Inground pool leaks

What happens when you suspect you swimming pool has sprung a leak? I have notice for the past couple weeks, I have to add about twice the amount of water each morning that I used to. There is a natural amount of daily water loss, due to evaporation and splash out, but it really seems more lately. I haven't notice and wet ground around the pool.

So what do you do, call someone and they come out and look for/find a leak? I assume that involves draining the pool? Or should I just wait until it becomes super obvious, with wet ground and such?

With Lake Mead about empty and the worst
drought in 100 years in the next state over,
I'm surprised they let you have a pool in Vegas.

The drought map says Vegas is also in an
extreme drought.

You answered your own question correctly. Call the pool guy and get an inspection.

Quote: kewlj

So what do you do, call someone and they come out and look for/find a leak?
I assume that involves draining the pool?
Or should I just wait until it becomes super obvious, with wet ground and such?

depends on the type of pool

my Mom's pool (in ground gunite) just had that problem
maybe call a pool guy but they may know a specialist

yes, there are specialists that only do this kind of work (in SoCal a few of them)
diving suit and listening devices too
they even repaired the crack with the pool still filled with water
was down by the main drain

water is fun too
i like a spa much better
Sally

I'm getting sick of people with swimming pools and a lawn getting all the blame for the drought. Somebody (i.e. Paco) tell me what percentage of Colorado River water goes to desert farming -- at highly subsidized rates.

Men in diving suits and listening devices sounds expensive. So does draining and re-filling the pool. :(

But if something needs to be done I would rather act now, than miss a few pool days in June or July.

I can't speak for all of Nevada Bob, but I believe Vegas is in a 14 year drought. We have averaged something like 2.5 inches of rain a year over that period, compared to what they say is normal 4.5 inches per year. I have been wondering at what point the new lower number becomes the new "normal"?

This year was off to a good start. We have had some rain the early part of the year. I think we had 3 or 4 different days where there was like 1/2 inch of rain. We might just hit that old 'average' of 4.5 inches.

Lake Mead is no where near empty. It's like 80% full. More than enough water for my lifetime. The only problem is they built the intake valve too high, and water level is just about at that, so they are building a new one lower. There is also a pipeline in the works to 'steal' water from the mountains of upstate Nevada and Utah. The folks in upstate Nevada and Utah aren't too happy about that. I think it is stalled in court right now.

Quote: EvenBob

The drought map says Vegas is also in an
extreme drought.

That map appears to show that Vegas is in a moderate drought.

This site has the color-coding key.

Quote: kewlj

Men in diving suits and listening devices sounds expensive. So does draining and re-filling the pool. :(

They should first inspect the pump. Maybe you've just cracked a seal. Then, they'll probably try dye to see if water is flowing somewhere it shouldn't. Then you get to the listening devices and draining. There's a pretty high chance that they'll never get to the extreme levels.

Quote: rdw4potus

They should first inspect the pump. Maybe you've just cracked a seal. Then, they'll probably try dye to see if water is flowing somewhere it shouldn't. Then you get to the listening devices and draining. There's a pretty high chance that they'll never get to the extreme levels.

The pump area, was the first place I looked and didn't see any sign of leakage.

Quote: kewlj

.

Lake Mead is no where near empty. It's like 80% full. More than enough water for my lifetime.

This article in the Sun says 2021.

http://lasvegassun.com/news/topics/water/

Quote: Wizard

I'm getting sick of people with swimming pools and a lawn getting all the blame for the drought. Somebody (i.e. Paco) tell me what percentage of Colorado River water goes to desert farming -- at highly subsidized rates.

I don't know numbers for Nevada, but generally nationwide agriculture accounts for about 80% of water usage, 13% is commercial and about 7% of it is residential. IMO the blame of the drought is two-fold
1) In farming land in places of California that are not meant to be farmed and
2) Namby pamby environmental laws, which favor species most of us have never heard of or care to know, above the needs of the humans on the planet.

Doing stuff at home like taking a 5 minute shower instead of a 7 minute shower or not watering your lawn (although in places like Vegas, I believe having a grass lawn is against the law) is a drop in the bucket compared to many other things. However, one thing that people have shown throughout history is that they always think the times they live in are the most important times in the history of the civilized world. The drought will end at some point and everybody can and will go back to their normal everyday lives.

Sooner or later, California is just one huge earthquake from going to be underwater anyway.

Well, the thing is California has another option. There is a whole Ocean of water there. Desalinization is expensive right now. There is currently a plant down somewhere near San Diego I believe. The price will come down as technology improves and they are going to have to go in that direction.

In addition, Mexico receives a share of the water from the Colorado river. This was not mentioned in the video that Bob posted. This is from a 1944 treaty signed with Mexico. Like California, Mexico has other options. When push comes to shove, they are low man on the totem pole.....literally.

Quote: kewlj

Well, the thing is California has another option. There is a whole Ocean of water there. Desalinization is expensive right now. There is currently a plant down somewhere near San Diego I believe. The price will come down as technology improves and they are going to have to go in that direction.

If they want any if the water from here, they can get it out of the disgusting Detroit River.

Quote: Wizard

I'm getting sick of people with swimming pools and a lawn getting all the blame for the drought. .

I've read that if you tear out the lawn,
a pool is about an equal trade off. Unless
you have an underground sprinkler
system that's automatic, they use about
twice the water a pool does. A lawn is
just more agriculture, grass being your
crop.

Quote: kewlj

What happens when you suspect you swimming pool has sprung a leak? I have notice for the past couple weeks, I have to add about twice the amount of water each morning that I used to. There is a natural amount of daily water loss, due to evaporation and splash out, but it really seems more lately. I haven't notice and wet ground around the pool.

So what do you do, call someone and they come out and look for/find a leak? I assume that involves draining the pool? Or should I just wait until it becomes super obvious, with wet ground and such?

Does your water company bill you for water consumed and tell you how many gallons? How does it compare with last year, and most importantly, can you blame it on your brother, therefore defraying the cost?

My pool guy whom I asked the question said: take a five gallon bucket and fill it to the level of your pool water and set it on my pool step [improvise if necessary] then wait a day or two of hot weather. The level in the bucket and the pool should be the same [allowing for splash out] assuming they started at the same level. If not, you need a pool guy.

I'm told not to drain a gunnite pool.

Quote: petroglyph

Does your water company bill you for water consumed and tell you how many gallons? How does it compare with last year, and most importantly, can you blame it on your brother, therefore defraying the cost?

It will take a couple months to compare to last year. And No I can't blame my brother. He moved in last June, after he graduated college, so he was here last summer anyway. I love having him in my household and won't blame anything on him. :)

Besides my mother is separating from my stepdad and moving to Las Vegas next month. I am already blaming the fact that she is moving here on my brother (not the separation). She wants to be near her little boy. I don't think she gives a rats ass about her older boy. :/

Quote: kewlj

It will take a couple months to compare to last year. And No I can't blame my brother. He moved in last June, after he graduated college, so he was here last summer anyway. I love having him in my household and won't blame anything on him. :)

Besides my mother is separating from my stepdad and moving to Las Vegas next month. I am already blaming the fact that she is moving here on my brother (not the separation). She wants to be near her little boy. I don't think she gives a rats ass about her older boy. :/

Kewlj, did I need to put an lol after the blame the brother part?

You see the thinking about the measured versus not measure evap rate, right? Do you have to fill your pool manually and not have an auto fill? Are you heating it?

Quote: petroglyph

Kewlj, did I need to put an lol after the blame the brother part?

You see the thinking about the measured versus not measure evap rate, right? Do you have to fill your pool manually and not have an auto fill? Are you heating it?

No, I fill it manually each morning. Not a heated pool. Not THAT spoiled. We live in Vegas for josh sakes. The hot tub is heated but that takes next to nothing to heat.

Quote: kewlj

No, I fill it manually each morning. Not a heated pool. Not THAT spoiled. We live in Vegas for josh sakes. The hot tub is heated but that takes next to nothing to heat.

I'm down here in Lake Havasu.

I was wondering if the increased heat caused more evaporation? Mine does, we heat sometimes especially when we have company in the "winter" months.

I know ours really ups the chlorine consumption when the water is warmer.

My pool guy says the pools around here evaporate 3 times they're volume per year. Mine is small around 8k gallons. A refill is around 50 bucks.

The average teenager uses upwards of 150 gallons of water per day, some say 300. So my pool uses as much water as having one teenager for about 160 days.

I hope you don't have a leak.

Quote: petroglyph

I'm down here in Lake Havasu.

I was wondering if the increased heat caused more evaporation? Mine does, we heat sometimes especially when we have company in the "winter" months.

I know ours really ups the chlorine consumption when the water is warmer.

My pool guy says the pools around here evaporate 3 times they're volume per year. Mine is small around 8k gallons. A refill is around 50 bucks.

The average teenager uses upwards of 150 gallons of water per day, some say 300. So my pool uses as much water as having one teenager for about 160 days.

I hope you don't have a leak.

I wonder how they figure the 150 to 300 gallons per teenager per day? What is the thought process behind that?

A few years ago I went to Burning Man in Northern Nevada for a few days. The RV, I was tagging along with really didn't have enough water for the 6 people in it, so I showered at the outside public showers provided at the festival. They rationed water. I think they gave us 6 gallons per shower. Maybe 8 gallons. First day I didn't even get the shampoo out of my hair. :(

duplicate

Here is the USGS saying around 100 gal. per day and explains where the water is used?

http://water.usgs.gov/edu/qa-home-percapita.html

It is still cheaper and more desirable for me to have a pool than a teenager. :)

I here you on the camping showers versus home. I have lived and "hauled" water before, I got sensitive about consumption. Everyone should have the experience of living on hauled water.

Kj,

You can check yourself for several things.

Most likely; the grout has dried or cracked around the edge of the pool, along or just below the water line. Get a big bottle of food coloring. Use a squirt bottle instead of open bottle. Feel along and look at the tiles with the water level of the pool above where it tends to settle, with the pump off. Anywhere it might be cracked, squirt a little food coloring in the water (NOT on the wall) and see if it just sits there or if it moves. Compound waterproof putty (you knead it together) works really well to fix those cracks.

Next most likely; ground has shifted enough to crack your skimmer line (pretty easy to fix) or (hopefully not) your main drain line. If your water level defaults to just below your skimmer and then seems to stay, it's your skimmer that's leaking. If that seems to be the case, turn the pool to main drain only, fill a couple inches above the skimmer line, and use the dye again to see if the skimmer line's drawing when it shouldn't be (indicating a crack between the skimmer and the pump switches). If you have a vacuum line, it could also be the source of the leak if it's cracked; turn on the main drain only, put dye near that outlet, and see if it takes any in. Except for the main drain, those pipes tend to be not far underground and are PVC that can be dug up and repaired just like sprinkler lines.

Worst case: ground has shifted enough to allow a deep crack or vertical crack because the earth the pool is resting in has eroded, either from a small leak or any number of aquifer disturbances. You definitely need to have a pro do this.

Do NOT drain the pool completely; you want to leave a good amount of water weight in it if at all possible to keep it in place. A pro may be able to do it without ruining your pool, but here in Florida (different ground, to be sure, than Vegas bedrock) people drain their pools and they come right up out of the ground, then crack as they shift, anywhere from rising a few inches to popping up like a cork.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Kj,

You can check yourself for several things.

Most likely; the grout has dried or cracked around the edge of the pool, along or just below the water line. Get a big bottle of food coloring. Use a squirt bottle instead of open bottle. Feel along and look at the tiles with the water level of the pool above where it tends to settle, with the pump off. Anywhere it might be cracked, squirt a little food coloring in the water (NOT on the wall) and see if it just sits there or if it moves. Compound waterproof putty (you knead it together) works really well to fix those cracks.

Next most likely; ground has shifted enough to crack your skimmer line (pretty easy to fix) or (hopefully not) your main drain line. If your water level defaults to just below your skimmer and then seems to stay, it's your skimmer that's leaking. If that seems to be the case, turn the pool to main drain only, fill a couple inches above the skimmer line, and use the dye again to see if the skimmer line's drawing when it shouldn't be (indicating a crack between the skimmer and the pump switches). If you have a vacuum line, it could also be the source of the leak if it's cracked; turn on the main drain only, put dye near that outlet, and see if it takes any in. Except for the main drain, those pipes tend to be not far underground and are PVC that can be dug up and repaired just like sprinkler lines.

Worst case: ground has shifted enough to allow a deep crack or vertical crack because the earth the pool is resting in has eroded, either from a small leak or any number of aquifer disturbances. You definitely need to have a pro do this.

Do NOT drain the pool completely; you want to leave a good amount of water weight in it if at all possible to keep it in place. A pro may be able to do it without ruining your pool, but here in Florida (different ground, to be sure, than Vegas bedrock) people drain their pools and they come right up out of the ground, then crack as they shift, anywhere from rising a few inches to popping up like a cork.

Thank you for the detailed info, BBB, but everything you said seems a little too much for me. I think I will call someone. :)

Many, many, many years ago I had a part time summer job working for a pool company. Besides the water loss that is visible from the water line is there any outward sign of a water leak? Is the land around the pool still firm? Is the grass a bit greener?

I worked for a pool company that installed steel pools that were sandblasted. While they were installed in two pieces and welded together, they could spring a leak on the weld but it was very rare.

Concrete pools can crack.

Step 1. Go for a swim down to the bottom and look for cracks.
Step 2: Check your pumping equipment for leaks. This includes your exterior filter.
Step 3: Call for someone else to check.

I don't know of any repairs that can be made without emptying the pool.

By the way a reminder: keep glass out of the pool areas. If glass breaks you will want to drain the pool to be sure the glass is removed.

There was no math involved in this answer.

Quote: Wizard

I'm getting sick of people with swimming pools and a lawn getting all the blame for the drought. Somebody (i.e. Paco) tell me what percentage of Colorado River water goes to desert farming -- at highly subsidized rates.

Call it the under-scrutiny Commercial Fishing outfits tactic. Once they have about fished out some species, one tactic used to fight the restrictions that are coming is to insist the recreational fishermen also incur draconian cutbacks. The fact of the matter is, of course, that recreational fishermen could fish themselves to exhaustion and not effect much of anything in the ocean. Yet, if the commercial guys get cut back, everybody gets cut back.

There is something about the logic of spreading the pain etc. that is irresistible to people making the decisions. In the case of the great drought now, it's pretty clear IMO that area agriculture needs to make major permanent changes. Instead we will pretend that keeping people from peeing all the time will solve the problem.

Quote: rdw4potus

Quote: EvenBob

The drought map says Vegas is also in an
extreme drought.

That map appears to show that Vegas is in a moderate drought.

This site has the color-coding key.

Anyone else ever notice that Clark County has the same basic shape as the state of Nevada?

Kewlj, look into it before you take any steps. If your pool could use a resurfacing then this would be a good time to consider that too. (I was thinking of dyes too. But look into the possible ways to approach the issue.)

Quote: Greasyjohn

Quote: rdw4potus

Quote: EvenBob

The drought map says Vegas is also in an
extreme drought.

That map appears to show that Vegas is in a moderate drought.

This site has the color-coding key.

Anyone else ever notice that Clark County has the same basic shape as the state of Nevada?

Kewlj, look into it before you take any steps. If your pool could use a resurfacing then this would be a good time to consider that too. (I was thinking of dyes too. But look into the possible ways to approach the issue.)

My suggestion - sell the house. Pools are like boats, the best day of your life is when you bought it. That is only succeeded by the day you sold it.

Quote: kewlj

Men in diving suits and listening devices sounds expensive. So does draining and re-filling the pool. :(

But if something needs to be done I would rather act now, than miss a few pool days in June or July.

I can't speak for all of Nevada Bob, but I believe Vegas is in a 14 year drought. We have averaged something like 2.5 inches of rain a year over that period, compared to what they say is normal 4.5 inches per year. I have been wondering at what point the new lower number becomes the new "normal"?

This year was off to a good start. We have had some rain the early part of the year. I think we had 3 or 4 different days where there was like 1/2 inch of rain. We might just hit that old 'average' of 4.5 inches.

Lake Mead is no where near empty. It's like 80% full. More than enough water for my lifetime. The only problem is they built the intake valve too high, and water level is just about at that, so they are building a new one lower. There is also a pipeline in the works to 'steal' water from the mountains of upstate Nevada and Utah. The folks in upstate Nevada and Utah aren't too happy about that. I think it is stalled in court right now.

I have seen the figure 39% of capacity. Apparently with that pool leak it is now at 37%.

Quote: Area51

My suggestion - sell the house. Pools are like boats, the best day of your life is when you bought it. That is only succeeded by the day you sold it.

I don't know anybody with a pool
anymore. The ones that had them
filled them in because they're so
expensive to maintain. Filling in
pools is big business in LA, the
crews are always working.

Lake Mead Water Levels...

http://www.arachnoid.com/NaturalResources/

http://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/hourly/mead-elv.html

Wow that article about Lake Mead is alarming. Looking at the water level chart. It appears at first glance that the water hasn't been so low in the lake since the 30's when it was still filling.

Quote: Wizard

I'm getting sick of people with swimming pools and a lawn getting all the blame for the drought.

Only 10% of the Colorado river makes it to the ocean.

Overpopulation is the main reason. Colorado River

Now Vegas wants to take water from the Mormon Ranchers: Water Grab

Recycling sewage water is also being discussed. Recycled Water

The Ogallala Aquifer stretches from S Dakota
to Texas, one of the largest in the world. It
provides water for the Heartlands crops and
is quickly disappearing. Before that happens,
they will start coming after the Great Lakes,
which hold 1/5th of the worlds fresh water.
They already are, in fact.

Lake Mead today. Uh oh. Has never been this
low since they were filling it 80 years ago.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-lake-mead-low-20150429-story.html

Quote: Wizard

I'm getting sick of people with swimming pools and a lawn getting all the blame for the drought. Somebody (i.e. Paco) tell me what percentage of Colorado River water goes to desert farming -- at highly subsidized rates.

Can I blame it on golf courses in the middle of the desert instead? It's self serving, I hate to golf but like to swim.