Payday No Pay

Starting here, in another thread,

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/other-games/24120-youuuuuuuuuu-might-not-be-an-ap-if-contest/15/#post495358

member GWAE confessed to less than sterling accountability for some money borrowed when "young and irresponsible" . This got me clucking some, and the thread was getting derailed.

So, with a new thread, and a poll to vote on, I'll get off my high horse to confess when I was fairly young I stiffed some credit card companies. Apparently GWAE's failure to pay did not have after-effects, but my problems did haunt my credit rating for years. Thing was, I was just dead broke not quite 40 years ago. I can say I did not then, nor ever have I stiffed any individuals - never welching for sure - but some creditors just never saw the money. I simply did not have any money for anybody, anywhere, for some length of time.

So there, true confessions.

The question for the poll is, how about you? Let's assume there are no welchers [ha]. But have you ever failed to pay any creditors?

I'd rather (and have) go without eating than not pay what I owe. It's just something in my DNA. I had to short-sell a house a couple years ago, and it nearly killed me, but the bank agreed to the sale price, so I guess they earned enough off of me over the 17 years of the mortgage that they were willing to sign it off. That's as close as I've come to stiffing anybody, ever.

I do not advocate stiffing anybody, but payday lenders are borderline criminal. If it was somebody you absolutely HAD to stiff, I wouldn't it mind it being them. They won't lend you out more than a grand though usually without putting a lien on your car title. (DO NOT DO THAT.)

Don't stiff credit card companies. They will make your life hell. I used to work in legal collections. ;)

Don't stiff store credit cards (Kohl's, Sears, Lowes, etc.) From what I can tell they are especially vicious. Even more than the CC's.

Unsecured debt is tricky. I think the safest loan is a car loan. Nobody will miss a car payment because they want to keep their car.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I'd rather (and have) go without eating than not pay what I owe. It's just something in my DNA. I had to short-sell a house a couple years ago, and it nearly killed me, but the bank agreed to the sale price, so I guess they earned enough off of me over the 17 years of the mortgage that they were willing to sign it off. That's as close as I've come to stiffing anybody, ever.

Damnit I just wrote out a thing about strategically defaulting on mortgages then accidentally closed the thread.

Sometimes you gotta do it. The hit to your credit is worth it if you don't want to pay anymore.

I am 100% the other way on gambling debts. Pay them ASAP if you lose. Pay them before the bet resolves. Don't make people have to come find you to settle up.

Quote: djatc

Damnit I just wrote out a thing about strategically defaulting on mortgages then accidentally closed the thread.

Sometimes you gotta do it. The hit to your credit is worth it if you don't want to pay anymore.

I am 100% the other way on gambling debts. Pay them ASAP if you lose. Pay them before the bet resolves. Don't make people have to come find you to settle up.

I think that would be a good thread.

Of course don't stiff a person who you owe, but the banks were able to create money out of thin air and destroy the currency of the country. Deciding whether or not to default on a mortgage is a financial decision, not a moral one.

Well OG, here is the true confession and back story. This post will probably go long. In 1998 I opened a business. Business was great for 3 years. I was even opening a second location. I did home and business networking plus we had a retail store for custom computers and repair.

Made amazing money for 3 years. Then I entered into an agreement with another computer store to fund a project to set up a new college with their entire network. Remember this is 2000 where the custom computers were AMD Athlon 1k with 17 monitors. My cost on these computers were something like 1400. It was all high end stuff. Well to make a long story short this other company took the 148k check and disappeared. In order to fund this project I had maxed out 2 credit cards, my bank line of credit, and my distributors line of credit.

Once the net 60.became due I was cash poor with a new store being built out and a payroll that I couldnt handle. When it was all said and done this one deal gone wrong wiped out my business. In order for me to make rent on my apartment I took an internet payday loan for 1k.

For anyone that doesn't know how they work. You get 1k quick. In a week they either want their 1k back with no interest or they will withdrawal just the interest from your account. This cycle will continue almost indefinitely until you pay back the 1k. As teddys said these are highly illegal now. The APR is so high that I don't think it can be calculated. Since I had no money in my account when they went to take their interest it got declined. The bank was nice enough to charge me $35 for the denied payment. The loan company tried taking money 3 times a day for the next 10 or 12 days. My account ended up being negative $1700. After I realized I called the loan company but they didn't care. At that point I decided there was no way in hell I was paying them back.

For the next 2 or 3 YEARS they called my neighbors, family members, people i once met, and possibly even people that I was going to meet in the future. Even know 12 years later I still get calls every once in a while.

I voted young and irresponsible but there was definitely no partying and buying stupid stuff with the money.

I was young but I was never irresponsible. Ever. I could not fathom stiffing anyone for any reason.

Forget poor credit ratings. I've heard of far worse consequences. You could be banned from a forum. Oh the horror!

About Payday Loans, a commercial for Western Sky claimed that they could get you $5,000 in your checking account the next day, and admitted the money was expensive(the APR is roughly 131% :O, but claimed it was cheaper than a Payday Loan.) A $5,000 loan equals to roughly $40,000. Oh my God. :O. The Payday Loan place near me is only $30 more than than the loan amount, how is that worse than paying $35,000 more than the loan amount? By the way, Western Sky has changed its name twice since airing the commercial that aired just a few years ago. What a huge red flag.

Quote: teddys

Don't stiff credit card companies. They will make your life hell.

I can confirm this and I only had a store credit card and a gas card. They have ways of keeping this hell up past the 7 yr period it is supposed to take for your credit record to heal.

Back then, though, it was easier to disappear, especially if you moved to a new city. Very few people even had answering machines. Today you can't even rent without a good credit record at so many places.

Quote: GWAE

Well OG, here is the true confession and back story

After reading that, I would declare you a very, very bad person if you ever paid them!

PS: my problems also came down from going into business for myself [a partnership]. Anybody who has never done that can only imagine how harrowing it is. You can't sleep at night over worrying about payroll.

Quote: odiousgambit

PS: my problems also came down from going into business for myself [a partnership]. Anybody who has never done that can only imagine how harrowing it is. You can't sleep at night over worrying about payroll.

A failing business and the issues mentioned above have given me so much character. It was a very tough part of my life. As you say, you stay up worrying about employees and making payroll. At one point I took a part time day job and a full time over night job at walmart to salvage the business. Including my business I was working 120 hours a week if not more. In the end it was not able to survive. But as they say I have no regrets. If not for the failing business I would have not met my wife and not had 2 great"ish" kids. Although if it continued at the pace it was going I would have been able to retire before I was 50. current life w/wife and kids vs other life with a ton of money. Now there is the real debate. money or happiness? Can money buy happiness?

Quote: Kentry

About Payday Loans, a commercial for Western Sky claimed that they could get you $5,000 in your checking account the next day, and admitted the money was expensive(the APR is roughly 131% :O, but claimed it was cheaper than a Payday Loan.) A $5,000 loan equals to roughly $40,000. Oh my God. :O. The Payday Loan place near me is only $30 more than than the loan amount, how is that worse than paying $35,000 more than the loan amount? By the way, Western Sky has changed its name twice since airing the commercial that aired just a few years ago. What a huge red flag.

Western Sky got busted by the State. They are no longer operating. But there are still Indian Reservation lenders. It not the tribe, usually, it's an outside company who comes onto the tribe's land and sets up an office. For example, I just got a solicitation from the Lac Vieux Desert Band of Lake Superior Chippewa Indians in Watersmeet, MI. They also have a casino up there in the Upper Peninsula. The loan was for $1,500, and I believe the repayment schedule they outlined was a $20,000 total payback. Totally criminal.

The tribes should never have dabbled in this pay day lending debacle. I worry that this type of business relationship threatens tribal sovereignty. This is not what sovereignty was meant for and it is a travesty that it is abused in such a manner. I think you may see some of these places going out of business over the next few years due to them not only screwing over the borrower but also the tribes whose shield of sovereignty they are hiding behind. In some cases it is not the tribe who is benefiting but only a couple members who have lent out their names in a token manner to establish tribal ownership or provided an address on reservation land for the business. Sorry for the rant but as a tribal member this stuff sicken me.

They have been around for many years. I doubt they would all of a sudden start to care. Especially since the ftc now has warnings all over the place.

Quote: GWAE

They have been around for many years. I doubt they would all of a sudden start to care. Especially since the ftc now has warnings all over the place.

Crooks will be crooks.
In some jurisdictions it's always open season, if done quietly.

Quote: GWAE

I have no regrets. If not for the failing business I would have not met my wife and not had 2 great"ish" kids.

Code for I would've been care free, living in Vegas and partying with strippers.

Quote: AxelWolf

Code for I would've been care free, living in Vegas and partying with strippers.

Can't confirm nor deny if that would have been the plan. I can say that I hope that is my dream tonight instead of being chased by the mob.