Tipping Inside Casinos (always an interesting subject).
Giving 10$ tokes every half hour is very generous.
In my personal opinion, if you are cool with toking off 20$ per hour, I'd suggest instead of that.. put up random 1$ dealer bets throughout your session.
If I am playing craps and the point is at 4,6,8,10 ... then I generally like to bet a 2-way Hard X. It gets the dealers into the game.
You could do Dealer Pass Line/PLACE/Field bets for just 1$ as well.
Quote: benbakdoffI'm not familiar with tipping at craps but you certainly meet and exceed my definition of a George. You are being very generous.
Ben:
I always wondered why the Craps Dealers at the Flamingo remembered us the next year we were there. It was easy for us to recognize them, but when they remembered us, it was quite the shock.
Quote: minnesotajoeSFB, as a dealer, I thank you and all others that toke. If it were not for tokes, there would be no dealers. Nobody would want to deal for just 5$ per hour.
Giving 10$ tokes every half hour is very generous.
In my personal opinion, if you are cool with toking off 20$ per hour, I'd suggest instead of that.. put up random 1$ dealer bets throughout your session.
If I am playing craps and the point is at 4,6,8,10 ... then I generally like to bet a 2-way Hard X. It gets the dealers into the game.
You could do Dealer Pass Line/PLACE/Field bets for just 1$ as well.
MJ:
I don't place the bets, becasue I want the dealers to get them, no matter what. And I have watched a number of different ways to place bets for the dealers. If I was at a session that had us way up, maybe I would bet some "for the boys", but I prefer the direct approach.
SFB
Someone argued that if it wasn't for tips, dealers would make very little. I put forward that if nobody tipped, casinos would pay dealers a proper wage. See Australian or Quebec casinos. $15+/hour, full health benefits, pension plan.
I've played a little bit of everywhere, from places where tips are forbidden to places where the dealers outright ask players for tips. I have not noticed a significant difference in service, but again, I don't stick around at a table long enough to notice. And what I consider "good service" is a quiet, fast dealer. Some people like a chatty dealer, I don't. I don't want a funny dealer and I liken tipping a dealer because he is talkative and interesting as paying for a conversation. A conversation I didn't want in the first place.
That said, I am not a poor tipper in other industries. I do tip wait staff, hairdressers and taxi drivers "properly". But, if I am being honest, most of the time I tip these service providers because I feel socially forced to do so. It's rare I get outstanding service that I actually feel like my tip was justified.
Quote: JerryLoganFlea, I always tip for drinks, food, and parking too. But I've never left a tip for the housekeeping grunts.
I left $300 in my room once. The next time I checked in, (after I called ahead for reservations) there was a bottle of my favorite drink in there and what I use to mix it... Hypnotic redbull! The casinos hate to love me though. I love that false love I get from the casinos it make me feel like I am special. Free rooms free drinks free everything. All while I rob there blackjack tables. Yeah I gotta love that false love.
Good. Dealers like that. They have to put up with the Stiffs. And often so do the other players.
>its supposed to be 15% of the total bill in a restaurant,
Yeah, but there ain't nobody precisely measuring your math and this is a real "service" you are getting so its a bit different.
>I like to play Craps. I don't place bets for the dealers, because if they lose, they get nothing. Just my opinion.
Many dealers feel that way too and prefer a "dealer hand in" to a bet. They get more from the bet, but only if it wins. Its exciting for them perhaps to have a bet down and it is great for them if it does win.
>I may buy in for $500, play the pass, and a couple of come bets, from $10-20 each bet.
>Some props stuff, because its amusing and my Wife enjoys it.
Okay. I'd do something to get their attention when you join the table and then a little something to keep their attention from time to time. Then I'd do a steady $15 an hour. I'd push it up a bit if they've done anything special for you. Reminded you of a missed odds bet or just seemed very attentive to you. If you've had exceptionally good luck, yeah... share some it around. As you depart, I'd do a farewell dealer hand-in.
>I am paying about $20-30 an hour directly to the dealers.
In some casinos, that is a George.
Last nite I told the wife I'm going to the casino with a small goal of a $500 win. I planned on winning Christmas tips. I did not use AP. I am still working on my experiment that no one wanted to comment on. Up $300 quickly, down $1200, up $600. played 30 minutes. I gave $50 each to the private lounge bartenders and servers and chefs. They have tended to my wife and I all year. The one comment that I received from most of them was "I made their day" It left me with a nice feeling. I continue to take care of certain dealers as they look out for me
WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND!
Quote: only1choiceThis story was told to my wife by one of her good friends who is a dealer at MS. It occured on 12/16 & 12/17. The dealer in question was working in the high limit pit, $500 minimum. A man bought in for $250,000 and started playng bj $25,000-50,000 bets. No conversation while playing, eventually won a little over one million dollars. Did not say anything to dealer and left no tips, zilch. The dealers talk among themselves in the break room and were aware of this man. Many of the staff are a close knit group and feel a comradeship. He proceeded to lose it all back. The hooray chants in the breakroom could almost be heard on the floor. A few days later I ran into our friend and she told me she was beside herself with joy.
WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND!
If they're dancing around when he lost, that pretty much validates his decision not to tip in the first place.
Also, just because he had a big winning session didn't mean he wasn't still several million in the hole. That may have affected his decision not to start flinging $100 bills around in joy.
Quote: mkl654321If they're dancing around when he lost, that pretty much validates his decision not to tip in the first place.
I was debating whether or not I should respond to your remark. I decided to. This particular gal is a dear sweet woman who many high-rollers seek out to play with. She moved up the ranks quickly and when dealing bj does the $100-500 games. For anyone including AP's she is a perfect dealer. She deals at any speed your comfortable with, she uses all the compassionate mannerisms, and she will let you dictate the pace. If you want conversation or not she will immediately adapt to however you want to play to be comfortable. Let me please clarify the dancing around, the happiness was exhibited in private quarters.
And as far as the player still being in the hole, I guess we all have our different feelings, priorities, etc. That is what makes our country so great. But me personally if I am winning but losing overall I will temper my tokes, but not eliminate if the dealer is showing a willingness to do whatever it takes within the rules to help me win.
A belated Merry Christmas to you and yours.
By using the logic, if a person who normally buys in for 200$ ends up having a bad session and losing "500$ on Wednesday".. buys in for 200$ and quickly is up to 500$ on Thursday should not toke because he is still down 200$ from the previous night.
Therefore... using the same principle... as long as I still owe ANY amount of money on a credit card, rent, car, ANY DEBT TO MY NAME... if I go to a restaurant, than I should NOT tip the waitress/waiter.
In my experience as a dealer:
1. People that are playing the game strictly to make money, do not want conversation with the dealer.
If a player is losing bad... and the person does not have a difference between a gambling bankroll and a life bankroll... it is hard to start up a conversation with the player.
If a player is winning, then it is SIGNIFICANTLY easier to talk to the player. As long as a strictly making money player continues with the back and forth of a conversation then it's good to hold conversation.
2. People that are just on vacation or looking for a small entertainment and playing WELL within their means (extreme example Bill Gates strictly bets 5$ per hand) they are more for entertainment.
If there was a casino that offered a table where a person could bet 1 penny per hand... win or lose, I do not believe that would be life changing money. Betting 1 penny for most people is the same as Bill Gates when he bets 5$ per hand. The point of that... when somebody is not betting with enough money to still make a 'sting' to the person it's much more likely to have conversation.
--
I am an over tipper in general. Not just casinos.. IMO if a player is able to put a quarter of a million dollars at stake, there no reason the player couldn't buy in for an addition 100$ and make 5$ dealer bets. -- Worst case, the player loses 250,100$ ... best case, player wins... and with the amount he was betting... toking 100$ is pretty insignificant to the win
Quote: minnesotajoeSo the guy won a little of a million dollars (which was "only" 4 times his investment) and did not toke, "possibly because he was still down money".
By using the logic, if a person who normally buys in for 200$ ends up having a bad session and losing "500$ on Wednesday".. buys in for 200$ and quickly is up to 500$ on Thursday should not toke because he is still down 200$ from the previous night.
Therefore... using the same principle... as long as I still owe ANY amount of money on a credit card, rent, car, ANY DEBT TO MY NAME... if I go to a restaurant, than I should NOT tip the waitress/waiter.
Totally inappropriate analogy. Money owed on a credit card is not the same as money won. The dealers clearly expected a big dose of swag because a high roller had had a winning session. In other words, they expected hundreds of times more money from THAT winner than they ever got from other winners, and were disappointed and angry when they didn't get what they felt was their "due".
The argument from how much won or lost doesn't hold water. If the dealers think that how much a player won or lost SHOULDN'T affect a decision to toke, then logically, and more importantly, with consistent honesty, they shouldn't expect monster tips when a high roller DOES win. You can't have it both ways: "toke me anyway. even if you lost", but also, "toke me big when you win". The service rendered in either event is the same. For that matter, the service rendered (we hope) to the $5 bettor is the same, and the dealers don't expect a stack of blacks when HE wins. Why does a $5000 bettor have the "obligation" to tip 1000 times as much as the $5 bettor?
The simple fact is that the tipping culture conditions dealers to EXPECT to be toked. This is a direct consequence of their accepting subminimum wages in the first place, in the hope that customers, instead of the casino, will pay their wages. The dealers quickly come to assume that tips are their RIGHT, therefore the bitter resentment when they don't get their "due" from the customers. This all could be avoided by the dealers insisting on, and the casino paying, a decent living wage.
Quote: mkl654321This all could be avoided by the dealers insisting on, and the casino paying, a decent living wage.
I agree.
I think I probably agree, too, but isn't this about equivalent to agreeing that things would be more peaceful if we just ended war worldwide and forever?Quote: only1choiceI agree.Quote: mkl654321This all could be avoided by the dealers insisting on, and the casino paying, a decent living wage.
Quote: mkl654321This all could be avoided by the dealers insisting on, and the casino paying, a decent living wage.
That would only be true if dealers had leverage over the casinos. I would guess that any dealer insisting on a pay raise would be terminated and replaced quite easily. It is my hunch that the system works fine as it is right now. There seems to be no shortage of people wanting to be dealers, there seems to be no shortage of enough players that do tip to keep dealers making enough to want to keep dealing. If the casinos had to pay dealers more, then they would need to find revenue elsewhere to make up for the higher cost to them, more 6:5, cheaper drinks, etc..
Quote: DocI think I probably agree, too, but isn't this about equivalent to agreeing that things would be more peaceful if we just ended war worldwide and forever?
Can we make that a worldwide New Years resoultion?
Certainly. The problem is not in making the resolution but in having everyone keep it.Quote: only1choiceCan we make that a worldwide New Years resoultion?
It would be nice if casinos paid more than below minimum wage to dealers, but that simply does not happen. If there is a dealing position open on the strip, there will be a hundred people trying to get in.
Quote: mkl654321Why does a $5000 bettor have the "obligation" to tip 1000 times as much as the $5 bettor?
I am looking at percentage here. A person that buys in for 100$, has 205$ at end of a shoe and decides to leave and tokes off 5$... that person is "only" toking 5$.. but that is 5% of his buy in.
If a person buys in for 250,000$ and tokes off 100$ .. that is 0.04% of the buy in.
You see here that the lower limit players toke significantly more percentage wise.
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People that or going to toke are going to toke. People that are not going to toke, are not
Quote: minnesotajoemkl654321 you do make good points. I have not stated previously, but I do see your arguement supporting not toking dealers.
It would be nice if casinos paid more than below minimum wage to dealers, but that simply does not happen. If there is a dealing position open on the strip, there will be a hundred people trying to get in.
I am looking at percentage here. A person that buys in for 100$, has 205$ at end of a shoe and decides to leave and tokes off 5$... that person is "only" toking 5$.. but that is 5% of his buy in.
If a person buys in for 250,000$ and tokes off 100$ .. that is 0.04% of the buy in.
You see here that the lower limit players toke significantly more percentage wise.
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People that or going to toke are going to toke. People that are not going to toke, are not
Here's a FREE tip: Tipping dealers is for intimidated schmoes. The weaker the person the higher the tips. None of it is going to change how the cards come out, and how the cards come out is the ONLY important thing in BJ. And tell me the name of a single player who goes into a casino for the purpose of tipping a dealer.
Quote: JerryLoganHere's a FREE tip: Tipping dealers is for intimidated schmoes. The weaker the person the higher the tips. None of it is going to change how the cards come out, and how the cards come out is the ONLY important thing in BJ. And tell me the name of a single player who goes into a casino for the purpose of tipping a dealer.
This is too easy. Name a single person who goes to a restaurant for the purpose of tipping a waiter? None of it is going to change how the food comes out, and how the food comes out is the only important thing in a restaurant. Jerry, I assure you, when I tip it is not because I am an 'intimidated schmoe'. I enjoy having the dealer as my 'partner' for that dollar I put up next to my larger bet. And that's why I do it. Because I enjoy it. You obviously do not tip dealers, as obviously you would not enjoy it. But for you to try to figure out why someone else is doing something, well, just go design a new truckstop, or whatever you do.
Well, Jerry, that certainly isn't my purpose for going into a casino, but it is something that I generally expect to do while I'm there. I seem to be one of those intimidated schmoes that you are talking about. I view tipping service workers with whom I have a fairly extended personal interaction to be a courteous thing to do, and I try to be courteous to most folks. I understand that tipping, at least to casino workers, is not part of your style. I doubt that you intend for your lack of toking the dealers to be a direct discourtesy or even consider it to be such -- it's just not something you do. I don't consider you either weaker or stronger because of that style; you just do many things differently than the way I do.Quote: JerryLogan... And tell me the name of a single player who goes into a casino for the purpose of tipping a dealer.
Quote: SOOPOOThis is too easy. Name a single person who goes to a restaurant for the purpose of tipping a waiter? None of it is going to change how the food comes out, and how the food comes out is the only important thing in a restaurant. Jerry, I assure you, when I tip it is not because I am an 'intimidated schmoe'. I enjoy having the dealer as my 'partner' for that dollar I put up next to my larger bet. And that's why I do it. Because I enjoy it. You obviously do not tip dealers, as obviously you would not enjoy it. But for you to try to figure out why someone else is doing something, well, just go design a new truckstop, or whatever you do.
This is also easy. When you go into a casino you have no idea if you'll win or lose, but you know there's more chance you'll hand over your money than not, ie, a "negative visit". When you go into a restaurant you know you're going to get something good for the money you leave with them, every single time, and if you have a negative visit then there's a chance you will not leave a tip because of it.
You enjoy having a dealer as a "partner"? Well then you're enjoying things exactly as the casino manager scripted out for you, and the only reason they script such scenarios out is because they know you will find handing over your money to them will go that much easier this time, the next time and the next. In other words, you are being used, and there is never an instance in a restaurant where the patron is being used.
Quote: DocWell, Jerry, that certainly isn't my purpose for going into a casino, but it is something that I generally expect to do while I'm there. I seem to be one of those intimidated schmoes that you are talking about. I view tipping service workers with whom I have a fairly extended personal interaction to be a courteous thing to do, and I try to be courteous to most folks. I understand that tipping, at least to casino workers, is not part of your style. I doubt that you intend for your lack of toking the dealers to be a direct discourtesy or even consider it to be such -- it's just not something you do. I don't consider you either weaker or stronger because of that style; you just do many things differently than the way I do.
I agree that I do Doc, and I believe it's because I am a much stronger-willed person than most people who go into a casino.
Whatever reason they have for tipping, doing it gives them something back that isn't financial, but benefits them nonetheless.
Okay, I don't think my tipping will impress that hottie at Third Base, though I sure wouldn't object to her being impressed and to her inviting me up to her room so she could demonstrate the degree to which she has been impressed.Quote: Toes14Whatever reason they have for tipping, doing it gives them something back that isn't financial, but benefits them nonetheless.
In some different and perhaps better world tipping might be non-existent. I would like higher salaries for dealers, not just commission income but it seems that the casinos (and many of the dealers) would not like that. So in the real world are some tippers idiotic drunks? Sure. Some are even believers in Karma and think that it not only exists but is enhanced by tipping. And surely the next blackjack was "purchased" from Lady Luck by that generous tip!
I tip. Its the right thing to do. Its like shaking hands, its no longer a display of lack of weapons, its a formality. Offering a tip is socially acceptable. It has no effect on Karma or Blackjacks or the roll of the dice. It does have an effect on how alert and attentive the dealers are to their tasks. You want your luggage in or out of your room real quick, maybe a tip will affect the speed at which your luggage is transported. You want the dice to land on Eleven, I don't think the tip is going to be of much use. You want the dealers to be alert to that dice roll and to be alert to proper payouts, the tip will help.
Quote: Toes14Jerry - I feel that you are only looking at the financial aspects of this issue. There are other things to consider. Some people tip because it makes them feel better about themselves, or because they enjoy 'sharing the wealth'. I'm sure some guys tip attractive or flirty dealers more on the small chance that it'll help them hook up with that dealer. Or maybe they think it'll impress the hottie sitting at third base at their table.
Whatever reason they have for tipping, doing it gives them something back that isn't financial, but benefits them nonetheless.
I understand all that and it's probably the way things are. But it also means the person doing the tipping isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, because they are there for the purpose of taking the casino for as much as they can, not to be used and abused by casino employees in a way that makes the player feel comfortable about losing.
Quote: JerryLoganThis is also easy. When you go into a casino you have no idea if you'll win or lose, but you know there's more chance you'll hand over your money than not, ie, a "negative visit". When you go into a restaurant you know you're going to get something good for the money you leave with them, every single time, and if you have a negative visit then there's a chance you will not leave a tip because of it.
If a net loss is all it takes to have a "negative visit," then why go to a casino at all? Unless you're a card counter, a poker pro, or a video poker 9-to-5er, you should only be gambling in a casino if you can lose and still have a good time.
For me, the good time is largely a function of the people I'm interacting with. A good dealer can turn a losing blackjack session into a positive experience.
I think that is the premise of a Party Pit, but I think it also applies to a "good personality" situation as well. Yes. A cheerful and attentive dealer can still make it a positive experience even if the player has the expected negative financial outcome.Quote: BingoLongA good dealer can turn a losing blackjack session into a positive experience.
Just as some tipping is expectation some "extra" tipping is reward for personal interaction skills.
But buffet servers versus waitress/waiters of standard restaurants.
Taking my cue from what I see as the group gratuity rate (8 or more people - that sort of thing) the casino sees buffet wait staff as requiring the same percentage of compensation.
Why though? Given two individuals from both venues who are equally deserving of a tip, they both bring drinks, but one takes a more extensive order, and carries the dinner to your table. The typical restraurant waiter/waitress also will always get the brunt of the complaints- the buffet server, may or may not. As you can just get something else, if you don't like something.
But like I said, the casinos seem to advertise the same group rate gratuity for large groups -- meaning as I see it, they value the work the same.
What do you think? i think the buffet server (no offense to any) doesn't deserve the same amount of tip percentage on average.
Who do I think appreciate the tips the most? By far it's the cleaning staff. You'd be amazed at how little it takes to make someones day. 5 bucks to a cleaning lady mopping out the elevators can go a whole lot further in making her day than a couple black chips to a dealer. I generally think that tips are indeed gratuities and should not be expected. However, I will often go out of my way to tip some of the more under appreciated people in the casino industry, not just dealers.
I tend to tip dealers based on how my session is going and I tend to not go overboard. I will tip just enough to make them happy without annihilating my profit margins. I tend to really scale back my tipping if I'm getting my ass kicked, which I think is what most everyone does anyway. Based on the other players I've observed, I'm confident that I'm a good/above average tipper. It has little to do with anything other than the fact that I have worked a job or two where I have been dependent on tips and understand the difference a good tip or in some cases ANY tip can make for persons day even week. If I am in a position where I can afford to tip, I am always happy to do so.
A lot of people make it sound like you are tipping the casino when you are merely tipping individuals.
Quote: PandoI never tip and can never understand why anyone would do it except for exceptional service. I do however sometimes leave loose change in bar but nothing like 10%.
Not sure where you come from but in the USA it is a custom. If you prefer in other countries they just add it to the price but in those cases the server has no incentive to work harder to serve you.
What would you leave for exceptional service. If you are in the USA I don't imagine you go out frequently or to the same place. If you do I can only imagine the amount of saliva that is added to your meals.
I have never seen anyone tip in Macau, whether in a casino or not, other than the above mentioned.
I have never been to USA but I do know about the tipping culture.
Quote: PandoI never tip and can never understand why anyone would do it except for exceptional service.
The reason we tip is that the kinds of workers who get tips are usually paid very poorly. The system is set up these workers get part of their pay from the employer, and part from the customers. That helps the business ensure that customers don't get bad service. More here: https://Easy.Vegas/vegas/tipping-guide
Quote: MichaelBluejayThe reason we tip is that the kinds of workers who get tips are usually paid very poorly. The system is set up these workers get part of their pay from the employer, and part from the customers. That helps the business ensure that customers don't get bad service. More here: https://Easy.Vegas/vegas/tipping-guide
It's even worse for some categories of "service professions", where the federal minimum wage is considerably lower: $2.13/hr, instead of $7.25. If you realize that the waitress serving you your pancakes is getting paid $2 an hour to do so, you might be a tad more inclined to tip her.
It's an asinine thing, the tipping culture, but it is what it is, and any restaurant visit should come with the attendant realization that you, not the restaurant, are expected to pay the employees. It makes no more sense than being expected to slip the bank teller a fiver for every $100 you withdraw, but a LOT of cultural practices make no sense--tipping is about as archaic as putting a bone in your nose, but it will probably persist for quite a while.
Quote: mkl654321Quote: MichaelBluejayThe reason we tip is that the kinds of workers who get tips are usually paid very poorly. The system is set up these workers get part of their pay from the employer, and part from the customers. That helps the business ensure that customers don't get bad service. More here: https://Easy.Vegas/vegas/tipping-guide
It's even worse for some categories of "service professions", where the federal minimum wage is considerably lower: $2.13/hr, instead of $7.25. If you realize that the waitress serving you your pancakes is getting paid $2 an hour to do so, you might be a tad more inclined to tip her.
It's an asinine thing, the tipping culture, but it is what it is, and any restaurant visit should come with the attendant realization that you, not the restaurant, are expected to pay the employees. It makes no more sense than being expected to slip the bank teller a fiver for every $100 you withdraw, but a LOT of cultural practices make no sense--tipping is about as archaic as putting a bone in your nose, but it will probably persist for quite a while.
I don't care how much the waitress makes. She can find another job if she doesn't approve of her $2 an hour wages. Nobody forced me into my job. I came to eat pancakes!
Mkl I agree that tipping is asinine and archaic.
Quote: PandoI live in Asia where tipping is not the norm, other than to leave some loose change (for taxis) or maybe $5 at the end of a meal if it was good. Most staff get paid a "service charge" which is built into the price which is a better way to go in my view.
I have never seen anyone tip in Macau, whether in a casino or not, other than the above mentioned.
I have never been to USA but I do know about the tipping culture.
This I can understand then. In the USA, tipping is assumed in a lot of jobs and people get paid by the bar/restaurant based on the idea that a large amount of their income will be tips. You can pay a waiter half of what you would pay anyone else because they can assume they will be tipped.
I've gone more to tipping when I leave the table. This helps me with a few things. I have a better estimate on what I want to tip at that point. Being there for 2hrs means a lot more to me than 30 minutes. I also know if they were friendly or not.
And then the standard $1 for a drink(if they weren't free, it would most likely be less), 10% ish on a cab ride, $1/bag for storage. I'm paying for the service, not the end result. The service of me sitting at a table and someone going and getting me a drink is worth something :). The service of someone coming to me to pay a hand pay is worth quite a bit less.
Quote: JustJoseQuote: mkl654321Quote: MichaelBluejayThe reason we tip is that the kinds of workers who get tips are usually paid very poorly. The system is set up these workers get part of their pay from the employer, and part from the customers. That helps the business ensure that customers don't get bad service. More here: https://Easy.Vegas/vegas/tipping-guide
It's even worse for some categories of "service professions", where the federal minimum wage is considerably lower: $2.13/hr, instead of $7.25. If you realize that the waitress serving you your pancakes is getting paid $2 an hour to do so, you might be a tad more inclined to tip her.
It's an asinine thing, the tipping culture, but it is what it is, and any restaurant visit should come with the attendant realization that you, not the restaurant, are expected to pay the employees. It makes no more sense than being expected to slip the bank teller a fiver for every $100 you withdraw, but a LOT of cultural practices make no sense--tipping is about as archaic as putting a bone in your nose, but it will probably persist for quite a while.
I don't care how much the waitress makes. She can find another job if she doesn't approve of her $2 an hour wages. Nobody forced me into my job. I came to eat pancakes!
Mkl I agree that tipping is asinine and archaic.
If anyone tips because they are concerned about the pay earned by the servers then they are using it as an excuse for being intimidated into tipping. The 15% or 20% dumb standards mean nothing to me at restaurants. If the service is good or great then I leave what I feel like. If it had more than one flaw I leave nothing. Asia has the right idea and from what I've heard, the service industry people over there actually take pride in serving those of wealth and from the west. Over here you've got a collection of spoiled clowns who think they're owed the world for doing anything and everything. And Obama doesn't help them one bit with his lower class entitlements.
Likewise, tipping hotel cleaning staff is downright stupid. Who cares what those foreigners and minorities make, they're lucky to have a job in this country. The hotel charges me for a room and it better be a CLEAN room each day I'm there or I'll take my business elsewhere. If the hotel pays them poorly then they can check McDonalds or talk to their union steward, I don't give a crap.
If you do not like American society and norms please feel free to visit countries where your tip is included and the waiter has no incentive to serve you. However when you are in America please try to adapt to our society. Keep in mind that the idea of a performance based service industry proceeded the current president.
If you think Asia has such great ideas you are free to go and enjoy the culture but we Americans enjoy paying a person based on performance not along the "party" rankings.
Quote: Wavy70Point blank is those who choose not to tip say lots about this and that and I think that yada yada but when you boil it down they are cheap or living beyond their means and that extra $3 will break them.
If you do not like American society and norms please feel free to visit countries where your tip is included and the waiter has no incentive to serve you. However when you are in America please try to adapt to our society. Keep in mind that the idea of a performance based service industry proceeded the current president.
If you think Asia has such great ideas you are free to go and enjoy the culture but we Americans enjoy paying a person based on performance not along the "party" rankings.
More confusion. Americans have no responsibility to pay a person for the work they perform. That's their employer's job. And just as they have the right to choose jobs and careers they would like to pursue, those of us who prefer not to tip them have the same right not to do that. If you're the type to easily be intimidated by dumb thinking like "OMG, if I don't tip the cashier I'll get a dirty look!" or "the waitor didn't really do that good of a job, but I'm absolutely terrified that if I don't tip he'll give me an embarrassing shout-out as I leave!" or "I just KNOW the floorpeople are going to be saying nasty things about me if I don't give them at least a twenty".
Pure intimidation, through & through. Only weak people succumb to this nonsense, and they're exactly the ones who should be paying through the nose for it.
If you feel that the practice of tipping is intimidating I imagine you would also find simple practices that are common in the USA as down right frightening. In the case that you are a significantly weak minded person who believes that they are being intimidated to tip I would advise them to save the money they use to eat out and spend it on therapy so they don't live in fear of innocuous customs.
To help with the customs of my country since some seem confused you do not tip cashiers in a store.
When I would travel to foreign countries for work I would always look up the common customs of the country I was visiting. I would advise those visiting my country to look into ours. You may not be able to comprehend all of them but rest assured this is how it has been for generations.
Now when Americans don't tip they are either quite ignorant or as I said cheap. They use the old argument that why should I pay them. If it is a moral reason they are not tipping I have to assume they tell the host and server from the start that they are not going o be tipped. If not they are just taking advantage of a situation. But truth be told those who promulgate the no tip idea seldom go out to eat and if they do usually singly or with an intimidated spouse. Most people with a shred of common sense would be mortified and most likely end up paying the tip themselves when they end up with a skinflint for a dinner companion.
This may be helpful to those attempting to learn about my country.
American Customs and Habits
Here in ARIZONA (yes, it's not part of Mexico yet) the "custom" is to one-up your neighbor by loading your driveway up with as many nice cars as possible, and give them a dirty look if you catch them peeking into your yard over a shared brick wall. Our "habits" are even more pronounced. The low class makes sure they spend at least 6 hours at the local Indian casinos each week smoking and feeding the reels and poker machines; the rest of us laugh at them.
Quote: JerryLoganWell then there's the difference between you & I right there. You believe you must do things that you deem customary, and I make up my own mind about them. In other words, you're a follower and probably lower level worker, and I'm not.
Here in ARIZONA (yes, it's not part of Mexico yet) the "custom" is to one-up your neighbor by loading your driveway up with as many nice cars as possible, and give them a dirty look if you catch them peeking into your yard over a shared brick wall. Our "habits" are even more pronounced. The low class makes sure they spend at least 6 hours at the local Indian casinos each week smoking and feeding the reels and poker machines; the rest of us laugh at them.
Uh huh. It's fun on the Internet you can be everything you wish you were huh Jerbear.
But I think the custom to give dirty looks to people "peeking" over fences to spy on neighbors is universal. Seems that you are upset they don't like you "peeking" or peeping my be a more accurate description on them. Not sure where that is acceptable but in America that is the act of a pervert.
But I think we learned a lot about you with your "peeking" habits. It seems that you make up your own mind about right and wrong. These delusions tell you it's OK to stiff workers on a tip however the real danger is that you feel it is OK to go "peeking" in your neighbors yards. Where will it end? We have seen it over and over again on the news with this ilk of "person". It ends up with someone innocent hurt and the perpetrator unable to understand what they did is wrong and vile.
Very glad I don't have kids in AZ.
Quote: Wavy70Uh huh. It's fun on the Internet you can be everything you wish you were huh Jerbear.
But I think the custom to give dirty looks to people "peeking" over fences to spy on neighbors is universal. Seems that you are upset they don't like you "peeking" or peeping my be a more accurate description on them. Not sure where that is acceptable but in America that is the act of a pervert.
But I think we learned a lot about you with your "peeking" habits. It seems that you make up your own mind about right and wrong. These delusions tell you it's OK to stiff workers on a tip however the real danger is that you feel it is OK to go "peeking" in your neighbors yards. Where will it end? We have seen it over and over again on the news with this ilk of "person". It ends up with someone innocent hurt and the perpetrator unable to understand what they did is wrong and vile.
Very glad I don't have kids in AZ.
Our neighbors generally "peep" over our wall when my wife's out at the pool in her bikini. But because she's putting on the years she really doesn't mind. Then comes the part that you misinterpreted: I'm the one who minds, and I don't peep. Unless the neighbors have young girls in their 20's hanging out back, there ain't nothing better over there to look at.
Yes, I'm very capable of making up my own mind about right & wrong and not have to read some book on customs to be able to hang in there.
Quote: JerryLoganand I don't peep. Unless the neighbors have young girls in their 20's hanging out back, .
Point made. I'm sure you have a liberal idea of what 20 is.
Very twisted world isn't it.
