RichP
RichP
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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October 5th, 2010 at 8:19:10 AM permalink
To me there are two levels. There are probelm gamblers and compulsive gamblers. Problem gamblers are anyone who lets gambling effect there life in a negative way. There are varying degrees of problem gamblers. I'd say any one who can answer yes to three of those questions has some type of problem.

But the true compulsive gambler is a very sick person and doen't stop till he either destroys himself or hits bottom and stops gambling. The focus for him is that adrenaline rush he gets when he risks more than he can afford to lose. It's not about winning, it's about risk. He or she will keep risking whatever he has of value to get that rush.

I used to spend a lot of my spare time at the track when I was single. There was a time before OTB and iternet betting when you actually had to go there to bet.
There used to be a bus that the track would subsidize. I remember sitting next to a guy that told me he was down to his last $50 and he had a $500 dollar oil bill he needed to pay. He was going to thetrack to win the money. I saw him after the fifth race and asked him how he was doing. He said hew was up $5000 and flashed me a wad of hundreds.

I saw him later on the bus and he was broke, telling me he was going to get some money form some where and come back tomorrow to win it back. Yep he blew the whole bankrol. I stayed away from him whenever I saw him after that.

Rich P
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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October 5th, 2010 at 12:28:18 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

I think you are spot on here.



Even if what JerryLogan says is true to some extent, you have to realize that his reason for saying it is that he is a recreational gambler who is too lazy/unmotivated to learn to play casino games optimally. So therefore, he sneers at "advantage players", and says that they are fooling themselves, as a pretext for his not bothering to learn how to play well.

The truth--and I say this from having lived in Vegas for many years--is that there are quite a few players out there who have, in fact, learned how to play at an advantage, and their presence in the casinos is quite frequent. What I find rather intriguing is that the group of "advantage players" and the group of "compulsive gamblers" do, in fact, intersect. There are APs out there for whom the sheer amount of time spent gambling would, ipso facto, at least in the minds of some, make them "compulsive gamblers". Yet, if someone makes $30/hour (a reasonable earning rate for a $1 denom AP VP player) from their gambling activity, can we truly label them "compulsive"?

As to whether a "compulsive" (anything) is also a "problem" (anything), the only real litmus test is whether the "compulsive" activity is engaged in to the detriment or the exclusion of other, more worthwhile activities. This would also vary from person to person; a retiree who spends 20 hours a week gambling is doubtless different from a mother of three kids who spends the same amount of time gambling. The reason why JerryLogan's assertion is dubious is that he lacks the information to make such value judgments about the people he observes. (As well as the claim that "at least 70%" of the persons he observes are compulsive gamblers. I mean--come now, Jerry.)

In the sense that all time spent recreationally is detrimental, in that we could be doing something productive instead, all gambling is a "problem". In the sense that we gamble a second, third, etc. time in our lives, all gambling is "compulsive"--we feel compelled (in varying degrees) to do it again--because we like it. However, both those evaluations involve value judgments, which I'm reluctant to make about someone I know nothing about.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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October 5th, 2010 at 1:07:58 PM permalink
+1 mkl654321. Well said.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
JerryLogan
JerryLogan
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October 5th, 2010 at 1:40:45 PM permalink
Whenever someone rambles on without saying anything, he's only doing so out of frustration at the common sense he just read from someone he fears might be more open and a little more intelligent than he, but would never just come out and admit as much.

I've read where the mere concept of advantage play (at least in vp), which teaches to play as much as you can in order to approach expected game EV, in and of itself promotes addiction to the machines. A more sensible point is rarely made. Being "advantage-player-sympathetic" changes nothing about it. I also see how easy it is to theorize how these people are making 30 bucks an hour, but even mkl654321's immensely fat black lady friends know how far-fetched that is.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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October 5th, 2010 at 1:51:57 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Yet, if someone makes $30/hour (a reasonable earning rate for a $1 denom AP VP player) from their gambling activity, can we truly label them "compulsive"?

Interesting point.

Sounds to me like they have a part-time job.

Does that make the average person with a F/T job a compulsive employee?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
JerryLogan
JerryLogan
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October 5th, 2010 at 1:58:45 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Interesting point.

Sounds to me like they have a part-time job.

Does that make the average person with a F/T job a compulsive employee?



First you'd have to locate these mysterious players, verify their claim of $30/hr., then ask for an explanation why they are not banned for freely taking casino money at will while their player's card tracks every little move.

Yup, sure sounds real alright!
MarieBicurie
MarieBicurie
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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October 5th, 2010 at 4:05:07 PM permalink
These questions are ridiculously vague.

I made my own questions for my own survey.

ARE YOU A GIRL?

1). Do you like small animals like puppies or kittens?
2). Do you like shopping?
3). Are you easily irritable once a month?
4). Do you like cooking?
5). Do you like bright colors?
6). Do you find yourself spending long amount of time getting ready prior to important occasions?
7). Do you like flowers?
8). Have you ever had a man flirt with you?
9). Do you use a large amount of toilet paper?
10). Are you a bad driver?
11). Have you ever cried while watching a movie?
12). Is the interior of your personal vehicle a pig sty?
13). Are you attracted to men?
14). Have you watched every Bridget Jones movie?
15). Do you like diamonds?
16). Do you hate spiders, bees, or snakes?
17). Are you a nurse?
18). Have you ever had someone open a door for you?
19). Do you use moisturizer?
20). Do you like to tan?

If you answer "Yes" to 7 or more of these questions then you are a girl.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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October 5th, 2010 at 4:27:03 PM permalink
Quote: MarieBicurie

These questions are ridiculously vague.

I made my own questions for my own survey.

ARE YOU A GIRL?
If you answer "Yes" to 7 or more of these questions then you are a girl.



I'm sure these questions will prove to be an invaluable resource for those for whom the answer to "Are You a Girl?" is in doubt.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
MarieBicurie
MarieBicurie
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October 5th, 2010 at 4:37:00 PM permalink
It's completely ridiculous to think that a simple questionaire is a proper diagnosis. Any serious player, no matter what game they play will be lumped into the compulsive category. How can you be a serious player and NOT answer yes to those questions? It's a stupid questionaire. The important questions that should be asked aren't even on there. That's how dumb the survey is.

It should ask... Does your gambling add significant strain to your marital and family life? Have you ever borrowed money against your house to finance gambling? But no, the good doctor asks, do you feel bad after losing? Brilliant!
JerryLogan
JerryLogan
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October 5th, 2010 at 6:29:35 PM permalink
Quote: MarieBicurie

It's completely ridiculous to think that a simple questionaire is a proper diagnosis. Any serious player, no matter what game they play will be lumped into the compulsive category. How can you be a serious player and NOT answer yes to those questions? It's a stupid questionaire. The important questions that should be asked aren't even on there. That's how dumb the survey is.

It should ask... Does your gambling add significant strain to your marital and family life? Have you ever borrowed money against your house to finance gambling? But no, the good doctor asks, do you feel bad after losing? Brilliant!



Take a look at the foreclosure rate in LV brought on by 2nd mortgages to finance gambling habits when house values were through the roof.
Oh! wait a minute, what am I thinking? The more advantage players play at the higher limits, the higher hourly WAGES they'll make!

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