Catholic Festival Games

This weekend is the annual festival at a large Catholic church near my house. They have the traditional midway carnvial, all the fattening carnival foods, a lot of good live bands (traditional rock), LOTS of cold beer and cocktails....and of course, the Vegas room. I'm not Catholic, but they sure do know how to put on a good party.

I haven't played in the Vegas room for a few years, and can't remember the details of games offered and rules. Obviously, since the entire thing is a fundraiser for the church, the rules are incredibly unfavorable for the player. I think I had only played B/J before, and the only thing I remembered was the dealer won on ties.

Anyway, I'm going to be headed over tonight, and beyond eating, drinking & listening to music, I'll probably play a few games. I'm curious, have any of you been to any similar type festivals (or Monte Carlo nights for charities). If so, what games did they offer and under what rules?

Not only have I attended, I help out with dealing and running them on occasion. Case in point, I will be dealing Blackjack tomorrow (June 5 2010) for about 5 hours. I am located in Louisville, Kentucky, so different locales may have different rules and games.

Summer Church Picnics
Most of the gambling games at a summer church picnic are not too involved. They will have Blackjack, Beat the Dealer, Big Six (dice or wheel versions), Horse Race wheel, and Showdown Poker. Some will have 6-player Texas Hold'em cash tables.

Blackjack: Dealers take ties (except for Blackjack vs. Blackjack, it is a push). Dealers stay on all 17s. Sometimes insurance is offered. Double on anything. Splits are capped at 4 hands usually, and aces are split ONCE, with each hand getting ONE CARD only, with no Blackjack payouts on those hands. Minimums can be $1, $2, or $5, and maximums can be $10, $20, or $25.

Beat the Dealer: Players bet $1-$5, dealer rolls dice. 2 is automatic win for all players, 12 is automatic loss. 7 means you can double your wager if you want. Each player in turn rolls to attempt to BEAT the dealer. Ties lose. Pays 1-1.

Big Six: Limits are usually $0.25 to $2.00. Bet on a number 1-6, get paid for each time that number appears on a roll of 3 dice. Sometimes a wheel is used; Each space shows 3 dice, and is usually right in tune with the same odds 3 dice would give you. However, the wheel only has somewhere between 30-60 spaces, not 216.

Horse Race Wheel: Players wager between $0.25 and $2.00 on a horse number 1-10. A wheel with 50 spaces is spun. Each block of 5 spaces is assigned to a horse number, and each of those 5 spaces has "odds" on them, such as 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7. Players betting on the winning horse get paid back based on the "odds".

Showdown Poker: Usually very popular. 6-10 player bet the same amount, anywhere from $1-$5, on their spot. A fresh deck of cards is used, and each player is dealt one card down the line. Repeat until each player gets 5 cards. Winner receives the sum of all player bets, minus 1 to 2 units for the house rake. No discards, no raises, no down-cards, just straight face-up 5 card stud, if you will. All luck.

Texas Hold'em: Rake and limits widely vary from church to church. Antes might be used. Example: Everyone ante $1, church instantly takes $2-$3 rake, and rakes no more that hand. Example 2: No ante, church rakes $1 per $5-$10 bet during the hand. Limits can be $1-$2, up to $5, and rarely no-limit.

Monte Carlo Nights
These are usually held at churches as well, but occasionally can be held at other venues, such as Elk Clubs or schools. These lately center around a No Limit Texas Hold'em tournament, and have other games on the side. These games include Blackjack, Hold'em cash games, and sometimes Roulette. Craps is extremely rare... I've seen a Craps table at a function like this once in 20 years. Beat the Dealer and Showdown Poker are sometimes present. Another once-seen rarity was Caribbean Stud, with a heavily edited pay table. Game descriptions for Monte Carlo nights fit the above Church Picnic blurbs.

Roulette: Double-zero, plays like Vegas, no rule-changes I am aware of. Not sure of limits. I was helping at an event where a big win at Roulette nearly halved the profits of the night. Roulette is not used at that particular location for their Monte Carlo nights any longer.

Hold'em Tournament: I ran a tournament twice for a church, and it played out like most tournaments. The only caveat for ANY charitable event in this state is that it must finish in 6 hours. Therefore, the blinds went up by double approximately every 2 levels, with each level being 15-20 minutes. If players remained in 6 hours, they would be paid based on chip count. The buy-in ranges from $50 to $200, with 60-250 players.

A decent place to see Tournaments and Monte Carlo night for Louisville is Derby City Poker. One game in September shows them offering multiple casino games (Blackjack, Let It Ride, 3 Card Poker, Caribbean Stud, PullTabs worth $599.00).

The only times I've ever been to a charity casino night, you purchased funny money, and attempted to accumulate that, which was then used for an auction at the end.

As such, they used very liberal rules.

It sounds like your church is doing a CASH casino. I REALLY thought that would be illegal. Regardless, if ties lose in BJ, I wouldn't play it at all. If they have Roulette, it probably pays 31:1. Craps payouts are probably reduced too.

Bottom line: Go in the fun house, pop a few balloons, eat a few zeppoles, have a beer, but run like hell when you see the Vegas room.

Thanks for the info!

I can't imagine there are enough people with the knowledge to deal craps to expect them to have that...though I would think that maybe a extremely simplified version of craps could be offered. Maybe just pass/DP and some place bets, while simplifying the odds payouts (at the benefit of the church).

Quote: DJTeddyBear

The only times I've ever been to a charity casino night, you purchased funny money, and attempted to accumulate that, which was then used for an auction at the end.

As such, they used very liberal rules.

It sounds like your church is doing a CASH casino. I REALLY thought that would be illegal. Regardless, if ties lose in BJ, I wouldn't play it at all. If they have Roulette, it probably pays 31:1. Craps payouts are probably reduced too.

Bottom line: Go in the fun house, pop a few balloons, eat a few zeppoles, have a beer, but run like hell when you see the Vegas room.

Yeah, its an actual cash casino. Indiana legalized this for churches and other charity events years ago. I don't think anyone expects to go there to try to make a big win...plus the limits are really low, if I remember right it was $2 or $3 for B/J. But I also rememeber the dealers were quite liberal, and if you were on a bad stretch of cards they may "forget" to collect your losing bet, or pay you out on a tie. Its not like there are pit bosses looking over everyone's shoulder.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

The only times I've ever been to a charity casino night, you purchased funny money, and attempted to accumulate that, which was then used for an auction at the end.

As such, they used very liberal rules.

I've been to those as well, and I agree with that. I even dealt at a "funny money" Blackjack table and was quite fast and loose with payouts. Some have auctions at the end, and some have a "store" where you can spend the funny money you earned over the night.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

It sounds like your church is doing a CASH casino. I REALLY thought that would be illegal. Regardless, if ties lose in BJ, I wouldn't play it at all. If they have Roulette, it probably pays 31:1. Craps payouts are probably reduced too.

Bottom line: Go in the fun house, pop a few balloons, eat a few zeppoles, have a beer, but run like hell when you see the Vegas room.

There are Charitable Gaming Laws in place for Kentucky, and gambling for cash is ok. Some churches have you buy chips or paper money, but you can turn exchange it for real money at any time. Go figure. I am unsure if the law says you have to exchange for chips/"bills", or if it's ok to just put up cash. I've seen both. Apparently, it's also part of the Charitable Gaming Laws that no dealer drinks before or while on duty. Not all churches seem to be aware of that. They are also going to be taken advantage of quickly.

As for the professionalism and skill level of dealers at these events: They range from pretty good to downright awful. Another thread has me lamenting about Blackjack dealers shifting cards back on misdeals, but it's mostly the speed and counting skills that are the problem. I have the speed thing down pat. I can deal at LEAST half the speed or faster of a professional at a casino. Some people deal one card every 3-5 seconds. Think about that. 6 players + dealer, each getting 2 cards, that's 45 seconds to over a minute per hand, just to deal. With a shoe, a lot of folks aren't taught the proper way to do it, and pull cards out one handed. Also, counting the pips and telling people their hand value is mostly second nature to me, there are times where I will count it out loud when my brain locks. Some dealers have a tough time with aces, and every hand must be practically counted on their fingers. Being volunteers, sometimes you get what you pay for.

Quote: Dween

There are Charitable Gaming Laws in place for Kentucky, and gambling for cash is ok. Some churches have you buy chips or paper money, but you can turn exchange it for real money at any time. Go figure. I am unsure if the law says you have to exchange for chips/"bills", or if it's ok to just put up cash. I've seen both. Apparently, it's also part of the Charitable Gaming Laws that no dealer drinks before or while on duty. Not all churches seem to be aware of that. They are also going to be taken advantage of quickly.

Haha...I'll attest to that. I don't think I once had a dealer at one of these that wasn't at least sipping on a beer the entire time.