Beggar with iPhone (Split from AC forum)
Quote: rdw4potusWould your kid be trying to find ways to limit depravity and unemployment?
I would hope they would come to the conclusion (on my dime) that the 1st thing they had to do to better themselves - is to exit AC.
Remember, most of our ancestors, many at great risk, left the motherland to do better for their families.
It is only a recent phenomenon, that so many feel entitled to sit on their arse in a dead end area, & expect to be handed free $ & healthcare.
Here's a mind blowing experience.
I have been in the past been7star now mid DIA.
I do not own a smart phone simply because I do not see the value proposition - for me personally.
My last trip to Vegas, while passing over a pedestrian bridge, I was flagged down for spare change by a man begging for cash , holding an Iphone!
What a country?
Quote: 7star4nowI would hope they would come to the conclusion (on my dime) that the 1st thing they had to do to better themselves - is to exit AC.
Remember, most of our ancestors, many at great risk, left the motherland to do better for their families.
It is only a recent phenomenon, that so many feel entitled to sit on their arse in a dead end area, & expect to be handed free $ & healthcare.
Here's a mind blowing experience.
I have been in the past been7star now mid DIA.
I do not own a smart phone simply because I do not see the value proposition - for me personally.
My last trip to Vegas, while passing over a pedestrian bridge, I was flagged down for spare change by a man begging for cash , holding an Iphone!
What a country?
I would argue that if your kid had the ability to attain happiness and earn a living while improving AC, then leaving would be the equivalent of giving up and sitting on their arse...
Quote: 7star4now
My last trip to Vegas, while passing over a pedestrian bridge, I was flagged down for spare change by a man begging for cash , holding an Iphone!
What a country?
This is such an illogical sentiment.
What does having an iPhone have to do with whether or not a man is "worthy' to beg for money?
Can he redeem the iPhone for a house? Do you think that having an iPhone makes someone rich?
Used smartphones are not worth all that much. Maybe a few hundred dollars.
And smartphones are the last thing a homeless person should sell. They are often the only link a homeless person has left to friends, family, social services, or the job market.
Yeah, sometimes libraries are open. But the hours are shitty, and they often kick the homeless out.
Trust me, if you were homeless, the last thing you'd want to give up is a cheap way to communicate with what's left of your support network.
Quote: sodawaterThis is such an illogical sentiment.
What does having an iPhone have to do with whether or not a man is "worthy' to beg for money?
Can he redeem the iPhone for a house? Do you think that having an iPhone makes someone rich?
Used smartphones are not worth all that much. Maybe a few hundred dollars.
And smartphones are the last thing a homeless person should sell. They are often the only link a homeless person has left to friends, family, social services, or the job market.
Yeah, sometimes libraries are open. But the hours are shitty, and they often kick the homeless out.
Trust me, if you were homeless, the last thing you'd want to give up is a cheap way to communicate with what's left of your support network.
Homeless people are not usually welcome to loiter inside a business that would have free Wi-Fi. That being stated, in order to keep connected to those family and friends, they would need to have a cell phone plan (including data). Now, if this person has such family and friends to keep connected with, why are they not helping him/her stay afloat (or taking him/her in and caring for them). Wouldn't money collected be better spent on survival than on keeping connected with family and friends (after all, if family and friends are not helping, maybe they know something we don't)
Makes sense to me. Some people might think mine is a smart phone, but it actually only cost $10 at walmart. Perhaps they should hide their phone since it doesn't sell well. Plans are advertised everything $40/month which doesn't seem like a luxury at those rates.Quote: sodawaterThis is such an illogical sentiment.
What does having an iPhone have to do with whether or not a man is "worthy' to beg for money?
Can he redeem the iPhone for a house? Do you think that having an iPhone makes someone rich?
Used smartphones are not worth all that much. Maybe a few hundred dollars.
And smartphones are the last thing a homeless person should sell. They are often the only link a homeless person has left to friends, family, social services, or the job market.
Yeah, sometimes libraries are open. But the hours are shitty, and they often kick the homeless out.
Trust me, if you were homeless, the last thing you'd want to give up is a cheap way to communicate with what's left of your support network.
Quote: rainmanMost homeless people choose to be so, their job is begging, nothing you say or give to them will change that.
Yeah, lazy bastards. Especially the mentally ill ones, the disabled vets, guys just had heart attack, 70-80 year old guys flying a kite to get money for his wife's prescriptions. Yeah, most all of them choose to be so, even on cold winter nights. Glad you let us know.
Thanks. I assume you did not beg to get your hat. ** **** ** **** *** !
Quote: 7star4nowI would hope they would come to the conclusion (on my dime) that the 1st thing they had to do to better themselves - is to exit AC.
Remember, most of our ancestors, many at great risk, left the motherland to do better for their families.
It is only a recent phenomenon, that so many feel entitled to sit on their arse in a dead end area, & expect to be handed free $ & healthcare.
Here's a mind blowing experience.
I have been in the past been7star now mid DIA.
I do not own a smart phone simply because I do not see the value proposition - for me personally.
My last trip to Vegas, while passing over a pedestrian bridge, I was flagged down for spare change by a man begging for cash , holding an Iphone!
What a country?
Not what a country, but what a God-given free will!
Our ancestors choose the right path to America. They provide us with wonderful opportunities to be the best that we can be in USA, i.e., be a Harvard-doctor, Yale-lawyer, MIT-engineer, etc. Fortunately some descendants choose to work hard and become a productive citizen (i.e., Bill Gates). Unfortunately other descendants choose to be lazy, uneducated, unemployable, and become an useless bum/loser who beg for loose coins on the AC Boardwalk or on a LV pedestrain bridge.
Free will is like nuclear energy . Choose to use it the right way as a power generator, it can help you to cook food for dinner, light up your house in the dark, heat your home in winter, etc... Choose to use it the wrong way... as some weapon of mass destruction... on the hands of terrorists, we all need to move to the moon for the next thousands of years.
By the way, free will or NO free will, I don't mind some bums/losers beg for loose changes in AC, but I do mind when they rob people and kill them during robbery. Here is a case circa Summer 2012:
The loser/robber/murderer:
Antoinette Pelzer butchered 2 two Canadian tourists during a robbery attempt near by AC Ballys casino circa 11:30 am.
Antoinette Pelzer
Quote:We know nothing about these homeless people and using these mental shortcuts isn't intelligent thought, it's pure laziness assuming the worst and being confident we're right. Pure bs witches float nonsense all over again.
Whether they choose to beg or feel they've no choice is irrelevant.
They SHOULD NOT BEG in America.
It's unseemly.
Only in the past twenty or so years have large numbers of these worthless humans dared to brazenly panhandle across this fair land of ours.
They didn't they do it earlier, back in the day.
We, The People have recently become *pussified.*
Liberal.
Bleeding heart.
Tolerant.
Weak.
In 2014 America, almost the entire county is poor. Wealth has become so concentrated among the richest of the rich, the middle class is gone.
There's poor, and then a statistically insignificant percentage of people are rich. That's it.
So how do these people stay so rich while so many stay so poor? Why doesn't our democratic system of government force them to give back a little bit of the excess, a little bit of the resources they don't even need and could never use in 100 lifetimes?
Because the super-rich have somehow convinced a large majority of the poor Americans that their problem is not the rich plutocrats who are literally hoarding almost all of the resources, but instead the problem is the "lazy" portion of America's poor, whoever is below them. But this just doesn't add up.
The bottom 80 percent of America, ALL the lazy poor, all the do-nothings, all the "welfare queens" -- 8 out of 10 Americans all pooled together control only 7 percent of the nation's wealth. A rounding error.
It's not only that. The vast majority of Americans not only do not understand why they are so poor, they also do not understand how poor they are. They can't even estimate how big the gap is between the haves and the have-nots.
It's an astounding magic trick that the rich have pulled.
This video should shock anyone who hasn't studied this topic:
Quote: ArtemisNot what a country, but what a God-given free will!
Our ancestors choose the right path to America. They provide us with wonderful opportunities to be the best that we can be in USA, i.e., be a Harvard-doctor, Yale-lawyer, MIT-engineer, etc. Fortunately some descendants choose to work hard and become a productive citizen (i.e., Bill Gates). Unfortunately other descendants choose to be lazy, uneducated, unemployable, and become an useless bum/loser who beg for loose coins on the AC Boardwalk or on a LV pedestrain bridge.
Here's the problem with your logic.
It's not a choice. Even if everyone works as hard as possible, 100 percent of all their effort, there have to be winners and losers. Capitalism ensures that.
It's almost exactly like a poker tournament. Even if every single poker tournament participant made game-theory optimal moves every single hand (working as hard as they can), the structure of the tournament ensures that eventually, the final table has every single chip in the room. Nothing can change that.
Pure capitalism -- by its design and nature -- is a winner-take-all system for the simple reason that it is easier to make more money once you already have some money. Eventually, the money ends up at the top. The more money you have, the easier it is to make even more.
Why do bigger companies buy smaller companies? Heck, why did a bigger company buy WoO and this site for $2.4 million? Are they being charitable? No -- because they have enough money to buy more assets and make even more than they spent on the assets. It's a self-reinforcing process.
Even the USA does not practice pure capitalism. We have some barebones social wealth redistribution like social security, graduated tax brackets, medicaid, medicare, SNAP, and now the Affordable Care Act. Not nearly enough to stop the poker tournament and ensure that the majority of Americans end up with any wealth at all.
The so-called "socialist" countries like many in Northern Europe are doing a lot better job giving their citizens a chance to make a more comfortable living, and almost every quality of life statistic social scientists know about reflects that. Yet many in America mock them.
By the way, you might reply that even if you're dealt a losing hand in the tournament and are born poor, hard work can lift you up -- i.e., "class mobility."
I hate to spoil this for some of the dreamers out there, but class mobility is a myth. It's a myth just like the tooth fairy. Study after study have shown that the vast majority of people are born, live, and die in the same economic class. Those who do "upgrade" their class are outliers, statistical noise.
Don't tell me the poorest of the poor don't work hard. They work harder than anyone. People take buses two hours each way to make $9 an hour washing floors. That's harder work than almost anyone I know is even willing to do.
Quote: BuzzardYeah, lazy bastards. Especially the mentally ill ones, the disabled vets, guys just had heart attack, 70-80 year old guys flying a kite to get money for his wife's prescriptions. Yeah, most all of them choose to be so, even on cold winter nights. Glad you let us know.
Thanks. I assume you did not beg to get your hat. ** **** ** **** *** !
I did say most not all. I have several friends who own construction company's, guess how many of the homeless beggars will come to work with him when he pulls over and asks? ...pretty much none, they already have a job.
I saw a news story about a guy in California who got caught changing his clothes in the back of his 45k suv at the end of his work day on the corner. Estimates are he was making 70k a year.
Was the kite flyer guy overweight? The vets? Malnourishment runs rampant in the homeless population here in the US.
And hell no! I didn't beg for this sombrero, I stole it from a homeless guy. :)
Quote: rainmanI did say most not all. I have several friends who own construction company's, guess how many of the homeless beggars will come to work with him when he pulls over and asks? ...pretty much none, they already have a job.
I'm glad it's none. Why would anyone expect a skilled and dangerous job like construction to acquire its workers by walking up to people on the street? Your friends sound like they run shitty companies.
Would their clients want to pay for expensive construction work knowing some of the workers are being solicited and picked up on the street? Your example is horrible.
Quote:I'm glad it's none. Why would anyone expect a skilled and dangerous job like construction to acquire its workers by walking up to people on the street? Your friends sound like they run shitty companies.
Would their clients want to pay for expensive construction work knowing some of the workers are being solicited and picked up on the street? Your example is horrible.
There are some tasks in construction that require no skill, only effort.
Like schlepping lumber, particle board and other building materials from point to point.
Like using a shovel to dig holes.
Like using a broom to sweep out rooms.
The list goes on.
His point is quite valid: ask one of these bozos holding a "will work for food" sign if they want to work a few hours doing grunt manual labor and they'll refuse.
Maybe not always, though: there have to be at least a handful of beggars somewhere with an ounce of pride and self respect left, but you'll have to look hard to find them.
Indeed, the only pride most beggars feel is when they con someone into giving them money JUST BY ASKING!
Frankly, I don't know who should be put up against the wall first: the beggars, or the idiots who give them anything other than the bird.
Quote: sodawaterI'm glad it's none. Why would anyone expect a skilled and dangerous job like construction to acquire its workers by walking up to people on the street? Your friends sound like they run shitty companies.
Would their clients want to pay for expensive construction work knowing some of the workers are being solicited and picked up on the street? Your example is horrible.
My friends had all the labor they needed they didn't need any more, They were being kind.
I'm pretty sure the guy would have to start at the bottom, push the broom perhaps?
I'm willing to bet he wouldn't be doing anything that would jeopardize the job quality,
most jobs are like this. :)
solicited sounds like prostitution.
What world you living in? every day thousands of workers are picked up of the street and taken
too job sites all across the nation and are helping to build houses. You a homeowner? If so who do you think built it?
My example is spot on, I lived it.
Quote: MrV
Frankly, I don't know who should be put up against the wall first: the beggars, or the idiots who give them anything other than the bird.
I don't blame the beggars, hell it works. I blame the enablers.
I like to share some stories on why some AC dealers/supervisor have worked 16 hours per day.
(1) The story from "Tom".
"Tom" deals cards from 12 noon to 8pm at Ballys. He usually signs out early so that he will get to his next job on time. His 2nd job is at Resorts from 8pm to 4am. His reason for working hard is....to put his daughter thru medical school so that she doesn't become a dealer like himself.
(2) The story from "Lannie".
"Lannie" supervises games from 4am to 12noon at Borgata. His 2nd job is at Caesars, and he deals in dayshift. He says he works hard for the money to pay bills. That's his "unofficial answer". He is a humble man, and he doesn't brag about his kids in Ivey League colleges.
(3) The sad story from "Frannie"
"Frannie" worked in Showboat and Borgata. She almost worked herself to "death" for her family. She has remained comatose due to cerebral thrombosis.
AC parents/dealers may be poor, but when they work hard to provide their kids with a good education (i.e., medical, law, engineering, etc...), the educated kids will likely break the vicious cycle of poverty (They'll not have to beg for changes on the Boardwalk so to speak).
Quote: ArtemisAC parents/dealers may be poor
"Poor?"
No, not poor.
A notch or two above.
You describe hard working, middle or lower-middle class folk.
People with their head screwed on right, who sacrifice their own happiness for the betterment of their family.
The meaning of life is to propagate and do your best to give your progeny the best shot they have at succeeding.
Most of us fall short of this goal, due to selfishness / self-absorbtion, i.e. drugs, drink, and chasing foolish pleasures such as women and*ahem* gambling.
Quote: MrVWhether they choose to beg or feel they've no choice is irrelevant.
They SHOULD NOT BEG in America.
It's unseemly.
Only in the past twenty or so years have large numbers of these worthless humans dared to brazenly panhandle across this fair land of ours.
They didn't they do it earlier, back in the day.
We, The People have recently become *pussified.*
Liberal.
Bleeding heart.
Tolerant.
Weak.
that's an absurd argument.
By that logic religious people should not be able to hand out posters on the street or charaties can't approach you.
Obviously buisness owners have every right to refuse people to enter or stay, but saying people have no right to be on a public street is absurd.
And what do you mean people didn't panhandle back in the day? There have been beggers since ancient history...
Quote: onenickelmiracleWell looks like a new thread brewing.
Yeah good point.
I regret bringing that up.
For the record, the "beggar" with the Iphone was a mid 20's male who appeared to be in excellent physical & mental shape- just had that look that he was just hustling because, if he sat on the concrete people would hand him $, why should he apply himself? If you went to the local Home Depot , there's a line of Mexican laborers just hoping for a few hours work, with no iphones. if you handed them a free iphone, they'd likely sell it to feed their family. Maybe if this kid joined them he'd learn a trade or eventually start his own business (with a language advantage) as some of them will- instead of spending the 1st$50 a month you hand him on his data plan.
I saw an interview years ago in the NYC squeegie days with a guy who called himself an "ATM greeter"- the guys who would stand outside a bank after hours & offer to open the door for you. He made $200/day in tips tax free -way more than the avg middle class worker at the time.
I'm not saying don't give $ to disadvantaged homeless. For myself, I try to recognize between need, & what's really a shakedown, & that if you give someone $ to sit on the sidewalk, as cold as it sounds, realize although your making your ego feel better, you also incentivise them to remain on the sidewalk & not look for better options
Quote: GandlerAnd what do you mean people didn't panhandle back in the day? There have been beggers since ancient history...
I am speaking about the proliferation of dirtbags who stand at freeway offramps and other roadside areas with little cardboard signs which contain their pitch: "Give Me Money!"
I NEVER saw this when growing up (I'm a baby boomer).
Now, it may be this sort of thing happened in the cities, but not in the suburbs where I've always lived, and where this activity currently occurs on a widespread basis.
In my observation it is a relatively new phenomenon.
Blame it on many things, but at the top of the heap is the ACLU, fighting in court for the rights of beggars to beg.
Yeah, "free speech:" I am well aware of the arguments; doesn't mean I have to like it.
*And no, I do not advocate actually shooting people who beg or give to beggars; that was said to emphasize my point in a fit of exasperation over this issue*
Signs saying God Bless Our Troops. What does that have to do with their begging? Nothing, except it's a sentiment many of us may feel, and so it might make us more likely to be moved, and being moved hopefully give the sign bearer money.
Saw a guy once at a busy intersection. He was walking down the rows of cars at the red light holding up a red gas can and holding up his free hand and rubbing his thumb across his fingers. I saw three people give him bills in two minutes. I said to him, "You should have enough for gas now." If he really needed gas don't you think he'd be at a gas station? You can't use this ruse too often. You can't have run out of gas again!
Saw a guy hustling for cash once wearing a leg brace. Sign mentioned his broken leg. If I had the time I would have loved to follow him back to his car to witness his miraculous recovery.
Quote: BuzzardYeah, lazy bastards. Especially the mentally ill ones, the disabled vets, guys just had heart attack, 70-80 year old guys flying a kite to get money for his wife's prescriptions. Yeah, most all of them choose to be so, even on cold winter nights. Glad you let us know.
Thanks. I assume you did not beg to get your hat. ** **** ** **** *** !
A small minority of them fall into this category. Many others end up this way because of choices they MADE & continue to make everyday. America is the land of opportunity but too many throw it away on drugs and pure laziness.
Quote: sodawaterIt's so strange to me to see that the prevailing attitude in America is some sort of class jealousy between poor people and utterly impoverished people.
In 2014 America, almost the entire county is poor. Wealth has become so concentrated among the richest of the rich, the middle class is gone.
There's poor, and then a statistically insignificant percentage of people are rich. That's it.
So how do these people stay so rich while so many stay so poor? Why doesn't our democratic system of government force them to give back a little bit of the excess, a little bit of the resources they don't even need and could never use in 100 lifetimes?
Because the super-rich have somehow convinced a large majority of the poor Americans that their problem is not the rich plutocrats who are literally hoarding almost all of the resources, but instead the problem is the "lazy" portion of America's poor, whoever is below them. But this just doesn't add up.
The bottom 80 percent of America, ALL the lazy poor, all the do-nothings, all the "welfare queens" -- 8 out of 10 Americans all pooled together control only 7 percent of the nation's wealth. A rounding error.
It's not only that. The vast majority of Americans not only do not understand why they are so poor, they also do not understand how poor they are. They can't even estimate how big the gap is between the haves and the have-nots.
It's an astounding magic trick that the rich have pulled.
This video should shock anyone who hasn't studied this topic:
I'd wager that if you took all the wealth from the top 10% and gave it to the other 90%, the Top 10% would rise again and the bottom 90% would go back to where they were as well.
Quote: GreasyjohnI've seen guys at freeway offramps with signs asking for help. Some have looks on their face like they're depressed and forlorn. I get the sense that it's an act. How low one must be in character to try to adopt this outward appearance in order to extract money from strangers.
Signs saying God Bless Our Troops. What does that have to do with their begging? Nothing, except it's a sentiment many of us may feel, and so it might make us more likely to be moved, and being moved hopefully give the sign bearer money.
Saw a guy once at a busy intersection. He was walking down the rows of cars at the red light holding up a red gas can and holding up his free hand and rubbing his thumb across his fingers. I saw three people give him bills in two minutes. I said to him, "You should have enough for gas now." If he really needed gas don't you think he'd be at a gas station? You can't use this ruse too often. You can't have run out of gas again!
Saw a guy hustling for cash once wearing a leg brace. Sign mentioned his broken leg. If I had the time I would have loved to follow him back to his car to witness his miraculous recovery.
When I lived in sunny San Diego, CA, there was a guy who would stand with a sign by the I-5 every day.
His favorite t-shirt to wear read: "I'm about it 'bout it!" (whatever that meant)
So one day I was down near the beach visiting some friends and guess who walks into the apartment wearing his "I'm about it 'bout it!" t-shirt—yup, Mr. Homeless Panhandler — turns out he lives in an apartment one block from the beach right next door to my friends (they even knew about his scam but, apparently, they had no idea I encountered this same guy on a daily basis)
Since then, I give to charities, not individuals.
Quote: aceofspadesI give to charities, not individuals.
and we can argue that at least when you give to an individual you know where the money is going, opposed to charities paying their CEOs millions of dollars. How are some of these charities any better than the beggars?
Quote: GWAEand we can argue that at least when you give to an individual you know where the money is going, opposed to charities paying their CEOs millions of dollars. How are some of these charities any better than the beggars?
So when you give money to an individual, you follow them and see where they spend the money?
Quote: aceofspadesSo when you give money to an individual, you follow them and see where they spend the money?
I've not done that, but I recall watching a "regular" beggar, a guy who was at the same spot at the same time every day, begging at the offramp, walk off and get into the back of a van with what looked like a group of other beggars.
Come to find out (from the local newspaper) that the scam worked like this: somebody provided a place for the beggars to live, and fed them, in exchange for a goodly percentage of their daily takings.
He was being picked up to be chauffered home after a hard days work.
ARGH!
My preferred choice: to the Irish nuns directly. Those nuns know how to redirect my cash to the most needy. Decades ago when I was 10ish, my mom was in financial hardship. She went to an Irish nun for help. That nun gave her some cash. I still repay the "debt" to that 90ish nun every year.
Quote: aceofspades
I'd wager that if you took all the wealth from the top 10% and gave it to the other 90%, the Top 10% would rise again and the bottom 90% would go back to where they were as well.
The nature of our capitalist system means that wealth will concentrate at the top no matter what.
If you're saying the SAME people would climb their way back to the top because of things like character and work ethic, I couldn't disagree with you more.
Making it to the super-rich is a combination of being born in the right family, at the right time, in the right place, luck, and hard work.
It's like winning a poker tournament. You have to be lucky and good.
One can bemoan about concentrated wealth all one wants. Some people will be wealthier, some better looking, some smarter and some healthier then others.
Clearly, we are neither equal in birth nor ability.
But a person of average abilities, who works very hard, reinvests in himself and his/her business can prosper in America. Can he become a so called 1%er in terms of wealth? I would say the odds are against it. Just as they are against he/she becoming a fashion model or professional athlete. Can he/she enjoy what most would consider a comfortable lifestyle? Most certainly. And I have seen it happen numerous times.
Only in America can you be called poor if you are over-weight, drive a car, live in a air-conditioned house and own both a smart phone and flat screen T.V.
Many of these luxury items were unheard of just a few decades ago.........
Quote: dave12038457Since the very beginning of time mankind has experienced social-stratification. Some Hunter gatherers were better at hunting and gathering then others.
One can bemoan about concentrated wealth all one wants. Some people will be wealthier, some better looking, some smarter and some healthier then others.
Clearly, we are neither equal in birth nor ability.
But a person of average abilities, who works very hard, reinvests in himself and his/her business can prosper in America. Can he become a so called 1%er in terms of wealth? I would say the odds are against it. Just as they are against he/she becoming a fashion model or professional athlete. Can he/she enjoy what most would consider a comfortable lifestyle? Most certainly. And I have seen it happen numerous times.
Only in America can you be called poor if you are over-weight, drive a car, live in a air-conditioned house and own both a smart phone and flat screen T.V.
Many of these luxury items were unheard of just a few decades ago.........
The phrase "average abilities" precludes greatness other than by luck.
Of course one must have extraordinary abilities in a certain area (looks, talent, intelligence) to prosper (aside from luck or inheritance)
A few hundred years ago, the richest people on earth would die of a simple bacterial infection because we hadn't yet developed antibiotics.
Having "luxury" items (as defined by their lack of existence in the past) is not an indicator of wealth.
Relative net worth is an indicator of wealth.
If there are 10 people in a room and $100 to split, in America 2 people would have $93 and the other 8 would share the remaining $7.
That's not a fair distribution of wealth no matter how "hard-working" anyone in that room is.
If it's not "motivating" for you to be 10 times better off than average, it does no good for the chance to be 10,000 times better than average.
The fact is that wealth and resources have diminishing utility. The difference between $0 and $10,000 is WAY bigger than the difference between $5.00 million and $5.01 million.
We would be better off as a society (i.e. to maximize the utility of our resources) if wealth were distributed on a much flatter curve.
"Quote: aceofspadesThe phrase "average abilities" precludes greatness other than by luck.
Of course one must have extraordinary abilities in a certain area (looks, talent, intelligence) to prosper (aside from luck or inheritance)
" I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more of it I have"
Thomas Jefferson retirement papers.
Quote: dave12038457""
" I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more of it I have"
Thomas Jefferson retirement papers.
Strange, you never see quotes published by poor people who never became famous that say:
"No matter how hard I work, I can't get ahead."
Which is 80 percent of the country.
You're looking at a biased sample of people who have made it. You don't see all the "unseen" hard-working failures.
The book "Black Swan" discusses this at length, I highly recommend it. And it was written by a rich guy born into a rich family!
Quote: sodawaterWealth is relative.
A few hundred years ago, the richest people on earth would die of a simple bacterial infection because we hadn't yet developed antibiotics.
Having "luxury" items (as defined by their lack of existence in the past) is not an indicator of wealth.
Relative net worth is an indicator of wealth.
If there are 10 people in a room and $100 to split, in America 2 people would have $93 and the other 8 would share the remaining $7.
That's not a fair distribution of wealth no matter how "hard-working" anyone in that room is.
If it's not "motivating" for you to be 10 times better off than average, it does no good for the chance to be 10,000 times better than average.
The fact is that wealth and resources have diminishing utility. The difference between $0 and $10,000 is WAY bigger than the difference between $5.00 million and $5.01 million.
We would be better off as a society (i.e. to maximize the utility of our resources) if wealth were distributed on a much flatter curve.
Who determines what is fair? Is it fair that I am not 7ft tall and able to dunk and make millions in the NBA? Is it fair I was not born into the British Royal Family? Life is not fair…ice is not about equality…life is about making the most out of your own abilities.
Some people choose to do nothing…but we all have an ability to do something.
Quote: aceofspadesWho determines what is fair? Is it fair that I am not 7ft tall and able to dunk and make millions in the NBA? Is it fair I was not born into the British Royal Family? Life is not fair…ice is not about equality…life is about making the most out of your own abilities.
Some people choose to do nothing…but we all have an ability to do something.
Even if we don't exactly agree on what is "fair," we can definitely do better than this unfair distribution of wealth we have now.
Even without arguing the morality of work-ethic, can we at least agree that concentrating so much of society's resources into the hands of a few who could never use them even if they wanted to, is not the way to maximize the economic utility of resources?
It's just a simple problem of diminishing utility. Better for a lot of people to have a little than for a few people to have almost everything.
Quote: sodawaterEven if we don't exactly agree on what is "fair," we can definitely do better than this unfair distribution of wealth we have now.
Even without arguing the morality of work-ethic, can we at least agree that concentrating so much of society's resources into the hands of a few who could never use them even if they wanted to, is not the way to maximize the economic utility of resources?
It's just a simple problem of diminishing utility. Better for a lot of people to have a little than for a few people to have almost everything.
Survival of the fittest - those who make something of themselves seek to acquire such wealth for future generations — this allows their future descendants an easier time of it. Biological life is about procreation and genetic survival — acquiring wealth helps (not guarantees) that future generations will survive.
Quote: sodawaterEven if we don't exactly agree on what is "fair," we can definitely do better than this unfair distribution of wealth we have now.
Even without arguing the morality of work-ethic, can we at least agree that concentrating so much of society's resources into the hands of a few who could never use them even if they wanted to, is not the way to maximize the economic utility of resources?
It's just a simple problem of diminishing utility. Better for a lot of people to have a little than for a few people to have almost everything.
Can you tell me what you see as "unfair" about it and what you would do about it? Limited salaries? Make those who have it, give it to others? Pay 90% Income tax? How "fair" is that?
Quote: aceofspades
I'd wager that if you took all the wealth from the top 10% and gave it to the other 90%, the Top 10% would rise again and the bottom 90% would go back to where they were as well.
All? All?? All?!? We have a bet. I just need to prove that there's one incompetent dunce of a trust fund baby among the 10% to win. Easiest victory ever.
It seems to me that the only real difference between the wealthy and the others is that the wealthy have more money.
Otherwise we all face the same problems / issues in our daily life, things that ultimately are not tied to wealth.
Take the most important: finding a mate, procreating, and being satisfied in the process.
Look at all the rich cats who get hosed in divorces, victimized by gold diggers, and use their money to numb themselves with great food, booze and drugs.
In fact I suspect that having a lot of money leads to a not so good place: fear.
Fear of losing it.
Fear of people only liking you for your money.
Emerson, Lake and Palmer nailed it: Lucky Man
Quote: onenickelmiracleI think there was a study stating the magic threshold was around $75,000/year and more money didn't help improve happiness after then.
One of the best things my father told me was "Money doesnt buy happiness...but there is a hell of it out there for rent". Wise words.
On the 75K number, I wonder if that was as a family or couple, or as an individual? I contend that most 2 person working families can make $75K with some effort on their part. Sure you are not going to make it as the cashier or grill cook at McD's, but if you work hard you probably can be a shift manager quickly. IF you are willing to work any shift required and dont complain.
C-Stores in PA are always looking for AM's and Managers starting at mid 30's, without a college degree required. Again you may have to work more than 40 hours as a salaried employee (against Liberal beliefs), but 2 people working like this can make a decent living of $75K. Not sure if that is the magic number for happiness or not, but it is available to almost anyone with hard work and effort.
