SHOOTING at Mandalay festival

Quote: Mission146

Can I kill someone else with the fast food that I may eat?

No. But people mess up their kids pretty good with it.

Quote: RS

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
-Martin Niemoller, possibly

Let me fix that for you...
"First they came for the Semi-autos, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a mass murderer.
Then they came for the shotguns, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a bird hunter.
Then they came for the handguns, and I did not speak out—
Because I lived in a safe neighborhood,
Then they came for me—and there was no gun to scare them away."
-Keeneone-
----------

I agree with earlier posts, Face's comments on this subject are appreciated.
----------

What about bringing insurance into the gun ownership conversation?
----------

Quote: MrV

Our constitution has served us very well, thank you.

It is a bedrock foundation upon which our system of government and liberties have evolved.

Hey, if in fact you have a better idea for a constitution, let's hear it!

I do, I call it basing our laws on things that are the case now rather than trying to apply a largely unchanging document to a changing world.

I also want to point out I’m not anti-guns. Specifically, I favor:

Zero
None
Zilch
Nothing
Nada

In the way of additional restrictions on handguns.

Quote: tringlomane

(NSFW Language)

Comedy gold
That was great :-)

Quote: beachbumbabs

One of the biggest hypocrises in this is that everything else that proves to have an identifiable pattern, we do something to solve it.

And often what we do is wrong.

>>>>Texting while driving has led to a high percentage of
>>>>distracted driver accidents. So now it's mostly illegal.
And in all but one of those states accidents went up because drivers now have to really hide that phone and take their eyes off the road for quite a spell.

>>>>Driving while not using a seat belt led to more
>>>> severe injuries and higher death rate. Now illegal.
Only because it gives cops an excuse to stop everybody.

>>>>Paint with lead in it is now illegal.
With elderly landlords saddled with remediation bills.

>>>>. Lots of ammo. Kits upgrading their efficiency.
What deer hunter needs thirty round magazines?

Quote: terapined

Massi works for foxnews
foxnews is against gun control
Massi's job is to deflect the conservation to blaming the Mandalay Bay so you wont think about gun control
NokTang fell for it. LOL

Yeah "LOL"...you might have noticed I mentioned my inquiry about the comped vs paid for suite before Mr. Massi was on FOX talking about the issue. So in fact my kind friend, he is either reading these posts and following the logical progression to the comp question I posed, or "great minds thing alike". Take your pick mate and have a nice day.

Quote: Mission146

I do, I call it basing our laws on things that are the case now rather than trying to apply a largely unchanging document to a changing world.

Please tell me exactly what portions of the constitution need to be changed; then tell me the terms of the new, replacement terms you want in the constitution.

Quote: Mission146

3.) He used a hammer to break multiple windows.

4.) From those broken windows, he fired down upon a crowd of concert attendees.

5.) Several hundred were injured.


So, in my personal opinion, whether or not the suite was comped is trivial. Comped or non-comped doesn't bring anyone back to life.

Good morning. There remains a question about the "windows". On report of a sledge hammer being found in the room, but only one. Yet to be answered once again is the question as to why the windows were of such a weak strength they could be broken. It seems fairly easy to use thicker something such as transparent aluminum. It is also not clear that all the 500 plus were shot. I would assume many were hurt in the stampede or making escape efforts. Of course all the answers aren't going to bring people back, but, naturally we want to prevent a repeat act or copy cat. Keeping it on our minds a few more days might save lives in the future but it will fade from forefront of life, and lucky for us, life will go on.

Quote: Mission146

I do, I call it basing our laws on things that are the case now rather than trying to apply a largely unchanging document to a changing world.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Constitution has been amended 33 times.

Quote: MrV

Please tell me exactly what portions of the constitution need to be changed; then tell me the terms of the new, replacement terms you want in the constitution.

There will be no Constitution, only laws. No need to be slaves to a document written over 200 years ago. No need to guess what the forefathers meant or would have wanted or speculate on that matter because they are dead and the laws no longer effect them.

Quote: prozema

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Constitution has been amended 33 times.

“Largely unchanging”

That’s one Amendment every how many years?

Quote: NokTang

Yeah "LOL"...you might have noticed I mentioned my inquiry about the comped vs paid for suite before Mr. Massi was on FOX talking about the issue. So in fact my kind friend, he is either reading these posts and following the logical progression to the comp question I posed, or "great minds thing alike". Take your pick mate and have a nice day.

Comped vs paid suite is meaningless
Even if it was comped, in reality they are not giving him a free room
All comped rooms are simply a rebate on estimated losses.

Quote: Mission146

“Largely unchanging”

That’s one Amendment every how many years?

241 years / 33 amendments = 1 every 7.3 years.

Quote: NokTang

Good morning. There remains a question about the "windows". On report of a sledge hammer being found in the room, but only one. Yet to be answered once again is the question as to why the windows were of such a weak strength they could be broken. It seems fairly easy to use thicker something such as transparent aluminum. It is also not clear that all the 500 plus were shot. I would assume many were hurt in the stampede or making escape efforts. Of course all the answers aren't going to bring people back, but, naturally we want to prevent a repeat act or copy cat. Keeping it on our minds a few more days might save lives in the future but it will fade from forefront of life, and lucky for us, life will go on.

What!?

Probably because the windows are sufficient to overcome any naturally occurring environmental elements.

Also, in some jurisdictions, hotels with otherwise inadequate fire safety measures can occasionally get by provider the windows CAN be broken in the event of an emergency for ventilation and/or escape.

I agree not all were shot, in all likelihood.

I think changes to gun laws and security laws regarding venues of a certain maximum occupancy could help.

Quote: prozema

241 years / 33 amendments = 1 every 7.3 years.

Not often enough. Besides, two of those Amendments directly offset one another!

Quote: FleaStiff

>>>>Texting while driving has led to a high percentage of
>>>>distracted driver accidents. So now it's mostly illegal.
And in all but one of those states accidents went up because drivers now have to really hide that phone and take their eyes off the road for quite a spell.

Correlation != Causation, you know that.

While it’s true there’s been an uptick in accident deaths in the last 2-3 years, many attribute it to lower gas prices, which means more miles traveled, which means more accidents. I’m not aware of any evidence that suggests would suggest that making texting while driving illegal is causing more accidents. Honestly that sounds absurd to me.

Quote: FleaStiff

>>>>Driving while not using a seat belt led to more
>>>> severe injuries and higher death rate. Now illegal.
Only because it gives cops an excuse to stop everybody.

Huh? Seatbelts are required because flying bodies tend to be a risk to other people, especially other passengers in the car. Plus there is literally no legitimate reason not to wear one.

Quote: FleaStiff

>>>>Paint with lead in it is now illegal.
With elderly landlords saddled with remediation bills.

As oppose to tenants to unknowingly allowing themselves and their children live in a poisonous environment? News flash, sh1t happens, that’s a risk you take real estate. Not everything bad that happens is the government’s fault.

Quote: Keeneone

Let me fix that for you...
"First they came for the Semi-autos, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a mass murderer.
Then they came for the shotguns, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a bird hunter.
Then they came for the handguns, and I did not speak out—
Because I lived in a safe neighborhood,
Then they came for me—and there was no gun to scare them away."
-Keeneone-
----------

I agree with earlier posts, Face's comments on this subject are appreciated.
----------

What about bringing insurance into the gun ownership conversation?
----------

This is quite good!

Quote: Mission146

Not often enough.

I respect your opinion, but completely disagree.

Quote: prozema

I respect your opinion, but completely disagree.

Likewise, I’m sleepy and probably talking out of my backside anyway. Constitution is fine, probably, Second Amendment not written when these sorts of weapons that are available now existed, though.

Quote: Mission146

Likewise, I’m sleepy and probably talking out of my backside anyway. Constitution is fine, probably, Second Amendment not written when these sorts of weapons that are available now existed, though.

Fun fact... No one ever has had a beef with the 3rd amendment. Hopefully we can all agree that is a keeper.

Quote: terapined

Comped vs paid suite is meaningless
Even if it was comped, in reality they are not giving him a free room
All comped rooms are simply a rebate on estimated losses.

That's a little disjointed but I think parts of it better discussed elsewhere, later. The question of this suite and this killer being comped(or not) remains the issue for this topic/discussion. It's part of the big picture. His Filipino "girlfriend" will do nothing but confuse the authorities and American public. Stick with the facts and follow the money....

Quote: Mission146

Likewise, I’m sleepy and probably talking out of my backside anyway. Constitution is fine, probably, Second Amendment not written when these sorts of weapons that are available now existed, though.

Those who argue for the 2A say that this doesn’t matter. The reason being that the amendment is there to allow a citizen to protect themselves from a tyrannical government, so they need access to the same level of arms to so.

Quote: gamerfreak

Those who argue for the 2A say that this doesn’t matter. The reason being that the amendment is there to allow a citizen to protect themselves from a tyrannical government, so they need access to the same level of arms to so.

I know what they say. It’s also laughable that an individual citizen should imply that, with any kind of weaponry, he would be a match for the coordinated assault of a highly trained army platoon.

Quote: gamerfreak

The reason being that the amendment is there to allow a citizen to protect themselves from a tyrannical government, so they need access to the same level of arms to so.

Glad I stockpiled a few thousand thermonuclear devices to "level" the playing field with the feds.

By thunder, let them just TRY to tyrannize me!

This Second Amendment rocks!

Quote: Rigondeaux

There's a place called the juice standard. 4 locations. They sell juice and stuff.

Today they donate 2x the price of your order to victims and their families.

Oh really? How much do they take out in fees? How much of the total money donated actually gets to the families? I suggest if anyone really wants to donate money to a family they should seek out that family and give them the money in person or at the very least mail them a check.

This seems to be pretty common these days. Every where in the grocery store or all over my webpages I see click here to donate 10 dollars. I would be amazed if 1 dollar out of 10 gets to where it needs to. A long time ago I used to go out and buy decent food and prepare it at home and give it to a homeless shelter. It seemed all the higher ups were getting the cokes and good food and the homeless were getting the scraps as usual. So I started to just hand things out directly to the homeless hand to hand, eye to eye. This way I know where my donation is going.

The only problem is that you have some hustler types taking off hats and going through the line 2 or 3 times but I understand that greed and can live with it.

Quote: Mission146

It’s also laughable that an individual citizen should imply that, with any kind of weaponry, he would be a match for the coordinated assault of a highly trained army platoon.

That would be one of the purposes of the "well regulated militia."

I would like to see CCTV footage of this guy moving all of his bags and stuff to the room. If they don't provide that something is screwy.

Quote: prozema

Fun fact... No one ever has had a beef with the 3rd amendment. Hopefully we can all agree that is a keeper.

I had to look this up. I still don't exactly understand it but it certainly wouldn't be easy to refuse 10 armed soldiers showing up at my doorstep requesting to come in. I mean they are going to take it by force anyway if I refuse I would suspect. I don't think it would matter in time or war or in time of peace if they show up demanding to come in. Most likely I would just ask where they wanted me to post up.

I am all for a total ban on guns... IF and I mean IF it is a worldwide ban and nobody is allowed to have them. As long as the police and army are allowed to have them I want to be able to have them. It would not matter if they were banned most people who wanted them could get them anyway. Think about suppressors... they are very difficult to obtain legally but can be obtained illegally. Heck it really isn't hard to make your own. If you do get caught with a suppressor that isn't legal you face some harsh penalties.

I suppose having guns for me is like most of you gambling on losing machines and having fun. Sure I spend about 50 cents a round basically wasting that money but it sure is fun just like when some of you justify losing at Craps or Megabucks having your fun. I bought 3 guns over a year ago that I haven't even fired one round through... I'm too busy pushing buttons.

Quote: Wizard

Probably just somebody with severe mental illness who acted alone.

The official line has begun to grow more complicated:
"Speaking to reporters on Wednesday afternoon, sheriff Joseph Lombardo said "he had to have some help". . .
"Maybe he's a super guy that was working this all out on his own, but it would be hard for me to believe that," the sheriff said.
"Here's the reason why: Put two and two together. Another residence in Reno with several firearms, electronics and everything else associated with large amounts of ammo, a place in Mesquite, we know that he had a girlfriend. Do you think this is all self-facing? An individual, without talking to somebody, just sequestered among themselves? I mean, come on folks."

It's quite odd that this guy would do this at 64, a guy that is apparently financially secure. Most people that have lived that long have come to terms with their life.

I know it's early to speculate but I wonder how much of a financial hit Mandalay Bay, and for that matter Vegas, will take because of this tragedy. This could have happened anywhere, but we don't equate Vegas with events like this.

Is Mandalay Bay open for business?

I tell you what... if you can get everyone to stop smoking I will gladly trade in my guns. Especially if you can outlaw all smoking in all Casinos so I can play machines without breathing in second hand smoke. How many deaths per year by smoking? How many deaths are related to second hand smoke? Does second hand smoke actually cause deaths? Why do I always get surrounded by smokers at 3 am? Why do the smokers just sit close to me and not even gamble?

I read a stat that says 41,000 deaths per year from second hand smoke! How can they prove that??

500,000 deaths a year from smoking... man they need to ban these things! I mean these smokers are killing non-smokers!!

Yes. There are multiple entrances, although the front door was closed because they had to "clean up" from above.

Who says the hammer was effective in breaking the windows? I don't know the materials used to clad the building, and maybe that was the plan, but he had 26 guns in there. If the hammer didn't break the "glass", he probably just shot it to break it.

I would think it has to be pretty strong, reinforced glass, or not glass at all. They would have to use something strong enough that a random idiot could hit it with their body (or someone else's ), lean on it to look down, maybe embrace against it, whatever. So maybe a hammer swing wouldn't do it.

Everyone should do what I do when things like this happen, be apathetic. I'm not dead, it didn't affect me, the people who were affected are a miniscule amount of people compared to our population, I just don't care and nothing should change.

For noktang.

From the New York Times, Oct. 4.

Subscription required to see the link, so here's the excerpt:

"His methodical style and his skill level allowed him to gamble, and occasionally win, tens of thousands of dollars in one sitting, collecting payouts and hotel perks in big bunches. Last week, as a reward for his loyalty and gambling, Mr. Paddock stayed free of charge on the 32nd floor in one of the elite suites of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, one of his favorite places to play"

EDIT: the whole article is too good not to share. Bob Dancer and Anthony Curtis both are quoted, and someone called him a "math guy". Try this link:

Las Vegas Gunman Chased Gambling’s Payouts and Perks

https://nyti.ms/2xVSHjE

It may not work since you're not me. If so, try googling it by the title and date, above. NYT allows 10 free articles a month for non-subscribers

Quote: Neutrino

This is quite good!

I was being sarcastic in the re-wording of the anti-Nazi (anti-fascist) quote RS posted.

This was/is a serious event in US history. In an effort to be subtle (and maybe a little funny) I have failed and apologize.

Quote: Keeneone

I was being sarcastic in the re-wording of the anti-Nazi (anti-fascist) quote RS posted.

This was/is a serious event in US history. In an effort to be subtle (and maybe a little funny) I have failed and apologize.

something like this happened in Ohio at a university years ago. Not too many people care or think of it these days even though they honor it yearly... Kent I think.

Quote: gamerfreak

Correlation != Causation, you know that.

While it’s true there’s been an uptick in accident deaths in the last 2-3 years, many attribute it to lower gas prices, which means more miles traveled, which means more accidents. I’m not aware of any evidence that suggests would suggest that making texting while driving illegal is causing more accidents. Honestly that sounds absurd to me.


Huh? Seatbelts are required because flying bodies tend to be a risk to other people, especially other passengers in the car. Plus there is literally no legitimate reason not to wear one.


As oppose to tenants to unknowingly allowing themselves and their children live in a poisonous environment? News flash, sh1t happens, that’s a risk you take real estate. Not everything bad that happens is the government’s fault.

And just because correlation != causation.....well I don't know how to describe it, other than "Just because not all rectangles are squares, doesn't mean this rectangle isn't a square."

I think FleaStiff is usually wrong on stuff, but he makes a point that makes sense to me. If something is illegal to do and people are still going to do it anyway, then it can become much more dangerous. I'm fairly neutral on drug laws and whatnot, but in one aspect, I can see how keeping drugs illegal makes us less safe.

I went to a middle school with a uniform and one year the POS that ran it decided he wanted the uniform rules to be much stricter. No one was wearing things innapropiate and if/when they did, they were fixed. And overall it was fine. But once it was changed, we had to wear sweater vests & other stupid sh**. Kids read the new dress code & uniform rules and found all the loop holes. Now you have kids going to school wearing a sweater vest without a shirt underneath. You have girls wearing skirts (or dresses maybe, I don't remember), with a blouse, a vest, and a tie. Kids wearing their shoes on different feet. One boy wear a skirt to school one day. Mind you, all of this was allowed in the rules.

So in an attempt to make the kids look more.....professional or modest or whatever, it completely back fired. Just like how making texting illegal while driving COULD be back-firing by making it more difficult to text by having to hide it.


I remember I had to write an essay in either high school on something controversial or difficult to argue. So my paper was on talking on phone and driving. The research I found (at the time) concluded it's just as unsafe to talk on the phone weather it's in your hand or via bluetooth. This supported my argument that the law of having to be cell-phone hands free wasn't effective -- since the danger doesn't come from having a phone in your hand, but by being distracted while talking to someone.

She disagreed and said if there is no difference, then why should the law be changed to allow you to physically use a phone while driving? I tried explaining to her, if there is no difference in danger, then the law itself is innective at what it's trying to do. Banning talking on the phone whether it be via Bluetooth or in your hand would make more sense, since the evidence points at it being distracting as the dangerous part, not in your hand vs Bluetooth. She disagreed and wouldn't let me write the paper on the subject. Then again, she's an English/writing teacher in a high school and her logic skills aren't too great. I ended up writing a paper on something else with an attempt to really piss her off. I think she just got divorced and wrote how divorce shouldn't be legal, it's evil to put their children through that, etc. Figuratively speaking, she was literally the devil, so it was a fitting essay, I think.



Next time someone says something about global warming, I ask them what makes scientists believe global warming is caused by humans, then they list out all the reasons like CO2 this, greenhouse that, stuff about emissions, etc. can I throw out the blanket statement, "Correlation != causation" and auto-win the argument?

There seems to be basic lack of knowledge regarding psychology of the human mind in this thread and in the world today among citizens and government. If you make something illegal, the human mind, believe it is more inclined to take that risk and do it even more, but if you dont outlaw anything, soon people get bored and just dont care for it. The reason for this is because the rush of taking a risk of not getting caught because 'ooohh' its illegal, lets try and do it, that feeling is gone. Sounds crazy but thats how the human mind works.

Just look at the much lower drinking age in Europe and look at how many more less deaths they have with drinking and driving compared to the US. How can that be? USA makes it illegal until you're 21!! Shouldn't that prevent more deaths? WRONG. Psychology 101. What happens in Europe is these young kids learn that getting hammered becomes boring and they start to become casual drinkers. Whereas in America, because they cannot regularly drink with their friends and maybe it's a one time thing every month or so, they become 'excited' by this because not only are they 'inexperienced', which causes excitement, but because the thrill to do something like that motivates them subconsciously.

If I was a lawmaker I wouldn't outlaw anything and let everyone do as they please. Everything that's causing a problem in society would soon vanish, because the 'thrill' to do illegal things is gone. The more available something is, the more we get tired of it or bored of it. It's the same thing with girls. Be too available with them and they'll soon move on to someone else. In contrary, as soon as you ignore them and just dont care for them and become a 'mystery', they cant stop 'thinking' of you.

Your first two paragraphs were good, ZK. I'm not sure about the third.

Quote: RS

Your first two paragraphs were good, ZK. I'm not sure about the third.

Maybe I exaggerated with the 'not outlawing anything' part lol. Im sure you catch my drift though.

Quote: ZenKinG

Maybe I exaggerated with the 'not outlawing anything' part lol. Im sure you catch my drift though.

It's too much or radical or just not practical or possible. One easy example is you have a wife and children. Someone kidnaps them and rapes and kills them. The perpetrator is caught but nothing is done because anything goes and we have no laws.

So now it's straight cave man style and you kill the perpetrator and basically it's all out mayhem in the streets where the strongest do as they please how they please until the next big dog rises up.

Come to think of it... that is the world we live in anyway. Disregard all above statements.

It probably depends on the thing. I read something about how some place, maybe in Canada, made heroin addiction the most boring thing imaginable. You'd go to some DMV type place every day, get your fix nice and easy. A lot of people quit. I think part of any addiction is the highs and lows, so they take that away.

On the other hand, in countries where you can't have guns like this, nobody really seems to want them and they all just think we're crazy. I don't know what % of Americans want anything beyond a pistol, hunting rifle or shotgun either, or think they should be allowed. If only there were some way to find out.

On the third hand, my understanding that is in Switzerland everybody has a gun but it's all very boring, almost a chore. And I think they do OK.

Also, I don't think it's biologically possible for a girl to get bored with a guy before he gets bored with her.

Quote: Rigondeaux

Also, I don't think it's biologically possible for a girl to get bored with a guy before he gets bored with her.

Tell that to the millions of friend zoned men that cling to women. Go ask them how far they've gotten. And no, im not suggesting to just be an asshole or some 'bad boy' type misleading garbage you always hear. Girls don't like 'bad boys', they just like 'mystery' and 'unpredictability', which the 'bad boy' coincidentally offers.

Quote: beachbumbabs

For noktang.
Last week, as a reward for his loyalty and gambling, Mr. Paddock stayed free of charge on the 32nd floor in one of the elite suites of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, one of his favorite places to play"

Got it, the information. Thanks. (The kindly provided link worked for me.)

Quote: monet0412

It's too much or radical or just not practical or possible. One easy example is you have a wife and children. Someone kidnaps them and rapes and kills them. The perpetrator is caught but nothing is done because anything goes and we have no laws.

So now it's straight cave man style and you kill the perpetrator and basically it's all out mayhem in the streets where the strongest do as they please how they please until the next big dog rises up.

Come to think of it... that is the world we live in anyway. Disregard all above statements.

I get it, i exaggerated with the 'no laws' thing, im sure you understood what I was trying to get at though. It's just basic psychology and how humans are wired. Watch what happens in Nevada now that weed is legal and compare it to when it was illegal. Once something becomes easy to get, the 'thrill' is gone, plain and simple. Most of what is done with drugs or drinking is done for the 'thrill' of part of it is the 'illegal' factor.

Quote: Rigondeaux

Also, I don't think it's biologically possible for a girl to get bored with a guy before he gets bored with her.

In just about any culture, it depends on the money. Who is in control of the money.

Quote: NokTang

In just about any culture, it depends on the money. Who is in control of the money.

The private banking cartels charging interest on paper money created out of thin air that the government can print constitutionally without any interest.

END the FED!

Quote: gamerfreak

Honestly that sounds absurd to me..

That's okay. Come on over to DiversityTomorrow wherein our fearless leader called me a nutcase.