Trump's Second and Third year in office
Quote: AZDuffmanI really do not care about the numbers since I am not the one owning the business to make the choice. Each and every business owner can do that. And your hotel example is moot as per my explanation earlier. Although I might amend that a little to say a bar should be able to take measures to prevent his bar from becoming a gay bar.
Why do you care? Just patronize another business if you have a problem with the owners of a business.
Let me ask you:
Should a black baker be forced to make a Confederate Flag cake?
Should a Jewish diamond merchant have to make a ring in the form of a swastika?
Should a Mexican sign maker have to make a sign saying "BUILD THE WALL!"????
By your standards it appears they should, at least as I am reading it.
Only if the person that’s asking is gay black Mexican trans retarded fat queer Indian old disabled Jewish or liberal.
Quote: AZDuffmanI
Should a black baker be forced to make a Confederate Flag cake?
Should a Jewish diamond merchant have to make a ring in the form of a swastika?
Should a Mexican sign maker have to make a sign saying "BUILD THE WALL!"????
By your standards it appears they should, at least as I am reading it.
You probably think you got me, but you didn't.
They didn't ask the baker to make a cake condemning heterosexual sex, or suggesting death to heterosexuals, or associated with anti-heterosexual rhetoric.
Quote: rxwineYou probably think you got me, but you didn't.
They didn't ask the baker to make a cake condemning heterosexual sex, or suggesting death to heterosexuals, or associated with anti-heterosexual rhetoric.
You didn't answer the question.
Quote: EvenBobThere's a great scene in Downton Abby where
a druggist won't sell a contraceptive device
to an unmarried woman. And gives a lecture
of it's evils to all married women who buy one.
There is all kinds of bigotry. So what.
Did you see the notes on Limbaugh today? He totally called it. Said how the liberals are calling it a "narrow decision" and "don't care about it." But if it were reversed, they would be dancing in the streets and gays running to every church around to demand a ceremony. In reality, it is driving them nuts.
Almost as if he is lurking here.
Quote: AZDuffmanLet me ask you:
Should a black baker be forced to make a Confederate Flag cake?
Should a Jewish diamond merchant have to make a ring in the form of a swastika?
Should a Mexican sign maker have to make a sign saying "BUILD THE WALL!"????
1) If a black baker makes Confederate Flag cakes to sell in his bakery, he must also allow both white and black customers to buy them
2) If a Jewish jeweler makes swastika rings to sell to Jewish customers, he must also allow other customers to buy them.
3) I'm not as familiar with Mexican discrimination laws, but if a Mexican sign maker makes signs that say "Build the Wall," it would be silly for him to only sell them to certain groups of customers.
4) In this Supreme Court case, was it a matter of what the baker was being asked to make, or who he was asked to make it for? That should make all the difference.
Quote: TomG1) If a black baker makes Confederate Flag cakes to sell in his bakery, he must also allow both white and black customers to buy them
2) If a Jewish jeweler makes swastika rings to sell to Jewish customers, he must also allow other customers to buy them.
3) I'm not as familiar with Mexican discrimination laws, but if a Mexican sign maker makes signs that say "Build the Wall," it would be silly for him to only sell them to certain groups of customers.
That is not what I asked. I asked, "should they be FORCED to make these products. Nice try, but still more deflection.
Clearly folks are afraid to answer.
You can't refuse someone on religious grounds, but if it is your business you can determine who you want to do business with. That's the reason for going through the crap to have your own business, is to decide for yourself how best to profit from it. You can refuse people just because you want to.
Quote: AZDuffmanThat is not what I asked. I asked, "should they be FORCED to make these products. Nice try, but still more deflection.
Clearly folks are afraid to answer.
No can be forced to do anything. They can merely take the consequences if someone or court disagrees with them.
Because I left for a few minutes has nothing to do with being afraid. That's an insult.
LOLOL
A chip off the old block!
Quote: rxwineNo can be forced to do anything. They can merely take the consequences if someone or court disagrees with them.
Except that had the decision gone the other way, the baker would have been forced to make the cake.
Save me the "take the consequences" thing. The baker was in danger of losing everything. And the liberals seem to be OK with that.
And you did not answer the question!
Quote: rxwineIf you didn't understand, my answer was no, btw.
I did not understand, but thank you for clarifying.
OK, so you are with me on being able to refuse business you do not want? You support the baker in turning down making the cake?
Quote: AZDuffmanThat is not what I asked. I asked, "should they be FORCED to make these products. Nice try, but still more deflection.
Clearly folks are afraid to answer.
The question you asked was rhetorical.
Dismissing any sort of discussion as deflection must make it very easy for you to avoid ever having to use any sort of logical or critical thinking.
Quote: petroglyphWho hasn't seen a sign in a restaurant that says, " we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?
You can't refuse someone on religious grounds, but if it is your business you can determine who you want to do business with. That's the reason for going through the crap to have your own business, is to decide for yourself how best to profit from it. You can refuse people just because you want to.
No, you really can't. A sign means nothing.
It was most definitively a request for a custom cake. Anything on display or to celebrate a difference occasion was for sale to anyone.Quote: TomG4) In this Supreme Court case, was it a matter of what the baker was being asked to make, or who he was asked to make it for? That should make all the difference.
Quote: TomGThe question you asked was rhetorical.
Dismissing any sort of discussion as deflection must make it very easy for you to aoid ever having to use any sort of logical or critical thinking.
No, it was not. It was a test to see how much people believe that you have to serve everyone and anyone vs. freedom to refuse business. And it got the same result I got when I asked all the supporters of transgenders if they would date and have an intimate relationship with someone who used to be their sex. That time I had to drag a "no" out of all but one, the one instead just posted a connection to a porn site, afraid to answer. This was proof that they did not believe a transgender was as "normal" as they said they thought they were. IOW, nobody put their money where their mouth was.
Same here. All the folks who hate the baker and think he is a bigot for not making a cake he did not want to make all of the sudden they dummy up when asked if someone they like has to take business from someone they do not like. IOW, all (but one now) are afraid to put their money where their mouths are.
Now, I hate having to act this way on a forum, verbally beating people to drag an opinion out of them. But the liberals here will not have a discussion that does not just go, "the baker is a bigot!" They want to be hypocrites about it, fine. It is just that I am not going to let them get away with that.
My hope is maybe, just maybe, they see the point and agree that the gay couple should have just went somewhere else.
Quote: AZDuffmanNo, it was not. It was a test to see how much people believe that you have to serve everyone and anyone vs. freedom to refuse business. And it got the same result I got when I asked all the supporters of transgenders if they would date and have an intimate relationship with someone who used to be their sex. That time I had to drag a "no" out of all but one, the one instead just posted a connection to a porn site, afraid to answer. This was proof that they did not believe a transgender was as "normal" as they said they thought they were. IOW, nobody put their money where their mouth was.
Same here. All the folks who hate the baker and think he is a bigot for not making a cake he did not want to make all of the sudden they dummy up when asked if someone they like has to take business from someone they do not like. IOW, all (but one now) are afraid to put their money where their mouths are.
Now, I hate having to act this way on a forum, verbally beating people to drag an opinion out of them. But the liberals here will not have a discussion that does not just go, "the baker is a bigot!" They want to be hypocrites about it, fine. It is just that I am not going to let them get away with that.
My hope is maybe, just maybe, they see the point and agree that the gay couple should have just went somewhere else.
I dont recall you asking that transgender question
You must have made certain i didnt see it
I dont understand the logic though. Straight males cam be in support of gay rights without wanting to date gay or trans men
He offered to make them any premade design in his catalog, but refused make them a cake with any gay stuff on it.
But the SCOTUS decision did not address any of that, just that the Colorado decision was not valid due to an apparent bias against the baker’s religious beliefs.
I am not seeing an uproar of liberals upset about this, and I wouldn’t agree with them if they were. Conservative media LOVES to manufacture liberal hysteria where there is none.
Gee, do the casinos know that?Quote: billryanNo, you really can't. A sign means nothing.
I wouldnt want a priest forced to marry two gays
Or as AZ says a nazi guy force a jew to design a swastika cake
So i understand AZ side
Still its offensive to say "not you. Youre gay" or "not you. You dont believe in Christ" to potential customers
Its a slippery slope in both directions
Scotus clearly saw that and tried their best to avoid any real decision... at least till the next case variant
Quote: darkozI dont recall you asking that transgender question
It was at DT.
Quote:I dont understand the logic though. Straight males cam be in support of gay rights without wanting to date gay or trans men
Few liberals do understand the logic, because it centers on actions not words.
The logic is simple. If you think a trans woman is "a real and regular woman" but would automatically exclude them from your dating pool based on that factor alone, then you really do not think said trans is "normal." Your actions just showed it.
Put other ways, it is like the public school administrator who sends his kids to private school. Or the liberal white guy who is all for interracial dating, until his daughter brings a black boy home. Or Ted Kennedy who was for alternative energy, except when they wanted to put windmills off the coast and into his view.
Quote: SanchoPanzaGee, do the casinos know that?
Usually after Bob Nersessian gets thru with them
Quote: gamerfreakI am not seeing an uproar of liberals upset about this, and I wouldn’t agree with them if they were. Conservative media LOVES to manufacture liberal hysteria where there is none.
Just look at the righties on this board. At least three of them just can't fathom how ams288, a gay leftie, doesn't give a flying frick about this decision.
It is a notable paradox that a human rights agency of the government perpetrates such patently obvious discrimination. Too bad that they can't even bear the testimony of the supposed public that they are ostensibly appointed to serve.Quote: gamerfreakThe baker did not refuse to sell a cake to the gay couple.
He offered to make them any premade design in his catalog, but refused make them a cake with any gay stuff on it.
But the SCOTUS decision did not address any of that, just that the Colorado decision was not valid due to an apparent bias against the baker’s religious beliefs.
Quote: darkozI have seen gay bars refuse entry to straights and lesbian bars refuse entry to males
I have heard of gay males getting upset because their once gay-bar was getting filled with straight females "sightseeing" what a gay bar is like. As if it were a zoo.
FWIW, I have no idea how gay bars work as to do lesbians and gay guys usually have their own places or do they mix. I am sure there are both. I am just mentioning what I read once. So I could easily see an entry policy.
Quote: AZDuffmanIt was at DT.
Few liberals do understand the logic, because it centers on actions not words.
The logic is simple. If you think a trans woman is "a real and regular woman" but would automatically exclude them from your dating pool based on that factor alone, then you really do not think said trans is "normal." Your actions just showed it.
Put other ways, it is like the public school administrator who sends his kids to private school. Or the liberal white guy who is all for interracial dating, until his daughter brings a black boy home. Or Ted Kennedy who was for alternative energy, except when they wanted to put windmills off the coast and into his view.
I think you are confusing the fight for rights here
A straight male isnt arguing the trannie is a real and regular woman BUT that the trannie feels that way
The trannie identifies as female and its such a psychological burden she should not be forced into male restrooms
If not, than merchants are slaves.Quote: billryanNo, you really can't. A sign means nothing.
Same here with WOV, Wizards house wizard's rules. He does not have to allow posters [customers] to post here.
Quote: gamerfreakThe baker did not refuse to sell a cake to the gay couple.
He offered to make them any premade design in his catalog, but refused make them a cake with any gay stuff on it.
But the SCOTUS decision did not address any of that, just that the Colorado decision was not valid due to an apparent bias against the baker’s religious beliefs.
I am not seeing an uproar of liberals upset about this, and I wouldn’t agree with them if they were. Conservative media LOVES to manufacture liberal hysteria where there is none.
I am seeing some liberal and LGBT upset on my social feeds, but only from people who are buying the RightWing misinterpretation of what the decision actually was. I have straightened (pun sort of intended) a couple of them out, as have many others.
What's that line from Princess Bride? Oh. Yeah.
"I do not think it means what you think it means.” – Inigo Montoya
And, to answer AZDs extreme, hypothetical and irrelevant to the SCOTUS decision questions, I think you, rx, and TomG have about covered it. Thanks.
Quote: darkozI think you are confusing the fight for rights here
A straight male isnt arguing the trannie is a real and regular woman BUT the trannie feels that way
The trannie identifies as female and its such a psychological burden she should not be forced into male restrooms
I am not talking about that. I am taking about a Bruce Jenner type who had the full surgery and became Catlin. I asked who would date (and sleep with) them. Was pulling teeth, but nobody would.
Quote: AZDuffmanNo, it was not. It was a test to see how much people believe that you have to serve everyone and anyone vs. freedom to refuse business.
Colorado law says any business that is open to the public cannot deny service to someone because they are gay. The Supreme Court did not reject that law
Quote: AZDuffmanAnd it got the same result I got when I asked all the supporters of transgenders if they would date and have an intimate relationship with someone who used to be their sex.
That got real weird, real quick.
Quote: AZDuffmanSame here. All the folks who hate the baker and think he is a bigot for not making a cake he did not want to make all of the sudden they dummy up when asked if someone they like has to take business from someone they do not like. IOW, all (but one now) are afraid to put their money where their mouths are.
It seems you're the only one here with any feelings at all toward the baker and the gay couple. The rest of really don't care that much
Quote: AZDuffmanI am not talking about that. I am taking about a Bruce Jenner type who had the full surgery and became Catlin. I asked who would date (and sleep with) them. Was pulling teeth, but nobody would.
Hijack. Take it back to DT, please.
Quote: SanchoPanzaIt was most definitively a request for a custom cake. Anything on display or to celebrate a difference occasion was for sale to anyone.
Makes it pretty easy to see why the Supreme Court ruled the way they did. Thank you for the answer. Why is that so hard for some of the other people here to give a clear. straight forward an answer like that?
Quote: AZDuffmanThe logic is simple. If you think a trans woman is "a real and regular woman" but would automatically exclude them from your dating pool based on that factor alone, then you really do not think said trans is "normal." Your actions just showed it.
Your argument was bad then and bad now.
Are you saying you exclude people from basic rights you enjoy if you wouldn't date them? How many people would that be?
Quote: darkozI have seen gay bars refuse entry to straights and lesbian bars refuse entry to males
I wouldnt want a priest forced to marry two gays
Or as AZ says a nazi guy force a jew to design a swastika cake
So i understand AZ side
Still its offensive to say "not you. Youre gay" or "not you. You dont believe in Christ" to potential customers
Its a slippery slope in both directions
Scotus clearly saw that and tried their best to avoid any real decision... at least till the next case variant
I have a very limited experience with gay bars, but they’ve always welcomed me (straight male) with open arms, perhaps even too enthusiastically....
But how does one even determine someone’s sexuality based on a casual interaction? I know it’s sometimes obvious, but that is often not the case.
It’s common for popular nightclubs to charge a higher entry for mles than females, which I honestly find more offensive than any of this gay cake business.
Quote: rxwineYour post button set to "burst mode" gamerfreak? (like camera)
>_<
It happens constantly when I post on mobile
Quote: TomG
It seems you're the only one here with any feelings at all toward the baker and the gay couple. The rest of really don't care that much
So everyone says. All the replies say otherwise. Yes, I am very happy for the baker.
Quote: gamerfreak>_<
It happens constantly when I post on mobile
Man to Doctor- It hurts when I do this.
Doctor: So don't do that.
Quote: petroglyphWho hasn't seen a sign in a restaurant that says, " we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?
You can't refuse someone on religious grounds, but if it is your business you can determine who you want to do business with. That's the reason for going through the crap to have your own business, is to decide for yourself how best to profit from it. You can refuse people just because you want to.
Its just like "at will" employment which means that your employer can terminate you at any time, for any cause -- with or without notice. An employer has every right to walk up to an at-will employee and say, "I don't like that your favorite color is purple. You're fired." There are very few, if any, remedies for you, unless your employer did something to violate your employee rights or broke labor laws.
All states but one (Montana) have adopted laws that protect the employer in an at-will setup. That is, the employer does not have to have good cause to terminate your employment. Unless you signed some sort of employment contract that states you cannot be terminated without good cause, it is assumed that you are an at-will employee.
Although state and federal law prohibits discrimination based on several categories, including race, religion, gender, age, national origin, disability, pregnancy status, and, in many states, sexual orientation or gender identity, good luck proving that was the reason.
Quote: darkozI have seen gay bars refuse entry to straights
Really
I find that pretty shocking and unbelievable
Fake news?
Which bar is that?
Is that official policy. Still doing it to this day?
What does the bar do to determine if somebody is straight or gay?
Does the bouncer have a lie detector test?
I just cant believe a gay bar would refuse entry to a good looking male that nobody knows is straight or gay
Quote: AZDuffmanIn reality, it is driving them nuts.
For sure. Everywhere I look on cable
it's 'Who cares, big deal'" but they are
seething inside. Our constitution upheld
once again. Dang it..
Quote: aceofspadesIts just like "at will" employment which means that your employer can terminate you at any time, for any cause -- with or without notice
You should have been an attorney, Ace,
instead of a TV actor..
Quote: terapinedReally
I find that pretty shocking and unbelievable
Fake news?
Which bar is that?
Is that official policy. Still doing it to this day?
What does the bar do to determine if somebody is straight or gay?
Does the bouncer have a lie detector test?
I just cant believe a gay bar would refuse entry to a good looking male that nobody knows is straight or gay
I said straights
Usually when a male and female arm in arm try to enter. I have seen gay bars refuse entry
There are some women I have dated who want to go to a gay bar. It turns them on. It also makes gay men uncomfortable
Quote: EvenBobFor sure. Everywhere I look on cable it's 'Who cares, big deal'" but they are seething inside. Our constitution upheld once again. Dang it..
You’re accusing people of being liars the one time you’re actually in agreement with them
Quote: darkozI said straights
Usually when a male and female arm in arm try to enter. I have seen gay bars refuse entry
There are some women I have dated who want to go to a gay bar. It turns them on. It also makes gay men uncomfortable
Having worked the door at many a club that had gay nights, I can say I was never told to discriminate against a straight male or straight couple. We would make sure they knew what they were walking into, especially since there were rarely any refunds for almost any reason and I didn't want to hassle with someone forking over $20 to discover they didn't like the crowd.
I also have seen very few gay men get upset about a woman being around, and those sort usually go through life upset about everything.
Woman don't go to gay bars because it turns them on. They go because they won't get hit on all night.
Quote: billryanMan to Doctor- It hurts when I do this.
Doctor: So don't do that.
Listen, Billy, now you've crossed the line..... I took me 4 years to learn that........ And you summarize my education in one sentence?
Quote: EvenBobFor sure. Everywhere I look on cable
it's 'Who cares, big deal'" but they are
seething inside. Our constitution upheld
once again. Dang it..
Has anyone ever seen a punt drive half the crowd crazy like this one? Imagine what they might be like if they ever scored a touchdown?
I'd ask you which part of the Constitution you thought was upheld but that would imply you have a working understanding of it in the first place.
Quote: SOOPOOAnd you summarize my education in one sentence?
Isn't that sentence the whole 3rd year
of medical school distilled down to a
few words?
Quote: EvenBobYou should have been an attorney, Ace,
instead of a TV actor..
Ahhh, what might have been
