Trump's Final 100 days
Quote: IbeatyouracesBecause you've been suckered into believing it.
No different than the billions suckered into believing in a religion.
Are you really that misguided?
One has nothing to do with the other.
Quote: BozIf you think this good for business you would have to be an idiot. And we both know your not an idiot when it comes to understanding how to build and grow a business. If alienating even 10% of customers makes financial sense everyone would do it. The NFL can't win here, spinning it any other way is comical.
And the myopia continues.
Tell me something, how does Trump win here? He already had the goober crowd. What does he gain by attacking the NFL?
We have a real crisis with health care, a phony crisis with North Korea, so he goes and picks a fight with pro sports? As Freud might say- sometimes the maniac throwing pooh at people is simply what he appears to be.
Quote: HomelessnycAre you really that misguided?
One has nothing to do with the other.
Bull$h!t!!!
I suppose, since you have 'nyc' in your name, that you still believe that a group of arabs knocked down those two buildings. I've got news for you, they didn't!! Only suckers believe that BS the govt tells them. I DON'T!
All the NFL owners should make a pact and fire all their players who take a knee during the national anthem, since all their contracts likely have a clause allowing them to do that (actions on/off field poorly reflect their team....something like that).
Trump is 100% right in what he said.
Quote: RSOh yeah, here's a great way to unite our country, we'll be complete dumb-a**es and take a knee during the national anthem!
N. korea they shoot people for disagreeing with the state on anything.
That's how you can tell it's still the US.
Quote: RSOh yeah, here's a great way to unite our country, we'll be complete dumb-a**es and take a knee during the national anthem!
All the NFL owners should make a pact and fire all their players who take a knee during the national anthem, since all their contracts likely have a clause allowing them to do that (actions on/off field poorly reflect their team....something like that).
Trump is 100% right in what he said.
NFL ratings are down because there is no parity in the league and very few good teams. It's hard to build a fan base when your team constantly is in the cellar year after year. The drop in ratings has nothing to do with the "controversy" on the field. It is the quality of the product that is suffering as well as the sensitivity to the concussion issues. Alot of people will no longer watch people concussing themselves into permanent brain damage.
The first amendment guarantees the right of people to do whatever the hell they want to when the national anthem is placed. The anthem was introduced by a marching band at a baseball game during the 2nd world war and it caught on. Now it has become a symbol of "patriotism". There is no law that says that we must be patriotic and stand at attention while we hear the Star Spangled Banner or Oh Canada or God Save the Queen or Humat-ad-Dayar. It is your freedom of expression that allows you to follow instructions and take off your hat and stand, go take a pee, go buy a hot dog and a beer, phone a friend, or, heaven forbid, raise the middle finger salute to that nation when you feel that those ideals and what it claim to represent doesn't resonate with your own experience.
In my opinion, Trump should not be getting in the way of people exercising their right to freedom of expression. If professional athletes want to take a knee during the anthem as their exercising their free speech rights, then let them. If ticket sales are reduced and ratings decrease because of these actions, then the owners can and should probably considers people's political views when signing people to contracts.
Of course, it doesn't help when the president behaves like a white supremacist and fails to understand what is at the heart of people protesting. Trump should understand the first amendment, what it stands for, and just for crying out loud, act like a president (not the modern president he thinks he is).
He really should try to sleep and golf more. That would be the best for the country.
I guess he only meant that for white protesters.
Quote: billryanAnd the myopia continues.
Tell me something, how does Trump win here? He already had the goober crowd. What does he gain by attacking the NFL?
We have a real crisis with health care, a phony crisis with North Korea, so he goes and picks a fight with pro sports? As Freud might say- sometimes the maniac throwing pooh at people is simply what he appears to be.
Who said Trump gains from this? I only said there are losers, and not sure how you can argue with that. The owners lose because they have to deal with an issue that they really want to go away. The players lose because there are alienating some segment of their fans. When was the last time the Patriots were booed at home by their own fans BEFORE the game? Sorry to inform you but not everyone who disagrees with the kneeling is a racist asshole. They are hard working Americans who look to the NFL as a diversion from their everyday hard working lives. And if a segment of the fans stop watching, revenue decreases along with players salaries. Simple business math, didn't they learn that in college?
Quote: gamerfreak
I guess he only meant that for white protesters.
Always race to you and your type isn't it? Hell the jackass who started this nonsense isn't even considered black to many on his side.
https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=nfl+boycott&ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Esearch
And now you have a rapper telling people to boycott for the other reasons, the league isn't doing enough for Kap.
https://mobile.twitter.com/i/moments/911985392324358144
There are no easy answers for the owners but if you think this isnt going to hurt revenue you are blinded by your political views.
Quote: BozQuote: gamerfreak
I guess he only meant that for white protesters.
Always race to you and your type isn't it? Hell the jackass who started this nonsense isn't even considered black to many on his side.
You're always so quick to discount the race aspect. In this case, race has a whole hell of a lot to do with the "outrage" on the right.
The same dumbasses who *actually* disrespect the flag by worshiping the Confederate flag just can't handle black players taking a knee. The outrage!!!! Gimme a break.
Quote: BozQuote: gamerfreak
I guess he only meant that for white protesters.
Always race to you and your type isn't it? Hell the jackass who started this nonsense isn't even considered black to many on his side.
He made that statement in late January. And the said the white nationalist protesters in Charlottesville were fine people.
But now hes calling for these NFL players to be fired for peacefully protesting. Why is this a problem for him now? Can you offer a better explanation?
Anyone want to guess how many they found? They did find some people who went to the Viking game to take a knee outside the game during the anthem.
Quote: gamerfreakAnd the said the white nationalist protesters in Charlottesville were fine people.
No, he didn't.
S. Code ⺠Title 36 ⺠Subtitle I ⺠Part A ⺠Chapter 3 ⺠§ 301
36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem
(a)Designation.â
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.âDuring a rendition of the national anthemâ
(1) when the flag is displayedâ
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301
Restaurants are known for hiring illegals. Maybe he'll call for a boycott on them. Next time you go to eat, check out the kitchen. If the employees don't look right, go elsewhere.
Quote: boymimboNFL ratings are down because there is no parity in the league and very few good teams. It's hard to build a fan base when your team constantly is in the cellar year after year. The drop in ratings has nothing to do with the "controversy" on the field. It is the quality of the product that is suffering as well as the sensitivity to the concussion issues. Alot of people will no longer watch people concussing themselves into permanent brain damage.
The first amendment guarantees the right of people to do whatever the hell they want to when the national anthem is placed. The anthem was introduced by a marching band at a baseball game during the 2nd world war and it caught on. Now it has become a symbol of "patriotism". There is no law that says that we must be patriotic and stand at attention while we hear the Star Spangled Banner or Oh Canada or God Save the Queen or Humat-ad-Dayar. It is your freedom of expression that allows you to follow instructions and take off your hat and stand, go take a pee, go buy a hot dog and a beer, phone a friend, or, heaven forbid, raise the middle finger salute to that nation when you feel that those ideals and what it claim to represent doesn't resonate with your own experience.
In my opinion, Trump should not be getting in the way of people exercising their right to freedom of expression. If professional athletes want to take a knee during the anthem as their exercising their free speech rights, then let them. If ticket sales are reduced and ratings decrease because of these actions, then the owners can and should probably considers people's political views when signing people to contracts.
Of course, it doesn't help when the president behaves like a white supremacist and fails to understand what is at the heart of people protesting. Trump should understand the first amendment, what it stands for, and just for crying out loud, act like a president (not the modern president he thinks he is).
He really should try to sleep and golf more. That would be the best for the country.
I agree with the concussion stuff in that the NFL should do everything they can to keep players safe and I disagree with Trump on that aspect.
I don't think Trump or anyone else is saying kneeling (kneeing?) during the national anthem should be or is a crime. We're saying they should show their respect. I think it's disgusting the NFL is putting up with this nonsense and ultimately it will be to their detriment, unless something is changed.
Quote: MaxPenIt's really pretty simple.
S. Code â�ú Title 36 â�ú Subtitle I â�ú Part A â�ú Chapter 3 â�ú �ç 301
36 U.S. Code �ç 301 - National anthem
(a)Designation.�
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.�During a rendition of the national anthem�
(1) when the flag is displayed�
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301
Key word being SHOULD.
Quote: RSI agree with the concussion stuff in that the NFL should do everything they can to keep players safe and I disagree with Trump on that aspect.
I don't think Trump or anyone else is saying kneeling (kneeing?) during the national anthem should be or is a crime. We're saying they should show their respect. I think it's disgusting the NFL is putting up with this nonsense and ultimately it will be to their detriment, unless something is changed.
Out of curiosity, has this made any of you stop betting on games ?
Quote: billryanKey word being SHOULD.
Yep it's a free country. You're not going to the gulag for disrespecting the anthem. But there is established protocol and it is simply disrespectful to not follow it. Therefore Trump is right and the NFL can deal with the aftershock.
Quote: RSNo, he didn't.
âBut you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.â
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/full-text-trump-comments-white-supremacists-alt-left-transcript-241662
I haven't watched that kind of television much so I don't know? Are any/many of the kneelers white guys? If just black people are kneeling isn't that racist?Quote: ams288You're always so quick to discount the race aspect. In this case, race has a whole hell of a lot to do with the "outrage" on the right.
If any of these kneelers get kicked out of the NFL or fired, do you think that will be because the owners are racists?
Quote: billryanOut of curiosity, has this made any of you stop betting on games ?
No, I'm still betting on games.
But when I see players taking a knee during the national anthem I am definitely less interested in watching the game or supporting them. I just saw a thing on the news of one NFL player from the Steelers (I think?) who stood on the field during the national anthem, right hand on his heart, paying his respects, while the rest of the team was in the locker room. At least that's what was reported and I don't have all the details, so if something's wrong there, let me know.
Nothing against the rest of his team who stayed in the locker room as I believe that was part of the manager's decision (or owner or whoever makes that type of decision) to keep the players in the locker room so they don't cause a stir by kneeing (kneeling? wtf? which is it???) during the national anthem.
Just because someone can legally do something, it doesn't mean we should approve of it or applaud people for being dumb***es.
Quote: gamerfreak�But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.�
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/full-text-trump-comments-white-supremacists-alt-left-transcript-241662
That is no synonymous with "white nationalists are [very] fine people".
I can say there are spammers on this forum, but that doesn't mean I'm calling you a spammer.
I can say there are crooked politicians in DC, that doesn't mean I'm saying every politician in DC is crooked.
I can say there are honest politicians in DC, that doesn't mean I'm saying every politician in DC is honest.
All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.
Those kneeling during the national anthem, are spitting in the face of all those who have lost loved ones in the service of the country. No matter why they say they are doing it. And the team owners are just as complicit by allowing them to do it.
Quote: MaxPenIt's really pretty simple.
Yes, it is. Note the words SHOULD. It does not have the same gravitas as the first amendment.
Also, in the code, that we routinely ignore, in the Code
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8
Quote: The FLAG!
...
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
...
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
...
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
...
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
Most of these are ignored as well.
Quote: MaxPenIf anyone has been to a military funeral, LEO's or a Fireman's. Every casket is draped in the flag, the national anthem is played, then the folded flag is presented to the loved ones of the deceased. That flag is a physical representation of their sacrifice. And every time they hear the national anthem they are always thinking back to that funeral and their lost loved one.
Those kneeling during the national anthem, are spitting in the face of all those who have lost loved ones in the service of the country. No matter why they say they are doing it. And the team owners are just as complicit by allowing them to do it.
Some people (including Trump) undoubtedly feel that way. Some people also feel the same way that I do about the national anthem: patriotic jingoism. Different people feel the same way about a cross, the star of David, the Koran, yet we feel perfectly fine to pee over those beliefs as well if it suits our own agenda.
The first amendment is just that - freedom of expression. These players have elected to take a knee. It is a first amendment election to play the national anthem at the beginning of sporting events -- there is no law or code that says it must be played: it's a decision that the owners have collectively made.
Ah, to be cynical -- it's the almighty buck anyway. Balance the loss of fans who turn the game off for the players' actions versus the gain of fans who get more respect for players for doing what they did. As someone earlier said, people who came to the game didn't leave. The owners will look at this, shrug their shoulders and say, "Meh" and continue to count their money.
It is far more likely that the owners, like most leaders of the world, wish that Trump would stop his narcissistic rallies, turn off his twitter account, and keep working on #MAGA, silently.
Quote: MaxPenCan any of you people defending the action of the kneelers state what they are protesting? Please use 15 words or less.
The Lyrics: "home of the free" isn't representative of members of their race's experience.
(14)
The National Anthem is not about Trump, the racist cops, or anything political. It is about respect for those that came before you and sacrificed to make this country the greatest in the history of mankind.
Personally, I think people should not only unsupport the NFL they should also boycott the sponsors. The NFLhas rules regarding conduct during the Anthem. They are violating their own foundation. Good riddance.
Quote: boymimboThe Lyrics: "home of the free" isn't representative of members of their race's experience.
(14)
LBJ screwed the pooch when he replaced the black father with a government check.
Quote: boymimboYes, it is. Note the words SHOULD. It does not have the same gravitas as the first amendment.
Also, in the code, that we routinely ignore, in the Code
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8
Most of these are ignored as well.
No one is saying you legally have to stand during the national anthem. We're saying that you should.
I don't legally have to help an old lady cross the street (pardon the cliche), but I should. I can point at laugh at her if I wanted, that doesn't mean it should be acceptable or others should praise me for standing up in what I (may theoretically) believe in.
This lunacy has to stop.
Quote: RS
No one is saying you legally have to stand during the national anthem. We're saying that you should.
I don't legally have to help an old lady cross the street (pardon the cliche), but I should. I can point at laugh at her if I wanted, that doesn't mean it should be acceptable or others should praise me for standing up in what I (may theoretically) believe in.
This lunacy has to stop.
Well, Trump doesn't have to act Presidential, but he should. And he probably should STFU about criticizing people on anything regarding proper behavior.
Now if he wants to give advice on being a major asshole, there I give him lots of credit. He's got that down pat.
Quote: RSQuote: boymimboYes, it is. Note the words SHOULD. It does not have the same gravitas as the first amendment.
Also, in the code, that we routinely ignore, in the Code
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8
Most of these are ignored as well.
No one is saying you legally have to stand during the national anthem. We're saying that you should.
I don't legally have to help an old lady cross the street (pardon the cliche), but I should. I can point at laugh at her if I wanted, that doesn't mean it should be acceptable or others should praise me for standing up in what I (may theoretically) believe in.
This lunacy has to stop.
Non-sequitor. Choosing not to help someone cross the street has a much more dire consequence then choosing not to stand at attention during a national anthem.
Or to put in in actual perspective: choosing to respect the right of white supremacists (Charlottetown) to protest while taking aim at black athletes choosing to peacefully do the same thing is probably not a wise thing to do. Or can one not see the hyprocrisy?
You are right though: the lunacy does have to stop.
Quote: rxwineWell, Trump doesn't have to act Presidential, but he should. And he probably should STFU about criticizing people on anything regarding proper behavior.
Now if he wants to give advice on being a major asshole, there I give him lots of credit. He's got that down pat.
+infinity
Quote: MaxPenWould be interesting to get an attendance report for tonight's games. I did tune into the Skins game for a few minutes to check scores. I noticed some big graphics covering a fairly empty stadium. Looked like a Vanilla Ice concert.
Attendance numbers are not suffering...
For the Redskins: 77,123 this week. Last year's number was 80,612.
Jaguars: 84,692 (60,127 - last year)
49ers: 70,692 (70,178 - last year)
Bills: 68,685 (68,647 - last year)...
I could go on...
Quote: boymimboThe Lyrics: "home of the free" isn't representative of members of their race's experience.
(14)
Or even better:
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color" - more words, but a direct quote.
Quote: boymimboAttendance numbers are not suffering...
For the Redskins: 77,123 this week. Last year's number was 80,612.
Jaguars: 84,692 (60,127 - last year)
49ers: 70,692 (70,178 - last year)
Bills: 68,685 (68,647 - last year)...
I could go on...
A link to the source of information would be awesome. Thanks in advance.
When the British invaded in 1812, they offered freedom to any slave that joined their cause. Thousands fled their masters and joined the British Colonial forces.
Among the forces attacking Fort McHenry were hundreds, or maybe thousands of former slaves.
Francis Scott Key seems to take delight that so many of them were killed in the attack, in the rarely heard third verse of what is now our National Anthem.
After the war, The U.S. Government demanded the survivors, former slaves turned British soldiers be returned to slavery.
The British refused and assimilated the men into their colonial forces, with many eventually living in Canada.
The group â which filed a similar grievance  against Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders earlier this month â  cited the same federal law, which makes it a crime for a government employee to influence the employment practices of a private entity âsolely on the basis of partisan political affiliation.â
âDonald Trump crossed the line when he called for the firing of any NFL player who kneels during the national anthem,â Jon Cooper, Chairman of the Democratic Coalition, said in a statement Sunday obtained by TheWrap. Â âNo president is exempt from the rule of law, and itâs about time the current occupant of the Oval Office realizes that.â
Quote: billryanSo slaves rebelling against their masters are traitors, but active US Army Officers who take up arms against their country, like Lee and Longstreet aren't? Got it.
Longstreet and Lee are US Veterans. That is fact whether you like it or not.
Were those slaves rebelling against their white or black masters? Something like 25% of free blacks owned slaves. A traitor is a traitor regardless of whether he is a slave or not.
Quote: MaxPenA link to the source of information would be awesome. Thanks in advance.
You can prove out your own 'facts'. Staring at a TV screen and saying, looks terrible, is not a fact. There are sources out there. It's called google.... Where might I find that, a box score, maybe a reference site with game summary? I don't know...
You won't find it on a meme on FoxNews however.
#NoFansLeft
#Kneel4Trump
NFL Owners respond
San Francisco 49's president: "The callous and offensive comments made by the president are contradictory to what this great country stands for."
Green Bay's president and CEO: "We believe it is important to support any of our players who choose to peacefully express themselves with the hope of change for good. As Americans, we are fortunate to be able to speak openly and freely."
Cleveland Browns owners: ""We must not let misguided, uninformed and divisive comments from the President or anyone else deter us from our efforts to unify."
Patriots owners: "I am deeply disappointed by the tone of the comments made by the President on Friday. I am proud to be associated with so many players who make such tremendous contributions in positively impacting our communities... Our players are intelligent, thoughtful, and care deeply about our community and I support their right to peacefully affect social change and raise awareness in a manner that they feel is most impactful."
Jaguars owner locked arms in solidarity with players.
Detroit Lions owners: "Our game has long provided a powerful platform for dialogue and positive change in many communities throughout our nation. Thanks primarily to our players, the NFL has been a unifying force in our country and impactful change and hopefully will continue to be the result of peaceful expression, done so in order to highlight social injustices of all kind. Negative and disrespectful comments suggesting otherwise are contrary to the founding principles of our country, and we do not support those comments or opinions."
Seattle Seahawks coach: ... "I will stand with our players"
Should I go on?
No one will be fired. Trump is on the wrong side of this. And his recommendation as the president to influence the actions of companies is illegal.
Let's remember that Trump ruined the USFL. His plan to make a pile of money by forcing a merge with the NFL got ruined. The USFL sued, and won a total of $3.76 (note - no millions, billions, three dollars and seventeen cents). The league was done.
No, I won't post my sources. Convenient.
#Trump2020
https://youtu.be/2jxP7bWhHro
Quote: MaxPenMy observation of empty stadium seats covered by unusually large network graphics works for me. You put up nonsense that is unverifiable.
#NoFansLeft
#Kneel4Trump
God you're not very resourceful.... when you don't want to be.
2016 attendance numbers
2017 attendance numbers
2017 Week 3 attendance numbers will be posted on above link tomorrow.
But you can get the totals here that includes this week. You can go to the ESPN game summaries to get the attendance for each game.
Attendance numbers are "paid attendance", not "people through the turnstiles". Hence your eyes are right, but the numbers are right too.
