4 year math degree guy vs. 15 years experienced gambler
Quote: Keyser1. Each roulette table doesn't come with three wheels. I'm not saying you're lying, just that there are a lot of naive pit bosses that would say something like that to a dealer.
2. Casinos don't change them once a week. The most you will see is every two weeks (very very rare). A few will rotate at 30 days, and most casinos will only do so once a quarter or year, if at all. The reason is because they can get damaged or even dropped while moving the head and the bowl. Some casinos have stopped moving the wheels because they cause too much damage to them.
3. Dealers are not told when wheels are moved, and they are not told what type of maintenance is done to them. At the most, they are told that a wheel has been oiled if the dealers complain about it stopping too often.
-Keyser
WOW! So you're saying is MKL just made up everything he said. Interesting..
Quote: mkl654321One thing that may be confusing you is that the wheel was mounted independently of the wooden bowl. The wheel itself was changed, and the interior surface cleaned.
Yes, they are two parts, but rotors are to be paired with and kept with the same bowl. There is a serial number on both to prevent mixing.
What type of wheel were they? Meaning, who was the manufacturer?
Dealers aren't supposed to be told when wheels are moved.
Quote: mkl654321
And dealers are indeed told when the wheels are moved,
That certainly makes it nice for anyone on the outside who needs such information. Does the pit crew dress in clown suits? That would explain it.
Quote: KeyserYes, they are two parts, but rotors are to be paired with and kept with the same bowl. There is a serial number on both to prevent mixing.
What type of wheel were they? Meaning, who was the manufacturer?
Dealers aren't supposed to be told when wheels are moved.
That long ago, I have absolutely no idea who made the wheel(s). This was a cheapo casino (I'm not going to identify it), and they had, as far as I could tell, only the one bowl, or only used one. When the rotor was removed, there certainly was a goodly amount of crud underneath. Maybe that's why they changed it so often.
Quote: EvenBobThat certainly makes it nice for anyone on the outside who needs such information. Does the pit crew dress in clown suits? That would explain it.
Don't be a foolhard, Bob. Whenever the wheels are exchanged, there will likely be a dealer working the game, or at least some dealers working that pit. It would be pretty hard to conceal.
In the case of the place where I worked, I was told to rack up the chips and give them to security, brush down the felt, and then go on break. So I never saw the process of re-installation of the replacement wheel.
Since the floormen knew that the public knowing that the wheel (rotor) had been changed wouldn't affect the house advantage, they didn't have any reason to "surreptitiously" make the change. I don't see how they could do it in secret anyway, aside from why they would ever want to.
Quote: mkl654321
Since the floormen knew that the public knowing that the wheel (rotor) had been changed wouldn't affect the house advantage,
You think thats the reason casinos don't tell dealers when they change, because of the HE? Clown suits, thats what I thought. Also, the word 'foolhard' doesn't exist.
Quote: EvenBobYou think thats the reason casinos don't tell dealers when they change, because of the HE? Clown suits, thats what I thought. Also, the word 'foolhard' doesn't exist.
Yes, it does exist. I made it up. I've coined over three dozen words, actually. Deal with it.
And the casinos DO tell dealers when they change--the dealers who are working the game, and see the wheel being changed! It isn't done under a Cone of Silence, or a big black shroud.
By the way, if you could read for content, you would understand that the sentence you just quoted said that the casino DOESN'T consider the house edge to be changed when they change the wheel.
Quote: mkl654321Yes, it does exist. I made it up. I've coined over three dozen words, actually. Deal with it.
When my kids were little, they made up words too. Don't worry, you'll grow out of it..
Quote: EvenBobWhen my kids were little, they made up words too. Don't worry, you'll grow out of it..
Guess what, Bob. Words are coined EVERY DAY. By adults. Surely you realize that the English dictionary has about three times as many entries as it did two centuries ago? So I doubt that I ever WILL "grow out of it", as you put it. As I said, deal with it.
Just because I keep showing you up and proving what a foolhard you are is no reason for you to be mad at me :)
Edit: And apparently, I didn't even invent the word:
http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/The_20Foolhard_20(fh)
Quote: mkl654321Guess what, Bob. Words are coined EVERY DAY.
As I said, most people grow out of it. There are far too many words anyway, why would we need more. I can call you a 'trippleberry' and a 'funkdowser', so what. Dumb..
Quote: IbeatyouracesI am not in denial and my bankroll sure proves this. But I do like Mrjjj's signature. Now if us AP's can convince the casino bosses this, we wont be hassled any longer.
MrJJJ's position is that AP doesn't exist for Roulette (and he only talks about roulette). I would suggest that this is probably true.
I am yet to be convinced that AP and the gambler's fallacy have anything in common (flase AP on roulette due to the wheel bias would be an example of the inverse Gambler's fallacy if true, and appears to be the basis of MrJJJ's roulette methods).
If MrJJJ contends that AP does exist ANYWHERE in a casino, then I don't agree with that claim at all. I can think of one player on this board alone who uses a form (or suggests it at least as potential way of gaining an advantage) of advantage play on craps (not dice setting).
Quote: IbeatyouracesNo, I think he believes there isnt any such thing as an AP period, well, except for him at the roulette tables. I am for anyone who can use their knowledge of any particular game or games and go into a casino and win on a consistant basis. I truely believe that the majority of people that go and gamble are not there for fun but are there to try and make themselves some money. I have said elsewhere, if I want to play a particular game that cannot be beaten, I will play it at home on the computer for free.
Actually, what jjj is doing is self-justifying his mental laziness; he doesn't want to expend the effort to learn to play any casino game correctly, so he does a "sour grapes" and tries to convince himself that such effort would be useless anyway. Then he picks one of the worst games in the casino (roulette), and tries to convince himself that he can beat it. Which would be fine if he kept all this to himself. But as we know all too well, he doesn't. The worst part is that when anyone questions his assertions, he responds thusly: HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK.
I suppose it's easier to delude yourself into thinking you can win at an unbeatable game than to learn how to win at a game than CAN be beaten, but I, personally, and most of the posters here, would rather win than lose, So we expend the necessary effort.
@mkl >> At least I dont bulls**t my way through a forum. At least I dont LIE to other members here. In TODAYS casinos, you are not going to find a bias wheel. As far as watching and looking for a 'certain way' the dealer is spinning (??), lay down your crackpipe mkl. lol You need lots of help mkl. Either your meds need to be adjusted or you need to start some form of therapy. I'm not sure if you have insurance or not, you might have to pay out of pocket *BUT* it would be VERY useful for a guy like yourself. Good luck bro, we are all here for you if you need us. Keep chasing your BS roulette dreams. KenQuote: mkl654321Actually, what jjj is doing is self-justifying his mental laziness; he doesn't want to expend the effort to learn to play any casino game correctly, so he does a "sour grapes" and tries to convince himself that such effort would be useless anyway. Then he picks one of the worst games in the casino (roulette), and tries to convince himself that he can beat it. Which would be fine if he kept all this to himself. But as we know all too well, he doesn't. The worst part is that when anyone questions his assertions, he responds thusly: HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK.
I suppose it's easier to delude yourself into thinking you can win at an unbeatable game than to learn how to win at a game than CAN be beaten, but I, personally, and most of the posters here, would rather win than lose, So we expend the necessary effort.
MKL has a good point. You're mentally lazy Mr. J.
You pick one of the worst games in the casino and try to convince yourself that you can beat it. Which would be fine if you kept all this to yourself.
"The worst part is that when anyone questions his assertions, he responds thusly: HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK."-MKL
Well said MKL.
-Keyser
Dont be so jealous Keyser (aka Herb from VLS & aka Snowman from GG), put the bottle down Keyser. All your SEARCHES in one year can not equal my NET for three months of play. Sucks to be you bro. KenQuote: KeyserI agree, you're not going to find a biased wheel and the game of roulette can't be beaten.
MKL has a good point. You're mentally lazy Mr. J.
You pick one of the worst games in the casino and try to convince yourself that you can beat it. Which would be fine if you kept all this to yourself.
"The worst part is that when anyone questions his assertions, he responds thusly: HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK."-MKL
Well said MKL.
-Keyser
Quote: KeyserI agree, you're not going to find a biased wheel and the game of roulette can't be beaten.
MKL has a good point. You're mentally lazy Mr. J.
You pick one of the worst games in the casino and try to convince yourself that you can beat it. Which would be fine if you kept all this to yourself.
"The worst part is that when anyone questions his assertions, he responds thusly: HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK."-MKL
Well said MKL.
-Keyser
Everybody knows roulette can't be beaten. Silly to even try. I'm looking for the Achilles Heel of the Big Wheel, thats what my moneys on..
Quote: thecesspitIf MrJJJ contends that AP does exist ANYWHERE in a casino, then I don't agree with that claim at all. I can think of one player on this board alone who uses a form (or suggests it at least as potential way of gaining an advantage) of advantage play on craps (not dice setting).
Of course - if you buy other players' don't points you have a rather sizeable edge over the casino. I followed a guy around downtown LV once for hours doing this. I told him, "anytime you want to pull your no 6 or no 8 off the table, sell it to me instead." He did, and I made lots of money. The house typically hates this, because procedure doesn't change - the dealers can't move chips from one spot to another. So you have to trust the guy you're buying from. He can take your buyout and then if the bet wins, pocket the winnings too...
And of course advantage players exist. It's silly to assert they don't, for otherwise why would a casino ever ban or back-off anyone? Heck, sports betting is practically built for advantage play. You don't need to be better than a fixed probability distribution, you just need to be better than the bookie.
...Ok, can someone be an advantage player without the BS from 1923? Meaning, without DS, tilted wheels etc.? FYI, I might add more to this list. KenQuote: MathExtremistOf course - if you buy other players' don't points you have a rather sizeable edge over the casino. I followed a guy around downtown LV once for hours doing this. I told him, "anytime you want to pull your no 6 or no 8 off the table, sell it to me instead." He did, and I made lots of money. The house typically hates this, because procedure doesn't change - the dealers can't move chips from one spot to another. So you have to trust the guy you're buying from. He can take your buyout and then if the bet wins, pocket the winnings too...
And of course advantage players exist. It's silly to assert they don't, for otherwise why would a casino ever ban or back-off anyone? Heck, sports betting is practically built for advantage play. You don't need to be better than a fixed probability distribution, you just need to be better than the bookie.
Quote: TriplellI'm going to say the mathematician. He doesn't have 15 years of losing money under his belt, only 4 ;)
LOL!!! Completely agree. The mathematician would walk away from the game as soon as s/he saw the Blackjack Switch game next to it.
Quote: mrjjj"I don't know any roulette players who consistently play with an edge over the casino" >>> Tell that to Keyser (aka Herb from VLS & aka Snowman from GG) Ken
I second that.
All these guys going around saying they can beat roulette.
The most ridiculous thing I ever heard.
Any casino with a modern wheel should welcome any and all action they can muster. Bias play, VB: It's all urban legend.
Casinos that are paranoid about people writing down numbers and betting late are just plain stupid.
Quote: mrjjj"I don't know any roulette players who consistently play with an edge over the casino" >>> Tell that to Keyser (aka Herb from VLS & aka Snowman from GG) Ken
I think he already has MrJJJ for some other site and MrJ from yet another site.
...I agree, MOST know this already. I am mr j, mr jj, mr jjj and kj smooth at GG (I use to be mr j there). The difference between me and some others, I dont try and HIDE, pretending to be someone else. KenQuote: thecesspitI think he already has MrJJJ for some other site and MrJ from yet another site.
Quote: Scotty81I second that.
All these guys going around saying they can beat roulette.
The most ridiculous thing I ever heard.
Any casino with a modern wheel should welcome any and all action they can muster. Bias play, VB: It's all urban legend.
Casinos that are paranoid about people writing down numbers and betting late are just plain stupid.
I completely agree as well. Urban legend.
Hello, Ritz!
Quote: MrVWhat about roulette computers / lasers?
Hello, Ritz!
Roulette computers do work, but not as well as people think they do - especially on the newer low profile wheels that are designed to randomized the scatter. I guess we could get into a whole discussion of the pros/cons of roulette computers and why someone would be out of their mind to pursue using one.
The biggest drawback to using a computer in Vegas is that it will land you 10 years in the state pen. They don't take too kindly to device assisted play anywhere in North America, and espcially in Vegas.
If you are considering using a computer, good luck. But, don't go whining to anyone after your bankroll is wiped out and/or your equipment is conficated and you find yourself being held by the local authorities.
Quote: mrjjj...I agree, MOST know this already. I am mr j, mr jj, mr jjj and kj smooth at GG (I use to be mr j there). The difference between me and some others, I dont try and HIDE, pretending to be someone else. Ken
I'm not sure that multiple user names is a case of anyone hiding... it's just a case of whatever name comes to mind at the time (says TheCesspit/Odinsday/Barbie/VanGalian).
But the success the team had at the Ritz is about as clear a proof as one can have that they can work.
Hello, advantage play.
... I highly disagree but...whatever. Its mainly a choice of 'starting fresh' for some. KenQuote: thecesspitI'm not sure that multiple user names is a case of anyone hiding... it's just a case of whatever name comes to mind at the time (says TheCesspit/Odinsday/Barbie/VanGalian).
Did it ever occur to you that maybe most people really do think you're full of blarney, and that it's not just the same person posting as every forum member here?
-Keyser
....@Keyser (aka Herb from VLS & aka Snowman from GG) ....or, could it be that posters do not like you in general? You are out to start trouble, we know this already sir. People dont like you because you TRY to make some posters HATE other posters. Why do you do this? Why so mad at the world cupcake? KenQuote: KeyserMr. Jjj.,
Did it ever occur to you that maybe most people really do think you're full of blarney, and that it's not just the same person posting as every forum member here?
-Keyser
