Nathan
Nathan
Joined: Sep 2, 2016
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September 27th, 2017 at 5:04:21 AM permalink
On a side note, this is why ALWAYS playing with a player's card is a MUST. You can show your tax preparer the $2,000 LOSS with the win/loss statement as a way to offset the taxes. On another side note, using the player's card while losing the $2,000 should rack up a lot of points and comps for you. Even a DRY run where every spin was a 0 win is worth 400 points at my local, Gulfstream. That's just saying EVERY spin was a 0 spin loss, which is damn near impossible. In the reality you will get some type of win with at least some of the spins, so you would be getting at least 600 points. So you will be wise to use the player's card for the extra points and the win loss statement. :)
Guy "won" less than his bet and the slot machine had the audacity to tell him he got a big win! SMH! Also, the Nintendo cartridge is so much more important than the Nintendo console. Without the cartridge, the Nintendo console is just a useless box. Also, there is a huge difference between trying to become a more serious poster and just being a plain morbid poster. By the way, I am a woman who happens to like the name Nathaniel a lot and decided to go with Nathan as a shortened abbreviation of Nathaniel. :) Also, someone told me on this board something like, "You used to come across as slow, naive, and immature. Now you come across as kind of experienced, wise, and mature. Were you just pretending to be slow, naive, and immature only to suddenly hit us with how wise you actually are? ;)
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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September 27th, 2017 at 5:13:49 AM permalink
Quote: Nathan

On a side note, this is why ALWAYS playing with a player's card is a MUST. You can show your tax preparer the $2,000 LOSS with the win/loss statement as a way to offset the taxes.



The IRS does not consider casino win/loss reports, by themselves, as adequate documentation during an audit.

You need to keep a contemporaneous log, in great detail, of your play, by machine number, casino, date, time, amount bought in, amount won or lost. Same with tables. Can't just say played bj at Xyz Casino on Jan 1. Which table. What time. Etc.

The casino statements are supporting documentation, as are food or hotel receipts, etc. But the log is the main thing. If you don't keep one and they come after you, it is likely you will not be allowed any losses.

This is the main reason I keep my br in the bank and use an on-site ATM. I have receipts showing amounts withdrawn, dates, times, from the casino itself. According to my accountant, this is the best possible documentation. It also helps me not bet the mortgage.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
Joeman
Joeman
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
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September 27th, 2017 at 6:26:31 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

The casino statements are supporting documentation, as are food or hotel receipts, etc. But the log is the main thing. If you don't keep one and they come after you, it is likely you will not be allowed any losses.

I've heard this here before, but is there really that much liability for the recreational gambler? I've been playing in casinos for some 25 years, and never received a W-2G until this past year. I've never kept a log; I just gave my W-2's and win-loss statements to my accountant, and she seemed to think that was good enough.

Honestly, does the IRS expect me to have kept meticulous records each of those 25 years on the off chance that I would have to file a W-2G at some point? (Don't answer that! :) ) If it came down to it, I'm sure I could produce bank & travel statements showing where I went & what I spent. I'm really not too concerned about an audit, though. But, I am neither an accountant nor a lawyer. Perhaps it is a false sense of security.

Quote:

This is the main reason I keep my br in the bank and use an on-site ATM. I have receipts showing amounts withdrawn, dates, times, from the casino itself. According to my accountant, this is the best possible documentation. It also helps me not bet the mortgage.

That is a great idea, Babs! Maybe I'll have to adopt this if I keep hitting those big wins! :)
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
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September 27th, 2017 at 7:24:11 AM permalink
Quote: Nathan

Let's say you get a handpay on a lucky spin and win like $2,000 get paod by an attendant and blow it all back into tight machines. Do you still have to pay taxes? I mean you didn't LEAVE with any money as you lost it right back. I am still confused on stuff like that.

just write off that $2000 on line 28 of Schedule A on your 1040 when you file your taxes.
I heard you can write off up to $15k in gambling loses to offset $15k in w2-g w/o detailed documentation of the loses.
low chances of the IRS auditing you for that low amount because it costs the IRS $15k to audit you.

I asked a similar question in this forum a couple of months ago for some radio show having a tax lawyer on and wanted questions.
don't know if the radio show ever went off
Last edited by: 100xOdds on Sep 27, 2017
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
BTLWI
BTLWI
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September 27th, 2017 at 11:38:13 AM permalink
Players card doesn't mean squat. I was in the VIP lounge last month and asked the host how many August W2-G's I had for the upcoming drawing. She said 19. She then said, wow you're up on slots $10,000 for this month and $50,000 for the year, lucky guy! (Nobody was around or she wouldn't have said that - she's been at the desk for years). Anyway that number is inaccurate because my card was in on more than my fair share of the $10,000 must hit machines when they went off during group play. Sometimes my share was $5000, sometimes $3300 but my players card thinks it's $10,000. One of the group guy is 0/3 on having his card in when it hits, his card probably reflects a loss for the year even though he profited about $5-6K on the plays.

I keep daily gambling logs similar to what's shown on that linked website but with a few more details. And have tons of cash withdrawal slips from the cashier - no charge for top tier card level and can get over your daily ATM limit using your debit card and pin.
Hullabaloo
Hullabaloo
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September 27th, 2017 at 3:46:56 PM permalink
I wouldn't count too much on a players club statement; Most of mine that I've looked at over the years were pretty far off. It might make for good corroborating evidence, but could be rejected if that's the only thing you have. And if you're only talking a few K in wins then the odds of being audited for that are pretty close to nil.

I think the date/time/location/machine # thing is ridiculous although I know that's the standard the IRS has been pushing for years. Hell, in a couple of hours I can do an entire ring around the 4 Queens Palace bar. I'm supposed to write down every machine number when there can be 100's every day? I doubt it would ever come to this, but I bet if you appeared before a judge he'd agree that's kind of excessive. All they really need to see is some kind of accounting that shows wins and losses.

If I'm going to a single local casino I know what I go in with, and then what I go out with. Then I log date, place, starting funds, ending funds and profit/loss in a gambling log.

If I'm somewhere with multiple casino's every time I leave my hotel room I take note of what I'm starting with, then when I return I write what casino's I was in, what I ended up with, and the profit/loss and put it in my log.

I'm not saying my way will work, but I suspect it would be fine.

BTW, I believe there are apps for smart phones for gambling logs.
GWAE
GWAE
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September 27th, 2017 at 3:48:56 PM permalink
Quote: Nathan

The thing I find confusing is still having to pay taxes on handpay money that ended up being LOST. You are DOWN if you put the $2,000 right back into tight machines. If I ran the IRS I would only tax on money that the gambler LEFT with not money he lost. Losing money and still having to pay taxes on lost money is really messed up.



You think that is messed up?

Here is what happened to me years ago. I bring 1k with me. I hit a 2k vp and a 1200 slot. Before the end of the night I lose it all. At the end of the year I cant itemize because my only deductions are basically my gambling losses only up to my w2g amount. Even though for the year I was down 5k you can only deduct your claimed winnings. So now I am paying approx $800 in taxes in addition to that 1k I lost that night. Plus the government was able to tax the casino at 50% of my loss.

In this scenario I lost 1800, casino wins 500, and the government wins 1300.
#freevarmenti
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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September 27th, 2017 at 3:59:43 PM permalink
Most gamblers are paying well over a 100% tax rate!
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Nathan
Nathan
Joined: Sep 2, 2016
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September 27th, 2017 at 5:21:39 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

You think that is messed up?

Here is what happened to me years ago. I bring 1k with me. I hit a 2k vp and a 1200 slot. Before the end of the night I lose it all. At the end of the year I cant itemize because my only deductions are basically my gambling losses only up to my w2g amount. Even though for the year I was down 5k you can only deduct your claimed winnings. So now I am paying approx $800 in taxes in addition to that 1k I lost that night. Plus the government was able to tax the casino at 50% of my loss.

In this scenario I lost 1800, casino wins 500, and the government wins 1300.



Oh crap! That's really disgusting! You have my sympathizing condolences.
Guy "won" less than his bet and the slot machine had the audacity to tell him he got a big win! SMH! Also, the Nintendo cartridge is so much more important than the Nintendo console. Without the cartridge, the Nintendo console is just a useless box. Also, there is a huge difference between trying to become a more serious poster and just being a plain morbid poster. By the way, I am a woman who happens to like the name Nathaniel a lot and decided to go with Nathan as a shortened abbreviation of Nathaniel. :) Also, someone told me on this board something like, "You used to come across as slow, naive, and immature. Now you come across as kind of experienced, wise, and mature. Were you just pretending to be slow, naive, and immature only to suddenly hit us with how wise you actually are? ;)

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