PLO It's a nightmare
The game is the most maddening of all gambling card games in my opinion!
I call it the great equalizer! Who said, "Never give a sucker an even break!"
Whoever it was, certainly didn't play Omaha for a living!!! Of that I'm sure.
One can play the game like a Strativarius, but if the cards
are not smiling on you that day, you'll end up wanting to quit the game forever!
Losing both ends of every proposition , ( made hands and monster draw hands )
will try the patience of most, then having people beat your premium
hands with garbage hands will melt your brain, regardless of how strong you
are emotionally. I find I cannot contend in thiat atmosphere, I believe I have
the necessary skills, but after several thrashings in a game where I haven't
made a mistake, I tend to lose my composure a tad. Once this occurs, I'm a goner,
my play rapidly deteriorates and I begin to play personal poker against the administrators
of my beatings. I'm well aware this is not a winning tactic and will generally get up
once this happens. I said generally, except on those rare occasions where everything
happens perfectly, in the exact order needed to entice me to continue to play even though
I know full well in most cases, it's a lost cause. The next day is when I'm really pissed at myself,
shoulda quit, shouldn't have paid that guy off, all the shoulda, woulda, & coulda's you relive after
a monster dump the night before! Anyone ever been in this zip code?
I need a little cheese to go with my whine!
Sorry, but if you play Omaha, especially for a living, I know this has happened to YOU
Misery loves company
the necessary skills "
Evidently your belief is not fact based !
since your absence from response to your seed catalogue question, I wasn't sure you were available
for further nit pickings.
Believe as in belief, not as fact is fact, old sport!
shoulda quit, shouldn't have paid that guy off, all the shoulda, woulda, & coulda's you relive after
a monster dump the night before! "
Nah, you beat me to it.
It's part of my DNA, my history, my basic make-up, it's a FACT, I will dump a big figure
at least once every 5 years. Hope I live long enough to do it again!
http://www.bluff.com/magazine/warning-plo-variance-may-cause-insanity-13963/
Actually I employ the record keeping portion of the advice and have similarities with the review process it recommends.
I was familiar with Einstein's quote on insanity and yes, I suffer from it occasionally playing Omaha.
Thank you, that was nice of you.
Quote: 24BingoI don't play a whole lot of Omaha, and virtually no PLO, but practically everyone I've ever heard compare PLO to NL has agreed that PLO is the more skill-based game (and likewise for real Omaha and Hold 'Em).
I would half agree with this. If you are at a table with 9 people who know how to play the game then yes it takes more skill. The problem with this game is generally you have half the table who have no idea how to play. You will get sucked out on more since these people will hold garbage. Generally this is a good thing in poker but when more than half the people do it, it makes it very tough.
I have played a lot of poker in my time and I have always said that I would prefer to play with 8 good players over 4 good and 4 bad or even 8 bad. Sometimes it is just to tough to beat luck, but my skills are good enough where I could beat good players regularly.
It's best not to take Buzz seriously. Ever. He's the Don Rickles of WoV.
I have been playing PLO hi/lo for real money online the last month or so. Fascinating, as Spock would say. Just a murderous game. I tend to do very well for a long time, then all of a sudden get a ridiculous run of 2nd best that wipes me out in a couple hands. The last game I played, I had back-to-back aces paired, making a FH Aces over both hands, flopping the set each time. The first lost to 4OAK of my pair. The very next lost to a pup SF when the 5D rivered and I was already all-in - they had stuck with the 2-3 diamonds and 2 middle cards, even through an Ace + pair flop. I went from first by a long way to out on just those two hands. In both cases, the other party pushing looked like a hi/lo chop. Silly me. You get hands like that, you start to hate the game.
Quote: beachbumbabsThomas,
It's best not to take Buzz seriously. Ever. He's the Don Rickles of WoV.
I have been playing PLO hi/lo for real money online the last month or so. Fascinating, as Spock would say. Just a murderous game. I tend to do very well for a long time, then all of a sudden get a ridiculous run of 2nd best that wipes me out in a couple hands. The last game I played, I had back-to-back aces paired, making a FH Aces over both hands, flopping the set each time. The first lost to 4OAK of my pair. The very next lost to a pup SF when the 5D rivered and I was already all-in - they had stuck with the 2-3 diamonds and 2 middle cards, even through an Ace + pair flop. I went from first by a long way to out on just those two hands. In both cases, the other party pushing looked like a hi/lo chop. Silly me. You get hands like that, you start to hate the game.
This is my experience with PLO as well. It's OK for a "fun" home game but has ridiculous wild swings...um I guess that would be lady variance rearing her ugly head again...that can make the game hard to take.
I have a somewhat related question. It's been a fundamental belief of mine ever since i started taking poker semi-seriously; that any limit game favors a more skilled player over a no-limit game. The reason being, that the longer a more skilled player plays against a less skilled player the greater the odds of his skill coming to play in the game. Example: I could play one hand of No Limit with Phil Ivey (or whomever) and I'd have a 50% chance of winning that particular hand. But over time and hundreds of hands, his superior skill and experience would grind me down most likely. Therefore since pot limit games tend to last longer, than no limit games(where even the least skilled player can catch a monster)...it's better for skilled players to play limit as opposed to no limit. I've always just assumed the above to be true but have never attempted any serious examination of the issue...am I correct?... Discuss.
Limit vs. Big Bet is a debate as old as time, or at least hold em. You have a wider range of options in NL, but face a greater quantity of decisions in limit. From what I understand, computers can play limit at an elite level but not yet no limit. Also, learning a basic, winning strategy at the mid to low stakes is probably easier in limit. I also think there's more psychological depth in NL.
Ultimately, though, if you can beat me at NL just as well as I can beat you at limit, I don't see how you can say anything other than, "you are more skilled at NL and I am more skilled at limit."
pot draws (monster or not).
pot scare cards flop, turn, and river.
agression, aggression, aggression...
have deep pockets to reload
What I meant was I entered pots pre-flop correctly ( premium starters ) , played the hands post flop correctly, bet the correct amounts each time or called correctly
with the proper pot odds, and layed the hands down correctly when they were beat. Bluffing never was a possibility with the crew I was playing against, they were
mostly calling stations so it would have been futile. I don't play a lot of hands, I deal with a huge rake in the games I play and fading the rake is hard enough, let alone
playing hands that will trap me, instead of the other way around. I enter with two and three way hands that tend to either flop the nuts with a free roll or a monster big draw,
At the nuts of course. Then I try to shape the pot accordingly. Sometimes that's not possible, especially when there are several loose cannons full of testosterone
firing it up every pot. Volatility is huge because they make you gamble and you better make the lead stand up through the river or hit your draw! Or else you're stuck an
amount not easily recovered. That's basically what I meant by playing mistake free and getting my butt handed to me. All I really meant I guess was to gripe and whine
a little and express what narrow shoulders I have when it comes to defeat in the wonderful game of PLO
I used to play the 10/20 limit Holden at the Commerce several years back, almost unbeatable!!
Not because of my play, but because of the players. A minimum of 6 see the flop and if any flop
any pair, or a possible pair sometimes, they are immovable to the river! Only way to beat a game
like that is show down winners! It's a showdown game with to many players going to the river.
You are right, Very tough to beat!
Quote: ThomasWell said GWAE, I believe you have hit the nail on the proverbial head with your comments.
I used to play the 10/20 limit Holden at the Commerce several years back, almost unbeatable!!
Not because of my play, but because of the players. A minimum of 6 see the flop and if any flop
any pair, or a possible pair sometimes, they are immovable to the river! Only way to beat a game
like that is show down winners! It's a showdown game with to many players going to the river.
You are right, Very tough to beat!
Please don't take this the wrong way, but, if you can't beat a game like this, you are not a very good player. Except for games where everyone folds way, way too much (which is very rare in limit) these are the most beatable games out there. You are probably too focused on how many pots you win and not how much money you win. Playing big, multi-player pots well is an important skill in limit hold'em, and, if you do it properly, you can make a lot of money in a game like that.
Quote: AxiomOfChoicePlease don't take this the wrong way, but, if you can't beat a game like this, you are not a very good player. Except for games where everyone folds way, way too much (which is very rare in limit) these are the most beatable games out there. You are probably too focused on how many pots you win and not how much money you win. Playing big, multi-player pots well is an important skill in limit hold'em, and, if you do it properly, you can make a lot of money in a game like that.
My favorite low limit poker game was at the Rainbow in Wendover. It was a 2-5 holdem game, 1-2 blinds, with a $50 Kill to 5-10. And on most days the game was as loose as a goose. No need to get creative in a game like that. Don't try to bluff the calling stations. You have to show down the best hand to win the pot.
The thing I loved about the game was once it went into the kill it might stay in the kill for 25 or thirty hands in a row. I was only paying $3 a lap to look at cards in what was essentially a 5-10 game.
Quote: AxiomOfChoicePlease don't take this the wrong way, but, if you can't beat a game like this, you are not a very good player. Except for games where everyone folds way, way too much (which is very rare in limit) these are the most beatable games out there. You are probably too focused on how many pots you win and not how much money you win. Playing big, multi-player pots well is an important skill in limit hold'em, and, if you do it properly, you can make a lot of money in a game like that.
Especially at the Commerce - why would I even want to take down a $40 or $60 pot on the flop when the house still take their full 5 and 1? Hell, as I recall, even a steal will cost you 1 and 1 there - that is not a place I want to play with nits, however dumb, certainly not at 10/20.
Quote: AxiomOfChoicePlease don't take this the wrong way, but, if you can't beat a game like this, you are not a very good player. Except for games where everyone folds way, way too much (which is very rare in limit) these are the most beatable games out there. You are probably too focused on how many pots you win and not how much money you win. Playing big, multi-player pots well is an important skill in limit hold'em, and, if you do it properly, you can make a lot of money in a game like that.
Yeah, everything I hear about Commerce is..."softest place on earth". St. Louis on the other hand...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr And yeah, I don't like playing limit omaha8 games unless 60%+ or more are seeing the flop.
Ed Miller,
Mason Malmuth,
David Sklansky
Quote: djatcCall me a sucker but I never understood the meaning of "kill pots" wtf does it mean?
When someone wins a pot of over a certain size, the next pot is "killed". That means that:
1. The stakes increase, and
2. The winner has to post a blind equal to the new (larger) big blind.
Edit: The stakes increase only once. If the next pot is killed as well, the stakes stay at the same (higher than normal) level. If the pot is not large enough, the stakes drop back down to the initial level.
You might have a 4-8 limit game where the kill pots are 6-12, for example.
Either it's over a certain value, or it's two in a row.
Quote: 24BingoIn my experience, the kill pots are usually BB-BB rather than BB-2BB. But in the game that brought this into the discussion it was the latter.
Either it's over a certain value, or it's two in a row.
Oh, right, 2 in a row. I forgot about that. I have not played a kill game in a long time.
The kill games I have played were always two in a row. If you win one pot over a certain size, you get the kill button. If you win the next pot and it is also over a certain size, it's a kill. The games I played were with a "half-kill" (I think it was 6-12 to 9-18, but it has been so long that I really don't remember). I think a "full kill" would double the stakes.
I think, in this case, once it's killed, it stays killed until either the pot isn't big enough, or the person who caused the kill loses a pot.
Ask Neutrino about this. You will have to track down what name he is using now. No need to look very far.Quote: ThomasDoes anyone think PLO is a game where skill is paramount?
The game is the most maddening of all gambling card games in my opinion!
I call it the great equalizer! Who said, "Never give a sucker an even break!"
Whoever it was, certainly didn't play Omaha for a living!!! Of that I'm sure.
One can play the game like a Strativarius, but if the cards
are not smiling on you that day, you'll end up wanting to quit the game forever!
Losing both ends of every proposition , ( made hands and monster draw hands )
will try the patience of most, then having people beat your premium
hands with garbage hands will melt your brain, regardless of how strong you
are emotionally. I find I cannot contend in thiat atmosphere, I believe I have
the necessary skills, but after several thrashings in a game where I haven't
made a mistake, I tend to lose my composure a tad. Once this occurs, I'm a goner,
my play rapidly deteriorates and I begin to play personal poker against the administrators
of my beatings. I'm well aware this is not a winning tactic and will generally get up
once this happens. I said generally, except on those rare occasions where everything
happens perfectly, in the exact order needed to entice me to continue to play even though
I know full well in most cases, it's a lost cause. The next day is when I'm really pissed at myself,
shoulda quit, shouldn't have paid that guy off, all the shoulda, woulda, & coulda's you relive after
a monster dump the night before! Anyone ever been in this zip code?
I need a little cheese to go with my whine!
Sorry, but if you play Omaha, especially for a living, I know this has happened to YOU
Misery loves company
His best POT LIMIT OMAHA finish. The other finishes. 7, 8, 10,15,15,16,16.
TUFF F***ING GAME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceOh, right, 2 in a row. I forgot about that. I have not played a kill game in a long time.
The kill games I have played were always two in a row. If you win one pot over a certain size, you get the kill button. If you win the next pot and it is also over a certain size, it's a kill. The games I played were with a "half-kill" (I think it was 6-12 to 9-18, but it has been so long that I really don't remember). I think a "full kill" would double the stakes.
I think, in this case, once it's killed, it stays killed until either the pot isn't big enough, or the person who caused the kill loses a pot.
In hi/lo split games (Omaha8, Stud8, etc), a kill is activated when someone "scoops" a pot over a certain size. I think the kill works much better in those type of games.
