Will SLS go the way of Revel?

Quote: EvenBob

The guest on the radio show this week says
SLS will go under for sure. Nobody goes
there, it's in a horrible location, and
bankruptcy is around the corner. They
talk about the SLS 1 min into the show.

http://www.slot-machine-resource.com/podcasts/vaccaro2.mp3

Jeffrey talks a lot of sense in this podcast.

They lost 90mil in the first 2 quarters of this
year? How do you survive that. Ahigh predicted
in June in this thread they would pull through
and be OK. From his keyboard to gods ears..

I never thought they would do OK. That area
of the Strip is no-mans-land.. I was in the Sahara
in 2008, and the felt on the roulette table was
worn down to the particle board beneath. Why
would anybody think a joint like that just needed
a fresh coat of paint to succeed.

Quote: stephen.hall

Jeffrey talks a lot of sense in this podcast.

Link not working for me.

Quote: bobsims

Link not working for me.

Click on the link in the orig post I made.

There's just too much empty space between midstrip and northstrip. Whoever owns that property north of circus circus should open up something like the downtown container park. Would be relatively easy to dismantle at some point in the future.

Quote: rudeboyoi

There's just too much empty space between midstrip and northstrip. Whoever owns that property north of circus circus should open up something like the downtown container park. Would be relatively easy to dismantle at some point in the future.

MGM Resorts owns it if you mean the southwest corner of Sahara and LVB.

Quote: EvenBob

They lost 90mil in the first 2 quarters of this
year? How do you survive that. Ahigh predicted
in June in this thread they would pull through
and be OK. From his keyboard to gods ears..

I never thought they would do OK. That area
of the Strip is no-mans-land.. I was in the Sahara
in 2008, and the felt on the roulette table was
worn down to the particle board beneath. Why
would anybody think a joint like that just needed
a fresh coat of paint to succeed.

wow! never thought it would fall soooooo soon, just like the Revel. (and just like my thread title)
would have thought the owners had a good plan backed by solid marketing data?

wonder if Boyd will stop/abandon their Echelon project because of this?
then again, they're mid strip and not north strip.

Remember this? They were laying people off
2 months after they opened.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/layoffs-recently-opened-sls-las-vegas

And the company who owns SLS recently sold
the Beverly Hills Hotel and the casino they
had in FL. They are hemorrhaging money
in Vegas, it's got to be next on the chopping
block.

I took my buddy to the SLS yesterday and the pool area was more busy than I've ever seen it. We decided to hang out in the burger place and had some food and just talked for a long while.

Machines and table games not busy at all. But that pool is definitely the thing that's working.

They had the Seigel branded shops closed down and the entire casino was very obviously effectively overrun with people doing the pool activities.

We have a game that is designed to appeal to these folks. But if there is a game of choice for these (beautiful girls and guys who admire them and beats to jump around to) customers, right now, it appears to be mostly double zero roulette. And that might be just because it's physically close to the door with the line of people waiting to get into the pool.

I do still believe that the SLS will succeed, frankly. My friend and I, as part of our discussion, talked about business models that have (intentional) up-front losses that are handily remedied at a later date. We both worked with Nintendo to release the first game besides Mario-64, and we've seen leaders who do things differently when it comes to long-term approaches.

One quote I remember when there was a slip on the schedule of the N64 to ship on Christmas 1995 and slipped to June 1996 in Japan and Christmas 1996 for the US was, "there will be many Christmases." That was pretty much the final word to all of the Americans who were thinking the sky was falling when they realized they couldn't get the N64 ready in time. The N64 and Mario 64 were obviously very successful, and nobody remembers that slip.

The SLS needs to be given some respect, in my opinion, for doing things right in spite of the money because they care about how people feel about them and their brand and it's an extremely valuable brand (in LA) that is just getting started in Vegas. They are still very new.

Quote: Ahigh

I do still believe that the SLS will succeed, frankly. .

They were laying people off 6 weeks
after they opened, lose more money
every quarter than they lost last
quarter, the casino is deserted in the
middle of one of busiest holiday
weekends of the year, they are
missing loan payments, and you think
they will succeed.

If you don't think this casino is on it's
last legs, then I don't know what to say.
I guess it will take them shuttering the
front doors to convince you, and that's
right around the corner. They were
all waiting with bated breath for the 2nd
quarter results to come in, and they were
disastrous.

Quote: EvenBob

They were laying people off 6 weeks
after they opened, lose more money
every quarter than they lost last
quarter, the casino is deserted in the
middle of one of busiest holiday
weekends of the year, they are
missing loan payments, and you think
they will succeed.

If you don't think this casino is on it's
last legs, then I don't know what to say.
I guess it will take them shuttering the
front doors to convince you, and that's
right around the corner. They were
all waiting with bated breath for the 2nd
quarter results to come in, and they were
disastrous.

I don't think you understand. The pool area was busy.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

I don't think you understand. The pool area was busy.


ZCore13

LOL.

Perhaps they need slots at the pool.

Why don't they have gaming tablet like devices you can use at the pool or wherever you are at on property? Hold your device up to a bill Acceptor insert money and credits auto loads to that device. To Cash out, just do the same thing. They should be able to sync up to actual machines and save wherever you left off at, in case you have to go to dinner, your room, pool bathroom or wherever. Get them up on checking in, return on check out or some EASY system.

They could have a credit card reader right on the device.

This should be standard at all casinos by now. It will take a while for people to embrace, but eventually people will be using them in the restaurants, pools, rooms, shows, lines or wherever.

PS. Ill give a full report soon on how busy or slow this place is.

Quote: Zcore13

I don't think you understand. The pool area was busy.

It really was, man. It really was. So many girls, it was very much insane.

Quote: Ahigh

It really was, man. It really was. So many girls, it was very much insane.

They take in enough money from the pool
area a day to pay the electric bill in the casino
for a few hours.

Well this is about as well informed as most things are among the most vocal WoV regulars.

Quote: 100xOdds

wow! never thought it would fall soooooo soon, just like the Revel. (and just like my thread title)
would have thought the owners had a good plan backed by solid marketing data?

wonder if Boyd will stop/abandon their Echelon project because of this?
then again, they're mid strip and not north strip.

Ummm, all work on Echelon was stopped more than seven years ago. Boyd no longer owns the property, or anything at all near it, has nothing at all to do with it, and hasn't in several years. It was sold (for $350 million) to Genting Gaming Group, which is now building the first four billion dollar phase of a very large high-end resort there, under the name Resorts World Las Vegas. It is scheduled to open next year. The final full project is for four hotel towers with over six-thousand rooms, budgeted for about seven billion dollars.

All new properties start with more individuals brought in than they plan to keep. The opening requires more staffing than continuing operations, no matter how successful it is or isn't. And some of them will always quickly turn out to be obvious EvenBobs, who they know they won't want to keep around under any circumstances. The two percent reported to have been let go at SLS after the open is a lot smaller than what most with some basic rudimentary knowledge of the business would've expected.

I have no idea whether SLS is doing well or poorly, since I haven't invested as much as ten minutes looking into it; it is a tiny gnat in the context of the Strip. Obviously those most eager to make definitive pronouncements about it on this particular forum have EvenLess of a clue about the joint than I do.

They had a pretty decent weekend thanks to the pool.Labor Day is pretty much the last big weekend of pool parties.I imagine SLS advertises like crazy in L.A. Once the pool closes it will be a ghost town.
Its twin in adversity, the Downtown Grand really should have capitalized on the crowds watching Kansas/Blue Oyster Cult a block away on Fremont but didn't.
1-0 SLS.

Quote: DrawingDead

Ummm, all work on Echelon was stopped more than seven years ago. Boyd no longer owns the property, or anything at all near it, has nothing at all to do with it, and hasn't in several years. It was sold (for $350 million) to Genting Gaming Group, which is now building the first four billion dollar phase of a very large high-end resort there, under the name Resorts World Las Vegas. It is scheduled to open next year. The final full project is for four hotel towers with over six-thousand rooms, budgeted for about seven billion dollars.

boyd/genting.. same thing... will the builder stop the project at the site due to how badly SLS is doing?

and from what you're saying.. no. thx

SLS is suffering from a lack of foot traffic that surely Nazarian must have known about when he put the place up. Meanwhile the company is keeping cash flow afloat by financing to the tune of 40 million per quarter. $160 million in cash is a lot of money to Nazarian and the stress on his company has been clear. There is lots of news of activity within SBE (his holding company).

My personal thought is that it will fail in time, but only after Phase I of RWI opens.

Its success or demise will depend on whether foot traffic from RWI reaches SLS, and to that end, the answer will be "too little too late". The revamping of the Riviera by the LVCC will take too much time. For me it depends on whether Icahn decides to do anything with Fountainebleau or whether Crown decides to do anything with the Frontier land.

Still, I see the 5 year prospect for this area of the strip to be very very good. Resorts is committed to its site which will drive foot traffic north. WynnCore will be the new focus point of the strip instead of Bellagio / Paris / Ballys / CZR. There will be a revival of Circus Circus and if MGM had a brain they would think about a revamp very quickly if they haven't already - a major renovation. I think all eyes are on Resorts. If they are seen as a success I see Crown making a move to build something on Frontier. Icahn will have the advantage however as he already has a hotel pretty much built and can probably open something much quicker.

And I think it is these two properties plus the Convention Center expansion that will turn SLS around. Unfortunately, that will be at least 2018 (at the earliest) until these come to fruition, and by that time, SLS will have lost something to the tune of $480 million or so, too much for Nazarian to handle. The next economic downturn isn't going to happen for a while and now is the time to build. Perhaps he can hold on and arrange for more expensive financing to hold out.

SLS came in a bit too early and with nothing around it, will fail.

Quote: stephen.hall

I was informed by a staff member that potential buyers are being shown around.I feel once the pool season is over it is going to be very very quiet in there.
I remember tracking a must hit by $50 progressive.It was at $45 on Thursday.The following Tuesday it had moved up a $1!!!

And how do you know it didn't recycle and back up to $46?

I went again yesterday and I also noticed that they changed the white-painted sidewalks to a glossy coat over the bare concrete. Looks MUCH nicer.

Quote: Ahigh

I went again yesterday and I also noticed that they changed the white-painted sidewalks to a glossy coat over the bare concrete. Looks MUCH nicer.

That will surely bring the people in..

Since I knew I might be staying at the SLS I decided to pay some attention to how busy it was. On Monday(Labor day) at 5 o'clock in the afternoon. I didn't have high hopes after I went to grab my phone charger from my car, because the garage looked fairly sparse. To my surprise the casino was definitely NOT a ghost town.

The Pool was fairly busy, but I wouldn't say it was jam packed. I would consider it tame compared to places like the Rehab pool party at the Hard Rock. I didn't see anybody waiting to get in but they had bouncers/security guarding the entrance. They definitely had lots of hotties, two were willing to pose for some pic's.

Check in desk had no line and about 4 people being helped.
I'm not sure if the bar next to PERQ was open because it seemed empty.
PERQ had 5 people glued to their phones and laptops.

Formerly The Griddle cafe, now The Northside cafe (unlike The Griddle it's actually open 24/7) had about 40 people dining.

Players club had 1 person being helped an no one in line.

The host's all seemed fairly busy helping people at their desks across from the HL room.

High limit room only had 2 non Asian people playing the tables, one person playing VP/slots. I didn't walk in to see what kind of action they were giving.

They had one craps table going with a mix of younger male and females , I didn't notice any big action or DI's

There were about 10 various other table games going strong. I noticed 2 tall model like attractive younger females playing roulette by themselves.

All the VP machines (10 or 12?) at the main bar were taken. The 2 non gaming sides had 3 people. An older couple came just to see the this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWvQ0cgQwXQ&feature=youtu.be.

The sports bar was 80% full with a mix of people playing, eating, drinking, messing with sports, doing business

I estimated there were about 130 people "playing" slots on the floor.

I'm Rooting for this place but, they don't seem to want gamblers local or out of state. No real gaming promotions. Apparently locals get a discount on food. They should be giving locals 35 or older 100% back in free play up to $25 after paying for your meal.

Quote: standbymyman

And how do you know it didn't recycle and back up to $46?

Perhaps he tracked it the entire time.

How does a casino lose $50mil in one quarter,
in 13 weeks. That's almost $4mil a week,
$500,000 a day. Consider what the hotel
takes in, what the restaurants and pool and
casino take in, and they still lose $500K
a day? It doesn't seem possible.

If it were my property, I think I'd start running a free shuttle 24/7 just looping between mid-strip and the north properties; get the Strat and maybe LVH or whatever it is now (Westgate?) to help pay for it if you don't want to self-finance, similar to the shuttles CET runs between their own properties (avoid the licensing problems with charging money). Big ads on the side. There are huge crowds roaming mid-strip that just don't get to the north end, but they could if you moved them up there at your expense.

When you consider what it costs to tow those strange billboards up and down the strip, you could use the same money on a people-mover and still get the ads on LV Blvd.

Other than cheaper room rates why would anyone go to SLS over Cosmo or some other place? People probably get the cheap room's then head to other locations to gamble and eat. Even with free transportation why would someone want to go to SLS? They need ensentives period.

They need to give people a reason to want to gamble there I haven't seen a good reason for anyone to play at the SLS over other locations.

2nd quarter (in millions)

Margin on:

Casino: 0.7 million
Hotel: 6.7 million
Food and Beverage: -5.7 million
Retail: .6 million

G&A expenses: 16.1 million
Allowance for bad debts: 1.2 million
Corporate and Mgmt Fees: 2 million
Depreciation 11.1 million

Net loss on operations: 31.1 million

Debt servicing 17.6 million.

And that's how you lose 500k a day.

Quote: boymimbo

2nd quarter (in millions)

Margin on:

Casino: 0.7 million
Hotel: 6.7 million
Food and Beverage: -5.7 million
Retail: .6 million

G&A expenses: 16.1 million
Allowance for bad debts: 1.2 million
Corporate and Mgmt Fees: 2 million
Depreciation 11.1 million

Net loss on operations: 31.1 million

Debt servicing 17.6 million.

And that's how you lose 500k a day.

Debt is what kills most businesses (and relationships).

Their G&A expense is way too high.

Food and beverage loss can only be that high if your casino profit is huge.

If I was brought in there I would be seriously looking for fraud and corruption within gaming. That profit is a joke and heads should be rolling.

They need to fix operating loss now or they will be gone by the end of 2016.

ZCore13

Quote: AxelWolf

Perhaps he tracked it the entire time.

Skeletons of hustlers in the casino waiting for the magic number. Yes I passed through everyday,never saw anyone playing and the rise was minimal. It would take a busy casino for the progressive to rise from $25 to $46 everyday.Or one big player.

Quote: boymimbo

2nd quarter (in millions)

Margin on:

Casino: 0.7 million
Hotel: 6.7 million
Food and Beverage: -5.7 million
Retail: .6 million

G&A expenses: 16.1 million
Allowance for bad debts: 1.2 million
Corporate and Mgmt Fees: 2 million
Depreciation 11.1 million

Net loss on operations: 31.1 million



Debt servicing 17.6 million.

And that's how you lose 500k a day.

Pretty much everyone in the Northside (cafe) are using weekly comps for the Chinese food.The 800 degree pizza is very good.250 slot points on Mondays entitles you to a $15 comp.Although, good luck getting the kids in the players club knowing how to comp your players card.

Are ENCENTIVES something new in the ap world that I should check out? (-;

Incentives.

SLS has a pretty large credit facility with Mesa that they are just starting to bite into. I think it's something like $195 million and they've used $20 million of that. That should give them enough cash to get them through 2016 as they are burning about $10 million in cash per month.

SLS IMO got to the game a bit too early. That area of the strip, I am unsure most people even call that area the strip anymore. While 10 years ago, you would have no argument putting that area of the strip, I think now in all practicality it ends at Wynncore, and foot traffic north of there takes a noticeable decline. SLS is a good property, it has a nice hotel, nice pool, nice restaurants, but it needs to attract foot traffic that isn't necessarily staying with IMO it doesn't at this point. I think once some of these developments in the Northern strip take hold, that foot traffic can and will increase. They just have to find a way to scrape through the next year or two

Quote: AxelWolf

Other than cheaper room rates why would anyone go to SLS over Cosmo or some other place? People probably get the cheap room's then head to other locations to gamble and eat. Even with free transportation why would someone want to go to SLS? They need ensentives period.

They need to give people a reason to want to gamble there I haven't seen a good reason for anyone to play at the SLS over other locations.

From a locals point of view the location has to be a plus over Aria/Cosmo.They do have an hourly shuttle from the hotel to PH miracle mile.Not sure if you have to be a guest to ride back to SLS from there or if the shuttle then goes to McCarron b4 returning.

Quote: stephen.hall

From a locals point of view the location has to be a plus over Aria/Cosmo.

It is? We didn't try it over the weekend, but I thought Cosmo's parking garage was "easy peasy" off of Harmon on weekdays. And overhead lights indicating occupied/unoccupied spots? Very smart. SLS is also very easy to access of course because nothing else is there.

I'm still thinking about CasinoKat for this location.

For locals, they want a chance to actually come out ahead at the end of the year, not just the end of an hour.



High denomination (positive EV) bets from locals is pretty much live poker right now. But that can and SHOULD change.

I could imagine SLS embracing our skilled products once there is understanding for the math model among the industry.

Right now we are still dealing with the average casino that thinks that AP is a bad word.

How many days do you figure before all
the fuzzy stuff on the legs and trim has
stains all over it and is half torn off from
players constantly pulling on it. I give it
a week before it looks like crap.

Quote: Ahigh

I'm still thinking about CasinoKat for this location.

For locals, they want a chance to actually come out ahead at the end of the year, not just the end of an hour.



High denomination (positive EV) bets from locals is pretty much live poker right now. But that can and SHOULD change.

I could imagine SLS embracing our skilled products once there is understanding for the math model among the industry.

Right now we are still dealing with the average casino that thinks that AP is a bad word.

Is there a way you can encase the fur in clear plastic or something? Cylinder around the edges and panels on the sides. This would solve that problem.

Quote: Ahigh

Right now we are still dealing with the average casino that thinks that AP is a bad word.

And they always will. You might as well try
to get the Church to make the devil a saint.

The SLS and Downtown grand to me are like casino # 5486732 and 548733 to me. There's really no incentive to go to either place since they all seem the same. This is me speaking as a random casino goer and not as an AP.

SLS has a horrible parking structure where if you come in from Las Vegas BLVD you can't leave the Paradise side and vice versa. The only way to do so is to run through the valet area. The parking garage has no arrows so people always come through the wrong way trying to get out or go up.

I asked a dealer at the SLS about their "Mega Progressive" on table games. It was a $ amount that was displayed on a LCD screen and there was no clear way to figure out how to win it. The dealer told me you have to hit a 7 card straight flush (this was a Pai Gow table), but that was to hit the Major, and the minor was hit with 5 aces. I understood that part as every casino pretty much has the same progressive paytable, but the MEGA progressive has no clear written instruction on how to hit. I then asked the pit boss since the dealer thought I was an idiot and didn't understand you have to hit a 7 card for the MAJOR, but she didn't know I was speaking about the MEGA. The pit boss explained to me that if you play the sidebet eventually you'll go into a bonus round that could award the MEGA progressive. Ok this makes sense, but there is no indication as to how that works on the screen itself.

How is anyone supposed to figure this new bet? This seems to be SLS exclusive and they would probably gain more players if this was more clearly explained. A pit boss shouldn't have to explain to every single person asking about a sidebet, the dealer should know.

I also played a significant amount here and got $0 in mailers. I spoke to a host who told me there is no record of this play since it was a while back (I played when this place first opened) and treated me like a flea. I don't have a problem with the treatment if I didn't play at all and demanded a comp, but I just asked about my play and whether or not if that would get any offers, but nothing. For my coin in I would probably get $50/week in mailers at a locals place but I guess they don't want locals.

Overall I feel like I wasn't wanted as a player in here.

DOWNTOWN GRAND:

Parking sucks. You have to park across the street at their garage. Validation is hit or miss. I've been 50/50 on getting my car validated. When I don't I usually tell security on the phone at the gate my ticket isn't working so I get out for free lol. Garage is EXTREMELY small, probably just over the side of the D in terms of open space. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of accidents happen here backing out.

Casino seems ho hum, no good games over 98% when Main Street has 9/6 jacks at the bar, one of the places where the games are really bad and for good reason as you can get quick drinks there. High limit is an afterthought, a couple of slot machines and the table games in high limit seemed closed the entire time I visited there. I actually met with lots of visitors from out of state here and they really didn't have an opinion of the place. It's not a bad place, but not many good things so people feel like they want to come back.

No opinion on coin in and mailers. There are a lot of UX hustlers here as the bar is full of these machines. I feel they need to loosen up their machines, or offer more incentives as they are a block away from Fremont where the action is. Maybe if you bring a voucher from another downtown casino they will give you 10% in free play if you sign up for their player's card, or something. Anything to get the downtown casino goers to wander over. Bring a downtown casino player's card, get $25 free play, but the player's club there cuts your card in half or something.

Maybe they should run a promo where if you hit a jackpot at any other casino and bring the w2g they would match it in free play?

DTG has 8/5 BP

Interesting quote from the director of marketing & nightlife in the LasVegasWeekly : " Now we know where we fit in the marketplace.We're close to downtown."

Quote: djatc

SLS has a horrible parking structure where if you come in from Las Vegas BLVD you can't leave the Paradise side and vice versa.

I hate parking too, but the two sides are now adjoined and have been the last ten visits.

Quote: djatc

I also played a significant amount here and got $0 in mailers. I spoke to a host who told me there is no record of this play since it was a while back (I played when this place first opened) and treated me like a flea. I don't have a problem with the treatment if I didn't play at all and demanded a comp, but I just asked about my play and whether or not if that would get any offers, but nothing. For my coin in I would probably get $50/week in mailers at a locals place but I guess they don't want locals.

They just started over with a new comp program and I think that may have had to do with the reset you noticed. I received very generous comps every single time I asked. My impression is that the comps here are similar to the Wynn, in a nutshell, for table play. You HAVE to ask, and don't expect any coupons. I think I get $50 in the form of two $25 match plays now that just started with the new comp program (I think I've been receiving this for four months now).

Quote: djatc

Overall I feel like I wasn't wanted as a player in here.

If you're AP/BJ, I have heard that. On the craps table they are still top in my view, but that's just my opinion!

Quote: djatc

DOWNTOWN GRAND:

Parking sucks. You have to park across the street at their garage. Validation is hit or miss. I've been 50/50 on getting my car validated. When I don't I usually tell security on the phone at the gate my ticket isn't working so I get out for free lol. Garage is EXTREMELY small, probably just over the side of the D in terms of open space. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of accidents happen here backing out.

Casino seems ho hum, no good games over 98% when Main Street has 9/6 jacks at the bar, one of the places where the games are really bad and for good reason as you can get quick drinks there. High limit is an afterthought, a couple of slot machines and the table games in high limit seemed closed the entire time I visited there. I actually met with lots of visitors from out of state here and they really didn't have an opinion of the place. It's not a bad place, but not many good things so people feel like they want to come back.

No opinion on coin in and mailers. There are a lot of UX hustlers here as the bar is full of these machines. I feel they need to loosen up their machines, or offer more incentives as they are a block away from Fremont where the action is. Maybe if you bring a voucher from another downtown casino they will give you 10% in free play if you sign up for their player's card, or something. Anything to get the downtown casino goers to wander over. Bring a downtown casino player's card, get $25 free play, but the player's club there cuts your card in half or something.

The main problem with this place from my view is that their setup seems too tight. I have heard that they went 10x, but frankly, I agree: no reason to go back here. I almost took a friend in here after the recent labor day concert with BOC and Kansas, but there really was nothing special to think about being here except that it's cleaner and newer.

I also don't like that they purchased inexpensive chips that are not the standard paulson chip I expect.

Quote: djatc

Bring a downtown casino player's card, get $25 free play, but the player's club there cuts your card in half or something.

Actually you get $20 if you sign up for their "NEW" Players card. WTF is that all about"new card"? SLS pulled that crap to. This just means they FKed up in the first place and needed to re-brand.



If it's truly a NEW players club, then I should be re-eligible for the 1k Loss Rebate. Oh sorry sir, just kidding. its not really a new club , we just made it a different color and name, You'll still just get Junky offers and promotions.

People can bitch about CET all they want, however a lot of local places send far worst offers.

With exception to CC, MGM has also been relatively bad with offers IMO. .

I feel you're pain about SLS Other than the matching offer play, they really treated players like garbage when it came to FP/Comp offers at first. They may be doing better now, but it may be to late. They certainly are not making up for it.

If they were smart, they would send everyone who played 3 free nights and free play. They should also send out mailed coupons/fun books to everyone in Las Vegas like Stations, Coast and others sometimes do.

The football parties attracted a crowd to the Beer Garden.Don't know if the free $5 parlay was the clincher but at least they have something when the pool season is over.