WinStar Casino, Oklahoma
Table games - 50 cents per hand ante. This fee is never waived at any time at this location.
6300 slot machines. I forget what class, but I know some or all are based on bingo patterns.
Nice roomy poker room. 10% up to max $5 rake with $1 bad beat drop also. $1 of any small blind is dropped before the deal so if you play 1-2 No Limit then the small blind would lose that dollar in a chop situation. (Their poker room is on the Bravo Live app if you want to see what games are spread.)
Actually has a bingo room that I don't know anything about and also an off track betting room if you like the horses.
I've heard these Southern Oklahoma casinos have amazing action. All that oil money coming up from Texas -- they are enormous gamblers. You can do very, very well down there.Quote: Dicenor33Amazing poker. I believe this is the only place in America where people should play the game. No arm twisting by a bunch of crooks. When you hold the button, the pot is usually yours, you not facing seven freaks stealing your money.
Another poster already mentioned it, but I will reiterate. To my knowledge, all OK casinos (unless during a particular promotion, etc.) charge an ante per hand. That means you pay a fee for each table game hand you play. For example, if you want to play blackjack at $5 a hand, you pay a separate $.50 for each hand you play. Average 60 hands per hour = $30 you are paying separate and apart from winnings / losses. What a rip-off and is why I refuse to give OK any of my action - on principle!
If you're travelling west, hold out for New Mexico or Colorado, where no ante per hand is expected. Likewise, if travelling east, Louisiana does not charge an ante per hand.
OK is also one of those states that doesn't allow dice games - craps is played with several modified decks of cards - Lameo!!!
My advice - keep going, regardless of direction!
Best of luck!
Quote: newshooterAnother poster already mentioned it, but I will reiterate. To my knowledge, all OK casinos (unless during a particular promotion, etc.) charge an ante per hand. That means you pay a fee for each table game hand you play. For example, if you want to play blackjack at $5 a hand, you pay a separate $.50 for each hand you play. Average 60 hands per hour = $30 you are paying separate and apart from winnings / losses. What a rip-off and is why I refuse to give OK any of my action - on principle!
Seriously? A 50 cent ante for Blackjack? That's ridiculous. I've never even heard of that.
Quote:If you're travelling west, hold out for New Mexico or Colorado, where no ante per hand is expected. Likewise, if travelling east, Louisiana does not charge an ante per hand.
I live within a couple of hours of several Mississippi casinos that offer good rules/conditions for a player like me. I'm not desperate enough to play bad conditions somewhere else. I was in Orlando this summer and drove over to the Seminole Hard Rock in Tampa to play one evening. I walked in and noticed that the Blackjack tables were all stocked with CSM's. I walked right out and drove back to Orlando without playing a hand.
I will be passing by the WinStar this November on a major midwestern road trip. I'm starting and ending in Dallas and will pass through Oklahoma. Even if the place had ideal rules/conditions, I wouldn't play for more than an hour or so before getting back on the road. As it is, from what people have said on this thread, I will probably just stop by and take a quick look around and then go on my way.
Quote: WandererAnyone been to this casino on the Texas/Oklahoma border? If so, what do you think of it? I will be passing through the area in November and might stop by for a bit.
In terms of number of slot machines, WinStar is the largest casino in the world. That is the only attraction they have.
If you want to actually play at any tables or machines, go to other states for a real casino.
Oklahoma state law requires that the ante be "paid" in order to have the right to play. I've never known Winstar or the other Choctaw casino in the Southwestern portion of the state to waive or pay the ante for the player. However, the Osage tribe and the Creek Tribes in the Northeastern portion of the state, specifically in Tulsa. routinely pay the ante for the player Sundays - Wednesdays. Additionally, the Quapaw tribe, who owns the Downstream Casino on the Oklahoma - Missouri border, pays the ante every day of the week. As an avid blackjack player, I'd never play at Windstar because of the ante and because each table has CSMs. However, I like playing double-deck in the Tulsa area at both the Creek & the Osage casinos on days with no ante.Quote: newshooterTo my knowledge, all OK casinos (unless during a particular promotion, etc.) charge an ante per hand.
Quote: FleaStiffI hear Oklahoma has such raw deals that its better to just keep going and save your money for Vegas where you get more bang for your buck.
Have you ever bought a food item at a 7-Eleven?
That's not the reason. The true reason is that the state already knows that dice and roulette wheels are much more "sinful" than cards.Quote: Dicenor33Craps uses cards instead of dice. It suppose to reduce addiction. Well, government knows best.
Winstar is pretty awesome. It's huge (like, Foxwoods big) and has multiple themes. But, it requires an ante everytime all the time. The poker room is crazy-busy, especially on weekends. Last time I was there, my friend spent the first 2 hours of our 3 hour visit just sitting on the list for a seat.
Casinos by Durant and by Wichita Falls (TX) are barely farther from Dallas and have better rules (like no ante...).
If poker is your only game, it's very easy to find action in Texas. Just find any fraternal lodge or firehouse and talk your way into their game.
Quote:Winstar is pretty awesome. It's huge (like, Foxwoods big) and has multiple themes.
I have heard a lot about Foxwoods. How does it compare to the high-end Vegas casinos?
Quote: WandererSeriously? A 50 cent ante for Blackjack? That's ridiculous. I've never even heard of that. .
I'm not a blackjack expert but I was under the assumption that this type of blackjack was Class II. The house makes it's money off the 50 cent commission, but is not allowed to keep any of the winnings in the game itself. The money is returned to the players usually through promotions.
The first time I seen the 50 cent ante game was at Sandia in Albuquerque in 1995. It was an 8 deck game and anyone who made 4 blackjacks in a row won a $40,000 car.
Quote: doubleluckOklahoma state law requires that the ante be "paid" in order to have the right to play. I've never known Winstar or the other Choctaw casino in the Southwestern portion of the state to waive or pay the ante for the player. However, the Osage tribe and the Creek Tribes in the Northeastern portion of the state, specifically in Tulsa. routinely pay the ante for the player Sundays - Wednesdays. Additionally, the Quapaw tribe, who owns the Downstream Casino on the Oklahoma - Missouri border, pays the ante every day of the week. As an avid blackjack player, I'd never play at Windstar because of the ante and because each table has CSMs. However, I like playing double-deck in the Tulsa area at both the Creek & the Osage casinos on days with no ante.
You're right (of course, you knew that) about the Downstream. I forgot that they do not charge the player an ante. It's just so far from where I live (furthest part of the state), that I wouldn't consider driving there just to play blackjack. However, I still believe that (paying an ante per hand) to be the case at the Winstar. A phone call to someone in table games can confirm that easily.
Quote: rdw4potusCasinos by Durant and by Wichita Falls (TX) are barely farther from Dallas and have better rules (like no ante...).
I believe the closest OK casino to Wichita Falls, Texas, is the Kiowa casino, located north on I-44, just off of exit 1 in OK. Last time I was there 2 - 3 years ago, they charged the 50 cent ante per hand at blackjack and 3CP, and I assume all table games.
If they've changed that, I'd like to know, as I travel by there occasionally and would consider playing, so long as no ante was required.
Quote: newshooterI believe the closest OK casino to Wichita Falls, Texas, is the Kiowa casino, located north on I-44, just off of exit 1 in OK. Last time I was there 2 - 3 years ago, they charged the 50 cent ante per hand at blackjack and 3CP, and I assume all table games.
If they've changed that, I'd like to know, as I travel by there occasionally and would consider playing, so long as no ante was required.
Kiowa did not charge an ante when I was there. I'm not sure if that was because I was there at the right time, or if the rule had changed between our visits.
Quote: rdw4potusKiowa did not charge an ante when I was there. I'm not sure if that was because I was there at the right time, or if the rule had changed between our visits.
Out of curiosity, I called Kiowa last night - the player's club transferred me to a young lady in table games. I asked about the ante and she advised it was required and that they have had promotions in the past where the ante was not required, but that she didn't see them getting that (promotion) back.
I also stopped at a casino called the Kansas Star about 200 miles north of the WS. Nice place. Six deck games were okay and there were plenty of free chairs. No DD games at all.
I go there 5 or 6 times a year. I only play poker there. They have a big poker room and run tournaments most days if you like them. My poker buddy likes them so we usually go when they have a tournament. He lives in north Texas so it is convenient to go up there when he is going to be happy and I have a place to stay..
The last time I walked out into the casino they had a .50 ante per hand on BJ. So I have never played BJ there. It could have changed over the years but I doubt it. The place is packed during the week. So, why change anything?
The poker room is big and they have a waiting list for most games. The slot machines are plentiful but I saw mostly penny slots. I didn't look at VP. I wish I had. But the "ante" pissed me off so much that I didn't look very carefully.
I'll most likely be traveling up there next month. If you need more detailed info I can give it if I know what you're looking for.
I play poker at Choctaw too but have never been outside the poker room there. Indian casinos don't have a regulating authority. They regulate themselves so I only play poker at them. They get their rake, but they all do.
I haven't been to Lucky Eagle in Eagle Pass yet. They used to just have slots so I wasn't interested. Now they have a full purpose casino with table games and a poker room. They have built a big hotel too. It's surprising since the governor had blocked every attempt for them to open a casino for years. He went so far as to say there would never be casino gambling as long as he is Governor. And the Indians had signed their rights away years ago, somehow. I guess they found a way around it.
Sometimes casinos are only are allowed to make money from commissions. That can be a good thing.Quote: texasplumrJust another way to take your money, I guess.
Quote: AxelWolfWhy do they take an ante?
Quite a few tribal casinos do that. I always avoid those kind of places.
But WinStar is the world's largest casino, worth a visit.
I guess it's easier to rebuild after a tornado.
If that's the case, I understand. If not WOW!
Quote: AxelWolfWhy do they take an ante?
I believe it was an agreement with the state and that all antes went directly there. Casinos have waived the ante upon presentation of a player's card or as a promotion but they still have pay the state.
so the state gets ante and casinos take the HA?Quote: 1BBI believe it was an agreement with the state and that all antes went directly there. Casinos have waived the ante upon presentation of a player's card or as a promotion but they still have pay the state.
Quote: AxelWolfso the state gets ante and casinos take the HA?
Another story was that all antes collected were to be returned to players in the form of promotions. What could go wrong there?
No one has ever recalled being given anything under those conditions.
I always assumed that they kept the ante and gave back the HA. Some places have done this and the promotions can be extremely good. I like that scenario I wish all of vegas did that.Quote: 1BBAnother story was that all antes collected were to be returned to players in the form of promotions. What could go wrong there?
No one has ever recalled being given anything under those conditions.
Supposedly it pays for the various promotions offered by the casinos. If they actually do use it for various promotions, that's a very good thing. If the state actually required them to do so. I'm all for it.Quote: rodeo101Winstar is a great casino with several thousand slot machines and many different table games. They do charge the 50 cents per hand on table games which is a bit annoying since it is in no way an Oklahoma law or required by the state. The money does NOT go to the state for education as you will be told by the people at the casino. There are several casinos in Oklahoma, mainly around Oklahoma City, that do not charge this ante. The ante is nothing more than pure profit for the casinos in Oklahoma. Supposedly it pays for the various promotions offered by the casinos...
Card games (poker, texas hold'em etc) and table games (blackjack, 3 card poker, ultimate texas hold'em, pai gow etc) in Oklahoma indian casinos are compacted games, and are the only games approved for play in the state at this time, that's why we don't have dice or roulet games etc as those are true class III games not covered in the compact agreement.
Compacted gaming means the tribe has signed a gaming compact with the state in which they pay from between 4% to 20% of their gross net depending on amount made from compacted card/table games and slot machines (aka class III slots , non server based electronic instant bingo style bingo games), (class II slots are server based electronic bonanza style bingo games and are not compacted games).
So compacted indian casino table/card games are not true class III games in the classic Vegas casino style in which the patron is playing for the house's money,
But instead they are player backed games, in which the chips you see in the table tray belongs to the players (it's what the players have lost durning the course of play),
Hence is the reason you see the posted "player's pool amount" somewhere on the casino floor in a prominent location; (if you've never seen it, then ask the pitboss next time what the player's pool amount is for that day).
Since the amount in a player's pool is not the casino's funds, it constitutes a liability to the casino and has to be returned to the players through promos, daily play, tournements, comps etc to the table/card players,
The casino is allowed to take 10% of the total pool amount for maintenece fees, expenses, advertizing etc.
So, to answer your question, the $.50/hand commission is what the house makes from the play of cards/table games, with that they pay their dealers wages, pit bosses/floor workers wages, uniforms etc. and if they've dealt enough hands to cover that, then the rest is profit."
The ante is not required by the state of Oklahoma...
Quote: rodeo101There is NO law saying that the Oklahoma casinos have to charge an ante to play. That is a myth promoted by the casinos. The money from the ante goes straight into the individual casinos profit margin and not one dime of it goes to the state... If and when Texas ever gets gambling, they will not be charging an ante to play.
Card games (poker, texas hold'em etc) and table games (blackjack, 3 card poker, ultimate texas hold'em, pai gow etc) in Oklahoma indian casinos are compacted games, and are the only games approved for play in the state at this time, that's why we don't have dice or roulet games etc as those are true class III games not covered in the compact agreement.
Compacted gaming means the tribe has signed a gaming compact with the state in which they pay from between 4% to 20% of their gross net depending on amount made from compacted card/table games and slot machines (aka class III slots , non server based electronic instant bingo style bingo games), (class II slots are server based electronic bonanza style bingo games and are not compacted games).
So compacted indian casino table/card games are not true class III games in the classic Vegas casino style in which the patron is playing for the house's money,
But instead they are player backed games, in which the chips you see in the table tray belongs to the players (it's what the players have lost durning the course of play),
Hence is the reason you see the posted "player's pool amount" somewhere on the casino floor in a prominent location; (if you've never seen it, then ask the pitboss next time what the player's pool amount is for that day).
Since the amount in a player's pool is not the casino's funds, it constitutes a liability to the casino and has to be returned to the players through promos, daily play, tournements, comps etc to the table/card players,
The casino is allowed to take 10% of the total pool amount for maintenece fees, expenses, advertizing etc.
So, to answer your question, the $.50/hand commission is what the house makes from the play of cards/table games, with that they pay their dealers wages, pit bosses/floor workers wages, uniforms etc. and if they've dealt enough hands to cover that, then the rest is profit."
Quoting the whole thing since somebody got suspended for a misquote. But if you're waiting for Texas to have casino gambling, please don't hold your breath. Not as long as the Tea Party has control. Perry said many times that he would veto any bill legalizing it. It would have to get put on the ballot and be voted on. That may indeed happen one day. But probably not any time soon. Sadly, Abbot seems to hold even more extreme views.. I'm betting that Texas will be one of the last to legalize it.
As far as Winstar goes, I only play poker there. I refuse to pay the ante. I can go to Louisiana and play all day with no ante.
The neatest thing about that casino is that it's actually a tent. A very well disguised tent, but a tent none the less. And that thing is huge.
Louisiana has LS and S17 with no ante, making the Winstar nothing else than a tourist stop unless you are an intense poker player. I peeked in the poker room and it looked like most of those guys lived there (sweat pants, no drinking).
I was not aware of the ante. That’s a disappointment.
Anything else there I should be weary of?
If your favorite adult beverage happens to be beer, be prepared to drink 3.2% ABV beer. All pee, no buzz.
Quote: FTBCocktail waitresses don’t walk around offering drinks for tips?
Negative. I'm told they have to charge because it's federal land. Not sure what that has to do with anything.
Might make better sense to just pass on through if/when I visit Texas again.
Quote: FTBI keep getting the feeling I would not like this place and should not bother planning a trip there solely for WinStar itself.
Might make better sense to just pass on through if/when I visit Texas again.
In my opinion it is not worth planning a trip to Winstar unless it is the closest place to gamble. I would never spend more than one night there to see it.
