djatc
djatc
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
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December 15th, 2018 at 8:57:45 AM permalink
why can't there be an expected itemized cost per procedure BEFORE getting the treatment, like dentists do? I hate the fact nobody knows how much anything will cost beforehand. Can I have some options as to what to treat or not?
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
aceofspades
aceofspades
Joined: Apr 4, 2012
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December 15th, 2018 at 9:01:57 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Uhh

Didnt they force everyone to get digital signals and throw out all those rabbit ears a few years ago



Still free though
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 15th, 2018 at 9:06:14 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Short time? 75 years? So, we managed to have our NHS survive for about 75 years. We love it, we fight for it and it survives.

Should we aspire to just abandon it and go for a US equivalent?.



I don't care what you fight for. Fact is you accept wait times as "normal." A hidden problem is do the Brits make the new procedures in medical care or just adopt them from somewhere else? In a socialized system you will get far less innovation over the long term.

As to the UK there is also an "island effect." The UK is about the size of PA and NY states. A satellite pic shows how most of that is concentrated in the southern part:



Thus you get economies of scale you will not get in the USA. As socialism only "works" in the Nordic countries, maybe you in the UK have that with your system. But I do not want my government running the show. The ones I see most running it are the types I was in the OWS movement. I saw them hanging around a square in tents, having a group party while I was on my way to a job. Go figure.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
OnceDear
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OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
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December 15th, 2018 at 9:16:03 AM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

Still free though

The 'Free to air' TV network was analog with picture aspect ratio of 4:3 with 5. Yes FIVE channels. Then Digital 'Freeview' was introduced. It used the same RF masts but with different underlying infrastructure. For a year or so there was parallel running, but that was a compromise on signal quality and channel availability. During transition, we would buy a set top box to get the digital channels on an analog TV. Shops stopped selling analog only 4:3 TVs but the new digital TV's could cope with analog, till it was eventually decommissioned.
Satellite TV was long available alongside and much of the country, though not all, could get cable. Because of the population density here, free to air tv is pretty much universally available.

Now we have Digital free to air with about 70 channels (most rubbish repeats) The only cost for those is the TV licence fee plus toleration of advert breaks on most channels.

Satellite TV and cable still exist, and are subscription based.

Internet TV has only picked up in the last few years. The core 5 channels are free on all platforms.

Weirdly, we still need a TV licence for ANY platform that is capable of receiving TV broadcast even if it's a computer with IP access. Effectively every home needs one TV license and the TV Licensing authority hounds the owner/ resident of any home that does not have a license. The burden of proof of 'No TV here' is a bone of contention.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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December 15th, 2018 at 9:32:06 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Fact is you accept wait times as "normal."

I use the expression "acceptable quality at appropriate cost"
What's the wait time for a typical working class US person, or a non-wealthy old person, or anyone who cannot afford treatment and doesn't have 'affordable care' if he wants his hernia or cancer treated?
Do US people suffer or die because they cannot afford to even join a queue, let alone jump it?
Do US people face the stress of deciding between food or treatment?
Quote:

A hidden problem is do the Brits make the new procedures in medical care or just adopt them from somewhere else? In a socialized system you will get far less innovation over the long term.

Cite your evidence. I reckon we adopt the best practises whether invented in the US, or developed by some of our best university hospitals. UK hospitals were ground breakers in many facets of treatment.

Quote:

As to the UK there is also an "island effect." The UK is about the size of PA and NY states. A satellite pic shows how most of that is concentrated in the southern part:

That may make it work better here than in the US. If we have an advantage there, then we are fortunate. I'm sure there is a downside too. Swings and roundabouts.

Quote:

Thus you get economies of scale you will not get in the USA.

maybe.
Quote:

But I do not want my government running the show. The ones I see most running it are the types I was in the OWS movement. I saw them hanging around a square in tents, having a group party while I was on my way to a job. Go figure.

Government holds the top level purse strings and policy control and demands decent value for money. Day to day admin is done by Health Trusts which are much scrutinised by both government and the public at large. Much leaner than it used to be. The 'hanging around' parasites have largely been swept out decades ago.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
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December 15th, 2018 at 9:37:09 AM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

Still free though

When US signals switched to digital. free signal conversion boxes were given out. Proof our government did not want the people to go without their programming.

Que Bono?
OnceDear
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OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
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December 15th, 2018 at 9:45:39 AM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

When US signals switched to digital. free signal conversion boxes were given out. Proof our government did not want the people to go without their programming.

Que Bono?

Free...... Who paid for that? Where did your government get the free boxes, free?
Mine cost me 20 quid.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:01:49 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Free...... Who paid for that? Where did your government get the free boxes, free?



They came from the same distributor that hands out all the "free" health care in various countries.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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Thanks for this post from:
beachbumbabs
December 15th, 2018 at 10:05:52 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman


A few posts above a Brit has stated that you can "pay extra to jump the line." Is that what you really want?



Yup, I've suggested exactly that to people like you who keep saying you will wait months for care if it were socialized. Why shouldn't you get more if you can pay more? Nothing wrong with that. You just don't like anything that might actually work.

Only exceptions are the same as we already make here. You can'tmove ahead of emergent situations regardless of ability to pay.
The Hall of Unverified Claims is a vast place with many shelves.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:10:11 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Yup, I've suggested exactly that to people like you who keep saying you will wait months for care if it were socialized. Why shouldn't you get more if you can pay more? Nothing wrong with that. You just don't like anything that might actually work.

Only exceptions are the same as we already make here. You can'tmove ahead of emergent situations regardless of ability to pay.



We have that now, you do not seem to like it. What I do not like is my government telling me, "Here is this great health care system, but since waits are long you can pay extra to get out of it."

And if you think resentment of "the rich" is bad now, just wait! People scream if someone gets to move to the hear of the line at Disney resorts. How will that play? All such a system will do is set up decades more of health care battles.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

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