What does beg the question mean?

In the thread ANOTHER CASINO HEIST. $6 MILLION IN POKER CHIPS STOLEN AT WYNN MACAU the following interview of Steve Wynn was posted. Note the interviewer says, ", which begs the question" at about the 16 second point. The way she used the expression is exactly how I thought it should be used -- to present some information, which leads the ordinary audience to want to ask a particular question.

You may have noticed my grammar gets corrected a lot here, and I appreciate it. However, I'm not sure all the corrections are correct, at least in the way everybody except New York Times editors use language. The interview in the OP raises an example. She starts by stating some facts and then says, "..., which does beg the question." Is this the correct usage?

I will say that I think that is the way the vast majority use the expression, including me. I think of it like the audience is all wondering the same thing and is begging somebody to ask the person speaking to answer their question.

I don't recall the details but as I recall when I was corrected, the corrector said it means to ask a question too many times, despite getting answers. You might see this in an interview of a politician dodging a question.

However, the article Begging the Question, Again says it means "to use an argument that assumes as proved the very thing one is trying to prove.”

So this begs the question, what does "beg the question" mean to you? It also begs the question of when is an error in grammar so pervasive that the incorrect usage becomes acceptable? As an example, I still claim to say "Somebody left their phone on the table" is technically improper English, because their is plural and phone is singular. However, I think so many people would say it that way, to avoid the dreaded he/she dilemma, that what was once wrong has become ... acceptable.

Edit: I was wrong.


First time for everything.

Both.

"Begging the question" is a logical fallacy.

People started using those words to mean "raises the question," which is still technically correct from a grammatical standpoint.

So it's a phrase that has two meanings depending on the context.

A tautology based on a rephrased but still unproven premise thus constituting an evasive refusal to address the primary assertion,

"A" is true and therefore "B" is true but "B" is merely a rephrasal of A, not evidence to support it. So "A" remains merely an unsupported assertion which is being avoided.

Its when a homeless guy comes up to you and you know hes gonna ask for money so you say

"Hes gonna beg the question"

Quote: Wizard

As an example, I still claim to say "Somebody left their phone on the table" is technically improper English, because their is plural and phone is singular.

Actually, the possessive pronoun "their" is plural, but the subject is "somebody," which is singular.

That comment reminds me of a hilarious joke from the game Wolfenstein

I agree that the correspondent used the phrase correctly (an obvious question is raised based on the topic and the factors surrounding that topic), but also as others have stated that it can be used in different ways. I use it in the context of someone giving lots of information about some topic, and the obvious next direction in the conversation is easily raised. Example: Casinos are making games faster, with rule changes that make games unfavorable to players, and not giving comps like they used to—which begs the question, why do players accept this?

The first time I heard the phrase used, was used to mean there was something I hadn't considered, and I was wrong.

Quote: TigerWu

Both.

"Begging the question" is a logical fallacy.

People started using those words to mean "raises the question," which is still technically correct from a grammatical standpoint.

So it's a phrase that has two meanings depending on the context.

The first meaning is correct.

People use it the second way should go to prison. A really bad one in Louisiana or some place.

Can we start doing a "grammar rule of the day" or something 'round here? I actually enjoy me some good gram-gram and I don't wanna have to finna hit up the googs just to find some new lit AF grammar.


Eds (short for edit) -- Grammar or whatever you call this.

Quote: RS

Can we start doing a "grammar rule of the day" or something 'round here? I actually enjoy me some good gram-gram and I don't wanna have to finna hit up the googs just to find some new lit AF grammar.


Eds (short for edit) -- Grammar or whatever you call this.

We don't need anymore DonS's on the interwebs.

Since the way "beg the question" is so often used today, an argument can be made that the old meaning should be dropped and the new meaning, "raises the question", accepted.

The problem is the user is probably trying to sound very clever and educated by using the old phrase, instead of just saying "raises the question". So it puts the user in a ridiculous light for anyone knowing what is going on.

I guess if you "beg the question", you're desperate for an answer.

Example: When did you stop beating your wife?

I take it to mean circular reasoning. Advancing a premise that assumes something, then asking a related or cause/effect question that depends on the assumption to be factual.

I think.it's a phrase that has crept into media discussion in its incorrect/modern usage. It would be more correctly phrased "That RAISES the question...", but it's become a catchphrase, so it works its way into the lexicon.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I take it to mean circular reasoning.

Used correctly, almost always starting with "that", it is an *objection* to circular reasoning.

Quote:

Advancing a premise that assumes something, then asking a related or cause/effect question that depends on the assumption to be factual.

I think.it's a phrase that has crept into media discussion in its incorrect/modern usage. It would be more correctly phrased "That RAISES the question...", but it's become a catchphrase, so it works its way into the lexicon.

Ummm, It would be more correctly phrased "That RAISES the question..." Used incorrectly, the speaker usually means "That RAISES the question". Just fixing that for you, as it was you seemed to be backing up on what you just said. Sorry to be man-splaining.

I'll repeat again, the worst thing is that incorrect usage makes the speaker look like such a dork to the very people he is trying to impress.

Quote: odiousgambit

Used correctly, almost always starting with "that", it is an *objection* to circular reasoning.
Ummm, It would be more correctly phrased "That RAISES the question..." Used incorrectly, the speaker usually means "That RAISES the question". Just fixing that for you, as it was you seemed to be backing up on what you just said. Sorry to be man-splaining.

I'll repeat again, the worst thing is that incorrect usage makes the speaker look like such a dork to the very people he is trying to impress.

You said what I meant better than I did. Thanks.

Thank you for all the responses. They are so good I don't have any good cross talk or debate. Just wanted to say "thank you."

Quote: beachbumbabs

I take it to mean circular reasoning. Advancing a premise that assumes something, then asking a related or cause/effect question that depends on the assumption to be factual.

I think.it's a phrase that has crept into media discussion in its incorrect/modern usage. It would be more correctly phrased "That RAISES the question...", but it's become a catchphrase, so it works its way into the lexicon.

This is one of the many problems that arise when media types/ journalists are so often stupid people who think that they are smart.

Quote: Rigondeaux

This is one of the many problems that arise when media types/ journalists are so often stupid people who think that they are smart.

I hear an incredible amount of ignorance from the talking heads, especially local newscasters. I don't think most of them have a brain in their heads. Instead they have an Executive Producer in their ear, while reading what someone else wrote on a teleprompter.

Begging the question is what you do when you want to tell someone a knock-knock joke.

Begging the question is when a chick wants to get married but her boyfriend ain't proposing. She's begging for him to ask the question.

#TwoChains #FiddyCents #DappingOnMyHaters

beg the question (definition)
phrase of beg
1.
(of a fact or action) raise a question or point that has not been dealt with; invite an obvious question.
2.
avoid the question; evade the issue.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=beg+the+question+definition&rlz=1C1CHBD_en-GBCA734CA734&oq=beg+the+question+def&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l4.3384j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

But why use beg here? Is it because the person asking the question is begging the respondent to answer it appropriately? Basically all media questions to Trump ever...lol

Quote: tringlomane

But why use beg here?

How about "beg to differ"? Politely disagree.

Quote: tringlomane

But why use beg here? Is it because the person asking the question is begging the respondent to answer it appropriately? Basically all media questions to Trump ever...lol

Think of the archaic uses of the verb 'beg'....
it was an introductory structure, often flowery.

Such and such presents his compliments and begs to draw your attention to xxxxx,

It was the first item in a letter.

So to 'beg the question' came from presenting the question first and then re-stating a sentence that is really not supportive but more repetitive of that which was first stated.

More after I sober up from a sugar jag.

Quote: 1MatterToMotion

beg the question (definition)
phrase of beg
1.
(of a fact or action) raise a question or point that has not been dealt with; invite an obvious question.
2.
avoid the question; evade the issue.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=beg+the+question+definition&rlz=1C1CHBD_en-GBCA734CA734&oq=beg+the+question+def&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l4.3384j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

wow, an example of google coming up with a bad answer. Only bad in one way, though, I agree google comes up with common usage for today. The bad thing is if you want to impress your audience with how smart you are; you instead accomplish the opposite.

And, ahem, all attempts to decipher the meaning, the original meaning that is, using common sense fail because "beg" had a different meaning at one time as did the word "question" which in the original phrase meant "the matter under discussion" basically.

This also comes up in google searches if you try to go deeper:

"Begs the question is a term that comes from formal logic. It's a translation of the Latin phrase petitio principii, and it's used to mean that someone has made a conclusion based on a premise that lacks support."

Quote: Rigondeaux

The first meaning is correct.

People use it the second way should go to prison. A really bad one in Louisiana or some place.

I disagree, and think it depends on the context like TigerWu mentioned.

I'd have to imagine that the words "begging" and "question" pre-date the common terms we have for logical fallacies. I don't see how any grammatically correct use of those words can be deemed incorrect.

Terms like "red herring" or "non sequitur" are also logical fallacies that are used in different contexts.