THE LAW FOR GAMBLERS
June 24th, 2016 at 9:16:10 AM
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I placed the thread title in caps because I firmly believe the following book reviewed is a must purchase for all the patrons who frequent WOV.
I prefer to review gambling memoirs however I felt an exception was in order for Bob Nersesian's just released book "The Law For Gamblers".
This is his second book although not a sequel or expansion of "Beat The Players". Instead, it is a detailed examination of current gambling law and how it pertains to the rights of patrons in casinos.
The book is comprised of 13 chapters (a curious number to choose considering the superstitious nature of gamers but perhaps unintentional) each of which focus on a different aspect of gaming law. Some are rather broad, covering the history of gaming law origins, what constitutes legal versus illegal play as well as gray area moves, and a discussion of the pitfalls in both locating a responsible gaming attorney and making claims or torts for patrons who have been illegally detained. Other chapters focus on very specific law issues such as Indian casinos, internet gambling, taxation, etc.
Even if you are not an AP, you may find this book helpful as it discusses what to do when a casino refuses to pay a legitimate jackpot (yes, it has occurred) and since any unlawful detention pertains to someone who is innocent you may find yourself in a situation where you need to reference this book (e.g. if you are mistaken for a card counter and backroomed because you raised your bets).
Nersesian states you don't have to read the chapters in any order and I concur. Each chapter could easily serve as an independently written article in a magazine. As such, this book is meant not only for reading in a single session but also to stand on your bookshelf as an invaluable resource when needed. The book is written in layman's terms with plenty of footnotes pointing to case law for professionals who may wish to use the book as research already compiled.
Some of the very questions asked on these forums are answered. For example, there was a recent thread asking if an invitation from a casino marketing department can negate the order of a previous trespass or, to wit, does being asked into the property act as a defense that being told never to come back is forgiven and forgot. The answer may surprise you.
One thing of import and interest. Nersesian will emphatically not represent anyone who is demonstrably cheating at gambling, even if the case is winnable (e.g improper evidence collection or some other technicality could get you off.) Interestingly, he won't represent those people involved in gray areas either (for example the recent Phil Ivey edge sorting case) so he is apparently not interested in setting precedent with cases of uncertainty but rather in strictly defending the rights of patrons who have had their clear and inescapable rights trampled on.
In summation, this is a book of interest upon initial reading and may well pay for itself in Spades when you need a point of reference if you are ever uncertain or in need of legal counsel due to an incident with a casino.
I prefer to review gambling memoirs however I felt an exception was in order for Bob Nersesian's just released book "The Law For Gamblers".
This is his second book although not a sequel or expansion of "Beat The Players". Instead, it is a detailed examination of current gambling law and how it pertains to the rights of patrons in casinos.
The book is comprised of 13 chapters (a curious number to choose considering the superstitious nature of gamers but perhaps unintentional) each of which focus on a different aspect of gaming law. Some are rather broad, covering the history of gaming law origins, what constitutes legal versus illegal play as well as gray area moves, and a discussion of the pitfalls in both locating a responsible gaming attorney and making claims or torts for patrons who have been illegally detained. Other chapters focus on very specific law issues such as Indian casinos, internet gambling, taxation, etc.
Even if you are not an AP, you may find this book helpful as it discusses what to do when a casino refuses to pay a legitimate jackpot (yes, it has occurred) and since any unlawful detention pertains to someone who is innocent you may find yourself in a situation where you need to reference this book (e.g. if you are mistaken for a card counter and backroomed because you raised your bets).
Nersesian states you don't have to read the chapters in any order and I concur. Each chapter could easily serve as an independently written article in a magazine. As such, this book is meant not only for reading in a single session but also to stand on your bookshelf as an invaluable resource when needed. The book is written in layman's terms with plenty of footnotes pointing to case law for professionals who may wish to use the book as research already compiled.
Some of the very questions asked on these forums are answered. For example, there was a recent thread asking if an invitation from a casino marketing department can negate the order of a previous trespass or, to wit, does being asked into the property act as a defense that being told never to come back is forgiven and forgot. The answer may surprise you.
Under the common law known as innkeepers law, an invitation to a hotel is grounds for you to re-enter, however a legal test may result if you go onto the gaming area. Casinos without hotels, stay away.
One thing of import and interest. Nersesian will emphatically not represent anyone who is demonstrably cheating at gambling, even if the case is winnable (e.g improper evidence collection or some other technicality could get you off.) Interestingly, he won't represent those people involved in gray areas either (for example the recent Phil Ivey edge sorting case) so he is apparently not interested in setting precedent with cases of uncertainty but rather in strictly defending the rights of patrons who have had their clear and inescapable rights trampled on.
In summation, this is a book of interest upon initial reading and may well pay for itself in Spades when you need a point of reference if you are ever uncertain or in need of legal counsel due to an incident with a casino.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
June 24th, 2016 at 10:18:02 AM
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Does the book talk about the realities of our legal system ? Like for example, the amount of time, energy, and money that will be needed to pursue a given civil or criminal wrongdoing ? Like for example, say the casino is obligated to pay you but in order for you to pursue it you would have to spend the amount or more that is actually owed. does he give insight on situations like that ?
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
June 24th, 2016 at 10:55:08 AM
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It is very logical that Bob Nersesian would write such a book. It is a compilation of his research and court cases on the subject.
If I'm ever detained or back roomed I will follow his recommendations on what to say and do. And I have his phone number on speed dial.
If I'm ever detained or back roomed I will follow his recommendations on what to say and do. And I have his phone number on speed dial.
June 24th, 2016 at 11:58:35 AM
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In which he will probably refer you to another lawyer. Unless the case is really juicy(you got a beat down and held for a long time) i dont think he's interested.Quote: GreasyjohnIt is very logical that Bob Nersesian would write such a book. It is a compilation of his research and court cases on the subject.
If I'm ever detained or back roomed I will follow his recommendations on what to say and do. And I have his phone number on speed dial.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
June 24th, 2016 at 1:21:46 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfIn which he will probably refer you to another lawyer. Unless the case is really juicy(you got a beat down and held for a long time) i dont think he's interested.
He's a very in-demand lawyer but you never know when this happens if he is in a lull and might take a less-juicy case. Also, he may be able to determine factors that the detainee doesn't recognize as possibly worthwhile.
For example, he states in his book that a very juicy award can be gotten if it can be proven the casino acted as an agent of the state as this violates a very direct and preciously held statute in law. One way the casino can act as an agent of the state is if they involve the police to do their bidding (having the police take your ID with your instructions not to give it to the casino and they do anyway is just one example.)
So, always call and let the facts determine if Bob will feel its worth his time.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
June 24th, 2016 at 3:04:35 PM
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Thank you for the book suggestion.
I was going to make a thread asking about good gambling books, then found this excuse for a thread:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/gambling/25907-reading-materials-that-made-you-a-successful-ap/
"reading only makes you a better reader"
I was going to make a thread asking about good gambling books, then found this excuse for a thread:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/gambling/25907-reading-materials-that-made-you-a-successful-ap/
"reading only makes you a better reader"
June 25th, 2016 at 5:42:22 PM
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darkoz,, if I remember correctly you engaged Bob Nersesian's NY office before on some of your personal cases. Could you tell us what is your experience is like and how long and expensive it is.
I for one do not think running to a lawyer is always the best course of action.
There is always the state gaming commission who are the policeman of all activity regarding the casino. So if you have a complain against the casino they will act for you. If the casino has a complain against you the gaming commission will charge you on the violation. The exception is the Phil Ivey case where it is unclear what violation took place and by whom. Then they would stand back and leave it to the court to decide.
So my take is to complain to the gaming commission and use a lawyer only if it is really necessary, like if you are charged by the commission or the casino. Like the Phil Ivey case the commission left it to the casino to take a civil suit out. The commission has authority for criminal cases and can sent people to jail.
I for one do not think running to a lawyer is always the best course of action.
There is always the state gaming commission who are the policeman of all activity regarding the casino. So if you have a complain against the casino they will act for you. If the casino has a complain against you the gaming commission will charge you on the violation. The exception is the Phil Ivey case where it is unclear what violation took place and by whom. Then they would stand back and leave it to the court to decide.
So my take is to complain to the gaming commission and use a lawyer only if it is really necessary, like if you are charged by the commission or the casino. Like the Phil Ivey case the commission left it to the casino to take a civil suit out. The commission has authority for criminal cases and can sent people to jail.
June 28th, 2016 at 2:10:28 PM
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Quote: Deck007darkoz,, if I remember correctly you engaged Bob Nersesian's NY office before on some of your personal cases. Could you tell us what is your experience is like and how long and expensive it is.
I for one do not think running to a lawyer is always the best course of action.
There is always the state gaming commission who are the policeman of all activity regarding the casino. So if you have a complain against the casino they will act for you. If the casino has a complain against you the gaming commission will charge you on the violation. The exception is the Phil Ivey case where it is unclear what violation took place and by whom. Then they would stand back and leave it to the court to decide.
So my take is to complain to the gaming commission and use a lawyer only if it is really necessary, like if you are charged by the commission or the casino. Like the Phil Ivey case the commission left it to the casino to take a civil suit out. The commission has authority for criminal cases and can sent people to jail.
Deck, each case is going to be different. Sometimes a casino recognizes they crossed the line and you wind up with a quick settlement. Sometimes, the casino is obstinate and wants to prove they can win in court. Generally, court cases go slowly!
As for cost, in most of these types of civil matters, you can arrange for a contingency payment which means the lawyer only gets paid if you win. You may be on the hook up front for some court costs. We are talking about cases where you were wronged by a casino.
Other cases will be expensive. These can be civil forfeiture and trying to get back your money or calling to have other negotiable rights instituted. Unless the casino is clearly in the wrong legally (refusing to pay a legit jackpot or backrooming you for AP legal maneuvers) expect to pay more than it's probably worth.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
