weeks for an appt.

I had to have that appt. to get a referral to the Dr. I actually needed to see, a Dr. who could perform a spinal epidural with fluoroscopy [sp]. It took 4 weeks to see that Dr. who set me up for the epidural 2 weeks later. So for a herniated disc, steroid injection, while in a lot of pain, it took ten weeks to get an injection.

To add insult to injury, I think this guy was some kind of sadist, who rather than give the regular epidural, gave 6 facet joint injections, which take a very long needle, as they go in from the side. All without even local anesthetic.

Sounds like the worst of all worlds? What might have made it better? Non-acceptance of your insurance seems to be a big problem. Maybe a system where centralised or collective bargaining were combined with and tempered by healthy competition might work?
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:54:02 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Lots of the public housing has been knocked down. The VA does need a huge overhaul, but it will never really be fixed, a sad thing. As vets die off maybe we get some improvement due to reduced demand.



Now you are starting to see what I am saying. I don't want to have to keep watching government run hospitals, I want to go to a better hospital if I choose.

LOL, so you do want the sort of choice that I have? And there was me thinking you were against it.

ALL hospitals MUST meet minimum standards. Who can dispute that?
Hospitals that meet minimal standards must be accessible to YOU (whoever you are)

Now, we could discuss the funding aspects till the cows come home. Our starting point in the UK is different to that in the US. The next big decision is which direction to travel.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
Dalex64
Dalex64
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December 15th, 2018 at 11:11:22 AM permalink
What you are experiencing is a vocal minority.

The majority of us citizens favor expanding socialized medicine here. That includes 52% of republicans

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/most-americans-now-support-medicare-for-all-and-free-college-tuition.html

Surprisingly, there are more in favor of that than marijuana legalization.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/08/americans-support-marijuana-legalization/?amp=1

Things will change, but slowly. In addition to gridlock, the 535 representatives in the federal government do not really represent the will of the people. (I'm expecting the minority to state that this is a good thing)
Limit those surveys to them, and the results will be quite different.

I know not everything a majority wants is a good idea, practical, or possible, but that does not invalidate their views when they are not like that.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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December 15th, 2018 at 11:23:19 AM permalink
Quote: Dalex64



The majority of us citizens favor expanding socialized medicine here



Only because they have no idea
how much it sucks. My bro in
law in Canada comes here when
he wants something done in
a timely fashion. He doesn't
want to wait 12 weeks (the average)
to get an MRI, when he can get
one here in usually 10 days or less.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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December 15th, 2018 at 11:24:20 AM permalink
Quote: Dalex64

What you are experiencing is a vocal minority.

The majority of us citizens favor expanding socialized medicine here. That includes 52% of republicans

Serious question...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Republican party generally in favor of socialised medical treatment, but that they dug their heels in in the opposite direction as a way of taking Obama down. Didn't that force upon ObamaCare the sort of compromises that rendered it weaker than it needed to be.

I CAN understand how your society would be against the imposition of a new 'tax' or system that forced you to pay for such a socialist concept. Land of the free and all that.
My counterpoint is that with majority support, you could make something like it not only work, but actually cost in.
It's just about the very concept of insurance: It needs some to contribute more than they use because some will be randomly unlucky enough to use more than they can contribute.

There will always be piss takers and parasites, just as there will always be parasitic lobbyists. Both are a problem.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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December 15th, 2018 at 11:26:35 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Only because they have no idea
how much it sucks. My bro in
law in Canada comes here when
he wants something done in
a timely fashion. He doesn't
want to wait 12 weeks (the average)
to get an MRI, when he can get
one here in usually 10 days or less.

He has money, he exercises his right to choose. Do you have any family or friends that cannot access an MRI at all, because of the cost? He might head to Canada and be gratetful of 12 weeks.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
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December 15th, 2018 at 11:42:46 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

I use the expression "acceptable quality at appropriate cost"
What's the wait time for a typical working class US person, or a non-wealthy old person, or anyone who cannot afford treatment and doesn't have 'affordable care' if he wants his hernia or cancer treated?
Do US people suffer or die because they cannot afford to even join a queue, let alone jump it?



It's obviously hard to determine how many die by something like lack of medical treatment. But, if you believe experts conducting empirical studies, well over 10,000 people die every year.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/


Our politicians think it is worth it to preserve corporate profits. It is that simple.

Again, this isn't really a controversial issue per se. As much as our politicians and media lie about the issue, 70% of America agrees with you.

All of the factual information really is on one side.

Your wait times are no worse than ours.

You pay half as much.

For paying double, we get thousands of deaths and the number one cause of bankruptcy.

It's really just ideological extremists and corporations that favor our system. And I guess some rich people.

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