Smokers in 2014
It is my belief that in 2014 people that still smoke or take up smoking are not as smart as non-smokers.
I mean they either have less formal education or they are just not as sharp as non-smokers.
I would wager that there is also a similar financial correlation
Anyone agree? Disagree?.
Quote: Scan
Anyone agree? Disagree?.
Anyone born since about 1970 should know how bad it is. I have asked several who started. Always, and I mean A-L-W-A-Y-S, when I ask, the story starts the same way:
"Well, at first I only smoked when I was drinking and then............................."
No argument that smoking is a lower socioeconomic thing, but I have worked with and known a few smart ones.
Quote: ScanIt is my belief that in 2014 people that still smoke or take up smoking are not as smart as non-smokers.
.
Nope, that's not it. The smokers I know have
two things in common. Low self esteem and
a lack of will power. They are also in denial
that anything bad will come of smoking. I know
at least ten people who have died of cig related
deaths and they all said they thought it would
never happen to them.
I have another friend who tests at about 2.7 SD's (1 in 300), and smokes, but he has some emotional problems and would probably be considered lower SES.
I would probably consider these 2 friends to represent 1/3 of my close-ish friends.
It's not quite the same thing, but I have recently started experimenting with vaping/nicotine as a mental performance enhancer. There's a lot of research here that get's aggressively overlooked by the media. I've been using it about once a week for a few months, and it's a mixed bag, but it definitely has a place my noot arsenal.
edit: also, I almost forgot, a third good friend has taken up vaping in recent years. He has had some mental problems, and I think it probably gives him a much needed boost.
Quote: socksIt's not quite the same thing, but I have recently started experimenting with vaping/nicotine as a mental performance enhancer. There's a lot of research here that get's aggressively overlooked by the media. I've been using it about once a week for a few months, and it's a mixed bag, but it definitely has a place my noot arsenal.
What the hell is a noot arsenal?
Quote: IbeatyouracesObama smokes, or did smoke. Case closed!
I've heard he quit, but I've also heard he switched to e-cigarettes. As far as I know, the only poison in e-cigs is nicotine, which makes e-cigs an addictive version of coffee.
Quote: hwccdealerI've heard he quit, but I've also heard he switched to e-cigarettes. As far as I know, the only poison in e-cigs is nicotine, which makes e-cigs an addictive version of coffee.
The problem with e-cigs is that you can puff them all day long... and you pretty much have to if you're using them as a substitute for real cigarettes.
serious question, Do you think some races are not as sharp as others? Not trying to out you as a racist or anything.Quote: ScanThis is based on my observations.... It is my opinion only.
It is my belief that in 2014 people that still smoke or take up smoking are not as smart as non-smokers.
I mean they either have less formal education or they are just not as sharp as non-smokers.
I would wager that there is also a similar financial correlation
Anyone agree? Disagree?.
The reason I ask is there might be a correlation. I would guess low income African Americans smoke at a higher rate. I would think low income African Americans graduate at a lower rate. Demographics might be key.Quote: AxelWolfserious question, Do you think some races are not as sharp as others? Not trying to out you as a racist or anything.
I bet if you took 100 well off black kids and 100 well off white kids who test smarter. The "smarter" White kids will smoke at a higher rate.
Most people who smoke begin as teenagers, so you're probably encountering the exception.Quote: AZDuffmanAnyone born since about 1970 should know how bad it is. I have asked several who started. Always, and I mean A-L-W-A-Y-S, when I ask, the story starts the same way:
"Well, at first I only smoked when I was drinking and then............................."
No argument that smoking is a lower socioeconomic thing, but I have worked with and known a few smart ones.
Quote: AcesAndEightsQuote: socksIt's not quite the same thing, but I have recently started experimenting with vaping/nicotine as a mental performance enhancer. There's a lot of research here that get's aggressively overlooked by the media. I've been using it about once a week for a few months, and it's a mixed bag, but it definitely has a place my noot arsenal.
What the hell is a noot arsenal?
As in nootropics, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootropic.
I'm also a big fan of L-Theanine (when mixed w/caffeine); CILTEP, which is a stack founded on Forskolin and Artichoke extract, and often contains various other things such as ALCAR; Fish oil; and a good multi-mineral in the evening (in part for the Mg, which is calming and helps prevent adaptation to stimulants).
Notably, piracetam does nothing for me.
but have no will power. They're embarrassed by
the smoking, and will say they are. They talk
about quitting all the time. But I know people who
are addicted to sugar and talk the same way.
Addiction has more to do with the person than
the substance.
If you offered a million dollars to smokers if they
quit for two years, most would do it easily. What
does this tell us about their priorities.
Quote: djatcBTW do any smokers start because they like the taste/sensation, or is it all because of peer pressure or to look cool?
Smoking was very cool when I smoked in the 60's
and 70's. We were bombarded with the Marlboro
Man on TV and billboards. My parents smoked,
everybody smoked. So I stole cigs from them and
smoked too. Made me feel like a grownup at 14.
Quote: aceofspadesHmmm everytime I am in Vegas and head into the Caesars Palace High Limit room - the entirety of players at the baccarat tables are all smoking and playing huge money (so, not sure how that "financial" angle works on that)
We Asians get a cigarette subsidy from the almighty Buddha.
Quote: hwccdealerI've heard he quit, but I've also heard he switched to e-cigarettes. As far as I know, the only poison in e-cigs is nicotine, which makes e-cigs an addictive version of coffee.
Much of the addictiveness, at least for many people, is due to the MAO inhibitor in tobacco, and not to the nicotine itself. I've had no problem using nicotine once a week (less really), and without cravings. Given that there are benefits to nicotine, I'd call it a drug, not a poison.
edit: one 23 year old abstract discussing a range of benefits: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1859921
and another, more recent one concerning mental benefits: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20414766
Quote: djatcBTW do any smokers start because they like the taste/sensation, or is it all because of peer pressure or to look cool?
I think its a combination of factors. Look cool, and look older as a teen smoker.
Growing up, it seemed kids that had parents that smoked, also tended to pick up the habit. Kids that had parents that did not smoke tended not to smoke.
Cigars do not taste good (that's in your head) they do not make anyone's life enjoyable, other then the people that sell them.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI smoke cigars because they taste good and I enjoy them. I'm not sure if they will kill me or not (probably not) but as far as I'm concerned, the point of life is to enjoy it as much as possible, not to drag it out as long as possible. There are probably lots of things that I can do that will make my life less enjoyable and longer -- I have no interest in that.
Quote: AxelWolfCigars do not taste good (that's in your head)
Well I'm pretty sure that nothing objectively tastes good -- it's all subjective. I've always liked them though.
Quote:they do not make anyone's life enjoyable, other then the people that sell them.
I certainly enjoy them.
I think it might be replacing something you want in your mouth, that's why you enjoy them so much. I cant argue with that.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWell I'm pretty sure that nothing objectively tastes good -- it's all subjective. I've always liked them though.
I certainly enjoy them.
Quote: djatcI don't know anyone who liked a cigar the first time they tried it, myself included. Even the flavored ones. Although I did really like a particular brand of cigarettes my mom got from Japan which got me hooked a few years ago. They are outlawed here in the US because they are chocolate flavored. I think she sent me these because she's on my life insurance :(
I am a cigar smoker. And yes, there are many fine flavors. My current favorite is a Romeo y Julieta Reserve Maduro. Excellent.
I have plenty of them Ill sell them to you for half price. I got Cohiba and sun grown wellQuote: VCUSkyhawkI am a cigar smoker. And yes, there are many fine flavors. My current favorite is a Romeo y Julieta Reserve Maduro. Excellent.
Yet you don't smoke cigars and you think that. Backfire!Quote: AxelWolfI think it might be replacing something you want in your mouth, that's why you enjoy them so much. I cant argue with that.
I never said I don't or haven't smoked them, I just don't like them.Quote: onenickelmiracleYet you don't smoke cigars and you think that. Backfire!
Quote: djatcI don't know anyone who liked a cigar the first time they tried it, myself included. Even the flavored ones. Although I did really like a particular brand of cigarettes my mom got from Japan which got me hooked a few years ago. They are outlawed here in the US because they are chocolate flavored. I think she sent me these because she's on my life insurance :(
I definitely liked cigars the first time I tried them. I started with milder ones though. I only started to appreciate the more full-flavored ones recently.
Cigarettes are kind of gross -- I've never liked them. If I am really drunk and don't have any cigars I will smoke a cigarette, but I smoke it like a cigar (don't inhale). This happens maybe once or twice a year.
Quote: AxelWolfI have plenty of them Ill sell them to you for half price. I got Cohiba and sun grown well
lol how long have you had those for? Once they dry out you can throw them away. Re-humidifying them is a pain in the ass and doesn't work that well -- they never taste the same.
Djatc thinks them small flavored cigarettes and cloves are cigars just because they say that on the package.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI definitely liked cigars the first time I tried them. I started with milder ones though. I only started to appreciate the more full-flavored ones recently.
Cigarettes are kind of gross -- I've never liked them. If I am really drunk and don't have any cigars I will smoke a cigarette, but I smoke it like a cigar (don't inhale). This happens maybe once or twice a year.
Don't worry I keep them in the freezer under the fish.Quote: AxiomOfChoicelol how long have you had those for? Once they dry out you can throw them away. Re-humidifying them is a pain in the ass and doesn't work that well -- they never taste the same.
Quote: VCUSkyhawkI am a cigar smoker. And yes, there are many fine flavors. My current favorite is a Romeo y Julieta Reserve Maduro. Excellent.
I've never had a dominican R&J that I've liked (although the cuban ones are quite good). I've never tried the maduro though (and I love maduros) so I will give it a try.
My absolute favorite is the Padron 1926 80th anniv. maduro. It's on the pricy side (to put it mildly) but totally worth it.
Kool.
Quote: Ahigh
Is-proof-smoking-lowers-IQ-Study-suggests-20-day-drastically-reduces-mental-capacity
This is the problem with science reporting. It's often sensationalized, and far more subject to public trendiness than the science itself.
In the middle of the article, you see, "Dr. Mark Weiser, who led the research, said it is unclear whether smoking causes IQ levels to drop or whether less intelligent people are simply more inclined to smoke."
It'd be more interesting if they gave the IQ difference of the brothers studied and whether that difference was greater than or less than brothers who both either smoked or didn't smoke. As well as how the brother sample was chosen. I guess I'm still not sure how you get causation out of that. I think you still need a mechanism to be convincing.
But I remember back in my college days, being something of a night owl, I used to sit outside with the smokers just because they were there. I guess that's how people start. It's my understanding David Mitchell (Victoria Coren's husband - we've all seen that video) took up smoking because he got sick of being the one left inside while everyone else went out to have a smoke.
I also used to wonder how people got started on heroin, until I realized how prevalent painkiller abuse was, and how little difference (other than the terrifyingly low lethal/active ratio) there really is between heroin and oxy/vikes/morphine.
Quote: onenickelmiracleMost people who smoke begin as teenagers, so you're probably encountering the exception.
I don't know that this is as true as it was pre-2000. That is when the price squeeze really started to hit, making the price-sensitive teen think twice.
Quote: djatcBTW do any smokers start because they like the taste/sensation, or is it all because of peer pressure or to look cool?
When I started, one of the parts that kept me coming back was the feel of the cigarette paper between my fingers. The brand I enjoyed at the time* had particularly high quality, silky smooth paper.
At work, I have to stop what I'm doing and go outside for a smoke. I find that useful to clear one's mind. Many coworkers wouldn't understand if I just said "I need to go outside for 10 minutes", but people tend to be more understanding about getting a nicotine fix.
I was off it for a goodly while, but then an attractive acquaintance suggested we go outside to share a cigarette and talk. It wasn't about looking cool, it was about escaping the rest of the situation together and sharing an experience.
Nowadays, I usually only want nicotine when I'm working or gambling.
*Discontinued brand. :(
Quote: socksQuote: AcesAndEightsQuote: socksIt's not quite the same thing, but I have recently started experimenting with vaping/nicotine as a mental performance enhancer. There's a lot of research here that get's aggressively overlooked by the media. I've been using it about once a week for a few months, and it's a mixed bag, but it definitely has a place my noot arsenal.
What the hell is a noot arsenal?
As in nootropics, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootropic.
I'm also a big fan of L-Theanine (when mixed w/caffeine); CILTEP, which is a stack founded on Forskolin and Artichoke extract, and often contains various other things such as ALCAR; Fish oil; and a good multi-mineral in the evening (in part for the Mg, which is calming and helps prevent adaptation to stimulants).
Notably, piracetam does nothing for me.
Wow man. Better living through chemistry, I guess.
Quote: IbeatyouracesObama smokes, or did smoke. Case closed!
Almost Every President in History with the exception of Teddy Roosevelt (he was forced to try it by his dad and hated it and never smoked again) smoked or used some sort of tobacco product (dip, snuff, chew, etc...) at some stage of their life, many while they were still president ....
Obama, Bush, Clinton, Old Bush, Reagan, carter all smoked or used other tobacco, and before that smoking was pretty normal and most people did so it was not surprising that most did.
I'm not an Obama fan by any stretch of the imagintation, but that is a silly reason to bash him.
Quote: GandlerAlmost Every President in History with the exception of Teddy Roosevelt (he was forced to try it by his dad and hated it and never smoked again) smoked or used some sort of tobacco product (dip, snuff, chew, etc...) at some stage of their life, many while they were still president ....
Obama, Bush, Clinton, Old Bush, Reagan, carter all smoked or used other tobacco, and before that smoking was pretty normal and most people did so it was not surprising that most did.
I'm not an Obama fan by any stretch of the imagintation, but that is a silly reason to bash him.
The funny part is that this hypocrite clown promised he wouldn't raise taxes on anyone under $250,000 and literally days into his regime he doubled the cigarette tax on his fellow smokers.
Quote: bobsimsThe funny part is that this hypocrite clown promised he wouldn't raise taxes on anyone under $250,000 and literally days into his regime he doubled the cigarette tax on his fellow smokers.
Yes, smokers subsidize the goverment in many ways. The Federal Government (as well as many states that impose large tobacco taxes) would lose a lot of income if anybody quit smoking overnight. It would be a bigger problem for some states that depend on tobacco tax as a large revenue, because they can't print money and often have to actually balance the budget.
Quote: GandlerYes, smokers subsidize the goverment in many ways. The Federal Government (as well as many states that impose large tobacco taxes) would lose a lot of income if anybody quit smoking overnight. It would be a bigger problem for some states that depend on tobacco tax as a large revenue, because they can't print money and often have to actually balance the budget.
The Feds make far more from smokes than anyone else in the chain of production. Hypocrites. They RICO quite a bit off illegal drug kingpins also, same thing just more indirect process.
I don't smoke at all. I don't drink either. And I generally don't judge people who do.
But I can't breathe around cigarette smoke and especially not around cigar smoke.
It's just been the last couple of weeks that I have been extremely irritated by smokers blowing smoke in my face.
If tobacco were outlawed and marijuana was made 100% legal where tobacco was currently legal, I would prefer that as a non-smoker.
At least marijuana doesn't smell so horrible as tobacco does.
