Poll

8 votes (26.66%)
19 votes (63.33%)
No votes (0%)
5 votes (16.66%)
1 vote (3.33%)

30 members have voted

Minty
Minty
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January 23rd, 2015 at 1:40:50 AM permalink
Hi everyone! I've been reading this forum for a few years now as additional material to some of the blackjack books available. Actually one of the more important things about turning 21 to me was joining this site as a member instead of a long time lurker. I was curious as to what everyone thinks about it being so common for the legal gambling age to be 21. I know there's been brief exchanges about this before, but I haven't seen a thread about it.

In my state, 18 is the legal age to gamble. I haven't seen too many negative repercussions from it, but there are certainly some other college students that really shouldn't be there because of financial considerations and a lack of knowledge on basic strategy.

What are your thoughts? I'm certainly biased and believe it should be 18, but I see both sides.
"Just because I'm not doing anything illegal, doesn't mean I won't have to defend myself someday." -Chip Reese
AxelWolf
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January 23rd, 2015 at 2:24:41 AM permalink
Quote: Minty

Hi everyone! I've been reading this forum for a few years now as additional material to some of the blackjack books available. Actually one of the more important things about turning 21 to me was joining this site as a member instead of a long time lurker. I was curious as to what everyone thinks about it being so common for the legal gambling age to be 21. I know there's been brief exchanges about this before, but I haven't seen a thread about it.

In my state, 18 is the legal age to gamble. I haven't seen too many negative repercussions from it, but there are certainly some other college students that really shouldn't be there because of financial considerations and a lack of knowledge on basic strategy.

What are your thoughts? I'm certainly biased and believe it should be 18, but I see both sides.

I'm all for kids rights. Some kids are smarter and more reasonable than adults.

But morally I think its foolish. They don't need more bad things to deal with. I can't think of one good reason for it. I don't buy the argument that they can die for our country but not gamble and drink. They are doing both anyways.

Perhaps a special cruise or something with limited access would be ok, but 24/7 access to casinos isn't something good.

An 18 year old knowing basic strategy is dangerous, even more dangerous knowing about counting cards. The reality and odds of a successful career is very very slim.
so there's really no reason someone 18 needs gambling in their life. If they are truly talented enough they will know it and find a way to exploit their talents.

If I knew a kid was underage gambling, I wouldn't say anything or care. I was doing it before I was 21 myself.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Dieter
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Dieter
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January 23rd, 2015 at 2:51:24 AM permalink
For many people, the brain's pathways are not finished forming until about age 25.

The brain, while maturing, may be uniquely susceptible to potentially addictive stimuli (like alcohol, nicotine, gambling, crack, meth...).

On the one hand, I'm pro-rights, and if 10 year olds want to shoot dice, go for it. On the other hand, I know how tricky it is to break an addiction, and protecting people is important.

However, that pesky third hand says that the age of majority is 18, and that's what the standard should be - for recreational drugs, gambling, being able to rent a car, etc.
I guess that means that if 10 year olds want to shoot dice, it's got to be Yahtzee. (or Farkle.)
May the cards fall in your favor.
tringlomane
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January 23rd, 2015 at 3:34:28 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

For many people, the brain's pathways are not finished forming until about age 25.

The brain, while maturing, may be uniquely susceptible to potentially addictive stimuli (like alcohol, nicotine, gambling, crack, meth...).

On the one hand, I'm pro-rights, and if 10 year olds want to shoot dice, go for it. On the other hand, I know how tricky it is to break an addiction, and protecting people is important.

However, that pesky third hand says that the age of majority is 18, and that's what the standard should be - for recreational drugs, gambling, being able to rent a car, etc.
I guess that means that if 10 year olds want to shoot dice, it's got to be Yahtzee. (or Farkle.)



I have played Farkel (old spelling) way before it became "cool"; i've played it since I was ten (~25 years now). I learned it from my cousin, who ironically considering your post, has had drug issues, mainly with cocaine. :-\
1BB
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January 23rd, 2015 at 5:12:42 AM permalink
Quote: Minty

Hi everyone! I've been reading this forum for a few years now as additional material to some of the blackjack books available. Actually one of the more important things about turning 21 to me was joining this site as a member instead of a long time lurker. I was curious as to what everyone thinks about it being so common for the legal gambling age to be 21. I know there's been brief exchanges about this before, but I haven't seen a thread about it.

In my state, 18 is the legal age to gamble. I haven't seen too many negative repercussions from it, but there are certainly some other college students that really shouldn't be there because of financial considerations and a lack of knowledge on basic strategy.

What are your thoughts? I'm certainly biased and believe it should be 18, but I see both sides.



Welcome, Minty.

The rule stating that you had to be 21 to join this forum is one of those rules that were made to be broken. When a few members revealed that they were not yet of that age, the rule was never enforced.

I don't think our young people get enough credit these days, especially from the "old guard." Today's 18 year old is wiser, smarter and more responsible than their predecessors, in the humble opinion of this old guy. I'm all for our 18 year old adults being allowed to make the choice to gamble.

What scares the heck out of the casinos is alcohol consumption. If an 18 year old is bent on partaking, no ID, wristband or anything else will prevent them from doing so.

The gambling age in the State of Rhode Island, for example, is 18 while the drinking age is 21. That may be part of the reason that Twin River Casino does not comp alcoholic beverages.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
DJTeddyBear
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January 23rd, 2015 at 5:37:49 AM permalink
In most (all?) states, the minimum age to gamble IS 18. That allows 18-year-olds to play church bingo, purchase lottery tickets, etc.

But because of the free-flowing alcohol, most casinos have a minimum age of 21. If you look at the signs, usually they say 21 to enter. It doesn't say 21 to gamble.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Mosca
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January 23rd, 2015 at 6:19:14 AM permalink
I accidentally flagged DJT's post while working on my iPad, hit the button with my thumb. Sorry. No flag intended.
A falling knife has no handle.
FleaStiff
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January 23rd, 2015 at 6:38:39 AM permalink
I'd love it for it to be 18, but don't expect to see much in the way of negative consequences. Young girls know to go to bartenders and discreetly inform them they have to earn back the college tuition they lost at the casino. A few who do it too blatantly may get arrested. A few of the young men will be arrested for getting drunk. It won't make a major incident anywhere.
zoobrew
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January 23rd, 2015 at 6:57:45 AM permalink
The major consequence is the loss of a liquor license for serving even 1 under age patron. Some states have zero tolerance for it and the bigger and more controversial you are (casinos are targets in some states) the more likely that you will be targeted for enforcement.
ahiromu
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January 23rd, 2015 at 8:11:39 AM permalink
Drinking and gambling at the age of 18. Rec marijuana should also be 18, but that one won't change anytime soon.

I'm 27 and still don't see any practical reason to have a distinction between 18 and 21. I hate to repeat the standard line, but if you can vote, join the military, and go to big boy prison, you should at least be able to drink, gamble, and take a toke.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
AcesAndEights
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January 23rd, 2015 at 8:20:43 AM permalink
Quote: 1BB

I don't think our young people get enough credit these days, especially from the "old guard." Today's 18 year old is wiser, smarter and more responsible than their predecessors, in the humble opinion of this old guy.


1BB, would you mind elaborating on this point? There is a lot of mudslinging going on right now about Millennials and their lazi, self-entitled attitude, blah blah blah. While technically I am a Millennial, I am far removed from the age of 18. However, I'm not sure I would agree with you that today's 18 year olds are smarter and more responsible than those from previous generations.

Mostly I'm curious what has lead you to that conclusion. Not that I'm asking you to cite detailed examples, but just a few anecdotes or generalities would be fine :).
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
zoobrew
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January 23rd, 2015 at 8:39:58 AM permalink
With todays internet and ability to access info almost anywhere, todays 18 year olds definitely have the "ability" to be smarter than prior generations. Whether they use this info wisely and/or responsibly is debatable and up to each individual.
1BB
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January 23rd, 2015 at 8:43:18 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

1BB, would you mind elaborating on this point? There is a lot of mudslinging going on right now about Millennials and their lazi, self-entitled attitude, blah blah blah. While technically I am a Millennial, I am far removed from the age of 18. However, I'm not sure I would agree with you that today's 18 year olds are smarter and more responsible than those from previous generations.

Mostly I'm curious what has lead you to that conclusion. Not that I'm asking you to cite detailed examples, but just a few anecdotes or generalities would be fine :).



The Flynn Effect.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
OzzyOsbourne
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January 23rd, 2015 at 9:20:02 AM permalink
The poll percentages add up to 108%. It used to be 109 though, so its getting closer!
casino's money disappears the execs worry when the wizard is near He turns tears into joy Everyone's happy when the wizard walks by
OzzyOsbourne
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January 23rd, 2015 at 9:21:17 AM permalink
Quote: OzzyOsbourne

The poll percentages add up to 108%. It used to be 109 though, so its getting closer!



Alright if there a tie vote, that percentage gets counted twice. I fixed it by letting everyone know I'm a bigot.
casino's money disappears the execs worry when the wizard is near He turns tears into joy Everyone's happy when the wizard walks by
AcesAndEights
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January 23rd, 2015 at 10:23:33 AM permalink
Quote: OzzyOsbourne

The poll percentages add up to 108%. It used to be 109 though, so its getting closer!


It's a checkbox poll, so each member can select as many options as they want.

The percentage indicates how many forum members checked that specific box. Each could be 100% if everyone checked each box.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
beachbumbabs
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January 23rd, 2015 at 10:30:51 AM permalink
It may be trite, but IMO it's correct. If you can die for your country, or be tried as an adult, you're old enough to do all the rest. With what they now know about brain development, it would be fine with me if the whole threshold moved to 21, but it's a question of fairness otherwise. 18 all around.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Minty
Minty
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January 23rd, 2015 at 10:33:41 AM permalink
It's great hearing everyone's opinions, and refreshing to hear about support for younger people. One of the things I really enjoy about this forum is how diverse it is in terms of age, political belief, religious affiliation and an assortment of other things. About us being more intelligent... I've heard that it isn't so much that we know more, but rather we're taught more about what we need to know for an IQ test. I'm curious as to why many casinos in Vegas have begun IDing as frequently as they have. Have there been issues with many underage gamblers in recent years or was it an arbitrary decision?
"Just because I'm not doing anything illegal, doesn't mean I won't have to defend myself someday." -Chip Reese
Venthus
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January 23rd, 2015 at 10:33:51 AM permalink
I don't think there should be an inherent age restriction at all. Gambling is a personal behavior and, ultimately, an individual is responsible for themselves (or any others they choose to encompass-- but their choice). This doesn't mean that can't enforce it in other ways-- truancy, curfew, casino policy, blacklist durations, etc; I'm referring to a hard enforced legal limit. And I might finally stop getting carded when I try to grab a water...

I'd say that the intelligence curve amongst the the younger generation has flattened somewhat and superficially shifted to the right-- in terms of factual knowledge, there's far more resources out there. However, they have to have the ability to utilize it, and those that use it have to be able to apply it. Before, you could be said to have a talent for mechanics if you could disassemble and reassemble an engine. Now, that talent could be synthesized by looking it up beforehand, something that would've been far more difficult before (and could be considered another skill too). People who can take the knowledge available and have the ability and drive to employ it drive up the right end of the curve.

Quote: Minty

It's great hearing everyone's opinions, and refreshing to hear about support for younger people. One of the things I really enjoy about this forum is how diverse it is in terms of age, political belief, religious affiliation and an assortment of other things. About us being more intelligent... I've heard that it isn't so much that we know more, but rather we're taught more about what we need to know for an IQ test. I'm curious as to why many casinos in Vegas have begun IDing as frequently as they have. Have there been issues with many underage gamblers in recent years or was it an arbitrary decision?



This came up in a recent discussion I had with a dealer regarding an expired driver's license. I've been under the impression an expired driver's license is valid ID, but not for the purposes of driving. She said, at CET at least, it's unacceptable, and they've been cracking down on it since there were about a dozen incidents last year that they caught. The casino, dealer, and floor manager (?) all get fined, so the staff also have incentive to check. (The numbers mentioned were 1000$ and 500$, though a 1k fine to the casino seems a bit low.)
beachbumbabs
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January 23rd, 2015 at 10:38:28 AM permalink
Quote: Minty

It's great hearing everyone's opinions, and refreshing to hear about support for younger people. One of the things I really enjoy about this forum is how diverse it is in terms of age, political belief, religious affiliation and an assortment of other things. About us being more intelligent... I've heard that it isn't so much that we know more, but rather we're taught more about what we need to know for an IQ test. I'm curious as to why many casinos in Vegas have begun IDing as frequently as they have. Have there been issues with many underage gamblers in recent years or was it an arbitrary decision?



Harrah's was more aggressive about this (checking ID's) last week than any time I've ever seen. I asked, and they said an underage person stopped to watch a game at one of their properties recently. For about 2 minutes. Didn't try to play. Just watched. The fine was $70,000.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Dieter
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Dieter
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January 23rd, 2015 at 11:12:38 AM permalink
Quote: zoobrew

With todays internet and ability to access info almost anywhere, todays 18 year olds definitely have the "ability" to be smarter than prior generations. Whether they use this info wisely and/or responsibly is debatable and up to each individual.




That's wiser, not smarter.

Wisdom is the ability to use a known solution to a problem; intelligence is the ability to discover a new solution.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Venthus
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January 23rd, 2015 at 11:15:14 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

That's wiser, not smarter.

Wisdom is the ability to use a known solution to a problem; intelligence is the ability to discover a new solution.



"Intelligence tells you that tomatoes are a fruit. Wisdom tells you not to add it to a fruit salad."
Deucekies
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January 23rd, 2015 at 11:25:01 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Harrah's was more aggressive about this (checking ID's) last week than any time I've ever seen. I asked, and they said an underage person stopped to watch a game at one of their properties recently. For about 2 minutes. Didn't try to play. Just watched. The fine was $70,000.


Holy cow. Do you know what property/what state this happened in? $70,000 for an underage patron who wasn't even a patron. Damn.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
Dieter
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Dieter
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January 23rd, 2015 at 11:30:22 AM permalink
Quote: Venthus

"Intelligence tells you that tomatoes are a fruit. Wisdom tells you not to add it to a fruit salad."



Really? Tomatoes, cucumbers, and bell peppers should make a lovely fruit salad. ;)
May the cards fall in your favor.
Dieter
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Dieter
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January 23rd, 2015 at 11:38:50 AM permalink
Cannot believe that I forgot the avocados and olives.
May the cards fall in your favor.
wudged
wudged
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January 23rd, 2015 at 11:58:34 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Really? Tomatoes, cucumbers, and bell peppers should make a lovely fruit salad. ;)



djatc
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January 23rd, 2015 at 12:48:22 PM permalink
You can die for your country but can't drink nor gamble at a Vegas casino at 18. Messed up priorities.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
Minty
Minty
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January 23rd, 2015 at 12:53:39 PM permalink
Yeah, this idea in particular is one I struggle with. Buying fireworks and tobacco seen a bit more hazardous than gaming to me, but there are exceptions of course. It's interesting to me that there are certain things that are widely supported as we age (e.g. voting and fighting in wars) and others that are frowned upon like gambling and smoking. Drinking is widely accepted in comparison to smoking, though it is almost as problematic. It's all just very strange.
"Just because I'm not doing anything illegal, doesn't mean I won't have to defend myself someday." -Chip Reese
tringlomane
tringlomane
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January 23rd, 2015 at 2:06:32 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Harrah's was more aggressive about this (checking ID's) last week than any time I've ever seen. I asked, and they said an underage person stopped to watch a game at one of their properties recently. For about 2 minutes. Didn't try to play. Just watched. The fine was $70,000.



$70k for watching? LOL

I get carded more in Tunica/Vegas now than I did in 2011. Particularly Tunica. I probably get carded 5 times a trip, up from 1. Horseshoe Tunica gives security pocket ID scanners now.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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January 23rd, 2015 at 4:37:02 PM permalink
Lower it to 15, it doesn't matter. It takes money
to gamble, that's why the average age in a Vegas
casino is 47. I think I read it's 53 in Indian casinos.
They're the ones with the money to gamble with.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
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