Reno casino security charged with murder

More casino security goons, out of control, using excessive force.

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/crime/2014/04/10/police-reno-casino-security-guard-charged-mans-death/7579789/

Probably he had a sizeable amount of comps accumulated on his player's club card and it was calculated that killing him could save the Eldorado thousands of dollars.

Quote: Eaglesnest

Probably he had a sizeable amount of comps accumulated on his player's club card and it was calculated that killing him could save the Eldorado thousands of dollars.

This probably is the root of the problem in some way but not points wise. Our laws are pretty weak anymore and there isn't much fear of consequences.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

This probably is the root of the problem in some way but not points wise. Our laws are pretty weak anymore and there isn't much fear of consequences.

According to the article he had said some bad stuff about security publicly (on social media). It sounds like this is more of a personal revenge thing and the casino is trying to distance themselves from their employee.

Quote: Eaglesnest

...thousands of dollars.

It is Reno. I'd guess tens of dollars might be involved.

Where are these Rambo security guys when they are really needed? Nobody in the Las Vegas properties will throw out any douchebag no matter how stomach-turning sickeningly bad. I've seen a floor supervisor in a Caesars owned poker room screaming for help while a very large creep chased her around the table yelling "Iz gonna $@#* up your %*)@ #$%^ b&#$%" while casino security stood around with their thumbs in their @ssets, and she was more than seven months pregnant at the time, and everyone in the joint knew her husband worked in company management above the property level no less. The violent scumbag eventually got tuckered out, and they followed him (in a group walking about twenty paces behind) to the door. He could have raped her, killed her, and cooked & eaten her and the baby with fava beans and it was quite clear they'd have done absolutely nothing. I estimate the chances they'd do a damn thing if you or I were being mugged and gutted and stuffed by Osama Bin Laden in the middle of casino at less than zero percent. I'm pretty sure in some properties you could show up with a clipboard and a hand truck, stroll in and unbolt a slot machine or ATM/ticket-redemption thingy, and wheel it out while nobody does any more than shrug, and if you tossed somebody with a nametag a redbird probably get them to help you load it into in your van.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

According to the article he had said some bad stuff about security publicly (on social media). It sounds like this is more of a personal revenge thing and the casino is trying to distance themselves from their employee.

For some reason, I can't get through to the site. They want distance probably because intentional and malicious is a whole other ball game. It's the wall hid behind to actually pay out anymore for stupidity and negligence.

Oh. I think that this snippet falls well within the Wizard's requests to keep quotes from published sources short:

Quote:

"Upon review of the incident, it was determined that the victim had posted negative comments about the Bubinga Lounge security on social media, and he was denied entry into the club based on these comments," police said in a news release.

It looks like it was a bouncer for the nightclub, not the actual casino security. But the article refers to him as a "casino security guard". I'm not sure if this is a shared role (that would be strange; casino security is generally different from nightclub security, even if the club is casino-owned) or if it's just sloppy reporting.

The article does not specify the cause of death. Sooner or later something like that had to happen. If casino policy allows harassment of their patrons for one reason or the other, it becomes their general attitude. "Casinos are above the law, it's a private club " and so on. The absence of proper punishment leads to lawless behavior. With the spread of casinos around the country a proper legislature is a must or each one of us can become a potential victim.

Quote: DrawingDead

It is Reno. I'd guess tens of dollars might be involved.

Where are these Rambo security guys when they are really needed? Nobody in the Las Vegas properties will throw out any douchebag no matter how stomach-turning sickeningly bad. I've seen a floor supervisor in a Caesars owned poker room screaming for help while a very large creep chased her around the table yelling "Iz gonna $@#* up your %*)@ #$%^ b&#$%" while casino security stood around with their thumbs in their @ssets, and she was more than seven months pregnant at the time, and everyone in the joint knew her husband worked in company management above the property level no less. The violent scumbag eventually got tuckered out, and they followed him (in a group walking about twenty paces behind) to the door. He could have raped her, killed her, and cooked & eaten her and the baby with fava beans and it was quite clear they'd have done absolutely nothing. I estimate the chances they'd do a damn thing if you or I were being mugged and gutted and stuffed by Osama Bin Laden in the middle of casino at less than zero percent. I'm pretty sure in some properties you could show up with a clipboard and a hand truck, stroll in and unbolt a slot machine or ATM/ticket-redemption thingy, and wheel it out while nobody does any more than shrug, and if you tossed somebody with a nametag a redbird probably get them to help you load it into in your van.

That's insane, that they would allow an employee to be put in that position without backup. I'm appalled at that anecdote. I found myself thinking about what I would have done as a customer to stop him in his tracks.

Quote: beachbumbabs

That's insane, that they would allow an employee to be put in that position without backup. I'm appalled at that anecdote. I found myself thinking about what I would have done as a customer to stop him in his tracks.

Well I believe I know what you'd have actually done, having been there: the same as everyone who was there at the time. I feel sure he'd have been stopped very quickly by customers, if not for the fact that a large assembly of uniformed security was there, watching and doing nothing, which is very effective (probably unintentionally) at inhibiting anyone else from responding with their impulse to step in to help. That creep probably was unintentionally PROTECTED to act as he did by the very visible presence of security doing nothing while everyone looked to them for a response. If the effect of that is that all the guys in that poker room at the time, most of whom knew her very well and have a high regard for her and are not shy fellows at all, did nothing while staring at the platoon of security guys, then I'm real confident that you, Buzzard, Mickey, Bejus, and the Man in the Moon would have too. This isn't the only similar incident like this I have personally seen in the last few years in major casino properties.

And as noted above, the anecdote that led to the creation of this thread actually appears to have little or nothing to do with a casino. Someone really has to be nursing some serious issues to want to try to imagine that it does after reading it. The guy was a bouncer in a nightclub, moonlighting from his day job as a bailbondsman. And the childish kind of response it gets in places like this are something one should worry about a whole lot more than the infinitesimal likelihood that a casino is going to beat you up. I'm pretty sure you and I are much more than a thousand times more likely to get mugged, beaten, stabbed, or shot by an obviously inappropriate "customer" in a casino who clearly has no legitimate business being there and should have been thrown out but wasn't because security has been instructed to never to actually do anything.

I got in the face of the supervisor of that security crew afterwards, as did some others, asking not very nicely "WTF was that!?!" and when I said something along the lines of "%@*$ next time I see any problem in here I'm calling 911, not you worthless guys" his response was "that's probably a good idea." Made it very clear what the real score is.

And in retrospect, after this and a host of other incidents that I've seen in major casinos and with the benefit of thinking about it afterward, here's what I've decided I want to do and what I regularly tell other people to do in Las Vegas casinos: 1. Ignore everything you have in your head from watching too much TV producing some notion that casinos are some kind of protected secure environment, because they aren't and they are no more secure in that way than being on the street (and as bad as old Travel Channel reruns is spending too much time on internet forums with some people who fantasize that they are actually clever "APs" and that the casino is really after them); 2. When there is a real problem, first use 911 to call the real police as quickly as possible, just as you would on the streets of any major city.

This meme being created here that a casino property security crew is likely to have been encouraged to run amok is just ludicrous, and makes me wonder how many people here have actually been in casinos or are even old enough to do so.

In other words: Bullscat, and horsepucky.

I have trouble believing this. I've seen casino security show up to diffuse a violent situation in seconds.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I have trouble believing this. I've seen casino security show up to diffuse a violent situation in seconds.

Would you like to meet some of the people who were there, and the woman who was the target of the enraged scumbag? I can introduce you pretty easily; let me know next time you make it to town. Her first name is Carrie. She works in a center Strip poker room owned by Caesars, and is personally known to some other people who I know are acquainted with this site and that name and specific property would now be immediately recognized by other local people if they happen to follow this thread. If you'd prefer, you may contact me directly via private message and I'll give you more identifying specifics so you can go directly ask her about it yourself, privately rather than in a public forum. She isn't a shy gal, and sure wouldn't have any trouble remembering it.

I'm glad to hear that casino security actually did something about that kind of situation somewhere. What exactly did they do to "diffuse" it? I have no doubt that different businesses instruct their people differently (I certainly hope so) but I'm telling you exactly what I and quite a few others personally saw at that property at that time, and have seen in multiple similar occasions at other Las Vegas properties. I'm actually in them quite a lot. Are you?

I spend a lot of time in LV casinos (probably not as much as many Vegas locals, but easily in the top percentile for tourists. Maybe 30-40 days/year?). I've never once seen anything remotely similar to what you describe.

I have certainly seen players verbally abuse the dealers and have it be tolerated way beyond the point that I feel it should be, but any time I have seen anything remotely resembling a threat of physical violence (which has not been very many times) security has been there so fast that I have to believe that they were on their way before it happened (due to reading body language or something)

I am not really doubting you because you don't have a history of posting BS on this forum, but at the same time I have a hard time believing it because it is the exact opposite of what I have seen. I'm just in my usual skeptical state of not knowing.

They did respond fast. Unfortunately that response was comprised entirely of standing as a group in a circle on the casino floor yards away outside of the rail and passively observing. And nothing else, other than following him out (at a distance) when he eventually went to the doorway after apparently tiring of terrorizing her. I can give a plethora of similar though less dramatic examples that I personally have seen, but this was particularly shocking to a number of people because it involved a woman who was their known & trusted employee as well as someone a lot of regular customers look up to fondly, and it was much more threatening than some jerk merely berating a dealer or other staff because he's an emotionally childish douchenozzle who throws a little verbal fit when he doesn't like a ruling or simply lost a pot. You are right that I don't bullspit. I just don't. Some people actually make choices based on what they read on the web. When I don't know something or it is ambiguous, I try to make a point of being clear about that, not least of all to myself.

So up to your judgement which you think is more likely to be common, and to me what I think of some folk's judgement on what they choose to worry about: passive risk-averse security in properties that may be hyper-sensitive to adverse publicity from a hyped complaint from anyone, or casinos seeking opportunities to kill their customers.

I know you didn't make this assertion, but for others who visit I've said it before and I'm going to repeat it again now and in the future: Assuming that a casino will be responsible for your personal security and is endowed with both some wondrously magic potent ability to do that and has been given great discretion to do so is often a seriously misguided myth; one that is commonplace, but a myth. I'm glad to hear you've seen them being more active (I hope recently). I have too, but I really can't remember the last time and place, and the opposite is a lot more easy to recall, as in something just a few weeks ago not ten yards away from me at a big brown edifice that is arguably the most high-end of places on the Strip, in a situation that the manager of that part of the casino obviously knew was killing his business sending customers sensibly fleeing away in droves to avoid, and he clearly felt helpless to do anything to get removed. Either that, or he's an idiot and a clock-watching wuss, and I think I've seen enough of him that I don't believe he's either of those things. I think he's probably been told something by somebody at a higher level who was probably cowed into putting out a dysfunctional "better do nothing" memo by a brigade of lawyers. Quite possibly encouraged to be that way, to the detriment of everyone, by hyped up nonsense to the effect that it is a commonplace problem for casinos to have people often going around beating up their customers.

DD,

Didn't doubt for a minute it happened; I'm just horrified about it. I have also had the opposite experience; the slightest bit of nastiness gets addressed quickly and professionally, that I've seen, everywhere I've been.

Quote: beachbumbabs

DD,

Didn't doubt for a minute it happened; I'm just horrified about it. I have also had the opposite experience; the slightest bit of nastiness gets addressed quickly and professionally, that I've seen, everywhere I've been.

Well, then when you visit next month don't go and burst your bubble by using the main restroom very often which is nearest the SW facing entrance from the Strip in the Flamingo, where some especially aggressive dope dealers & wannabe pimps have long been known to set up shop fairly regularly as if they owned the joint, generating bushels of disturbed customer complaints that I kept hearing at the tables week after week after week when I used to have the Pink Chicken on my circuit of places I'd go. But I'm guessing that's probably too 'down market' among casinos for you anyways. And since I don't go there at all anymore, maybe by now they eventually decided to notice what everyone was forcefully and constantly telling them and have cleaned it up after months of choosing to ignore it, though I won't try to offer any odds on that.

If these "casinos are beating people up for chewing gum" threads are going to be a regular feature, maybe I should take to posting the much more numerous & frequent public accounts of customers who get seriously hurt by creeps with no legit purpose in casino resorts who seem to feel quite comfortable making a habit of hanging out there. But I won't, because it is all I'd be doing day in and day out, and it is ridiculous to make it sound as if either is something that would sensibly be the foremost thing at the very top of anyone's mind when you go there, any more than when you go to a shopping center or clubbing in the nightlife district of any sizable city.

Everyone there was pretty shocked at that one too, considering all the circumstances. Shocked into total inaction, a fact which seemed to embarrass and really bother pretty much all of us later. At least it sure felt that way to me, and especially in that particular incident still does whenever I think of it, and I'm not at all un-streetwise in a pretty wide range of city environments.

Quote: DrawingDead

Well, then don't burst your bubble by using the main restroom nearest the SW facing entrance from the Strip very often at Flamingo, where some especially aggressive dope dealers & wannabe pimps have long been known to set up shop as if they owned the joint fairly regularly, generating bushels of disturbed customer complaints that I heard at the tables week after week after week when I used to have it on my circuit of places I'd go.

If something like that happened I would complain to security. If security did nothing, I would complain to my host.

Hosts basically run the place, especially senior hosts. The dope dealers may be bribing the low-paid security gorillas to turn a blind eye, but marketing will tear them a new one if they think it's costing them customers (since that costs them, personally, money)

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

If something like that happened I would complain to security. If security did nothing, I would complain to my host.

Hosts basically run the place, especially senior hosts. The dope dealers may be bribing the low-paid security gorillas to turn a blind eye, but marketing will tear them a new one if they think it's costing them customers (since that costs them, personally, money)

Now that sounds to me like a really useful approach, rather than just b*tching to the most handy people with nametags running the particular part of the gaming floor (the poker room) that was near the problem. Now that you've made that eminently sensible observation & suggestion, I really regret that I never said anything like that to the folks who were visiting hotel guests and would have been likely to have hosts at the property. They were sure bugged enough about it to take the trouble to do it, and from what I saw of the brazen stupid aggressiveness of it a few times, I don't blame them at all for feeling disturbed & concerned that they walked through that on their precious vacation.

And while I had no trouble telling the sleazeballs to go perform an anatomically challenging act with what they were in my face trying to peddle, I really didn't appreciate vacationing guests suddenly feeling less fun loving and more tight at the table after a simple brief trip to use the restroom. I'm the sort that likes to have callers. And people call when they are relaxed and feeling everything is fun and sociable, not creepy and intimidating.