DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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March 6th, 2015 at 10:34:06 AM permalink
Quote: TheBigPaybak

Quote: DRich

IRS suggests dropping casino winnings threshold to $600'''

Link



This would make higher-limit slot playing almost unplayable and would deter such play. It's hard to imagine the casino lobby would somehow allow this to happen...



The casino lobby will fight this hard and hopefully prevail.

The way most places currently handle high limit slots is to have reps in the high limit area writing down on a piece of paper each hit of $1200 or more. At the end of the day they total them up and issue the W2G's. It does require the rep to turn a key on the machine after each $1200 hit.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
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March 6th, 2015 at 10:43:29 AM permalink
People won't want the burden and will gamble elsewhere. I would think this will cause an entire redesign of almost all the slots. They will probably go back to a bonus payout then multiplied paid spins to avoid the threshold Since individual spins won't be cumulative.
In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is the care taker.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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March 6th, 2015 at 11:26:53 AM permalink
It should be illegal to tax any winnings... Even a player who wins a "$10,000 jackpot" really just earned a negative expected value. Everyone who plays any casino games without an 'edge' ends up at the same negative expectation given enough time.

Basically, when I pull a slot machine, before it stops and I win anything, I've already lost money... Every pull you lose money. The fact that a jackpot appeared means nothing as it will all go back and more if you keep pulling.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Deucekies
Deucekies
Joined: Jan 20, 2014
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March 6th, 2015 at 11:35:20 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

It should be illegal to tax any winnings... Even a player who wins a "$10,000 jackpot" really just earned a negative expected value. Everyone who plays any casino games without an 'edge' ends up at the same negative expectation given enough time.

Basically, when I pull a slot machine, before it stops and I win anything, I've already lost money... Every pull you lose money. The fact that a jackpot appeared means nothing as it will all go back and more if you keep pulling.



As utopian and wonderful as that sounds, it just doesn't work that way in this country. Income is income, no matter how likely, and the government is not going to ease up on getting a piece of the action. If anything, they're goin to get more relentless, and they've got the law on their side.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
zoobrew
zoobrew
Joined: Jan 12, 2015
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March 6th, 2015 at 12:19:08 PM permalink
Just a few years ago the brokerage firms said it was to hard to track an individual's capital gain/loss, now the brokerages are required to report all this info and each year more financial instruments have reporting requirements. If the IRS wants its, they and the casinos will find a way to make it work.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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March 6th, 2015 at 12:29:48 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

...Income is income...


That's my point. I can mathematically prove it's not income.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
sc15
sc15
Joined: Sep 28, 2014
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March 6th, 2015 at 12:38:15 PM permalink
This only really affects slot APs.

Ploppy slot players lose all their money back to the casino anyway, so who cares if they get hit with an unnecessary tax burden.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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March 6th, 2015 at 12:56:57 PM permalink
Is is possible the IRS would lose money if they tracked all coin in and out since most people who hit jackpots just pay the taxes on that and don't really keep track of daily wins and loses.

Example avrage joe plays all year and normally loses but dosent really add all that up.
now at the end of the year he hits a big jackpot he's happy and just pays the taxes.

A forced tracking system would wize them up.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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March 6th, 2015 at 1:01:19 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: TheBigPaybak

Quote: DRich

IRS suggests dropping casino winnings threshold to $600'''

Link



This would make higher-limit slot playing almost unplayable and would deter such play. It's hard to imagine the casino lobby would somehow allow this to happen...



The casino lobby will fight this hard and hopefully prevail.

The way most places currently handle high limit slots is to have reps in the high limit area writing down on a piece of paper each hit of $1200 or more. At the end of the day they total them up and issue the W2G's. It does require the rep to turn a key on the machine after each $1200 hit.

Some places don't even have to key it. At least in the past this was the case. They just set the JP lock out threshold higher.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
zoobrew
zoobrew
Joined: Jan 12, 2015
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March 6th, 2015 at 1:15:10 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Is is possible the IRS would lose money if they tracked all coin in and out since most people who hit jackpots just pay the taxes on that and don't really keep track of daily wins and loses.

Example avrage joe plays all year and normally loses but dosent really add all that up.
now at the end of the year he hits a big jackpot he's happy and just pays the taxes.

A forced tracking system would wize them up.



No the IRS could make big money because the amount of standard deduction would now be taxed. You have $60k in income, and you win $15k in small daily wins and lose $20k in small daily losses. On your taxes your income is now $75k and then minus the $15k in losses on Schedule A and net income for taxes is $60k. Currently it would be $60k income and minus standard deduction of $6.2k or $12.4k or net income for taxes of $53.8k or $47.6k. This is just a very simplified example, but the IRS would come out ahead.

Also if the IRS got real aggressive they could start taxing table game winners, by requiring ID for all cash/chip transactions.

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